  Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8031 Registered: 10-2003 |
No lucky number there. That is the amount of trash that was picked downtown after the WS games. And I always thought that sports facs were so respectful of the city and city residents are the only ones that trash the city. Show a little f'in respect Tigers fans. 7000 pounds of trash is ridiculous. Maybe we can get our local news channels to do one of their exposes on people coming from other cities and throwing their shit all over downtown. Bear in mind that 7000 pounds is only downtown. That doesn' cover anything North of 75 or outlying communities. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2264 Registered: 10-2003 |
How much was picked up on a normal day? How much of it was left over from a normal day? It's only a lot if this is a huge increase over a normal day. This number means nothing without a comparison to a normal day or a typical sports day. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8032 Registered: 10-2003 |
The downtown was cleaned before the games so there was a minimal amount of trash. Sure some may have blown in downtown but the assumption can be that some also was blown out of downtown. Do you honestly believe that 7000 pounds of trash on the streets is an amount that can be debated as a normal weekend? (Message edited by jt1 on October 24, 2006) | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2265 Registered: 10-2003 |
Compared to what. 7000 pounds could be a typical day downtown. You provide no reference at all to tell us whether this is an increase of just a typical day. How much gets picked up on a parade day? How much gets picked up after the Jazz Fest? The number means nothing if there isn't some sort of number to compare it to. Considering we in America toss out over 4 pounds of trash per day per person, 7000 pounds seams like a drop in the bucket. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8033 Registered: 10-2003 |
I realize that there isn't a quantitative point of reference but 7000 pounds in a 3 square mile area is absurd. Add in the fact that I was out all weekend and saw the atypical amount of trash it is safe to say that there was a ridiculous amount. The amount the average person throws out a day is irrelevant. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10785 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, I do. 7,000 lbs, I would venture to guess that the number INCLUDES trash from the trash cans that were likely overflowing with trash. Who's to say that 6,500 lbs of that trash was in fact disposed of in the proper recepticle? I take notice of the trash cans all down Grand River between my home and downtown, you'd be amazed how quickly they are filled to the top and the extra begins blowing in the streets. Lastly, do you work for some out of town media source or what? Who gives a shit if they picked up 7,000 lbs of trash even if it was off the streets and not in trash cans? Some people stop at nothing to rain on a parade. Any event entails trash, large or small. You act as if downtown was completely trashed after the 2 World Series games, when the fact is it looked just as good as ever. Lastly, has anybody checked into the possibility that Candada was dumping trash on our streets during the event? Those Canadians are sneaky bastards! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8034 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sport - You missed my point entirely. I was not raining on anyone's parade. I was commenting on the lack of decency that way too many sports fans have towards downtown. I see it during tailgates, I see it after games and I certainly saw it this weekend. The weekend went great but people that come downtown for games (or live in the city) need to realize that downtown and the surrounding area is many people's neighborhoods and that it is not acceptable to throw their shit everywhere. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2266 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well all those people who came downtown that day threw out part of their days allotment. It makes it very relevant. You also didn't say where this garbage was picked up from. Was it swept off the streets or did this include the emptying of cans? Was this a contractors estimate or a guestimate done by the city. ( the city estimated millions of people attended the DEMF festivals, only to find it was in the thousands once they started collecting tickets.) 7000 pounds isn't even close to a 1/4 garbage truck load. The 7000 pound number means nothing without comparisons and the data collection method. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1261 Registered: 04-2005 |
Wait until the ticker tape parade. 70,000 lbs will be my guess. 7k lbs of trash is not that much. I would venture to say its about the size of 3 cars. Maybe 1 dumptruck load. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8035 Registered: 10-2003 |
Daily allotment takes household products and other larger items associated with work/preparing food around the household. Throwing trash on the ground is not nearly the same topic, nor same numbers as trash that is produced throughout a normal day. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8036 Registered: 10-2003 |
N - I saw it in the print Freep so I don';t have the details of where the number came from. Can't find it on the online version of the Freep. It was a blurb in the notes. The simple fact of the matter is I am asking that sports fans show a little more respect for the city when they are in town. Walk around your neighborhood after Lions games and tell me that the trash left behind is not absolute bullshit and complete disrespect for where you live. Nothing less, nothing more. My bad if I expect people to treat my community with an iota of respect. (Message edited by jt1 on October 24, 2006) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10786 Registered: 10-2003 |
Did you go to the Jazzfest? By night's end the streets were littered with trash everywhere, an event that probably consists of minimum 50% Detroiters. Every weekend on Belle Isle gets pretty trashed, which is mostly due to Detroiters. It's a fact of life, it's a big event thing, you get a lot of people in public for a big event and you can expect a lot of trash. For the record, I got a dumpster a few years ago while tearing down an old garage. Now granted, it was about 6 feet tall and 18 foot long, but I filled it with 14,000 of construction materials (trash). So 7,000 lbs is not really all that much. | ||
Valkyrias Member Username: Valkyrias Post Number: 361 Registered: 02-2005 |
why not be happy that they picked all the sh*t up...? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8038 Registered: 10-2003 |
Good point. Part of the issue is that I believe the boundaries they stop at are downtown. Too bad if you live outside of there. Good point all the same.
