  Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 588 Registered: 02-2004 |
Kilpatrick's pool costs city $200K Ailing rec department pays for Manoogian fix-ups Manoogian Mansion Since fiscal 1994-95, $1.3 million in tax dollars has been spent for repairs on the property. The city plans to spend another $200,000 for landscaping improvements. Since taking office, Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick has tapped his office account to pay for several upgrades at Manoogian. They include $4,900 for decorations in 2004, which included $2,800 in ornaments, $300 in trees, a $200 wreath; $1,000 to set up and deliver the decorations; $4,600 for a custom fountain; as much as $1,000 per month to hire individuals and a private service to clean the mansion; and as much as $600 per month for water bills. (The mansion has an in-ground sprinkler system and a swimming pool.) The Manoogian Mansion Restoration Society, a nonprofit founded in 1994, helps pay for the home's upkeep. From 2000 through 2004, the last year for which information is available, the group has received gifts, grants and contributions totaling $709,041, with $707,541 being raised since Kilpatrick took office. Sources: IRS, city of Detroit records The Story DETROIT -- Even as the city was shuttering 30 percent of its recreation centers and city pools due to a lack of funds, the mayor's staff got $200,000 from the Recreation Department to repair the pool, exterior walkways and outside lighting at the Manoogian Mansion, his official, city-owned residence. Construction, which will include replacing long-damaged tiles in the mansion's swimming pool, should start soon, said Matt Allen, a spokesman for Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Although the nonprofit Manoogian Mansion Restoration Society was formed in 1994 "to restore, repair, furnish and preserve the official residence of the city of Detroit's mayor," according to Internal Revenue Service records, Allen said that group's focus -- it had some $300,000 on hand at the end of 2005 -- is on interior, decorative items and not long-term improvements. The decision to move ahead with the repairs irks some parents who have struggled to find places for their children to play. Marie Rivers' three teenagers used to walk three blocks from their apartment to the Considine Recreation Center on Woodward and Taylor to swim and play basketball, but the center closed early this year as part of Kilpatrick's plan to save money. This summer, her kids had to ride their bikes three miles each way to visit the Palmer Park pool. "That's just too far," said Rivers. "I know the city has to cut back, but if we have to cut back in the neighborhoods, the mayor should cut back, too." Allen said although the funding was approved in mid-June, work couldn't begin sooner because official functions at the mansion -- such as a luncheon to honor senior citizens and receptions for visiting dignitaries -- made that impossible over the warmer summer months. The mansion is a city asset that must be maintained, he said. Some of the repairs are necessary, he said, to prevent accidents to guests at the mayor's home, which is along the Detroit River and includes a boat well and cabana. "We are self-insured, and any safety concerns have to be corrected," Allen said. The primary repairs, according to what Elizabeth Benson, director of the Detroit Building Authority, told the authority commissioners in June, are to demolish and replace cracked pavement outside the home, fix the front porch, replace dead plants and correct outdoor lighting problems. Detailed cost estimates weren't available. The mayor's staff requested the repairs. "The current condition is not safe for guest(s) or the first family," Benson wrote authority commissioners in requesting the funding. City Councilwoman Sheila Cockrel said there is nothing wrong with city money being used to care for the building. "There's never been frivolous spending there," she said. She echoed Allen's concerns that safety is a priority at a facility that is frequented by the public and official visitors. "It's not going to be a good story for Detroit if a dignitary falls on a broken step and breaks a foot," Cockrel said. Bond issue funding repairs The money for repairs at the mayor's residence is coming from a bond issue voters approved for capital improvement projects in 2004. Kilpatrick, in encouraging voters to approve borrowing the money, said it would be used to improve city parks. The $22 million bond issue, according to the ballot language, was "for the purpose of paying the cost of acquisition, construction, renovation or rehabilitation of recreation, zoo or cultural facilities." A person with a house worth $100,000 is paying about $8.22 a year in taxes for the bond issue. Money from the bond sale also went to improvements at several city parks, such as installing a remote-control car racing track, climbing wall and disc golf course at the city's Jayne/Lasky Family Fun Center. In January, the Kilpatrick administration announced plans to close nine of its 30 recreation centers and hours were reduced at others. As the mayor has tried to "right size" the city of Detroit, hundreds of Recreation Department workers