  Detroitman Member Username: Detroitman Post Number: 1000 Registered: 06-2004 |
Stadium demolition delayed Plans to spruce up Corktown site, add condos and shops go slowly, Kilpatrick says. David Josar / The Detroit News http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060926/M ETRO/609260335 | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 195 Registered: 02-2006 |
Tear that schiitttt down! 313 | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 187 Registered: 03-2005 |
I'll bring the wreaking ball !!! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7951 Registered: 10-2003 |
I hope that isn't half of wreaking balls. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 975 Registered: 11-2004 |
Also in ModelD today: Fields of Dreams http://www.modeldmedia.com/fea tures/fields63.aspx | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2004 |
Why do I have the suspicion that when I'm passing through in 2008 I'll stop and pee at/on Tiger Stadium. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6930 Registered: 10-2003 |
Because you're gross? | ||
Mrfrench Member Username: Mrfrench Post Number: 25 Registered: 01-2006 |
or maybe because that's what some sports fan do.... they pee outside when they come to Detroit. " I gotta go.... team" | ||
Motownman Member Username: Motownman Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2006 |
What the hell are they waiting for. Just tear it down. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1991 Registered: 12-2004 |
Motownman: Do you have a few million dollars that you'd like to contribute to its demolition? | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 723 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ya know, it's only been a couple months since the city committed to the Corktown plan you nimwits. It takes time to do the necessary due diligence. Kwame said it best in todays paper when he referred to the project as a historic dismantling rather than a typical demolition. So get a life and do something with it. Your silly armchair quarterbacking is stale. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 65 Registered: 03-2006 |
Historic dismantling? What does that mean? I heard him on WJR with Paul W. whining that everybody is picking on me. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5019 Registered: 02-2004 |
You all have to wait until the demo crew engineers gets the go ahead to tear the studium where Ty Cobb built down. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1351 Registered: 11-2003 |
"Historic dismantling" basically means that they will be preserving some parts for historical purposes, in this case the baseball field and a small part of the stands. As opposed to a typical demolition where everything is destroyed. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3030 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dugouts too, right? The Corktowm plan is the most sensible short and long term plan. It will benefit the city with residents, character and history. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 977 Registered: 11-2004 |
That and some parts will be carefully removed to be sold at auction, say seats or doors or signs. I still think they should offer tours of the stadium, say $5 a person, just before it's torn down. That could bring in a sizable amount of cash to help with the project. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 66 Registered: 03-2006 |
I always thought the bullpens were so cool. I would have bought one of the old green seats, but not those awfull blue one's. A sign would really be great to have. I wonder how much of that type of thing has been removed already? | ||
Motownman Member Username: Motownman Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2006 |
Whats the point of demolition if there going to "dismantle" parts of the stadium and sell them??? | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 67 Registered: 03-2006 |
Its not a "demolition" its a "historic dismantling". | ||
Motownman Member Username: Motownman Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2006 |
Ok? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 172 Registered: 08-2006 |
Why tear down Tiger stadium? How is that a higher priority to the city? Maybe Detroit should work on demolishing the thousands of other abandoned buildings that it has rather than Tiger Stadium. If someone is going to call tearing it down progress it sure as hell isn't. I've heard that they would replace it with big box stores. Here's how it would go. Historic Tiger stadium demolished, big box store and acres of asphalt layed down, 6 months later store closes. One plus, Detroit get's a great new surface lot for no one to park at. If you're going to call the stadium an eyesore then you should probably look at some of the other "eyesores" that are scattered around Detroit. How about we tear down MCS or Lee Plaza. Tiger Stadium is in far better condition than either of those buildings. I actuality I love the Lee Plaza and the MCS and I don't want to see them demolished, I was just trying to make a point about why demolish a great old stadium. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 182 Registered: 01-2006 |
Milwaukee, come to Detroit before you start making claims like "...tearing it down progress it sure as hell isn't". Whether it is big box retail, or a mixed use retail/residential, anything will be better than the giant blob of nothing that is there right now. In regards to your remarks about MCS/Lee Plaza: Tiger Stadium can be resotred for just one use: sports. MCS and Lee Plaza both provide a few different uses. Also, the cost of demolition for MCS is rediculously high. It's built so solid that it would require brick by brick demolition (Statler style) to bring it down. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 128 Registered: 03-2006 |
