  Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 352 Registered: 05-2006 |
I believe that the key to revieving downtown, and Detroit as a whole lies with young folks who grew up in the "burbs". People who are longing for that 'urban living', that cannot be duplicated in Warren, Sterling Whites, B-ham, R.O., etc. I know personally several folks from Grosse Pointe who moved to the D for its city living. After all, you can take only so many "happy parades" through The Village with all the faux bells and whistels! Let's face it, folks like my parents, who are in thier late 50's, and grew up in Detroit have thier reasons for moving out. They probably will never move back to Detroit. That's a sad reality. As we move on, our hope rests with a new group of people who have never lived in Detroit, and were warned to stay away. They move to the D despite(or even in spite of warnings!), maybe first renting a house, loft, upper flat, or even buy a home. Some come for nostalgic reasons, to live where thier ancestor's first put down roots. Others are searching for "big city" living. Still other's come for cheep rent. All in all, they settle down in Detroit. This story has been played out time and time again throughout history- move here, have a family, bitch about the conditions, schools, climate, mayors, presidents, politics, even tooth decaye! That said, while we have business' like Compaware, Little Ceasers, GM, and other's headquarted here, we still need residend's to live inside Detroit. I think Detroit's future lies with young people who grew up in the suburbs and move here to live and work. As more and more move downtown for work and play, this will create a 24 hour enviorntment thus needed to sustain stores and business that are neccisary for Detroit's Downtown to survive. That said, I would welcome any feedback on this topic. Detroitej72, longtime Detroit promoter... | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 127 Registered: 09-2006 |
I completely agree that young people moving to the city are eventually going to be a key for the city's ultimate renewal, the city itself must first however take steps to improve the job market. And that should be its main objective. I know plenty of young people up here at MSU who when they graduate dont even think of Detroit as an option. This happens for alot of reasons but one main reason is because in their minds there are no jobs in Detroit. No matter how people think a place is terrible or not people will come if there are good jobs available. The fact that people are flocking to Atlanta or Phoenix is proff of that. . | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4566 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not sure I agree, and I take a complete bristling at the use of the word 'savior.' If Detroit is waiting to be 'saved' it may as well just pack everything up, move on, and call it a day. Detroit's not going anywhere until outsiders and the actual citizens, alike, move it forward. Not one or the other, alone. It may not be on purpose for a few, but there seems to be this view that there aren't people left in the city capable of bringing back their city, and thus can't be apart of the revitalization, or at least not in any significant manor. It's really an offensive Savior/Superman Complex, really. (Message edited by lmichigan on October 15, 2006) | ||
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1 Post Number: 257 Registered: 08-2006 |
I agree with the both of you LMichigan and Detroitej72, true, the folks in the suburbs are in partial fault 72, but you have to understand, they grew up in that paradise land known as the suburbs, they don't know the real thing of living an urban life, they've adapted to the life of suburbia, s they will abviously and most of time always live and survive in the suburbs. and Lmichigan. I agree with you with everything you said except the savior remark. It doesnt necessarily have to mean in a Superman/Batman complex, he could mean a person such asMayor Daily of Chicago or Mayor Rudy of NYC, or, I thought of it as being the Lord God himself, not trying to offend the atheist on this site, but yes, savior doesnt necesarily means superhero all the time, I know in reality, Detroit Detroit isnt going anywhere because were on God's thumb, however, What I do agree on is that the nay sayers aren't the ones trying to fix the problems in the city. I bet you all live in the suburbs running your big fat mouths about how people should fix problems in the city. Anyone is capable of bringing back a city, but the folks today care more bout bringing out the city in a negative way because they think its make us special, and it does makes us seem "special" all right. Everything that occurs in this day and age is now based on popularity instead of trust and intelligence, and I know no ones likes that. However, we cant get job development until we have, not very smart folks without a degree, which we do, but until we get very smart folks with a degree, to live and grow in the city, thus we can't get job development. There was something back when your parents were growing up called neighborhood watches, so the poor police service isn't a issue. Also, we ahve thid mentality now that everyone watches out for their own selves. When something not right, try to help out, not just for the recognition, but also for the just in it. Also, metro Detroiters have a speech problem, which Mayor Kilpatrick did point out before. For