  Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 667 Registered: 07-2004 |
I don't know much about DPS, but this guy at least pretty accurately documents the postwar fall of Detroit, which runs counter to the "conventional wisdom" of the area. http://counterpunch.org/gibson 09262006.html | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1502 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yup! It's one of the better articles that describe Detroit. The writer even claims that its population sank under 800,000 in 2004. I suspect, as he does, that Detroit's bureaucrats and those on the public dole keep inflating the population stats. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1994 Registered: 12-2004 |
It's amazing that someone could write so many words about DPS, without hardly every mentioning that it fails in its central mission to educate children. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 110 Registered: 06-2006 |
VERY impressive article! So it all comes down to overall greed and corruption - not just politicians but corporations and unions. Im currently reading a book on Poletown (name, date, author not handy) but the author refers to our new society as no longer a democracy but something like a "corporationacy". VERY sad and VERY disheartening... | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1503 Registered: 10-2004 |
How can Detroit with about only 45 taxpayers (or is it residents) per city employee (probably not counting the teachers) expect to survive without driving out still more taxpayers? Talk about an entitlement mind set, which I keep referring to. There's a critical mass for population under which the system blows apart. Hint: We're probably already long there. Hence, the reasoning for the corrupt politicians continuing to falsify the population figures. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 27, 2006) | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 551 Registered: 02-2004 |
Mtm, another word would be "fascist". | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 238 Registered: 02-2006 |
Please children, be skeptical of believe what you read from this article. read what has been said of the emag that it is in. "Counterpunch is a web magazine owned and edited by Alexander Cockburn. Cockburn's anti-Americanism can compete only with his anti-Semitism, and Counterpunch largely promotes these two sentiments on its pages. Cockburn has been denounced in the past for both his anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism by Frank Foer of New Republic magazine, and by a variety of other journals, organizations and columnists, including the Seattle Times, the Declaration Foundation, Professor Edward Alexander, LewRockwell.com, LeftWatch, and Christian Action for Israel. In the past Cockburn openly gave credence to reports that Jews spread anthrax in the U.S. and that Israel was part of a conspiracy to topple the World Trade Center. Cockburn insists Jews conspire to control the media Certainly this author has a slant on things that he presents as fact. Be an independent thinker and look at the facts themselves. There hasn't been enough of his "bad guys" (aka - the man) he blames for our woes in Detroit for years. When we look at the enemy he is us. We elected the inept politicians, we won't demand police action, we won't get rid of lenient courts. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 668 Registered: 07-2004 |
Haha. Alexander Cockburn has been criticizing the powerful for more than 30 years. Lots of people hate him. As for the quote from Steven Plaut, don't believe all you read indeed! After scanning his views on Israel, it's hardly surprising he's calling Cockburn an anti-Semite. That's what happens when the Israel-wrong-or-right crowd is faced with valid criticisms. Anyway, isn't this called an ad hominem attack? Not very sporting, River Rat. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2539 Registered: 10-2003 |
Funny, I posted an article by Cockburn a few weeks back: NON-DETROIT ISSUES » The 9/11 Conspiracy nuts You'll notice that Cockburn's article is dismissive of all the silly conspiracy theories, including the "jews didn't go to work on 9/11 BS. Cockburn was fired, I believe, from the NYT in the 80's for writing articles too critical of the Ray-Gun funded Salvadoran Death Squads. Great article, I find it a bit short on criticism of the layers of useless gatekeepers and paper shufflers that bloat the main office of the DPS. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 112 Registered: 06-2006 |
The book I mentioned earlier is Poletown Community Betrayed by Jeanine Wylie, published in 1989. It's probably out of print by now because I bought it at a used library book sale years ago. Although it does have a somewhat anti-corporate stance, forward by Ralph Nader, who wasinvolved in the protest, the book notes the number of car and transport parking spaces that were required for the plant, necessitating more land and more neighborhood destruction. CoD did not determine the space taken; GM already did it for them. Residents of the area didn't even really know of the deal until it was fait acomplis and when they tried to negotiate for plan revisions to save their homes, they were rebuffed because the plan was already signed and sealed. Corporate greed still rules... (Message edited by mtm on September 27, 2006) (Message edited by mtm on September 27, 2006) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5026 Registered: 02-2004 |
Here's the result. The DPS Teacher's strike cause over 200 students to flight to those EVIL Charter Schools and suburban schools. Sixteen school days are missed, Three break days have been cut and count day results are not preety. It's a nightmare for the DFT and the Detroit School Board. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1174 Registered: 11-2003 |
Not only that Danny, but it brings DPS that much closer to that 100,000 mark that allows more charters to be opened in the City of Detroit when DPS ceases to be a Class A School District. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 670 Registered: 06-2006 |
16 school days were NOT missed. 4 days were missed by students. The 16 days of striking included all those negotiation days (weekends, holidays, etc). The teachers were to go back to work on the Monday prior to Labor Day. We were to work Monday 8-25, Tuesday 8-26 and Wednesday 8-27 with no kids. We had Thursday 8-28 and Friday 8-29 and Monday off 9-4 (for Labor Day). Kids were to report back to school on Tuesday the 5th. We were off for the strike on Tuesday 9-5, Wednesday 9-6, Thursday 9-7, and Friday 9-8 (that is 4 days of missed school by the kids). We returned to school (everyone) on 9-11. Please report facts, if you are going to comment on the strike. The kids missed 4 days of school, not 16. The TEACHERS missed 7 work days (and will miss one month's pay as a result). The news media reports 16 because that is the number of days negotiations were going (including weekends, holidays, etc). | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1519 Registered: 10-2004 |
Considering the routine, high absenteeism rate at DPS from both the teachers and students, they could have blown off an entire month, and that wouldn't have mattered much at the end of the school year. And stow your bitching about losing pay. You gambled and took extra "vacation" and lost pay as a result. Tough! You should have been fired instead. Well-run businesses would have canned your collective asses for your voluntary actions. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 672 Registered: 06-2006 |
I wasn't bitching about losing pay. I was merely stating that we don't lose 7 days pay, we lose a month's pay! Stow YOUR bitching about something you obviously know nothing about. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1520 Registered: 10-2004 |
You, DT, still have a job. You went on strike for the "children" and reluctantly returned (by a narrow-vote DFT majority) for the "children." | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 569 Registered: 02-2004 |