have either been let go or have had their jobs eliminated. Allen said it was unfair to relate the closing of the recreation centers with repairs at the mansion because the landscaping projects are being made with capital improvement funds and not the money used for day-to-day operations, which was what had been eliminated in the city budget. To put it in perspective, Allen said it costs the city about $2.5 million a year to operate a recreation center pool 260 days a year. The cost of the landscape improvements at the Manoogian is equal to running a public pool for 19 days, he said. Maintenance is a challenge The executive mansion, in the upscale Berry subdivision on Detroit's east side, was donated to the city in 1966 by Masco Corp. founder Alex Manoogian and his wife. Maintaining the historic home has been a challenge for the city. Since fiscal 1994-95 the city has spent $1.3 million on the house, according to city figures. Kilpatrick has opted not to replace the old drafty windows in the mansion, some of which are still covered in plastic, because of the cost. The mayor delayed moving his family into the 5,000-square-foot home on Dwight Street for almost a year after taking office to allow for $280,000 in renovations to be completed. That process included auctioning off chandeliers, a banquet dining table with 18 chairs, traditional living room furniture and other accessories. The proceeds were turned over to the Manoogian Mansion Restoration Society, a nonprofit formed in 1994 to help maintain the building. Allen explained the nonprofit does not appropriate money for capital improvements since the house is a city asset. Its money goes to decorations and other interior accessories. In addition, taxpayer money appropriated to the mayor's office account has been used to beautify the home, such as $4,900 for holiday decorations, $300 in Christmas trees and a $4,600 fountain. Still, in 2002, primarily from the auction, the Manoogian Society raised $682,711. At the end of 2005, according to documents filed with the IRS, the Manoogian Society had a balance of $308,000. Some of the coming repairs, such as replacing the tile around the pool, are to things that have been problems since the Archer administration, Allen said. The broken tiles cause water to leak from the pool into the surrounding grass and dirt. Board approved work Although the City Council also had to approve the landscaping repairs, the project got the first stamp of approval from the four authority board members, who are Kilpatrick's chief of staff, Christine Beatty; Derrick Miller, the mayor's chief information officer; the Rev. Wendell Anthony, president of the Detroit NAACP; and Carl Collins, a Detroit real estate appraiser. The only commissioner to raise questions about the deal, according to minutes of the June 15 meeting, was Anthony. Anthony wanted to know who had paid for past repairs. Beatty explained funding has alternated between appropriations for the mayor's office and the Recreation Department. She added Kilpatrick has spent less on the home than his predecessors. Hamilton Anderson, the company hired to oversee the landscaping, received a no-bid deal for $6,500. Co-owner Rainy Hamilton is a major Kilpatrick financial backer. Source: Detroit News | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 284 Registered: 05-2005 |
OMG! I just cant believe the people of Detroit voted him in for a 2nd term....ya'll deserve the screwing he is giving you, bend over! | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3723 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'll do it for $2,000. Although there may be some cost overruns | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1989 Registered: 10-2003 |
As long as you get the lowest bid, that's all that matters with government contracting! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6789 Registered: 12-2003 |
Playing football either in high school or college with the head Head seems to help... | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 98 Registered: 06-2006 |
Government contracts should go to the lowest or best bid (sometimes companies will seriously underbid to get a job but you get what you pay for). Unfortunately, in this case: "Hamilton Anderson, the company hired to oversee the landscaping, received a no-bid deal for $6,500. Co-owner Rainy Hamilton is a major Kilpatrick financial backer." | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1992 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mtm, I was refering to Jams' comment above mine about "cost overruns". It's common practice for companies to knowingly underbid their competition in government contract work and then by the end of the project end up with a contract far greater than any of the competing bids due to "unexpected cost overruns". So many times no-bid and bid contracts are just a shell game. $6,500 is a pretty good deal for quality landscaping work on that scale for a year. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6792 Registered: 12-2003 |
Big assumption on that 'quality' qualifier, Bvos. What do they say happens when you assume?! Heh. (edited to make the joke work) (Message edited by Gannon on September 18, 2006) | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 589 Registered: 11-2003 |