Milwaukee- Have you been following this at all? It's not going to be big box. The field and some stands will be preserved, the main entrance will be something of a corktown welcome center, and mixed use retail and lofts will be built around it. As for why it should be demolished when the city has thousands of derelict houses, tearing it down will spur growth on the many empty lots used for parking. Finally, as far as not demolishing it because its a "great old stadium," what use can you think of for an 80 year old, 50,000 seat stadium with no team? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 173 Registered: 08-2006 |
I was in corktown just a few moths ago, and there was no shortage of other land filled with run-down or abandoned houses. I still don't see why to tear it down. Make it into a baseball museum, I think developers could reuse it somehow. Is there any proof that after the stadium is demolished that it will spur growth in corktown. Maybe tearing down MCS will spur growth in corktown, would you do that if you had some city report? | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 724 Registered: 10-2003 |
I hate to quote a newbie but Milwaukee..."have you been following this at all?". Do your homework before you open your mouth. Otherwise, shut up and listen. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. A lesson for the vast majority of this pathetic place in cyberspace. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2382 Registered: 10-2003 |
Histeric, shoot me an email or give me a call tomorrow (thursday) por favor. Your voicemail was full. Muchas gracias. | ||
Michael Member Username: Michael Post Number: 790 Registered: 10-2003 |
or write your article. We need more of those friends who see things differently and can bring things back from the brink of destruction. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 216 Registered: 04-2004 |
Although I think it would be cool to have tours prior demolition, E_h, I could only imagine the insurance costs... | ||
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck Post Number: 215 Registered: 01-2006 |
 | ||
Quickdrawmcgraw Member Username: Quickdrawmcgraw Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2005 |
We have to remember at least the city is working with the Corktown residents to see what works in their neighborhood. They want retail/mix-use to blend in with the existing neighborhoods. They want the former parking lot owners of old Tiger Stadium to infill the lots. At least its a start. I hope a sensible plan for MCD can come about. It's sad that we didn't have a train station in downtown rather than off the beaten path. | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 125 Registered: 07-2006 |
Are there any petitions to save Tiger Stadium? | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1059 Registered: 10-2003 |
No, but I'm sure you could go to some website and start one if it makes you feel good. | ||
Mani Member Username: Mani Post Number: 126 Registered: 07-2006 |
DRM, Why are you quoting my question and then responding with...your lousy response? The quality of intellectual communication is seriously lacking on this thread. Thanks to DRM! | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2197 Registered: 10-2003 |
Because Mani, Your petition will have no effect. The decision has been made. The neighborhood is backing the proposal and the city thinks this is the best solution. The only thing a petition will do is make the people who sign it temporarily happy. Then they will be severely dissapointed when the stadium is "Historically dismantled". | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 188 Registered: 10-2003 |
Many people think Tiger Stadium can still be saved because there has been no feasibility study taken of the stadium. There is no record of the exact costs it would take to maintain the stadium, the amount of asbestos, if any, or the initial costs involved in getting the stadium back to usability. The City of Detroit has made statements about its poor and unsafe condition, but like Coleman Young's "the ballpark is falling down" statement in the early 90s, no evidence has been provided to back up his claim or the city's current statements. The images of the ballpark made public in the past couple of months show no indication of major disrepair. The rust you see on the girders in Tiger Stadium can also be found to a lesser extant on the very much in use Fenway Park. Also add to the fact, the city did extremely poor overseeing the 400K a year in maintenance granted for the ballpark, and you have an environment that is ripe for skepticism and disbelief. The dismantling or demolition of the Tiger Stadium will unquestionably be a sad event for many, but because of the bluster, irresponsibility, and grandstanding of the city actions, it will also be a very bitter event, which is unfortunate. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2005 |
Don't get me wrong, few will be as sad as I when it comes down, but what would they do with it if they saved it? | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 189 Registered: 10-2003 |