LY won't stop, DetroitTeacher. LY's union hatred is impossible to calm down. That kind of person won't be happy until you are making the minimum wage, and not the fake ass raise that came through today. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 673 Registered: 06-2006 |
Livernois: If you had read other posts by me right before the strike, you would know that I was NOT in favor of striking. I won't, however, cross ANY picket line. Oldred, we got a fake ass raise today? I didn't know we got ANY raise, let alone a fake ass one...  | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 572 Registered: 02-2004 |
Detroitteacher, the Cranbrook Peace Foundation is bringing Howard Zinn to Detroit on Sunday November 5. We are very interested in getting high school students to the event. Interested? | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 674 Registered: 06-2006 |
I'd love to have my students attend. Getting permission for them to go (I can't go with them because of liability issues) will be a treat. If they go on their own, it won't be a problem. I can pass the info on to them, though. Care to post it here? | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 289 Registered: 01-2005 |
...and folks wonder why so many people in SW MI and across the country look upon Detroit with derision, amusement, disbelief and awe. No one can reasonably argue that the DPS Administration is not bloated, incompetent, amd the major hindrance to quality education in Detroit. No one can reasonably argure that DPS teachers, for the most part, are not dedicated and grievously underpaid. However, there is a law against teacher strikes, however poorly drafted. The teacher's union and the teachers themselves blatantly violated the law and in the process sent a message to their students that the end justify the means and that one does not have to obey laws that they deem stupid, unjust or inconvenient. And how can one wonder at the lawlessness that pervades Detroit? Maybe the whole DPS system will eventually spontaneously deconstruct and someone with an ounce of brains will be able to start all over. (And, much of the blame for the duration of the strike can be laid at the feet of that nitwit Judge Susan Borman, who should have ruled on day 1 that the strike was illegal, and on day 2, when the teachers did not go back, put all the leaders in jail for contempt and fine the union $50,000 a day.) Doomed. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 573 Registered: 02-2004 |
Some laws are just plain bullshit. I have friends around the country who are teachers who said a prayer every night for the success of the Detroit teachers. (Message edited by oldredfordette on October 01, 2006) | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 290 Registered: 01-2005 |
Sure, some (many) laws are just plain bullshit. So what. I guess you'll obey the ones you like and I'll obey the ones I like. Great system. (Until I or someone comes along and screws you out of your life savings by violating the securities laws designed to prevent fraudulent conduct in connection w/ the sale of stock, which I happen to think are bullshit laws, since if everyone followed the edict of "buyer beware" we wouldn't need them.) | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 577 Registered: 02-2004 |
It's already like that, 3rdworldcity. Welcome to America. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2004 Registered: 12-2004 |
That's one way of doing it, but - quite frankly - it would be a lot more productive for them to pray that DPS starts doing a much better job of educating its students. I've said it before and I'll say it again because everyone just glosses over the issue; having more than 90% of the students in certain classes fail to meet the state minimum standard for academic performance is not acceptable. Since neither the teachers nor the administration are willing to respond to this problem proactively, we will almost certainly see enrollment drop within DPS. Detroit's population will also continue to drop as more parents move to where they're childrens education is taken seriously. All of that, of course, means that there will be more schools closing, more teachers getting laid off and those who remain being required to make even more sacrifices. That, in my opinion, is the only real lesson from the Detroit teacher strike and it's one that hardly anyone is learning. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1523 Registered: 10-2004 |
"I have friends around the country who are teachers who said a prayer every night for the success of the Detroit teachers." This is probably just another phoney statement, which generally loses points in the long run for the greedy, already overpaid teachers. Why not direct "prayers" for the real success of Detroit's teachers--where it counts--in the education of their charges? However, the true and probably only reason for the DFT is the financial well-being of its members. Everything else has been already proven by virtue of its strike. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 635 Registered: 10-2003 |
Teachers Unions have done a wonderful job of blurring the lines between teachers' desires and the needs of children.... which are often in truth, at odds with each other. If you separate the issues, as you logically should, the biggest leasson learned should be that teachers should be "at will" employees like the rest of the professionals (outside of govt. employees) in this country. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5046 Registered: 02-2004 |
Detroitteacher, If you're in the picket line holding up the flags of solidarity against the Detroit School Board after the official first day of school on September 5th to the second week. Then those days were missed for students and teachers. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8840 Registered: 10-2003 |
Irish_mafia, I would disagree. Most teachers chose that profession for their love of teaching, the challenges of teaching students of various learning levels. What most teachers want are everyday materials to be able to teach ALL students, not just some. What happens with the DPS and other poor districts like it, is that the teachers burn out. How long can a person "teach" when there are not enough books for each student? No heat in the winter? Leaking roofs, no outlets or A/V equipment, let alone computers? Underpaid and grossly overworked? Now add the problems of many students with horrible home lives (with a myriad of social problems to contend with)and you can see it's not a walk in the park. Take those grievances to any private sector and the gov't themselves would close the places down due to safety concerns. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 675 Registered: 06-2006 |
Goat, I think I love ya.....I have been saying the same thing in many threads. Glad someone else sees or hears about what I go through daily. I won't trade it or stop teaching in Detroit because I have a love for my students and I see potential in kids when very few others would even look. It's 9:30 and I am just now getting home after Homecoming coronation rehearsals and tryouts and doing stuff outside of my normal job description, for the kids! I was there at 7:30 am and left about 9 pm. Don't see too many others putting in hours like that for kids that they didn't give birth to...(and we teachers pay for it all out of pocket to make something nice for the kids) | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2006 Registered: 12-2004 |
Funny, I went to the picket lines during the teacher's strike, talked to some of the striking teachers and the only thing that heard complaints about was the administration's plan to cut their benefits. More imporantly, I haven't heard any complaints about any teachers within DPS about as many as 90% of their students' failing to meet the state's minimium standards for academic perfomance.