The Hamilton Anderson contract for $6,500 is a bargain for a $200K job. But apparently the DBA didn't give up detailed cost estimates so it's difficult to know what is being done for $200K. They mention pool repairs, front porch repairs, landscaping and concrete work. The driveway areas at the Manoogian seem relatively new, so it doesn't seem like they are being replaced. They must be referring to the pool area. No repairs to a home like this are cheap, but $200K for what was listed seems pretty high for what seems to amount fixing the front steps and getting the pool in order. To put this number in context, there have been gut-rehabs in Indian Village in the past decade that haven't spent a whole lot more than $200K. If this house was in private hands, this repair would be a lot less. The taxpayer premium has definitely been applied to the bids. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 99 Registered: 06-2006 |
Bvos, Some gov. contracts, particularly for maintenance/facilities type work, are "Firm, Fixed-Fee" where the contractor CANNOT come back asking for overruns - or, if they do, almost no chance in them getting it. That's where we often see the outrageously low bids and that's why we have the option of going with a higher bidder if the low-ball is too low. Lowest bidders will usually cut corners or not even finish the work. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1155 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have to respectfully disagree with you Mtm, firm fixed-price contracts are not typically bid for maintenance work. You see a lot more firm-fixed price contracts for one-time purchases of supplies (like cars) or for other supplies for DPW, DWSD where the bidder can give a fixed cost on a product for the period of the contract. But it really doesn't matter, because if the contractor ends up having to go above and beyond the scope of services or there is a cost overrun, you can just get an extension of time with additional money. I just want to know which vendors are doing the other $193,500 of work. | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1612 Registered: 04-2005 |
Is Bobby Ferguson still on work release? | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10615 Registered: 10-2003 |
Look at all you playa hatas! Everybody wants the cool/hip/rap star mayor, yet nobody wants to pony up the duckets to maintain the mayor's bling. You can't have it both ways people! LMAO Question: If in fact the pool and mansion is in need of these repairs, what do you propose we do, not fix them? Then eveybody will bitch and complain 10 years down the road about the city wanting to tear it down because it would cost too much to restore and maintain. Damned if you do, damned if you don't in this town. | ||
Oliverdouglas Member Username: Oliverdouglas Post Number: 57 Registered: 02-2006 |
I donj't want a cool/hip/rapstar mayor. But I do want city assets maintained. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 101 Registered: 06-2006 |
Susanarosa, I've written and awarded several government facilities-type contracts that were Firm, Fixed-Fee (FFF). One of my very first was for wiring a facility with Cat3 wiring (quite a bit ago). We had very precise specs. for the work and had all the bidders come through for a question and answer walk-though so they all had the same information at the same time. Winning low bidder later came back asking for additional $$ for wall plates (that were in the original specs.). Contactor was just told "Sorry Jack, You bid to specs. and specs. included the plates. No more $$." | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1995 Registered: 10-2003 |
I say they film rap videos at the Manoogian pool to pay for the maintenance and upkeep. That way we'll help KK with his hip-hop creds (and party cred) while also helping pay for the mansion. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1158 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mtm, how admirable. Maybe the CoD can learn a little something from whichever governmental unit you have experience with since your experience seems to be the exception, not the norm. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 102 Registered: 06-2006 |
Susanarosa, Not all areas of gov. contracting are equal but we have to follow VERY stringent rules, ethics, etc. I'm not saying that all of us who deal with contracts and purchasing strictly follow every rule but personally, I've, found it far better and safer to do so, particularly when dealing with taxpayer funding. Its a pity that politicians in all branches don't have to follow the same rules we do. Believe me, when I hear about various city and county councils/boards having on-going (and usually unsuccessful) discussions about even HAVING ethical standards it makes me cringe. | ||
Caseyc Member Username: Caseyc Post Number: 630 Registered: 11-2003 |
