Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Mixed-use community being planned east of Eastern Market « Previous Next »
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Detroitman
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Username: Detroitman

Post Number: 1006
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 2:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/marsq64.aspx
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 47
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is fantastic news I just hope the rebuild those neighborhoods around Eastern Market denser than the typical city neighborhood then it would really be something special.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1843
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never considered Poletown to be that close to Eastern Market. Anybody have the boundaries of Poletown?
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Magnasco
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Username: Magnasco

Post Number: 161
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that the Eastern Market corporation, the non-profit in charge of the Market now, is working with the City and looking at the best way to develop the entire area within a few miles of the Market.

While developing Housing is on the agenda, I think they are planning on focusing on the Market first. Also, there are some other issues like zoning and environmental that need to be tackled throughout the area.
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6978
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So you're saying, give it two or three months before they start building the homes, Magnasco?
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 943
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the non-profit that has been running eastern market did have a plan for this area it has become outdated. this is a completely new group that is working to develop this area.

this group is comprised of several different congregations in the area, a developer (one that has a long track record of development in the city), a facilitator, and the architects listed. they are still working in cooperation with the eastern market non-profit. this group is also working with full support of the city and all their departments.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1802
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mixed-use? Are they aware that Detroit is not Chicago or New York?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 226
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Odd it says mixed-use yet the only use talked about is housing.

I would think housing would do well within walking distance of EM given the proper connections. People could walk there do their shopping, hang out, harass suburbanites and tourists, ask for spare change... you know all the things we do just to annoy suburbanites and make them want to shoot us!
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 944
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

royce; for point of reference: the gm poletown plant is directly across i94 from this project. poletown used to straddle i94.

retail mentioned:

quote:

A total of nine distinct neighborhoods have been identified, and a master plan is being developed that calls for infill housing utilizing the existing street grid and a neighborhood commercial main street on Chene.


this will probably be one of the last phases to be completed, however.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2130
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is huge news. Rebuilding one of the emptiest areas of Detroit. Hopefully, with its proximity to downtown, it will move faster than the far east side rebuidling (i.e. Conner to Alter), and will not include any suburban style shopping malls.

One nearby area that is also primed to be infilled like this is the area inside a triangle bounded by Gratiot, Vernor, and Mt. Elliot.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 734
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This will really benefit the vendors at the market as well, creating lots of nearby customers making a 7-day a week market more of a reality. My guess is that it will be the same sort of infill going in around the Islandview/West Village area (English Village townhouses, new single family homes, some lofts, etc).

I really like that these new infill developments build around existing housing. Hopefully grants can be secured to fix up the old victorian homes in between the new construction. There are some diamonds in the rough in that area.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2879
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone was asking the boundary of Poletown. Well St. Stanislaw Church is in Poletown. I would assume that the southern boundary was probably Warren Ave. (or slightly farther north), and the northern boundary was the Hamtramck border. Western boundary would be I-75, and the eastern boundary is probably around Mt. Elliott.

Today when folks think Poletown, they only think of the areas north of I-94.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2880
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone was asking the boundary of Poletown. Well St. Stanislaw Church is in Poletown. I would assume that the southern boundary was probably Warren Ave. (or slightly farther north), and the northern boundary was the Hamtramck border. Western boundary would be I-75, and the eastern boundary is probably around Mt. Elliott.

Today when folks think Poletown, they only think of the areas north of I-94.
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 238
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the worst idea I have ever heard. For two reasons.


The area surrounding Chene is not the safest neighborhood and...

IT BORDERS THE INCINERATOR AND A CHEMICAL PLANT!!!


I can't wait to move in.

"Oh sweet I live near the freeway and the place where they burn garbage."


At least the new townhomes on Ferry are near the DIA and upwind of the land o' stench.

ROTFLMWAO
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2881
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, but the incinerator WILL BE CLOSED in 2009...
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1805
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The area surrounding Chene is not the safest neighborhood and...




Wouldn't *populating* the area a bit more make it safer? Usually, neighborhoods that gentrify aren't always the safest. Otherwise, there's not much of a desire to gentrify, right?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 227
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know I've heard a lot of people referencing the closing of the incinerator, but I have no knowledge of it. Can someone cite a reliable resoource that says that it will close in 2009? I would find it hard to imagine that the City would close it.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1184
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Can someone cite a reliable resoource that says that it will close in 2009? I would find it hard to imagine that the City would close it.




Because 2009 is when the bond financing for the operation of GDRRA is up.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2199
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It costs far more to run the incinerator than it does to use a landfill. It was a government boondoggle when it was opened. It has been sucking money out of our pockets since that day.

In 2009 the bonds will be paid off. Since it's so expensive to run and continues to hurt Detroit air quality, everyone believes it will be closed in 2009.

It was specifically mentioned in last years mayoral budget.

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/ma yor/speeches/2006_2007%20Budge t.htm
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 239
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gentrification is a possibility in a high crime area when you are near a desirable location, i.e.downtown. Hence why you see all of the development there.

In an area where there is no draw the possibility of gentrification being successful lessens. An example would be to look at the Landsdowne Lofts that failed miserably, off of Milwaukee, S of Grand Blvd., E of Woodward.