Congrats. I'm sure the kids who were there appreciate everything that you did. However, I help but notice that the MEAP scores are out for this year. At Cooley High School, only 27% of 12th graders met or exceeded the state's minimium standards for academic performance for reading; only 17% met or exceeded for writing. The school's Ed Yes! grade for the English Language Arts was a great big F. Meanwhile, the same kids who have the same parents, eat the same breakfast and study in the same building managed to score a C in social studies. A C isn't exactly knocking the cover off the ball, but it's a lot better than an F. So here's a friendly suggestion: if you want to spend hour after hour getting the kids ready for homecoming, fine. However, I'd encourage you to squeeze in some time with the social studies teacher and figure out what he or she is doing differently. Sources for the above statistics: http://www.greatschools.net/mo dperl/achievement/mi/1085 https://oeaa.state.mi.us/ayp/s chool_one_only_1_2004.asp?ECDi d=4464&Grade=11 | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 38 Registered: 05-2006 |
You need a few things to happen in order to change the school system around. One, we need to understand that because the school district is the first or second largest employer of city residents the primary mission to educate kids has been lost. The primary mission is to maintain and create jobs and let contracts(bid or no-bid the process as it exist smells.. see recent IT contract) Secondly, I know as a union town this might seem crazy but I feel teachers should become at-will employees(this was mention earlier) The problem as stated during the strike is that you have a percentage of teachers that only deserve a small raise, a percentage that deserve a big raise and still a percentage that needs to be fired. As a community we can't get to what those numbers are because of the union contracts and workrules that are in place. Hate to use auto's but there is a corrolation. As long as the big three were competiting against each other there was somewhat of a level playing field. Once foriegn companies with no unions and in-house unions came into the picture market share falls to levels that there cost structure can't support. Same with the schools.It would be politically unacceptable if you cut all the personnel including teachers and closed the necessary schools in order to hit your budget. Right now one can make an case that charter schools aren't as good but in a few years that won't even hold up since they are not stuck with union workrules, they can make the changes on the fly to become more competitive with the public schools. Thats just the schools part, parents have to stop looking at DPS as free public daycare and invest some time and energy into making sure their child is being educated properly. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8856 Registered: 10-2003 |
Fnemeck, Cutting teachers benefits will only further to push the good teachers to find work elsewhere and the DPS will only be left with garbage. Maybe if the DPS wanted to save money they could look into their own administration and find that and more of the saving they need. Cutting salaries and benefits to teachers does not make for a decent school board. However, finding ways to save money in a bloated admin and getting rid of red tape will free up those dollars that are so badly needed at the school level. Quit spending money on the schools that are already successful (Cass Tech for one) and work on the schools that need to be fixed, torn down and rebuilt...you know the saying. "You are only as good as your weakest link." The teachers however, are NOt the weakest link, the board is! Edited for addendum. (Message edited by GOAT on October 03, 2006) | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2011 Registered: 12-2004 |
If you're willing to overlook, excuse or attempt to rationalize away the fact that an overwhelming majority of your students are failing to meet the state's minimum standards for academic achievement then, as far as I'm concerned, you are not a good teacher. Yes, DPS needs to make a mulitude of changes within its administration. However, it also needs to make just as many changes in who it employs as teachers. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8859 Registered: 10-2003 |
Once again you fail to realize that without the proper tools a teacher can't do anything in the classroom. Once again cutting their benefits will not make the DPS any better! Please read Kozol's "A Savage Inequality" and you will understand where cuts need to be made, and cutting benefits to teachers does nothing but continue to harm students. You get what you pay for! | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 39 Registered: 05-2006 |
Actually David Adamany cut out much of the administrative fat The problem adminstratively is the management of the funds they receive from state and federal sources. The spending and reporting of funds while always bad has gotten worst in part due to the decreased numbers in adminstration. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1534 Registered: 10-2004 |
"Once again you fail to realize that without the proper tools a teacher can't do anything in the classroom. Once again cutting their benefits will not make the DPS any better!" I just cannot allow this piece of anal retentivity concerning education go unchallenged... Teaching is definitely not a uniquely difficult job description. Just what is involved, for the most part? Teaching kids the basics (minimums, mainly) is about it... For K-8 education, it's a job held primarily by women. Fully 91% of K-8 teachers are women. The SAT scores of teacher candidates while in college fall within the lowest of the college SAT pool with the median for all K-12 teachers falling around the 25 percentile or lower. If teachers were miraculously suddenly elevated to "normal," the median for K-12 teachers would be around the 50 percentile mark, but that hasn't been the case for some four decades in the US. Actually, the mean SAT scores for phy ed, special ed, and elementary (K-6) teachers are each far lower than the mean SAT scores for graduating high school seniors. In fact, phy ed teachers have mean SATs just a bit over 800--really bottom-feeding low. What's worse, is the factoid that many school principals enter through the phy ed teacher career trek. Even worse. High school teachers actually have mean SAT scores just around the mean for graduating HS seniors. Hopefully, physics and chemistry HS teachers will be pedestrianly average as far as SATs and IQs go. What I'm leading to is this: teachers haven't been the brighter bulbs on the Christmas tree for at least four decades. SAT scores peaked during 1962 and have been abysmally low afterwards to the present. In fact, the older SAT test was scrapped for a dumbed-down version in January 1994 and was very slightly made tougher only very recently. Still, the SATs scores are much lower even with renorming (raising everybody's SAT scores every few years). It's only through good public relations between parents and teachers are teachers afforded the respect they get. Do they really deserve it in general? Well, you really have to consider each teacher on an individual basis. However, what good does being a good teacher do for a teacher dollar-wise when the most incompetent earns the same as the best teachers with the same time in grade? After a while, it has to grate on even the best of them. And remember, they are not that hot in the first place on a statistical basis. Fred already found that out, so he won't be buying the bull shit that DFT and DPS emit. To be continued... (I got some technical editing/writing to do as a freeelancer with a workload. No work, no pay.) (Message edited by LivernoisYard on October 03, 2006) | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 601 Registered: 01-2005 |