one, kids now, PARTICULARY, but not to single out, African-Americans, constantly call each other niggas, which is the same "old day" word spruced up by a rapper to call someone ignorant, at least I would assume. However, that is the parents problems unfortunately. Everything that occurs today is still based off the old slaves days, such as the Lynch laws, where although the folks knew we would destroy ourselves slaves or not, that they would free us. And that's whats hapening now. Plus, the only words the current generation knows now is limited to the curse words, which is definently not a good sign in terms of public representment. I would set up mandatory speech classes in a hurry for this issue. So as I said, were destroying our own city on our own because of simply segregation and the "pride and popularity" mentality, as we just don't value anything like we used to but ourselves. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 360 Registered: 06-2005 |
Detroitej72, I certainly agree with a good deal of what you are saying and it's a good topic for discussion. Detroit certainly needs to restore a mix of people and redevelop our middle-class tax base. Young people moving into the city clearly, to me, can bring a sense of vitality that sorely needs to be enhanced. However, for anyone to consider themselves or their cohort to be "saviors" of the city will be thought to be quite offensive to individuals, families, and businesses that have been here for generations. I would urge you to consider the viewpoint expressed by Lmichigan. We all have a vital stake in this process. Please do not diminish, by commission or omission, the need for all of us to have a role in Detroit. I do not believe that any "rebirth' of Detroit can occur solely by and for the young people who are moving into downtown and its extended neighborhoods. Detroit will be better, much better, when it is better for all of us. Personally, I am not looking to be saved. I am looking to be a partner in an all-inclusive effort to better Detroit for all of us. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 864 Registered: 11-2003 |
"not trying to offend the athiests" That strikes me as histerical! | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3108 Registered: 10-2003 |
The "saviors" of the City of Detroit are those who are championing, investing in and have already recreated the city [downtown to midtown at least] to the point where kids from the 'burbs and elsewhere feel comfortable to visit and maybe even settle inside the CofD. Ascribing the word saviors to those kids makes me laugh and is sure to send a bristle up the back of those folk who have done the real heavy lifting, not to mention all the kids who have grown up in the City of Detroit. The revival of the booming areas of Detroit is just as much, maybe more, about encouraging them to stay as to attracting outsiders. Both are needed Don't overlook the old folk either. They have the money to buy second homes and are looking with increased interest at the New Center to Downtown corridor because of its growing attractive entertainment and cultural attractions. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 355 Registered: 05-2006 |
Neilr, sorry if I offended anyone. I didn't mean to ignore all the survivors who have stood by Detroit all these years. I should have expressed myself in a more clear fasion. Savoir was a poor choice of words on my part. That said, I think having a bustling population living downtown is one key piece of the puzzle to help streamline the massive population loss throughout other parts of the city. Detroitej72 | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 329 Registered: 07-2004 |
Its true you need to get the younge people on board. Its important to have all groups in a city. But the younge are the ones who have a big stake in the future. The older people don't really care much because they are retired, done their work, etc. Actually I am running for city council here in Toronto and one my my priorities is getting young kids and teens involved in the city and participating. You have to get the young on board, or the city is gone. It sounds weird as everyone uses the line, The Young are our future. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 176 Registered: 11-2005 |
I am a young suburbanite and that is my plan. To move to Detroit. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 356 Registered: 05-2006 |
Rbdetsport, on behalf of Detroiter's, I say WELCOME!!! Detroitej72 | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2005 |
One of the older folks moving to the city core here. I am not a young person. I do, however, have passion and energy and significant resources to help with the city's revival. The impact of suburban empty nesters moving to the city should not be discounted. They have much more wealth than recent college graduates. That wealth and income will translate into enhanced revenues for the City. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1804 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well, first of all, the older folk haven't really done much en masse to save the city so we can pretty much assume the 'young person' part of your premise holds true. Now as for the suburbs ... I don't think that young people from the suburbs are doing much more than their parents to save the city. They are followers. The people who are, and will, make a difference in the city are those who are from other cities, have lived in other cities, or have travelled extensively in other cities. Detroit area lifers - generally speaking - lack the vision or even the awareness of what a downtown can or should be. Just my opinion. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4494 Registered: 09-2005 |