I would much rather buy a home near the remenants of the Cass Cooridor because you are near WSU and downtown. In Poletown you are within a driving distance of these areas but you are also within a walking distance of not so great places. Eliminate the massive trash burning facility and the various chemical plants and you may have me sold. Until then I'll stay over here in Woodbridge where I can walk across the street to WSU/DIA/South End Bars and hop on a bus to downtown...avoiding the noxious gasses and the plethora of hookers wandering around the Chene wasteland, right in front of Barbara Rose Collins' house.

I love Detroit
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 945
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow; SMHATI (shaking my head at the ignorance).

let's get something straight here: these are faith based initiatives to improve neighborhoods around parishes and schools in the area. most of the neighborhood will consist of affordable housing offering some sort of subsidy so that people can improve their quality of life. the goal isn't to gentrify, but to improve the quality of life of people in the area with the ultimate end being a diverse sustainable community.

who would want to live there? maybe the people that have been there for generations and might like a newer home. people that like the schools in the area and might want their kids to walk to school. people that have an interest in building a community. people that like their church and might want to move nearby. people that work at the dmc and would like to walk to work. people that work at pepsi and would like to walk to work. people that like the market and would like to live nearby. people that work at the federal reserve and might to live nearby. people that might like to be at the terminus of the rails to trails to the riverfront. need i go on? and i thought being close to expressways was an asset? how many neighborhoods in the burbs have their backyards facing an expressway for the convenience?

you don't like it? fine; don't move there. but it's pretty pathetic to criticize those that are actually trying to make a difference in an area that you've obviously dismissed.

what strikes me as funny is that usually the people that crticize these types of developments because of the area are usually the same people that ask why people don't do something to improve an area because it's in such bad shape.
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now this is my neighborhood and I love it. As I college student who is about to finish college next year, I want to stay in this area and raise my future family there. Many of the homes are unique, especially the ones on the blvd. Yes the neighborhood has its problem and I have seen it all, but many would be suprised at how many well off people stay in this area rather than the suburbs as they have stated to me for years.

The woman who stays three houses down from my parents commutes all the way to Yspilanti everyday to work says she is not moving.I asked her why and she said she loves her home because they don't build them like this. I also remember when they were tearing down a house next to us and when the house was halfway down, I saw newspapers that were used as some type of installation inbetween walls that dated back all the way to the Mid 20's early 30's. I tried to take a paper from the wall, but it just crumbled as it tried to get it.

When I was a child, the were many polish and German people in our area,but only maybe about 1% remain today. I live in the area about 4 blocks from chene and chene has potential. I'm looking forward to this development.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 196
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think we should ship all of our trash across the boarder to Canada. I would have thought for sure somebody would have thought of this idea in the past.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 229
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the link, now all it says is that the bonds will be paid off (I knew that) and "That review will include determining what it would cost to keep the facility up to date, what the impact would be on the landfill market if an additional 800,000 tons of waste were inserted into the market, how customers of GDRRA could continue to receive the steam heat that it now produces and other issues. We will have a recommendation by this time next year."

I'm still puzzled why folks think that it costs a lot to operate this when the bonds will be paid off and the city will own it free and clear. it makes no sense to dump an investment like this now, as now is when things are going to get cheap. What is the cost of trucking garbage to the incinerator as opposed to trucking it to some far-off landfill, just think of what the city would save in man-hours and fuel trucking that stuff alone!
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 240
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rsa...

My point was this...building houses in this area will be futile until the neighboring area has been altered; mainly demolishing the Incinerator and Chemical plants off of St. Aubin, not taking into consideration the high amount of heavy and light industrial business still in this neighborhood; Boomer Co., Hoban Foods, the City Recycling Scrap Yard, Eastern Market Beef, Kaps Meats, Pepsi, Vesco Oil, etc...

What has been done to the area so far; The New Federal Reserve Branch, New DPS Warehouse, New Intersection at Forest and Warren, New School Renovation on Forest, New Charter School where Michigan Repack used to be on Wilkins, is great. I just don't think there are enough people living in this area that can sustain a new housing development.

The houses lining St. Aubin north of Mack and South of I-94 are continuously being demoed and the remaining ones are occupied by alot of special needs cases, you see them while driving down the road.

I worked right at St. Aubin and Mack for about four years. Driving through the area regularly, and I also used to ride my bike to work since I lived in the Belcrest at the time, I got to know the neighborhood very well.

Any development in Detroit is great and I welcome it. I just hope it doesn't end up failing like those townhouses at Canfield and St. Aubin or the Landsdowne Lofts that I spoke of eariler.

Detroit Love
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 736
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bussey, light industrial seems to bother people less than you might think - look at Corktown - it's surrounded by light industrial, freeways and lies in the shadow of arguably the biggest eyesore in Detroit - and still it rebounds.