My SAT score in English Language was in the 98th percentile. I remember my teachers emphasising that only one percent of the population taking the test scored higher. I don't recall my math score - it was certainly lower. I had two majors at Marygrove - one in Literature and one in Theology. Two minors: Philosophy and Education. Those were the days of a classic Liberal Arts Education. Marygrove had a rigorous education department and teaching was considered a quality, contributing career then. However, I soon enrolled in graduate school at WSU in the education department and was very shocked. The calibre of graduate students in that department discouraged me. Many were barely literate and they spoke so poorly and their interests were so mediocre! They had undergraduate degrees - but I was mystified as to how they were earned and I was saddened to think that they were colleagues that I would have to respect. Soon I left teaching for good. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1535 Registered: 10-2004 |
WSU offers an MIT masters for teaching whose admissions requirement is only an overall undergraduate GPA of 2.6 in any major or a 2.5 in education (or something almost identical). You don't even need any prior ed mill courses in order to be admitted. So one can really witness the vacuity of an ed mill degree at any level. This same WSU was attempting to force the study of ebonics as an actual, required language requirement for its teacher candidates too just a few years ago. How sad! But also very telling... There has been a local joke at Yale that went on for decades. "The widest street on Yale's campus is the road that separates its ed mill from the rest of the university." | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2012 Registered: 12-2004 |
I wish we were getting what we paid for! If teacher/administrator pay was tracked to student performance, no one within DPS would make more than $8 per hour. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 676 Registered: 06-2006 |
My students are the 12 percent who passed the MEAP in Language Arts. My students received all ones and twos on those tests (which meet or exceeed state standards). I can't speak for anyone else in my department. So, no need for ME to get with the Social Studies teachers. In defense of our Language Arts program, we didn't have permanent teachers in some positions and that could have lowered scores at our school. Before anyone judges me and what I am doing with the kids, ask about MY students' test scores. MY kids are passing the Language Arts section. I have the data to prove they were mine but am unable to share that with anyone because of privacy laws concerning students since you wouldn't know they were mine without a class roster and their names. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 678 Registered: 06-2006 |
I carry a 3.9 gpa in three different grad programs at an accredited university. My undergrad GPA wasn't much different (I double majored in English and History). My ACT score was a 35 and I took it in 9th grade. Everyone told me with a score like that there was no need for the SAT so I didn't take it. I was recruited by Notre Dame and UCLA among other prominent schools. Personal circumstances prevented me from taking advantage of many opportunities that were offered to me. I care about my students, they have the best test scores in the school (and I don't have AP or Honors classes either). I work hard because of them and for them. I get little or nothing in return except to know that I was there busting my butt. I may be tooting my own horn but there are a few other teachers in the building that are the same as I am...they just plain care about the kids. There are also others who don't give a damned and it shows. The kids know who they are and the teachers know who they are. Those are the teachers who bring down the scores. Since I started teaching Juniors and Seniors (and another colleague of mine who started a few years ago), ACT scores have risen, more kids are getting the MEAP scholarships. Just thought I'd defend myself and my kids. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 793 Registered: 06-2004 |
That article is leftwing drivel hardly worth reading. Don't you guys travel? Don't you go to other parts of the country that are thriving as we fail and don't you begin to comprehend that the world has left behind our region and its failed leftwing policies of class conflict, militant unionism and entitlement? Even Communist China has given up on it. I'm really depressed that the left still carries so much credibility in this region. Meanwhile, human and financial capital races for the exits. My mental image of the proletariats is as helpless and guiless passengers on an airliner, piloted by their deranged left-leaning political establishment, ranting and raving about class conflict while they fly the plane into an economic mountainside. (Message edited by ray on October 03, 2006) | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2014 Registered: 12-2004 |
Could have? Your school failed miserably. In fact, your school got a failing grade in every subject except social studies and even then you only got a C. If the problem lies with the other teachers in Language Arts then you might want to start protesting about that. I guarantee you'd have a much bigger impact on your students' lives then a homecoming ever will. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2015 Registered: 12-2004 |
Actually, it was neither left-wing nor right-wing. It was just drivel. The interesting thing is that, with the way DPS is "teaching", most of their students couldn't have read it anyway. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 679 Registered: 06-2006 |
Protest what? We've tried to get the teacher who teaches the Senior AP class removed because she doesn't teach (kids and parents and teachers blew a fit) and all admin did was to get rid of the AP class and make it a regular Senior English class. These are some of the kids that got the high scores last year on the MEAP. I have come to realize that the ONLY thing I have an impact on in DPS is my classroom and MY kids. I can't do anything about much else. Even the parents don't have much say in anything. | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 46 Registered: 06-2006 |
In that article, why were commas being used in places where there should have been apostrophes? That tells me right away that Gibson is uneducated. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2017 Registered: 12-2004 |
You have three graduate level degrees. If students in your school are failing almost every subject and you don't know what to protest then shame on you.