As an outsider and a voice of one, I would not consider moving back into Detroit until I saw a leader "clean up" crime in the city on the order of Rudy Guliani. Only then would I feel that an investment in property downtown would return principal and at least a tiny appreciation. This is the minimum expectation in nearly every suburb, and such should be the goal of the city. I'm not running down the city - only saying that I've not felt that leadership rising out of the ashes (yes, ashes) of the tragic '60's and devastating Young years. If folks feel safe and that their kids will get a great education, and there's value for the money, they'll come in droves - just like they left in droves for the same reasons. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 48 Registered: 09-2006 |
Karl,understand your concerns, they are valid, but believe it or not they are those of us who have invested in the city and done well, I lived in lafayette park and made a 70% profile in 9 years. Moved to Huntington Woods for 3years, did ok,,, and moved back downtown last year as I missed the environment. My story is not unique, most of my friends who sold in the last 3 years all made a very good return downtown, like anywhere if you invest in a solid neighbor hood and participate in it, you might just do fine,,Education is a problem definetly, you either send to a private school, or put up with the exisitng system..But, most of the people who are moving in downtown are single, childless , or even some older ones whose kids grew up and have moved down as they "always wanted to live downtown" .. yes we have had 3 couples in the last 2 years who did exactly that, There is a base that exists, | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 49 Registered: 09-2006 |
Dial4,, you should be made aware that there is a very large contingent in Lafayette Park who have lived there for 15 plus years and have worked very hard to keep the city going To say "Detroit area lifers - generally speaking - lack the vision or even the awareness of what a downtown can or should be. " is enormously unfair to these people,, When it wasnt cool for young people to start moving downtown these were the people who put up with a very large amount of crime, poor administration and no development activity and poor property appreciation yet still stayed, sat on committes, gave their visions to a uninterested administration and keep their areas immaculate,,, Many Many of them still live in these areas and are as devoted as ever, I wonder how many of the new residents in 15 years will still be here fighting for Detroit,,, should be interesting,, | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1806 Registered: 11-2004 |
To clarify, Detroitbill, I'm talking about the people that are doing more than living downtown. Not to dismiss that. I mean the people who are changing what downtown is. And mostly I am referring to the suburban folks who are "rediscovering" the city ... they tend to not bring much in terms of an urban sensibility to anything. And therefore, aren't doing much to change things in the city. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 381 Registered: 12-2005 |
Karl, the crime rate in Downtown Detroit is lower than the national average. Never once have I felt unsafe downtown. Denis Archer was a leader of the type that you speak of, unfortunately we now have a complete boob in office. In response to your stipulation, why must you wait for someone else to effect the changes that you want to see done, why not try to bring them about yourself? | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 135 Registered: 10-2005 |
I don't disagree with the premise that older suburban people have not done much yet. Things are changing. Who do you think are going to be buying those 67 condos at the B-C and all those new expensive lofts at the Elliott Building? It won't be young people; they do not yet have the resources. 1001 Woodward and all the planned developments on the RiverWalk will be sold to the same demographic, primarily older and wealthier people. | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 118 Registered: 08-2006 |
A couple points. At Riverfront Towers there are a lot of empty nesters buying condo's (the over 60 crowd), so they are playing a role. Secondly, I think alot of young people are being priced out of downtown that would otherwise want to live there. Most of the places that seem to be for sale are in excess of 200K. Is someone just out of college going to be able to plunk down that much dough? I think the people who are moving in are in their late 20's to mid 30's. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2167 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree, Tndetroiter. Karl says that he wouldn't buy anything downtown, but he seems to forget that this IS where crime is much less of a problem (lower than the average for the area), and this IS where places to live are in demand. Therefore, he has no logic. No one can disagree with the public schooling issue, although I'm of the mindset that all public schools everywhere are on their way into the shitter over the next couple decades, and this is one reason that charter schools ought to be fostered. Detroit schools can only get better if there becomes a critical mass of new taxpayers and parents who take a more vested interest in their child's school. I don't expect very many older Detroit suburbanites to be in on this rebirth of city living. They represent the single generation that sold out on the city more than any other one. Those that are 60-90 y.o. now moved themselves out of the city, or those who are 45-65 now were the first major generation born in the suburbs (during the baby boom). This is not who I would rely on or who I would spend money on trying to market my downtown project. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 4495 Registered: 09-2005 |