Curiously enough, Archer had work done on the pool 6 years ago.....see excerpt below-- _____________________ POOL PARTY POLITICS In one of the more amusing stories making the rounds of City Hall these days, Mayor Dennis Archer, in the name of preserving one of our fair city's "crown jewels," plowed an estimated $60,000 of city funds into repairing the swimming pool and hot tub on the grounds of his east-side residence, the historic (and apparently swinger-friendly) Manoogian Mansion. Aside from the peculiar notion that a pool and hot tub built in the late '70s can somehow be elevated to "crown jewel" status, various City Council members have objected to the pool-polishing, calling it a questionable use of city funds. The Archer crew defended the expenditure, pointing out that the funds had originally been slated for an aide/secretarial post that went unfilled. Such a defense obviously comes from the "Hey-I-could-have-given-this-j ob-to-a-second-cousin-or-longt ime-crony-but-instead-I-redid- my-pool-and-therefore-I'm-a-gr eat-guy" school of disingenuous logic. ................... ____________________ I find it amazing that, for starters, the Kwamester and "Carlita's Way" had to "make do" with a mere $280K renovation before even moving into the place...and even now....sob....they still have plastic on those darned drafty windows. Oh boo hoo....but before we shed too many tears, one might want to recognize that $280K can get you pretty far in a renovation....and it its not like the place was falling apart. Dennis and Judge Trudy Archer aren't exactly possessing of lowbrow and bargain-basement sensitivities, and pouring 280K into the place after they departed always struck me as a bit excessive...regardless of the interior decorator bills. Moreover, it's amazing that a total of, what?, $1.3 million has been poured into the joint since 1995 and they still have the pool crumbling and plastic on the windows? Sounds like a bloated contractor is making a killing somewhere.....who is on the board of the Manoogian mansion non-profit? Time for an audit. | ||
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d Post Number: 38 Registered: 08-2006 |
Seriously, Detroit has had crooks and thugs in charge of the city for the past 25-30 years. Look at what the city's like now. It's not only about Kwame, but all the dirty bastards that preceded him too. Each council member thinking Detroit is his own hood and that taxpayer's money can be spent irrationaly. How insulting. I think the solution to the city's revival is a responsible mayor, a strong city council that cares about the city. A city council strong and united instead of opportunists, dirty thugs and selfish spenders. Boo to Detroit's political class... Really, time for a biiig change is due. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6804 Registered: 12-2003 |
If it weren't for all that pounding during the Young administration, then, the pool would probably be in better shape. I see where all you Y-T's are taking this... | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 7 Registered: 09-2006 |
It blows my mind that the mayor even has an official residence. Sell the Manoogian and make the Kilpatricks live in their own house like a normal mayoral family. I realize Kwame (and his predecessors) can come up with a fistful of justifications for why an official residence is warranted. But none holds water -- mayors of thriving cities all across the country make due without one. The Manoogian just enhances the Kilpatricks' sense of entitlement, much like the severely bloated executive protection unit does. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6807 Registered: 12-2003 |
Apparently, then, the pool is a metaphor for the justifications...is that what I hear you saying?! | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1969 Registered: 12-2004 |
Just out of curiousity, how many police officers can you hire with $200K? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6808 Registered: 12-2003 |
I think it is roughly one and a half for the executive protection unit. But it's a big half... | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 810 Registered: 01-2005 |
The City of Detroit is in no shape to maintain a Mayorial Mansion. This thing is nothing but an ego trip for Kwame and his predicessors. I think Roman Gribbs was the first to have access to the house, but he didn't live in it; he maintained his home in North Rosedale instead. Get rid of this white elephant. Ah, damn, I just turned it into a racial thing again, didn't I?  | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2006 |
Gannon: "Apparently, then, the pool is a metaphor for the justifications...is that what I hear you saying?!" It's about perception. Yeah, the pool is a symbol (an expensive one). In such a poverty-stricken city, there's a "let them eat cake" vibe about the mayor's family living in a city-provided mansion and being protected/escorted around by such a large police contingent. The mayor has a tough job, one I wouldn't want. Maybe all mayors should get a mansion and an EPU staffed to Detroit standards. But the fact is they don't. And most mayors are presiding over cities doing much better than Detroit. I would like to see the Manoogian added to the list of city assets up for sale. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1324 Registered: 10-2005 |