What do with Tiger Stadium? Can't say I have the answer, but judging from the ideas and articles that have bounced around in print about the stadium, I would say what to do with Tiger Stadium all depends on the numbers. If a complete study says it will cost $3 million to restore to usability and another $450K in yearly maintenance, then you turn the stadium to a third party, get them to meet those goals through fundraising and matching grants. For meeting the yearly maintenance budget, I like renting the stadium to little league travel teams with additional funds raised with tours, licensing, stadium advertising, volunteer "work to play", and renting out the stadium for various events. Example, if you could get 100 travel league games in there a season for about $4,500 a pop, or $250 a player per 18 kids, there's your ticket. However, if the study says it will be $8 million to restore and another $1.5 million in maintenance, well, that seems to me to beyond the scope of any plan I've heard without seriously compromising the neighborhood. However, the important thing is the Effort. While not many would give the City of Detroit an "A" for Effort in any category, it appears from their work to revive the Book Cadillac they are capable of it. And there definitely appears to be no lack of effort in Detroit's independent organizations such the Historical Society, the DIA's Founders Society, Wayne Preservation, or the Downtown group, all who get major props for their work to keep the city viable and interesting. The frustration again from someone like myself who went so far as to pass out "Save Tiger Stadium" flyers--at Yankee Stadium nonetheless!--is the lack of effort by the city to give that "can do" spirit even a chance. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 653 Registered: 12-2003 |
Your comments bring up a point xd_brook; what is Steinbrenner/NYC planning to do with the 'House that Ruth built' once the Yanks get their new stadium? Save it for little-league games or pound it to rubble? While I've been a huge fan of the hallowed grounds at Michigan & Trumbull, I have come to the realization that its fait accompli, just too late. This current plan is what the Corktown residents want, and one that saves the most important part(s) of the park. Hopefully, the dismantling & partial restoration will be done with care, and will enhance the field's use and neighborhood in the years to come. Got to learn to let go on this one. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2005 |
it appears from their work to revive the Book Cadillac they are capable of it. Only after it sat vacant for 22 years. Tiger Stadium would have to stick around another 15 years at that pace. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3053 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with the sentiments about being sad to see Tiger Stadium go; I have as many fond memories as anyone. I also worked with with the Tiger Stadium fan club to try and save it and keep the Tigers there. Well, we lost and life must go on. I'm even beyond my resentment toward the owners for not going with the very viable Cochrane plan that would have kept and revitalized it for all parties. Corktown, thanks to the hard work of many, is on the rise and the replacement plan is, IMO, the best of possible worlds to continue that growth while paying respect to that shrine of baseball. They have labored on in spite of being hemmed in by the two dead colossi of the the stadium and the station. Those who would like to save the stadium would better serve by striving to save the train station, a worthwhile work of architecture, in a manner that would benefit its surrounding rising neighborhoods, as opposed to the doomed stadium, a hodge podge of hasty additions. Take away its history and it is just another a boring eyesore. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 190 Registered: 10-2003 |
The Tiger Stadium Fan Club actually did some good work and, while not documented, I like to think that their efforts had some influence in the shifting ballpark design towards the "retro" shapes found at Camden Yards or the Field in Arlington Texas. As for the new Yankee Stadium, I would definitely not consider that a rosy scenerio. From my understanding, not only are baseball fans losing the field where Ruth played (they lost their stadium years ago), but the South Bronx is also losing one of its favorite parks. Its situation is somewhat similiar to my Brooklyn neighborhood fighting the effort to bring the NJ Nets & high-density development to Brooklyn, in what some are calling the Second Battle of Brooklyn. In both cases, the politicians and developers have been exceedingly adept at avoiding the political checks and balances that assure public input. There's a lot more to said about these two issues, but there's no reason to hijack this thread to go on about politics here. So in short, I would not recommend in these instances for people to look to NY as an example of doing the right thing. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2883 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hey Xd_brklyn, have you ever been to the former Brooklyn Paramount Theatre building? Long Island University uses the palatial lobby for a cafeteria, and the fabulously opulent auditorium is used for basketball games. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 191 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gistok, sad to say, no, but that's a situation that I'll have to correct soon. Last season the Long Island University basketball team played their last game in auditorium. They now have a new facility with more space and I'm sure other amenities they didn't have before. Though it is no longer the official court of LIU, they did mention something about keeping it a court for student recreation which would be cool. My father-in-law is a native a Brooklynite and he's told me many a story about the once vibrant theater district in Brooklyn. Of course, he saw everyone at the Paramount, including numerous amateur shows that would extend from the early afternoon into the evening. At that time, you didn't have to go into Manhattan to see the big acts, Brooklyn had it all. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1063 Registered: 10-2003 |