Detroitbill & others, the crime rate downtown has always been below the national average - during the years when Detroit was the "murder capital" studies were done that showed that even during that era, Detroit was very safe downtown. I recall one study when murders were at their highest that showed most were committed in the "fringe" - that half-circle around downtown that changes from commercial to residential. So I presume that downtown Detroit can thrive like any other city - if it can thrive without the "fringe" from where the middle class has fled. If those masses of folks are essential to the ultimate success of downtown, there is still a huge impediment. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2005 |
Stecks77, The problem with people in their late 20s/early 30s is that they are in the prime professional baby making stage of life. So the "cool" young, suburban couple who buy a loft/condo or even old house in Detroit love it until they start making babies and then it's back off to the suburbs with its perceived safety and better schools. That's one reason why the empty nester should not be discounted. They are less likely to have major life changes come up which dramatically alter their residential desires. | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 119 Registered: 08-2006 |
The only problem with the empty nesters is that they don't spend money like water. The real queston mark in all of this development going on is what happens when all the tax abatements cease to exist for those people buying now? | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2005 |
You're right about the tax abatement issue. The City will have to address the issue. The prospect of an incredible rise in your property taxes will very quickly kill the value of your home. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 530 Registered: 02-2006 |
Crime is certainly an issue, but it is more about perception of crime. For instance, just last night, a man was stabbed with a screwdriver right on State Street in Chicago. Will you hear widespread outrage about the state of crime in Chicago? Will people sell their South Loop and River North condos en masse? Not a chance. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 105 Registered: 11-2005 |
I believe that the key to revieving downtown, and Detroit as a whole lies with young folks who grew up in the "burbs". People who are longing for that 'urban living', that cannot be duplicated in Warren, Sterling Whites, B-ham, R.O., etc. I agree 110%. Count me among them. I'm 26 and grew up in the 'burbs (Farmington Hills and Milford, represent!) and absolutely hated it. Still do. It's a tough love, but I'm, like, totally retarded for this place. If I could afford a Book-Caddy spot or to do what the DYers are doing with the Vinton, I would. Curse me and my meager newspaper salary! I shoulda been a doctor. Oh well, there's always Keno at the Anchor. | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 485 Registered: 07-2004 |
Downtown needs more hot young girls. It's as simple as that. All else will follow. It'd be like ladies' night every night. | ||
Brandon48202 Member Username: Brandon48202 Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2004 |
I second Spitty!! | ||
Cletus Member Username: Cletus Post Number: 1317 Registered: 01-2004 |
I thank God every day for Subway's investment in Detroit. Those sandwich shops convinced me to move back town and several of my friends say the same. Subway is Detroit's savior. Don't ever forget that! | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 267 Registered: 04-2006 |
Cletus, Subways in Detroit??? How do I get to them? Can I take one to the zoo? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8014 Registered: 10-2003 |
You can take one wherever you want. Just have to order them to go. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2168 Registered: 02-2005 |
Spitty: well said. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2005 |
Spitty, Total agreement on that one from this middle aged soon to be divorced guy. I, personally, would also love to see more hot 40 year old women downtown also. Docmo | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 424 Registered: 02-2006 |
Docmo, don't take your divorce so hard. Keep your chin up. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2005 |
Thnk2mch, Thanks. I'm doing fine and I am very much looking forward to living in the CBD. More hot women downtown would help, though. Docmo | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 427 Registered: 02-2006 |
 | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 555 Registered: 11-2005 |
The hot chicks will be looking for hot dudes though, so where does that leave you guys? | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 428 Registered: 02-2006 |