If you cannot affect change within your own school when it clearly needs it then don't expect any sympathy when parents send their kids elsewhere; resulting in more salary & benefit cuts for teachers & staff. [Edited for typo.] (Message edited by fnemecek on October 04, 2006) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1539 Registered: 10-2004 |
"In that article, why were commas being used in places where there should have been apostrophes? That tells me right away that Gibson is uneducated." As an editor, I would not make that assumption. Who knows how many times somebody other than the writer messed with the material? This appears to be the handiwork of some inept editor and not the writer. I'm editing some twenty papers for a DC auto-related lobby for the next few weeks where twenty different author-SMEs each used their own separate writing styles where some experts/profs were not Americans. It could also very well be that a different keyboard setup was used. Or, a special style could have been employed where the "straight" apostrophes were substituted by "curly" apostrophes. My take is that the latter probably happened. Some editor probably created a special "style" or "tag" for apostrophes and erred by inserting the comma for the apostrophe while doing this. And in haste, never bothered to check. The change also could have occurred much as a time bomb, due to some subsequent changes with poor coordination between editors, etc. So, don't blame writers for doing things outside their control. In a similar vein, Lowell or somebody with moderator/administrator privileges could easily mess with your DY text and make you appear stupid. As one of the lead editors for OOo, I created and administer a phpBB board for technical writers/editors at one of OpenOffice.org's documentation projects. As such, I could mess with any post. I would put the blame here on the lead editor not taking due diligence. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on October 04, 2006) | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8862 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yep, it's the teachers fault. They don't do anything but sit in front a classroom and hand out xerox copies to their students. It's the teachers fault that many students come to school with no breakfast or lunch. It's the teachers fault that students tried to do their homework without electricity or had to stay home to watch their brothers or sisters because their parent(s) were in jail. It's the teachers fault that the schools are crumbling around them. It's the teachers fault there is no playground equipment. It's the teachers fault there are not enough books... You get my point. If the teachers salaries were tied to the perfomrance of students, it wouldn't change students gpa's much because most (not all)of these problems lie either at the DPS admin, or the home life of the student. Until anyone has either known someone who teaches in low income districts or has taught in one themselves, you might want to see where these teachers are coming from before spouting off. No use in going on about this as Fnemecek, Livernoisyard and the like know it is the teachers fault. Could anyone imagine doing their jobs without the necessary tools (LY do your job without a computer and books to rely on and see how difficult it is. Fnemecek, do your job without a camera and lights.)...I'm done. | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 47 Registered: 06-2006 |
Livernoisyard, You are right. I was too hasty on that. Obviously I don't need any help to appear stupid; nevertheless, I couldn't trudge throught the article. It seemed to blame everything on captalism. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1540 Registered: 10-2004 |
Consider the source. Besides, one of the article's editors is Alexander Cockburn. His biggest bitch is that the Democrat party is not socialist enough. I remember whenever he speaks in the People's Republic of Madison, the Trots seem to come out from under their rocks. The same would occur in the People's Republic near Detroit. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2018 Registered: 12-2004 |
So, how come there's such a wide variation in academic performance within the same group of students? As I pointed out above, at Cooley H.S. students are doing much better in their social studies program than in any other subject; earning a C on the Education Yes! grade as opposed to an F in every other subject. Do you really mean to tell me that the student's home life is effecting everything but their performance in one particular subject? Or is it possible that the teachers in that social studies program have found a way to break through to their students in spite of all the various challenges those students face? You can call me crazy, but the second option simply seems a lot more plausible. Maybe, just maybe, the students might actually benefit if a few of their teachers spent some time looking at what their better performing colleagues were doing differently. Here's another example, at Carver Elementary near me, the students do well on all of their standardized testing. That is, until they hit one particular classroom where they fail miserably with more than 90% of students failing to meet the state's minimum standard for academic performance in that subject area. If a problem is localized to one and only one teacher, do you really think that teacher has no responsiblity for what is going on? Is there some kind of demon floating around the school that sucks the breakfast out of students' bellies, but only when they're dealing with one particular teacher? Come on! Wake up and smell the proverbial coffee before it's too late. Yes, DPS needs to make changes within its management of the schools. However, the teachers also need to realize that they have at least some responsibility for what is going inside of their classrooms, too. Because, and this is the important part, when responsible parents see results like what DPS is producing they will pull them out of the district; sending their children to either charter schools, private ones or, if they have, they'll more to the suburbs and enroll their kids there. And that only escalates the problems that DPS is having. The only way out of this situation is for a) administrators to start doing a better job with all of the back-office operations of the district and b) teachers to accept that they have some responiblity for what happens in their classrooms as well. Unless both of those things happen, I firmly believe that there won't even be a DPS as we know it in 10 years. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 681 Registered: 06-2006 |
Thanks Goat. I can only work with what the parents send me and what the school supplies. I've already spent over 500.00 on supplies and copies (because we don't have books) and other necessities (toilet paper being one...there is none in the school that I can find and kids have to use the restroom at some point during the day). But, I take the blame, their performance is my fault. I can protest and make change in an environment that won't allow for change. I can feed the 1500 kids we have. I can buy their supplies. I can fix their home life. I can pay their electric bill and babysit all the little kids so my students can do their homework. I'll try better to do all that tomorrow. Tonight, I am exhausted from grading 300 papers, working my way around a class with 50 kids in it, and covering a class that has no teacher. I am also emotionally drained from comforting the kid who found out her dad overdosed on drugs today (she doesn't know where her mom is) and the kid whose house burned to the ground last night. He came to school to shower in the locker room and get some breakfast and lunch. I'll try harder tomorrow. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1543 Registered: 10-2004 |
Let's do some math armed with the figure supplied in the preceding post: 1500 kids @ $7400 = $11.1 million for Cooley HS DT, because this is your school, you should be able to entertain us about how this money gets allocated. How much of this $11 million DPS receives (on behalf of Cooley) goes towards Cooley HS and how much of that sum goes toward salaries (the biggest sucking sound, obviously) and how does the remainder get allocated? If DT is unable to adequately come up with a defensible, plausible accounting, perhaps, somebody else might. Afterwards, we could do a better breakdown on other cost areas, but let's get the big picture first before tackling the lesser items. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 718 Registered: 12-2005 |
The November issue (volume 298, number 4) of The Atlantic has an interesting series of essays regarding education. Dates span 1909-1991. http://www.theatlantic.com/ide astour/education/ There's also a comment by Clive Crook about why college is not an economic cure-all. I couldn't find that one online. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 683 Registered: 06-2006 |
