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Detroitman
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Post Number: 1015
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Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 3:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit church to be reborn as a mosque

Kim Kozlowski / The Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20061027/L IFESTYLE04/610270380/1003/METR O
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Taj920
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Post Number: 142
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Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 7:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to the Archdiocese's plan, Our Lady Help of Christians was supposed to cluster with Transfiguration. I guess clustering means closing.
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Janesback
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Post Number: 114
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Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wasnt there a song from the 60s that went something like

" my , the world is a changing"

I think it was a Bob Dylan tune. Kind of applies to the world today. I think the change for this structure could be considered " dramatic"
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Rustic
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Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is teriffic news.

It shows that the new immigrants are willing to invest in the area and put down roots rather than simply use the neighborhood as a preliminary destination before moving out to greener pastures. (Who knows? Perhaps the neighborhood will grow into and remain a viable south asian community for more than just the generation or two so it was a big viable polish community.)

Further the reuse of religious institutions as religious institutions keeps other nonresidential properties in the neighborhood in the tax base and available for commercial use (unlike storefront churches or new megachurches that wipe out whole commerical strips) and keeps the sensible zoning of the neighborhood intact.

Great news.
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Janesback
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Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let the Amish have the former church. I learned alot about what "forgiveness is, and turning the other cheek was all about last month in lieu of the killings of the 6 Amish students in the one room school house....

I truly think that is what religion is about.....forgiveness and love. Thanks, Jane
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Jams
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Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Moorish Spain was quite enlightened in allowing Christianity and Judaism to be practised under it's rule, to the point of allowing Churches to be established in parts of mosques to allow Christians to practice their religion.
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Toledolaw05
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Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prison chapel turned into mosque

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag es/live/articles/news/news.htm l?in_article_id=412596&in_page _id=1770

A Christian chapel at Britain's largest jail is to be turned into a Mosque, it emerged last night.

The Prison Service has responded by closing the Anglican chapel and telling Church of England convicts they must share with Roman Catholics.

In a move likely to cost tens of thousands of pounds, the extra space will be used to expand the existing Mosque, Prisons Minister Gerry Sutcliffe said.

This is despite the prison having 800 CofE and Roman Catholic inmates, compared to 265 Muslims.
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Mama_jackson
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope that all of the Cathlic icons and stained glass will be removed and reused. I think it's a mixed blessing. It's good that the church will be used for worship, but it's sad it's not going to be Catholic anymore. Sad news, indeed.
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Waiting for first inappropriate, xenophobic comment...lol

Reuse in almost any form is something I love to see in the city, and what better use is there for reusing a religious structure for another house of worship?
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Buddyinrichmond
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You must have missed the earlier 50+ thread before it was cleaned up.
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it's pathetic to see people who obviously walked away from a vibrant neighborhood and parish for the sterility of metro sterling hts. complaining that somebody else wants to use it... Kind of like complaining when you put old furniture out for the garbageman and see someone happily loading it into their truck.
A community needs new blood to stay alive, whether it's the children/grandchildren of the original residents or new immigrants...It's fortunate that somebody wants to invest in the area, and I wonder how many of those who are complaining still live/work/invest in the neighborhood.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still don't care what any of you think, the Archdiocese selling this Church building to any group from another religion, especially the Muslims, is offensive.
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Rustic
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

see how nicely Mr. Lowell adaptively reuses problematic threads instead of abandoning them into neglect and eventual ruin ... Yay DetroitYES!
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Jt1
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I still don't care what any of you think, the Archdiocese selling this Church building to any group from another religion, especially the Muslims, is offensive.




The AD leaving many churches abondoned is a heck of a lot more offensive to the people in the neighborhood.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd rather see the place turned into a strip club than be used by another religion.
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Jt1
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sweet, more strip clubs in the neighborhood. Just waht the city and the families in the city need. Seems like a pretty compassionate stance to take.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not about compassion, nobody in this instance is being put into a situation where compassion is needed, it's about not subverting what I and many Catholics feel is the truth.
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps, it's actually a bad idea to reuse it for religious purposes seeing as how intolerant most of you are judging by that last response. lol Perhaps, it should be made into a porno theater just out of spite for folks like you, since too many so-called "persons of faith" seem to love to deal in spite and intolerance of far too many things.