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 816 Registered: 01-2004 |
This is the best idea that I've ever heard, you should run for mayor. I hope the fiance doesn't read this lol. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 748 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yea Lowell, as a suburbanite who moved here in 83, there is a bit of a bristle moving up my back. But the truth is we need the youngens, the empty nesters, and anyone else prepared to make a real commitment. There was a time that I wanted to lecture the kids about respecting those who came before. Now I am just happy to welcome them. The More the Merrier say I. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1807 Registered: 11-2004 |
Amen! | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 123 Registered: 08-2006 |
Some Model D statistics. http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/downtown66.aspx "The survey of more than 180 new downtown residents found a group that is young (57% of respondents were between 25-34), highly educated (83% had at least a bachelor's degree), and relatively wealthy (72% of new residents in the survey had an annual household income of at least $50,000 per year)." | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 125 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroit Residential Market Study by Katherine Beebe & Associates. http://www.detroitrenaissance. com/newsletter/market_study.ht m A complete pdf download of the full report: http://www.detinvfund.com/Repo rtFinal_0601005.pdf | ||
Keith Member Username: Keith Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Yea Lowell, as a suburbanite who moved here in 83, there is a bit of a bristle moving up my back. But the truth is we need the youngens, the empty nesters, and anyone else prepared to make a real commitment. There was a time that I wanted to lecture the kids about respecting those who came before. Now I am just happy to welcome them. The More the Merrier say I." - Histeric I agree Histeric. The enthusiasm that younger folks bring to the city is very positive and to be commended. There is however a natural tendency to think we were the first ones to think of living in the city. There have been dedicated "downtowners" since I can remember. Having moved to the Lafayette Park area in the middle 60's, I remember there were always many many urban dwelling middle class folks with a choice who made Detroit their home and stuck it out through thick and thin. There were, since the sixties and probably before, many folks who made the Cass Corridor " Mid Town" area a unique urban area that would appeal to those now choosing to reside who continue to add their touch for future residents. My only point is that what we see today is a continuation of the contributions made by those before and the efforts of those now coming to the city regardless of age will lay the groundwork and help form the character of the city for future reidents. I do think that those of us of a certain age who chose to live in Detroit in the 60-70-80's were sort of outside the mainstream. What is encourageing now is that it has become trendy for younger people to live in the city where as before it was "fuc$ing crazy".This will help to reach a critical mass to accelerate positive change that will increase the tax base and improve life for all Detroit residents. ....just a rather rambling sense of perspective from one long time resident. Welcome to all ! ! ! ! Cheers, Keith | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4571 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great post, Keith, and what was really what I was trying to get at. I think many too often believe that there wasn't a downtown Detroit before this current batch of new residents moved in, and that couldn't be further from the truth. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 881 Registered: 11-2003 |
Docmo, if you are looking for hot girls, Downtown will be a savior for you........and you are going to make a great neighbor..... | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2005 |
Gambling----LOL. Move in looks likely for Nov. 7th. See you then. | ||
Lcr Member Username: Lcr Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2006 |
I totally agree that the younger generation is the future of Detroit. i grew up in Detroit and I love it. I currently attend college in East Lansing but I'm in my last year and when I graduate I plan on moving back. However it's sad that other people do not feel the same way that we do. That is why i started the thread "Let's take pride in our city and maybe other people will". It seems that some people in Detroit likes to spread negativity about the city..which is already overdone by the media. That's why in my posting I urged people to go to www.bestplaces.net and leave positive feedback about the city. There is already enough people putting it down so why not let people know that its not all bad. If we want Detroit to grow and not lose 100,000 people a year we must really stop scaring people away from the city. And let's not stop at www.bestplaces.net. Leave positive feedback at every site or just tell people from other places. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4577 Registered: 10-2003 |
Correction, it's 10,000 people a year loss. Still far too much. 100,000 a year would leave the city empty by 2009-2010. |