the million or so the city would get from the sale of the mansion, and they few hundred thousand they would save in upkeep wouldnt be much in the long run. As it is right now, it is a symbol of the great city, and is often used for city events, fundraisers, dignitaries, etc. The Manoogian Mansion is a great spot for these types of affairs. Obviously, the city should not be pouring money into the building, but the non profit that contributes to the upkeep, combined with a little bit of city money for the events, should be enough. The Mayor and his family get to live there free of charge, make Kwame pay for christmas decorations and lawn cutting, or he can cut it himself. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6817 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ftd, I was punning off your 'doesn't hold water' statement, but you nailed it with the juxtaposition. I liked how the news reports on NPR, out of WDET, contained the specifics about how many city parks were affected by the cuts as a lead-in to the story! We could lease the Manoogian out, I hear you can throw GREAT parties there. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1187 Registered: 04-2005 |
In 1967 the city was renovating the Manoogian as a residence. The cost for the wiring was $60,000 and council president Ed Carry asked Mayor Cavanagh if the wire was made of gold. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4066 Registered: 09-2005 |
5,000 sq ft is hardly a "mansion" by Detroit, GP or BH standards. Detroit has lofty goals for the future and has voted in this mayor. He should have a home fitting for the city Detroit is, or hopes to be. Dignitaries will be entertained there (and should be) and the place should be on a par with other large cities. The costs over the past 10 years do not seem excessive for an "executive mansion" and especially for a "crown jewel" that Detroit has too few of. Bite the bullet, Detroit - but let the mayor know that the citizens have very high expectations for return on dollars invested in his (public) housing. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3732 Registered: 10-2003 |
What other cities beside New York offer a mayor an official residence? | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 314 Registered: 12-2005 |
Kwame sucks. | ||
K_solomon Member Username: K_solomon Post Number: 41 Registered: 07-2006 |
The only other major city that has an official mayor residence beside New York and Detroit, is L.A. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4073 Registered: 09-2005 |
Unlike NY and LA, Detroit has plenty of cheap real estate. Keep Manoogian and maintain it. Assuming Detroit succeeds and once again is a city with more wealth than either NY or LA (it has happened twice in past history) it will have a valuable asset worthy of any major, historical and successful city. Despite the dire financial situation in the D, keep your eyes on the goal. For reference, the Fisher mansion that burned in Palmer Woods was on the market for $54,000 in the late 60's or early 70's. It sat empty for quite awhile, partially because of the declining neighborhood, its size, and the "high" taxes ($14,000 at the time) Too bad someone didn't snatch that up for the mayor! Another crown jewel gone - when built was the largest and most expensive house in Detroit. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2995 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with Karl on this one. The property should be maintained. One might argue with the amount but without the knowing the extent of the repairs needed it is a moot argument. Pools are notorious money pits. Standing aside from the emotions and political persuasions, the financial benefits and perks of being Mayor of Detroit, de facto CEO of a $3.7 billion revenue corporation, are far below par for a similar sized private corporations. As Karl notes, the real measure should be in the expectations and, unlike private corporations, the full public can fire the boss if they don't like his job. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2005 |
I think he should have "Taxpayer Day" at the pool. Whoever pays over $5,000 in property taxes gets to come over and swim. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2813 Registered: 08-2004 |
I don't know the deed restrictions to the Manoogian Mansion, but I bet that trying to sell it outright would probably pose similar problems as trying to sell Rackham Golf Course. And to throw in another caveat, they took a small part of a city park to make the Manoogian property larger. So that adds another layer to the quagmire of trying to sell it. I agree with Lowell and Karl. Keep it. But there should be open bidding for contracts to fix it. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4076 Registered: 09-2005 |
Whoever is raising the private funds deserves a pat on the back - nothing works better on a property like this than to have private funds, supervised by a board of cranky old men & women watching over the pursestrings - but more importantly, the condition of the place and planning for future upgrades, making sure they are done correctly and for the right price. And Diehard gets a star for the best idea of the day! Hear here! | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 50 Registered: 05-2004 |