Construction materials and plastic cups/food wrappers are not nearly the same when considering density and volume of garbage by weight. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 950 Registered: 10-2003 |
jt1, i don't think anybody here disagrees with your belief that visitors should treat the downtown with a little more respect. however, i believe that what their countering with is asking for perspective. this perspective could show that it's not that much garbage, people were diligent in throwing garbage away in it's proper place, and how bad it was compared to other events. i think there is more information needed to deem that people were being disrespectful. your last statement makes me think of the old brain teaser: which weighs more: a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8039 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree completely and probably should have been clearing. Now as for this:
The question isn't weight but density and volume. We can all agree that 5 pounds of McDonalds wrappers are a much bigger mess than a 5 pound 2x4. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2267 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually no. Paper is much denser than a pine 2x4. 5 pounds of paper is much smaller in volume than 5 pounds of 2x4. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8041 Registered: 10-2003 |
Who said anything about pine? I saiMcDonalds wrappers and we did not discuss the type of wood. You are also considering that the paper would be flattened which is very atypical of garbage that is blowing around downtown. Also I stated
When speaking about non-compressed trash the volume of 5 pounds of McDonals wrappers fills more volme than a 5 pounds 2x4. Compressed trash is different but I am speaking about trash that is out on the street and the mess that it makes. You missed a few variables in the discussion. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8042 Registered: 10-2003 |
From: http://www.mcdonalds.com/corp/ values/purchasing/packaging.ht ml About the contect of McDonalds containers. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2268 Registered: 10-2003 |
99% of 2x4's are pine. You said it was
Since density is tied to the volume a product would take up. My assertion is 5 pounds of paper could take up less space than 5 pounds of 2x4. I was just pointing out that wax covered paper is denser than a pine 2x4. Your blanket statements are completely useless and should be called out for what they are. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8043 Registered: 10-2003 |
Funny how you choose to ignore the part of the argument that is pertinent. You are talking about the compressed volume of trash wrappers (comparing it to paper in a stacked form). 5 pounds of uncompressed McDonalds wrappers are a larger volume of trash blowing around and a much greater mess than a 2x4. If you want to speak about useless statements it is you who is comparing volumes of stacked pressed paper to garbage. Much different volumes. When they are compressed you are correct. When they are uncompressed you are incorrect. You are also making assumptions about the materials of wrappers (not the same density as paper) and decided that pine is rthe only wood out there. Even if 99% of 2X4s are pine there are different types and different densities of pine. Your zeal to be right and your incorrect assumptions should be called out unless you want to comntinue arguing that 5 pounds of uncompressed McDonalds wrappers take up less volume than a 5 pound 2x4. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8044 Registered: 10-2003 |
Different densities of pine: Wood - seasoned & dry kg/cu.m Pine ( Oregon ) 530 Pine ( Parana ) 560 Pine ( Canadian ) 350 - 560 Pine ( Red ) 370 - 660 Now will we also consider if the 2x4 was sealed. Due to the inclement weather an unsealed piece of wood would be a bit heavier dude to absorbing some water. Lot's of variables that you are not considering. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2269 Registered: 10-2003 |
How about a chipped 2x4. If I chipped that 2x4 it could take up far more space than those mcdonalds wrappers. once again you didn't frame the question well enough | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8045 Registered: 10-2003 |
A chipped 2x4 would cease to be a 2x4 if it is chipped into smaller pieces unless it was sliced into thinner 2x4 pieces. I do not believe that would qualify as chipped. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2270 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well at what time does the McDonalds wrapper stop being a Mcdonalds wrapper and just become dirt? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8046 Registered: 10-2003 |
If we are moving into the philosophical debate my response would be "What McDonalds wrapper" | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 832 Registered: 12-2005 |