Make a stupid statement, expect a stupid response. I'm all for saving the stadium if every stadium lover bought and/or built a house on one of the parking lots in the neighborhood. If you love Tiger Stadium, now's your chance to step up and be counted! | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 741 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am a Tiger Stadium lover, and a strong supporter of historic preservation, but there is no feasible way to save Tiger Stadium. No amount of softball games, little league games, or charity events could justify the cost of renovating and maintaining a 50,000 seat stadium. No minor league baseball team or major league soccer team can even come close to drawing the number of fans needed to keep Tiger Stadium open. Tiger Stadium can not compete with enclosed facilities like Ford Field, JLA, or the Palace for concerts and other events. The infrequent summer concerts and events that could be done at Tiger Stadium are held at Comerica Park. ----------------- There are only four possible uses for an outdoor, 50,000 seat stadium in the state of Michigan: 1) Home of UM football 2) Home of MSU football 3) Home of Detroit Lions 4) Home of Detroit Tigers MSU and UM are not interested in playing their home in Detroit, and the Lions and Tigers both have brand new stadiums to play in. ------------------ Any attempt to compare a historic rehab/reuse project like the Book Cadillac to Tiger Stadium is way off base. Historic rehab/reuse of old office buildings, hotels, warehouses, mansions, and factories can be seen in almost every city in America. Even the smaller cities, like Jackson and Grand Rapids, are restoring their old buildings for new purposes. Large sports stadia are totally different than these other historic buildings. No abandoned pro stadium in America has ever been repurposed for minor leagues or local sporting events. No pro stadium has been converted into lofts or some other type of reuse. ---------------- Most old stadia are replaced with parking lots after they are demolished, so we should all be supporting this plan for Tiger Stadium. The current proposal, supported by the city and Corktown community groups, wants to save the baseball field and a small portion of Tiger Stadium, and add in some new housing and retail to fill out the neighborhood. ---------------- It would be cool to preserve all of Tiger Stadium, but there is no realistic way to do it. The Tigers and Lions are not coming back to TS, so we must make the best of the situation. Tiger Stadium can either be demolished for a giant stripmall/big box/parking lot/suburban-style development, or it can be developed as a mixed use project that preserves some of the history, and fits in with the neighborhood. | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1640 Registered: 06-2004 |
Erikd speaks the truth. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 1178 Registered: 11-2003 |
I agree with Erikd - I never wanted the Tigers to move, but they have and Comerica PArk is a great placeto watch a game. Time to move on and help Corktown revitalize. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 192 Registered: 10-2003 |
I completely understand the argument of "letting this one go". The stadium belongs to the City of Detroit and it's their decision to go with the Corktown plan, which both recognizes the historical importance of the stadium and works with the Corktown neighborhood. Politically, that's a better compromise to get from the city than getting a big box retail store or worse, a parking lot. Hopefully for Corktown and the Metro area, the final outcome will turn out well. I may be totally wrong because I have no experience in this field*, but I just can't see the overwhelming costs involved in a keeping a place like Tiger Stadium afloat if it is still structurally sound. There's no heating in winter, there's no air-conditioning in summer, minimal lighting for day games, no windows requiring replacement, and it doesn't get 18-wheeler traffic pounding it like most iron and concrete structures. Also it was built in an era when contractors didn't go "cheap" and squeeze out every penny for their margins when came to mixing concrete or anything else. Simply said, 400K a year can buy a lot of paint and grass seed. Again, my take was to get to first base you to have to do the numbers and there was no general feasibility plan initiated. Without some solid numbers, no matter what the circumstance, I'm just not buying anything from anyone period. *Though I have no experience, Bill Haase, an 18-year executive in the Detroit Tiger's front office, in a March 21st article of this year did think the stadium could stand in a limited sense. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4548 Registered: 10-2003 |
Xd brklyn, Just wondering, as I'd love to see Tiger Stadium, too, but what would you do with it? Keeping it standing for its own sake doesn't seem like an option. Are you thinking a museum or something? I'm just glad they are saving the field, and some of the facade. | ||
Rossco Member Username: Rossco Post Number: 55 Registered: 07-2006 |
Tear it down...it doesn't serve any immediate purpose. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4549 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, that's definitely not a reason to tear it down. If we tore down every structure that went vacant that had no immediate purpose, there'd be nothing left. lol That's called rash decision making. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 231 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Tear it down...it doesn't serve any immediate purpose." I'll call the demolition company over to MCS and Lee Plaza. |