It's nice to see the mayor has champagne tastes while everyone else has to make do on a beer budget. Taxpayers really admire their beloved(?)leaders living high on the hog as they scrounge out a living. Bet those Parks and Rec. people are really happy. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4077 Registered: 09-2005 |
Potential investors/business leaders considering Detroit will not be taken to meet the Parks & Rec folks - or to the park, for that matter. They will be taken to Manoogian. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3601 Registered: 10-2003 |
Speaking of that Fisher Mansion (William Fisher), I doubt it was lived in very much after the early 1970's. Shit, just imagine the cost of upkeep. By the time it burned it was in bad shape...pix??? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2816 Registered: 08-2004 |
OK, now I'm confused... there were 7 Fisher brothers... The Fisher house that burned down wasn't the largest house in Detroit, was it? I thought that the Fisher mansion in Palmer Woods that was the former Detroit Catholic Archbishops residence (and later basketball's John Salley residence) was and is the largest house in Detroit... and it's still there. So we're talking about another one of the other Fisher brothers, correct? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4078 Registered: 09-2005 |
Yup - sorry Gistok, I don't have time to hunt down the articles on it now, but it was quite a place. I believe the Archbishop's place was built after 2 of the Fisher bro's built their homes right around the corner. One of the homes went thru a series of owners, and finally burned in an unfortunate fire, and finally was demolished. At the time it was built, it was the most expensive and largest home - but later was surpassed when its owners built the reeeeealy big one for the Arch. Perhaps someone with access to the old News/Freep articles on that fire (and the home before it burned) could post them here. Was in there once, and it was pretty spectacular. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 204 Registered: 04-2006 |
Kilpatrick has a real good trick, it's called DARTA. It works like this. Step one. Eliminate $80 Million per year from the Detroit debt. Step two. Eliminate $60 Million per year from the state to match federal transit funds to pay for new buses and light rail and big freeways. Step three. Raise a one percent county SALES tax which will raise $300 Million per year for transit and the same for the big freeways, so we can move more and bigger trucks and build more big homes and new Wal-Marts on more farmlands, orchards and forests. Step four. MORE MICHIGAN JOBS. forget the big three of GM, FORD, CHRYSLER. We now can have another NEW big three, DARTA, SMART and DDOT. Step five. Let's all go for a swim in Uncle Kwame's pool and a sunday ride in his red lincoln. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1336 Registered: 10-2005 |
i thought you were gone. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 12 Registered: 09-2006 |
lol, I was just wondering where the link to his site is. And what year did the Fisher Manor catch on fire? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3603 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think it burned in 1994. That one is the elusive Wiulliam Fisher residence. I have only seen one pic of it. It had this mammoth entry-way facade. Beautiful! It couldnt be replicated today. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4086 Registered: 09-2005 |
The house was loaded with leaded & stained glass, fireplaces from castles across Europe, 2 pipe organs (one was a player pipe organ) the original lambswool carpeting that cost $80/yd in 1922, and unsurpassed workmanship/detail in every room. There was no finer home in Detroit, though the Archbishop's house was larger. A tragic loss for the city. | ||
Caseyc Member Username: Caseyc Post Number: 636 Registered: 11-2003 |
People seem to think that mayors are only able to entertain "potential investors and business leaders" at their grand mayoral residences. Let's be real....this isn't the White House, and these are not state dinners. Detroit has an abundance of grand and impressive venues and restaurants at which the mayor can and should entertain. There is a Nero fiddling imagery here when you truck a group of visiting dignitaries through a decaying city and arrive at, tah dah, a glistening and costly mayoral manse and entertaining pad. The Manoogian has required an average of $136,000 in upkeep PER YEAR over the past 10 years (and I suspect that number is understated, but hey, who's checking?). That is just the money spent from tax dollars in city coffers....Is this really a luxury that the City can afford? Keep in mind that the non-profit preservation society is just for "interior decor" and updates, and NOT long term capital improvements. Since Kwamester took office, that group raised over 700K...and at the end of 2005 had a balance in the account of some 300K...allof it spent on interior decor and interior improvements and not on any capital improvements. Add to that the 1.3 million of tax dollars spent over the past 10 years and it sounds like a rather extravagant white elephant that a city on the fiscal brink cannot afford. There are alternatives for entertaining....and one of the most telling factors is when you compare with comparable city mayors. Once again, not unlike his bloated security detail, King Kwame fails the test. Finally, I would urge someone to dig deeper into the expenditures...what they were for and who spent them, as well as the management of the non-profit. Something doesn't smell right. I repeat my earlier post.....time for an audit. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 591 Registered: 11-2003 |
