  Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d Post Number: 61 Registered: 08-2006 |
Hello all, A native Detroiter and friend of mine took me out on a very insightful tour of Detroit. Very interesting and I definitely got to see some neighborhoods of Detroit I never knew about. But one thing especially struck me during yesterday's tour was the overwhelming presence of Liquor/Party stores in ALL of Detroit, West and East side (probably more so on the East side? correct me if I'm wrong). First off, how successful are these businesses? Secondly, how devastating are they for the neighborhoods? Do you think the city has to issue some decree that would limit the presence of this kind of stores in some areas? My friend was telling me how these stores are a cause of severe alcoholism. Their overwhelming presence eases the access to alcohol in every single part of the city. In some neighboorhoods (don't ask for names!), the only stores and/or businesses present within a 2 mile radius would be liquor/party sotres! Do you think a ban such as the one in DC, where you cannot buy liquor in stores (not as severe but something sharing the same purposes) would benefit Detroit? Are these stores also subject to some security standards? Some stores are literally a 'hole', dug into abandoned buildings or concrete! I do have some pictures, but I took them off my disposable camera ;-( I forogt to take my digicam this day. Thanks for your insights and your thoughts about the overwhelming presence of liquor/party stores in Detroi, their presence, and role in shaping Detroit's neighborhoods... | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 143 Registered: 05-2006 |
Stores cause alcoholism? Guess I better stop shopping. That's like saying fast food places cause obesity. They all contribute, but it comes down to the individual and their choices and responsibilities. I'd rather have a drunk walk down the block to get his/her fix rather than get in a car and drive drunk, endangering other people, to get their fix. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 857 Registered: 11-2003 |
There is already a freeze imposed by the Mayor which does not allow any new liqour licenses for new stores in the city. These stores make a decent amount of money after you factor in shrink (theft etc..) as they mark up items more grocery stores most of the time. On 7mile between 75 and Dequindre there are like 3 which is like only 10 blocks wide. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2848 Registered: 10-2003 |
Detroit has always been a fairly wide open town when it comes to booze (and other vices). IMO this is due to the fact that Detroit is at its roots a sleazy border town that happened to grow up into something much much greater. In addition Michigan's hard liquor laws are VERY laid back compared to many other states (and not just blue law states in the NE and South but even c/w neighboring states like OH and WI). This allows for the large number of party stores. (BTW, the suburbs are hardly lacking for party stores either.) One other thing: "In some neighboorhoods ... the only stores and/or businesses present within a 2 mile radius would be liquor/party sotres!" is highly inaccurate. In fact I'd be suprised if nowadays you could find even a 1/2 mile radius circle of populated Detroit without a couple of chain pharmacies and a handful of those elaborate convenience store/gas stations among the retail. (Hey I'm not saying things are rosy for Detroit shoppers, but _2_ mile radius with only party stores?! ... come on ... ) | ||
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d Post Number: 62 Registered: 08-2006 |
Wash man, of course I am not saying these stores cause alcoholism, but their prevalence in the city and overwhelming presence in difficult neighboorhoods facilitates the abuse, use and purchase of alcohol. Anyways, thanks to all for the insights. Rustic, I was inaccurate stating "2 mile radius", but sometimes, their presence was so overwhelming.... and they overshadowed other stores. It's just sad to see a lot of people in front of these stores with boose, cashing their work checks and getting ripped off with the fees. My vision is proably inaccurate and/or biased, but I really see some of these stores as very sad and a probably bad indicator of the state of some of Detroit's neighboorhoods and social fabric. When did the Mayor forbid the opening of new liquor stores? | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 858 Registered: 11-2003 |
As taken from the city website http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/ma yor/releases/2003%20Releases/C rackdown%20on%20Liquor%20Store s.htm FOR RELEASE: December 10, 2003 MAYOR LAUNCHES CRACKDOWN ON LIQUOR & BEER/WINE STORES Calls to ban stores within quarter mile of schools Bans new neighborhood liquor & beer/wine stores Requests moratorium on license transfers/extensions Detroit Police increase sting operations and education Building inspectors sweep City and cite sign/code violations Stores in violation could be forced to close | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 73 Registered: 10-2006 |