Livernois: Individual schools don't get the money, the district does. We have 60 teachers on staff (all making various amounts of money, but for the sake of arguement, we'll say on average 50 grand per teacher). 60 X 50,000=3 million in salaries (that doesn't include Principals and APs who make at least 100,000 each or the office staff, the one custodian we have and luch room personell or security). We also have Cooley North averaged into our student population (they receive their money separately because they have CI students and they have more needs). I am not sure about the dollar amount for that. I am sure there are building funds (for lights and such). I can say that we have had two main stairways closed because the roof leaks and the ceiling has fallen in and is a hazard). They say it will cost in excess of 3 million to fix. Honestly, other than salary, I can't tell you where the money goes. I do know that the state funds go into a common pot downtown and not in each individual school. Cooley itself doesn't get the 11 million, DPS does. What they do with it, I don't know. I am sure retirees, benefits, etc cost a big chunk. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 684 Registered: 06-2006 |
Don't forget Coleman AND his wife who bring in about half a million combined. DPS also buys bus passes for those kids on the Free and Reduced lunch program. Cooley was allocated 33 of those passes even though 80% of our population qualifies for the FRL program. We also have to pay for groundspeople (outside contractors). I'd say Cooley itself (including salaries) gets about 7 million of that money. Don't know what it's spent on, it sure isn't books and supplies. We can't get an accounting, perhaps DPS can provide the breakdown but I am not privvy to that info. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1544 Registered: 10-2004 |
My original question was specific as to what was asked: Of the $11 million that DPS receives for every 1500 students, such as at Cooley, how much of that gets to Cooley and of that amount, how much goes to salaries (and perks--I left that part out.). And afterwards, where does the rest go? Obviously, there's a big sucking sound occurring near Warren and Woodward. So, you believe that Cooley receives, perhaps, $5 million per year (for eight months work of seven-hour days, including lunch). This should include the entire staff, down to any paid monitors and some occasional police patrols. That still leaves $6 million per 8-month year. There's no way that the amount of shared overhead sucked in on Woodward could take all of that. The hot lunch program takes in extra funding outside of the $7400 per student, and special needs students are probably also being funded out of various sundry programs. So the actual funding per student exceeds $7400 per 8-month year. It would be informative to actually pick apart the funding and expenditures of a particular school (such as Cooley) and follow the money and ascertain just who's got their hands into what. And also to see how the big sucking sound on Woodward operates... | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 685 Registered: 06-2006 |
Livernois, I agree. Teachers don't see ANY money, outside of salary and benefits. We fund most of the extra curriculars ourselves (such as paying for homecoming activities, etc). Our stairs still need fixing, I have no heat in the winter in my room, I have ONE working plug, NO equipment that I don't provide out of pocket, and the list goes on. If you find out where the cash is going, let me know...I'm not seeing much of it. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1545 Registered: 10-2004 |
You're talking about the minor, secondary costs of running a school district--what goes towards materials. Obviously, salaries and perquisites, such as, say $10,000/yr for health insurance and still more for pensions easily consume, perhaps, well over 80% of the total school district revenues. You must realize that even at $50,000 (low for DPS) for salaries and perks per teacher, there are still other costs related to salary, such as around 7% FICA and unemployment and workman's compensation (or something similar for government employees--such as teachers). When attending a Catholic elementary school in Milwaukee for eight years, I never once had an English text--not one. The Archdiocese's Chancelor's Office downtown arranged for printing all of our single sheets, and occasionally some student volunteers (at the point of guns) would collate them into simple folders. This could easily be done at DPS if they weren't so fricking stupid (and crooked) and produced their own materials at low cost. Obviously, the books are missing because a fair number of the "students" at Cooley and all the other schools stole them or literally threw them away. If DPS would provide each student with a simple folio for their materials annually, and if they lost or trashed them, tough! Let them buy another, and if they don't, suspend them or worse if they don't care to go on with the program. This "solution" is so simple that it defies my comprehension that it wouldn't or couldn't work. And all that bitching about no books would simply have no basis for existing. I, for one, would rather see DPS fail monetarily (and the city too) because that is the only way they will change for the better. Everything else is just too little, too slow, if at all. Let them both go into receivership. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1546 Registered: 10-2004 |
Editorial update: Detroit teachers' recall campaign is vindictive Wednesday, October 04, 2006 Plan to target board president will damage image of district Hard decisions confront the Detroit school system. A teacher-led recall campaign against the Detroit school board president for trying to make those decisions will help assure the district's failure. The Detroit system is $200 million in debt to the state and is under state orders to eliminate its deficit and repay the money. The teachers' illegal strike helped accelerate the flight of students. The district has been losing pupils at the rate of about 1,000 a month. Preliminary counts following the strike showed that 25,000 fewer students showed up for classes, though district officials think that number will improve significantly when the final numbers are tallied. Still, the even before the strike the district was projecting a 7,400-student decline from its enrollment last year of 129,000. Each lost student costs the district about $7,450 in state aid. That doesn't even include federal money. More lost students means even more lost funding. And that will require cuts to balance the budget. Parents and who think the state is going to bail out the district and spare it from tough choices are kidding themselves. The district has too many buildings. School board President Jimmy Womack has said the district will need to close 50 schools to match its declining enrollment, and that was before the strike-related decline in enrollment. Having caused a portion of the district's woes with its illegal strike, the Detroit Federation of Teachers executive board now proposes to devote its energies to recalling Womack because of his tough stand on teacher pay issues. Womack told The Detroit News he felt he had to be tough because of the district's financial straits. The recall is a vindictive attempt to intimidate Womack and other board members from making the cuts the Detroit district must make to survive. Sharif Shakrani, director of Education Policy Center at Michigan State University, told The Detroit News that the strike itself could leave a lasting negative impression in the minds of parents. Adding a contentious, teacher-led recall effort against the school board president will only reinforce the image of the Detroit school district as plagued with labor strife. Such an effort, added to the district's existing problems, is a strategic blunder and reflects badly on the leadership of the teacher union. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on October 04, 2006) | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 686 Registered: 06-2006 |
Blame the teachers...it's ok, it's all my fault. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5052 Registered: 02-2004 |
YES!! BLAME THE TEACHERS!! BLAME SOCIETY, BLAME CAPITALISM!! EVEN BLAME AMERICA!! Those blaming fingers and other common everyday problems will not go away unless we starting thinking for ourselves. Just like Socrates is telling his younger Greek colleagues to think for themselves. Democracy has its faults. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2022 Registered: 12-2004 |