The William Fisher mansion was being renovated by an automobile dealer when it burned almost to the ground. I believe that it was one of those construction fires where floors were being refinished and portable heat was being used while finishes dried. Apparently, one of the heating units malfunctioned. I have to believe that a negligence lawsuit or insurance litigation resulted from this tragedy. Anybody have any info? As for the Manoogian mansion issue, it wouldn't be a white elephant if the city could get its act together and only pay market prices for the repairs it commissions. A lot of work has been done on the house in the past 10 years, but it hasn't been worth anything close to $1.3 million. The major projects included HVAC, electrical service, roof and gutters, a completely new kitchen, and the installation of an entertainment/media room in the basement. Big projects, yes, but $1.3 million worth, no. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 6848 Registered: 12-2003 |
You give me the specifics of the entertainment and media room, and I'll let you know if they are reasonable and fair. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 264 Registered: 05-2006 |
The William Fisher Mansion was supposedly being renavated by Chevy dealer Charles Harrell when it burned around 1994. When he bought it, there was a feature article in the paper about how it was going to be his dream home. During renovations, a suspicious fire started from the propain tanks that were used to heat the inside. In the months that followed, further details came to light, such as Mr Harrell had the house insured for over a millon dollars when he only paid around $300,000 for it. He also retracted his earlier statement and insisted that he never planned to live there, only to take school children there to inspire them. The insurence co. was investigating it as a arson job. Never did hear what the result was, but he supposedly donated the land to some church. He acussed the insurence company of racism for investigating the fire. Shortly after, he sold his dealership back to Gm, and it closed thereafter. He subsiquently moved to Chicago. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4103 Registered: 09-2005 |
Detroitej72, insurance companies often insist that buildings be insured for at least 80% of replacement cost, so if true Harrell's policy was OK and perhaps still underinsured. I doubt the investigation had anything to do with race. Fires are routinely investigated by both city/state arson inspectors and insurance companies until a cause is found. Arson is not a reason to deny coverage - unless the arsonist is aso the insured. I attended a seminar on arson in Michigan some years ago, it was fascinating to see the methods used - as well as the reasons for setting something ablaze. Perps were often tripped up by one tiny little detail, perhaps like many crimes. Not sure the final outcome of the Fisher fire. Too bad the D didn't buy the place when it was for sale for $54K. Would have been a great addition to "The Auto Baron Tour" | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 267 Registered: 05-2006 |
Karl, I too had a class about arson and found facinating "the one detail" that caused the arsonist to get caught. I did not mean I thought the investigation was racist, Harrell was the clown who called it that. Finally, it would have been great if Detroit or some other group could have bought the house for The Auto Baron Tour. Detroitej72 | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4116 Registered: 09-2005 |
Detroitej72, I understood your post as you said -= that Harrell called it that, not you. I plan to do a bit more research about this lost gem, someday...... then I'll post it here. | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 292 Registered: 09-2005 |
Repairs to pool tiling, landscaping, a fountain when the windows are covered with plastic? Someone's priorities are messed up. Someone who lives in Detroit needs to say something to the City Council instead of just posting here. (Message edited by themax on September 23, 2006) | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2005 |
OMG! I just cant believe the people of Detroit voted him in for a 2nd term....ya'll deserve the screwing he is giving you, bend over! I'll do it for $2,000. You'll bend over and let Kwame screw you for $2K? Hell, you're cheap. We don't all deserve it. I didn't vote for him. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 271 Registered: 05-2006 |
Karl, I will wait anxiously for your posts. I was very angry at the time of the Fisher Mantion fire, another gem forever lost... Detroitej72 |