Some communities use the amount of trash generated as a measure of the success of the event. I think New Orleans does (or did) that after Mardi Gras. In other words, maybe 3½ tons of trash could be considered a better thing than only 2 tons. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8047 Registered: 10-2003 |
Interesting perspective. I would have never thought of that. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10787 Registered: 10-2003 |
For the sake of argument, let's say it's balsa wood.  | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8048 Registered: 10-2003 |
I suspect that it was just a case of NDavies and I amusing oursleves at the expense of the forum. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 634 Registered: 10-2003 |
are you guys serious? YOu have nothing better to do than argue about this? Be glad the 7,000 lbs. was picked up and not left to blow around everywhere. A lot of Americans are just spoiled, selfish, careless slobs. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8049 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sometimes life at a desk can get boring. We have to find ways to amuse ourselves. This was a nice get waway from work for a few minutes. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3982 Registered: 10-2003 |
Awwww! Just when it was getting fun. I guess I'll sharpen pencils for the rest of the day. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8925 Registered: 10-2003 |
Does the city put out extra garbage bins for events like these? I have never seen extra bins for Lion's or Wing's games but if there is a lot of garbage being left around maybe the city should if they do not already (or maybe add more). | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2271 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually Goat, for things like the suberbowl, they removed the trash cans. Trash cans are a security risk. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8928 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks NDavies. At least the trash was picked up, that at least is a positive. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2849 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lowell: please delete this thread. Thank you. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3159 Registered: 10-2003 |
No way Rustic. I join others in observing the inner meaning of the amount of trash, beyond people being disrespectful slobs. When we have problems like this, lack of convenient parking is another recent whine, it a back-handed indicator of our growing success. How many hundreds of thousand of dollars of money spent in the city does that trash represent? And since it is the tip of the iceberg since most people do dispose of their trash, how many jobs does that expenditure represent? Nobody likes problems but if we are going to have them, isn't it nice that they are success generated as opposed to having empty streets and closed businesses with trash blowing around that no one sees? | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2851 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lowell, okay fine, at least I tried ... let this thread be the forum equivalent of plastic shopping bags snared in cyclone fencing offa the freeway ... one man's trash is another man's sign of life ... LOL! how's about ya combine this thread with ltrovia's senior thesis thread(s) ... at what point in a wood chipper does a 2x4 cease being a 2x4? ... what is the urban/environmental impact of McDonalds take out wrappers versus sitdown restaurant sewage waste?? ... who pisses in ndavies coffee every morning??? ... inquiring minds in the ivy(equivalent) tower want to know! | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 487 Registered: 07-2004 |
DId Jt1 and Ndavies used to date each other? Did they ever say that it was litter? Litter and trash are different. Litter is bad, trash is f'ing cool. I'd like to see how many lbs. of aluminum were cashed in at Detroit stores that were purchased outside the city and then used to further fuel the economy by being cashed in and used to purchase cheap alcohol. Also, maybe the 7000 lbs of trash was actually just a stolen car that was abandoned. One man's trash is another's treasure. I picked up 230 lbs of trash myself from Hockeytown over the weekend, but don't tell her I called her that. The number of years that you are married has a direct corrolation to how soon you will die. Statistics can be manipulated to seem like they say a lot of crap. just my 14 cents... | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 684 Registered: 12-2003 |
7000 pounds for a weekend? Is this a big deal? Lets assume it was ALL due to Tigers fans, say 40,000 of them. 7000lbs/40000people = .175 lbs/person .175lbs/pers. x 16oz/lb = 2.8 ounces of trash per person Somehow I fail to realize how this is a big deal. |