Oh, of course, I mean obviously that's what the social studies teachers are doing in your school. Clearly, you're able to do the same. *sigh* Best of luck in surviving the upcoming layoffs. And the next round of cuts in your salary and benefits. And the one after that. And the one after that. And the one after that. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 239 Registered: 04-2006 |
Livernois what is the sucking sound at Woodward and Warren? Surely an enducated man as yourself is in the know that DPS has long moved to the New Center! Get off John Kronk and drive around sometimes! : ) | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 688 Registered: 06-2006 |
Social studies MEAP scores are not even considered as part of AYP. Why bring THAT up? If you had read my posts earlier you would see that I am DOING MY JOB and that my students are passing the LA section of the MEAP. You take stuff out of context! I have three Master's degrees one of which is in Special Ed. (and another soon to be in Autistic studies). I won't be laid off. If I am, I am marketable and can go anywhere I choose. I choose to stay in DPS. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 689 Registered: 06-2006 |
Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe DPS population is shrinking because the whole population of the City of Detroit is shrinking at the same time? People aren't having as many kids as in years past or waiting longer to have them? I didn't think so. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 690 Registered: 06-2006 |
Here is a site that will provide test data (notice SS isn't on there and for good reason, it isn't calculated into our AYP scores). You can also read reviews from kids and parents (some not favorable but most say the teachers are decent). Please note that last year we had a flu epidemic during testing and many kids weren't in school for a week or more and missed the makeup dates. My absenteeism rates for my classes was in the 60 percent each day because of that wicked flu that was going around. The writing and reading scores are the highest of the four. http://www.greatschools.net/mo dperl/browse_school/mi/1085 (Message edited by detroitteacher on October 05, 2006) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1552 Registered: 10-2004 |
And just why might Detroit's population have dropped so drastically during the past year? DPS was only accounting for a drop of 7400 students from 129,000 of the previous year. So, there should be a student body of about 121,000 to 122,000 students, according to DPS's projection, for this school year. Because "count day" already came and went over a week ago, what is the official tally for Detroit, even with all the pizza and iPods as bait that were rumored to lure in any stragglers? | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 691 Registered: 06-2006 |
The count "day" isn't one day. It is a 10 day window with an average of student attendance during that window. 5 dyas before and 5 days after count day is the window. That window ended today. I don't know what anyone's count was, not even our school. We have to have breathing bodies in the class (students MUST attend all their classes in order to be counted). I know all 50 of my students who actually came to school and enrolled in my class...about 10 in each class are missing (in each of my 5 classes) attended MY classes. If they skip just one class, they don't count them. DPS said they will have their figures in about a week. I can not go around and count each student in DPS. We do however, still have students enrolling who have come from Charters and private schools and those who didn't bother to come to school at all until now (and we will have even more next week). I get new kids in class everyday. Some have been on my roster since day 1 but didn't bother to attend classes or pick up their schedule. Is that my fault, too? I can't call home because we don't have cards filled out for those kids yet since they haven't been in the building prior to whatever day they pick up their schedule. I would say 60 percent of my students don't have working phone numbers (those they gave at the beginning of the year) so calling home is futile. (Message edited by detroitteacher on October 05, 2006) | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2023 Registered: 12-2004 |
Because, according to MEAP scores in social studies vs. scores all other subjects, teachers in the social studies are doing a much better job of educating their students than teachers in any of the other subject areas. This is in spite of the fact that teachers throughout the school are starting with the same students, same parents, same building and the same administration. Clearly they are doing something different and that illustrates the point that it is possible for teachers to do a better job at teaching than they are currently doing.
Great. When you're interviewing for your next position, please be sure to mention your opinion that English teachers have absolutely no responsiblity for only 17% of students meeting the state's minimum standard for writing, even when teachers in other subject areas are able to produce much better results with the same students.
Detroit's population is definately shrinking. However, that has little to do with birth rates. The number of live births per woman of child-bearing age in Michigan has remained fairly steady since 1975. There has been some variation from year to year, but the overall trend has remainded consistent. The reason for Detroit's declining population is, to a very large degree, DPS. The two most commonly cited reasons for people leaving Detroit, purely from an anecdotal basis, are high taxes (18 of the 64 mils on our property taxes are for DPS debt) and the desire for better schools. Source for the fertility stats: http://www.mdch.state.mi.us/ph a/osr/natality/g14.asp | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 692 Registered: 06-2006 |
I am the one in our building with the kids with the highest test scores. Fn, are you reading my posts? Obviously not. I am well aware that there are only two or three English teachers in our building worth their salt...I NEVER said it wasn't our responsibility. BUT, it is also the responsibility of the parents to make sure kids are doing homework. I will also say that I am qualified to teach History (Social Studies) and incorporate SS in every lesson I teach! The way you make it sound is that MY kids are failing miserably and they are not. I have Juniors and Seniors and MY kids are passing the test (and getting the scholarships). So when if or when I interview (again, I am choosing to stay in DPS because I believe in my kids) I'll be sure to mention THAT! | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 40 Registered: 05-2006 |
DT- I think we are having a macro vs micro type discussion. Micro in the sense that looking at your success I would think that you are among the top 20% of teachers in the district if you go by the 80-20 rule, if we could clone you DPS would be a much better district. However in a macro sense the numbers are there that the district isn't doing the job on a lot of different levels. It's time that the 20% of teachers start demanding accountability of their union leadership to improve things just like the union leadership is demanding accountability from school district leadership. Its time for the DFT to step up and account for their failures to improve the education of Detroit students. For the DFT to sit back and blame all the failings on management lets them off the hook. But they are as much to blame as the school administration and parents | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 693 Registered: 06-2006 |
Firstandten: I agree. I just feel that some are personally attacking my teaching abilities by demanding that I provide information I don't have and telling me that no teachers are concerned abut test scores and such. Livernois wants a monetary breakdown of Cooley and I can't give that. I feel that some think it is my fault that kids at Cooley aren't doing better on the test. I'll admit it, our Union Rep (who is also on the Executive Board) SUCKS! If he is any indication of what we have on the EB then we are doomed, as are kids in DPS. I make a difference in MY class and that is about all I can do. I can't perform miracles and since there are so many teachers who really don't give a damned, I find it impossible to get DPS, DFT or the teachers who aren't doing their jobs to change. THAT is why I am IN DPS. To make that difference for whichever kids come my way. I can't single handedly improve test scores for the school nor can I make all the problems go away. I am but one person working in dismal conditions. I'm really tired of hearing about someone's Catholic school folio. That was 50 years ago and state standards have changed and virtually require some type of text, technology and whatnots. I can't produce books or pay for what I need to do my job (in addition to paying my bills...and believe me, I live frugally). The teachers who do care are there for the kids. We are overpowered by incompetence, poor management, lack of supplies, and zero backup from admin. We stick around for our kids because, for some, we are the last hope they have of getting a decent education. We are few but we are trying. I guess, I am trying to say that personal attacks and demands for info from a teacher aren't the way to solve anything. I would suggest that those that are bitching, volunteer some time to DPS to mentor, read to kids, help with internships, etc instead of just being all gum flapping. At least I am there, I care and try to do my job best I can. My kids are performing at state expectations. I can't control what else goes on in any classroom other than my own. I guess that is my fault, too. I should try harder. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 694 Registered: 06-2006 |