Nothing unique about liquor stores and the underclasses, no matter what color. Everywhere in California it's like that. Go to any large city in the US and you'll find it. Get them into the middle class, somehow, the problem ceases. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1214 Registered: 11-2003 |
No, we just buy our liquor at nicer places. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1637 Registered: 10-2004 |
Those Chaldeans (owners of over 90% of those Detroit beer depots) sure know how to make a buck... | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 113 Registered: 08-2006 |
They sell cigarettes at every convenience store and most gas stations. Does this marketing force people to smoke as well? Its all about choices. Like the one poster stated that they also sell fast food, chips, sodas, etc. We are supposed to prohibit products because a small fraction "chooses" to indulge and punish the rest of the population? I have heard this one before, about so many liquor stores being in "certain" sides or parts of town. That's just another excuse. Sorry, this cuts no mustard here. Thanks, Jane.... | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2006 |
"No, we just buy our liquor at nicer places." That's true, but the entire retail isn't just liquor stores in middle class neighborhoods. That's what the problem is, no one else will go and do business there. Getting them into the middle class is the answer. But without skills that's gonna be damn near impossible. And not just a liberal arts degree, all that does is cause the degreed workforce at Starbucks and Barnes and Nobles to go up. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3947 Registered: 11-2004 |
I just got back from Milwaukee and want to talk about a town that has alcohol all over? I remember going through older neighborhoods there and there are BARS across the street from elementary schools. I've also heard that Milwaukee also has the highest rate of alcoholism for a major city (unconfirmed but was told to me by my Milwaukee hosts). What correlation it has to do with how much alcohol is being seen with bars, party stores, billboards, sponsored events, mass media, etc. is unknown to me, but I figured I'd bring up the point of Milwaukee and its alliance with alcohol. | ||
Crash_nyc Member Username: Crash_nyc Post Number: 659 Registered: 08-2004 |
Here's a rundown of New York City's alliance with alcohol: Bars are open 'til 4:AM (much later, if you know where to go) Beer is sold over-the-counter 24/7 in most delis and bodegas (one on every other street corner in NYC) -- EXCEPT for Sunday mornings, when take-out beer sales are prohibited from 3:AM>8:AM. You'll never find beer, liquor & wine sold in the same place in New York. Liquor & wine are sold in specialty stores only (and there are plenty of them). Until recently, these stores were required by law to remain closed on Sundays. That law was just changed though, stating that these stores can stay open on Sundays, just as long as they agree to close on one other day of the week (most choose Monday or Tuesday). My former career was working in bars & clubs (in many differeny capacacities), and I have plenty of experience in both Detroit and NYC. I have to say that a 4:AM closing law is much better than a 2:AM closing. In Detroit, I noticed a lot of people binge-drinking to the max between 1:30 & 1:45AM (LAST CALL!!), walking out completely cross-eyed at 2:AM, and getting into their cars. One of the bars I used to work at in Rivertown in the 90's used to have to hire additional bouncers to come in just to clear out their capacity-crowd at 2:AM. In contrast, while many of my NYC haunts had similar wall-to-wall crowds at 2:AM on a weekend night, the crowd seemed to trickle out to the point that we were just clearing out maybe 10 or 20 people at 4:AM (as opposed to the 200-person drunken cattle-drive at 2:AM in Detroit). Granted, the majority of people leaving bars in NYC on any given night are not driving home (thank god for 40,000 taxis & the subway!), but the ones who are, have a chance to pull their heads together a bit for an hour or two before closing time, drink some water, and decide if they're in any condition to drive. It's a much more chilled-out process, and allows for a bit of rational thought before the boot-to-the-street. Sure, NYC has it's fair share of alcoholics and/or people who will suck down every last drop at the bar until the 4:AM mark, but all of this begs the question: Which is the greater evil: restriction, or open-access? Based on everything I've seen, I'll side with open-access. I've also spent some time in Europe, and the track record of drug policies in The Netherlands is more than enough justification for this argument. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2006 |
Last call for alcohol, drink it up. |