What will drive the success of this area is it's proximity to Eastern Market, Midtown and Downtown. Filling in this area will connect the east side neighborhoods of Indian Village, West Village, Islandview, etc. with the near east side. It is an excellent idea, but I don't see this coming to fruition for another 10 years, after the neighborhoods I've listed above have fully come back and downtown and midtown and the near east side has fully come back and there is demand to connect the two areas.
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that this development is going to start around Late 2007 to early 2008. My neighborhood is unique because the bus routes are many in this one area alone. You have the Grand Belt/Blvd route to Belle Isle and then going back down the other way down W. Grand Blvd. Chene routes, Mt.Elliot,Van Dyke,Harper,Crosstown/Dearborn ,Crosstown Forrest,Mack, and Gratiot to drop you off if you live in the area.

Also, I believe this is the connection to what I have seen on my fathers desk one time a year or so back and saw blue prints. My church is planning on building some affordable homes and senior citizens complex in our area. My mother was taking about it this summer. She asked me if I wanted to go down to the church and talk to the people about housing. I didn’t get a chance to make it to the meeting but I believe it is Mr. Williams at my church who is on some type of housing committee.

I saw the whole blueprint make up of the area behind Chene near the Vesco Oil Company and all they way to the incinerator for housing. I would love to see some Brownstones for that area instead of single family housing. But I will get more info from my father and Mr.Williams at my church about this to keep you all informed. But this is great for Detroit.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1847
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Affordable housing" is a term that deflates my excitement for any development. What it says is, "We're going to keep the status quo in the neighboorhood," which means low income. Instead of mixed-use, it would be nicer if the development focused on mixed-income.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1888
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I worked right at St. Aubin and Mack for about four years




Were you the night deskman at the Hotel St. Aubin? I won't tell if you don't...
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4532
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Affordable housing" can almost mean anything. Usually, it means anything that's not public housing, or over $200,000 (though that numbers really varies widely depending on where you are). I wouldn't take it to mean low-income housing, Royce. I imagine we'll see something like what's going up in North Corktown, which is nice-looking, affordable housing. The fact that they consulted with an architectural firm gives me hope that this will be something nice.
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 241
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was the guy who changed the red light bulbs.


That's one classy joint
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 322
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 2:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3420, thank you for keeping the hood alive. I am currently looking to buy a home in the area and live where my ancestor's first lived in this county and walk to my church of St. Josephate's.

That said, I want to see the old Chene- Ferry Market used again, hopfully as a farmers market.

I am aware this is a daunting task, as Eastern Market is only a short drive away, however it was once feasable, why can't it be in the future?

If the developement goes as planned in the next 5-10 years this has the potential to be an urban success story. Of coarse the area needs young folks from the suburbs to move here with money to speed the process along.

Hopefully, with the help of places like DY, we can achieve this at a faster pace, lets hear it, whose with me?!!!


Detroitej72, standing on the corner of Chene and Palmer...wanting to reopen Palmer Bakery!
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Revolutionary
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Username: Revolutionary

Post Number: 112
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bicycle throught that neighborhood most Saturdays on the way to the Eastern Market from Hamtramck and I wish I could communicate the smells coming form the industrial sites on St. Aubin.

The incenerator, on most days smells like a cross between burining plastic and rotting flesh. Further east you get the oil recycling smell which is much worse. This is a sharp acrid odor that you can taste as much as smell. If you breathe deeply it leaves you with a mild burning sensation.

I don't know if I'd classify the compaines located there as "light" industrial. I think the environmental remediation in the area might be a small hitch in the plans to build there.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 299
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is fantastic news I just hope the rebuild those neighborhoods around Eastern Market denser than the typical city neighborhood then it would really be something special.


what does this mean? you guys live on top of eachother as it is.
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember back in the early 90's, every home from the blvd. to Gratiot was pretty much there. My childhood friends parents were from Canada,Yugoslavia,German, Polish decent and a few of us African Americans. My two aunts and my family were the only two black familes on the block during those times from the late 80's up until the mid 90's where there was an increase in black population.

The famlily next to us on the left side moved to Steriling Heights, and the family to the right moved further outside the city as the neighborhood changed racially.

For years I looked out my top bedroom window with the view of the incenerator just blocks away wondering why the hell did they put that here. You do have to get use to the smell because when we use to get up in the morning for school, that smell would greet you as soon as you open the door.

I love this neighborhood for many reasons because I have seen the good and the bad, and now I'm living the Marvin Gaye "Inner City Blues" moments when I am on chene. Everytime I am on Chene getting some eggs or some veggies for my grandmother from the lil store on Chene, "Whats Going On" just keeps playing in my head.

The neighborhood is going through a change and I can testify to this. There were several meetings this summer with churches and neighbors looking to buy the boarded up Ferry School, as well as build townhomes. All this is a start, but we will have to make sure this fight will become the reality. For so long I have wanted to see those Cosby Show style brownstones I think what they are called in this area.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 737
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, there is demand in Detroit for good affordable housing. Also keep in mind that yes it is subsidized but usually after five years or so the owner can turn around and sell it for market rate and turn a profit. Affordable housing and government housing are very different. IN government housing, if you start making too much money you can be booted out. THis is not the case for affordable housing. Much of the affordable stuff goes for between 80k up to 150k. These are hardworking families with jobs - not welfare recipients.

Also, it sounds like the focus will be mixed income. When was the last time you heard of an affordable loft?

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