Just a sidenote--in our building, the teachers who are doing what we need to do bitch constantly about the teachers who aren't. It should be easier to fire a teacher. I am all for the at will employment. I don't agree with everything the union does. I also wasn't in agreement with the strike as I stated long before we did strike. I would love to see everyone in it for the kids. Unfortunately that isn't the case. It's because of that that I stay with DPS, the kids deserve good teachers and I won't abandon ship because the Captain(s) are not steering right. Believe me, we have tried to figtht for the kids and get teachers out of there who aren't doing their jobs. Another teacher and myself are teaching the kids to stand up for themselves, get their parents involved (if enough parents complain to the right people...and we give them the numbers...then maybe something will get done about these teachers). Seems the majority of the folks in DPS don't care about what's good for the kids...I am one who cares and will stick with it for the sake of the kids because I know I am making a difference, the kids tell me (especially after their first semester at college). | ||
Poyidoya Member Username: Poyidoya Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2006 |
What in the world is wrong with this school district? I recently moved here from Missouri because of the potential within real estate here, but my goodness, I never dreamed any school district could be like this, or any city like this for that matter. I see all kinds of great things happening around Detroit. But then at the same time I can't go to a gas station in Detroit without people coming up to me repeatedly and asking for change. I go into stores and get glares from people because I am white. I have now been called a cracker, white trash, a honkey, and tons of other names that I didn't even know existed until I moved here. Anyway, as for the school, I was paticularly disturbed by the post from the teacher saying that during the 10 days of the count students that skipped classes and hadn't reported to school yet or even picked up their schedules yet would not be included in the count. School is in session, why is it being tolerated for students to skip classes and not report to school as expected? I know at my school things like this never would have happened, never could have happened. And the teacher said she doesn't have working phone numbers for most of her students. At my school if you did not show up as expected they began calling your home, your parents at work, your grandparents, anyone and everyone to find out where you were. If all else failed they would send the school resource officer to your house. And missing and skipping school was absolutely not tolerated. It went a little something like detention, in-school suspension, and finally out-of-school suspension, and if necessary expulsion. We had an alternative school that attempted to reach out to those students that were having trouble, but basically you played by the rules or you lost. It seems to me that everyone is at fault in some way, but poor mangement has to be the number one fault. The school board is responsible for what happens within the district, so if you have a teacher that is not effectively educating students get rid of them. If the students are not obeying the rules take care of it. Schools are run successfully all over the United States. Why can't Detroit manage to do the same? I feel for the teachers in not having necessary supplies and having horrible working conditions like no heat in the winter, that is insane. How can you expect children to pay attention and learn when they are freezing their butts off? That is just madness. But at the same time students look up to teachers and to set an example like they did by breaking the law and going on strike and delaying school is insane as well. I don't wish to lay blame on anyone, I will just say this, someone needs to figure out what in the world is going wrong and fix it or I do believe the DPS as it stands now will no longer exist in the future. How could it? I applaud the detroitteacher on here that is so dedicated to her students and is taking from her own pocket to provide things for her students. Things like homecoming are important to the educational experience as a whole. Things need to change for everyones sake, but most of all for these poor students that have to freeze in class and only get the experience of homecoming and such activities by the kindness and generosity of a few good teachers. It's a sad sad thing. And although I am a strong supporter of Detroit's future, I have to admit that there is no way I would even consider sending my children to DPS because I am an even stronger supporter of their future. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 695 Registered: 06-2006 |
Poy, welcome to the forum! I agree that it is dismal and sad. Teachers report students' names to the counselor, who in turn report them to the attendance office. I don't think we have truant officers anymore (although we did at one point). If I could get ahold of these kids, parents, grandparents, etc., I would. I have no way to contact anyone and driving to each student's house is impossible for me. I have gone to student's homes before when I couldn't contact anyone via phone and have literally been run off or told to get "off the block". I just don't do it anymore for safety issues. I hae never met most of the parents of my students as they don't attend Parent Teacher Conferences (I see MAYBE 10 parents on a good night out of 250 kids). I also agree that social activities are important for kids. Homecoming and such are probably the only real dressy up affairs many of these kids will ever attend. It's amazing to see how differently they act when they are in their finest. It is a really good time, had by all. I don't know what else to do, other than what I am already doing. It's taking it's toll on me emotionally and physically. There is only so much we can do without backup from admin and downtown. It's hard for DPS to attract and retain good teachers because of all the problems and lack of support. I fear that, in the future, all Detroit kids will be left with to educate them are the folks who can't find jobs elsewhere because they don't do their jobs in the first place. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 298 Registered: 01-2005 |
Detroitteacher: Everyone should thank you for your commitment and the effort and passion you bring to your job. Hang in there. It will pay off for at least some kids. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 696 Registered: 06-2006 |
Thanks, I do appreciate the words of support. I'm not in it for any thank-yous, I'm in it to help kids in any way I can. The thoughts of those on some Internet message board, who claim I can do more to fight for these kids, don't walk in my shoes nor do they know all the great teachers that I do that stick with it for the kids because we do see that potential in them (that often times their own parents don't see). Teachers sometimes feel like we are fighting a losing battle in trying to advocate for kids when admin doesn't give a damned. We can only fight so long and for so much before we are literally exhausted. Alot of the strike had to do with pay and benefits, yes. That way we can attract other great teachers instead of leaving the kids with the crap that would be left over if we (the ones who try) left. Those who aren't doing anything in the classroom were strikiung for selfish reasons. | ||
Poyidoya Member Username: Poyidoya Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thank goodness those kids have a few teachers like u detroitteacher. I think we all wish they could have a few more. Don't be too discouraged, those kids will remember the things you are doing for them for the rest of their lives, and even though you can only reach out to a handful out of the entire dps system, to make a difference for even just one student is awesome and must be truly rewarding. |