(Message edited by lmichigan on October 28, 2006)
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Pam
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

it's actually a bad idea to reuse it for religious purposes seeing as how intolerant most of you are judging by that last response




The original thread had mostly tolerant responses.
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Jt1
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

It's not about compassion, nobody in this instance is being put into a situation where compassion is needed, it's about not subverting what I and many Catholics feel is the truth.




My point is that as a Catholic your seemingly careless attitude about the neighborhood that the AoD abandoned reveals a lot. I understand that the AoD has to make decisions just as any other business but if the AoD chooses to vacate the church then it should be seen as a wonderful thing that it will be turned into something positive in the neighborhood.

Your attitude of indifference towards the people in the community due to your beliefs is why so many now question the integrity of the church and some of its followers. I thought the principle of Catholicism was to care for others as Christ did. Obviously some neighborhoods deserve strip joints and some don't. Great attitude.

My money says the mosque will do more for the community than an empty church, strip club or whatever else you would prefer to be there.

Sometimes it seems to easy to find hypocrisy in some people's beliefs.
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Jt1
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS - Welcome our Bangladeshi and Muslim neighbors and congratulations on investing in our communities.
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Northend
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

once again, jt1, thank you for your sound take on things
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, I don't expect you to understand. Hell, I don't even expect many Catholics to understand, but why should I as a Catholic support the reuse of the building in the furtherance of what I believe to be a false religion?

This issue really isn't about you and you really shouldn't have a say in it, the lay Catholics should have the loudest voice in this matter as it's their Church building that is going to be used for sacrilege.

Let me reiterate this for the second time, I pin the fault for this transaction on the Archdiocese, it's their fault that this is coming to pass. It would be much less offensive to sell the building to a non-religious entity rather than selling it to another non-Christian religious group, especially the Muslims seeing the very contentious history that Christians and Muslims share.

And I'll reiterate this point again; as a Catholic, it would be illogical for me to believe that there is a shred of legitimacy in Islam. If I accept Christ's message, then giving Muhammed's message a single bit of consideration would be doubting my belief in the Gospel, and I'm not about to do that. You are free to believe that my beliefs are false if you want, you have that right and I'm not going to try to shove anything down your throat. But in the same regard I have every right to believe your beliefs to be false, it's a two-way street.

That said, the Church, as a private property owner, has the right to refuse to sell its property to anyone for whatever reason. In this case the Archdiocese has decided to sell the property to this group, but I still have every right to believe that this is a serious mistake.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a load of bull, Jt1. The Church's main mission has always been to spread it's version of the truth (i.e. the Gospel). I happen to accept that version of the truth. The Church believes that the most compassionate and caring thing that it can is introduce people to the love and mercy of Christ. If that's the Church's mission, how is it completing it by leaving the building to a group who teaches something contrary to the truth? In fact, doing that would be the opposite of showing compassion and caring. Leaving the building to the Muslims is, in essence, giving up on the neighborhood and leaving it for rot.

I'm sorry if you can't under stand this, but if you don't share my religious beliefs, you're never going to understand mine and many others points of view. No judgment on you either way, but that's just the way it is and we're going to have to agree to disagree.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P.S.--Welcome to our Bangladeshi and Muslim neighbors, I wish the AoD wasn't giving up on you so that you might learn (if you wanted to) of the love and mercy of Jesus Christ.
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Jt1
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Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TN - I respect the fact that you are sound in your beliefs and you do present your opinions in a sound manner.

My issues lie with exactly what you are saying. It is abundantly clear that you believe that the church's mission is to teach the gospel. IN the same breath you acknowledge that the church and some (certainly not all and probably not most) are more concerned with the well being of the teaching of the gospel than the well being of their fellow humans.

When a church is more concerned about 'spreading the truth' than actually caring for others it forces me to question how much the church is really aligned with the beliefs and the actions of Christ.
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Detroitej72
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Such a SAD, SAD DAY whithin the A.of D. when they have to close a Catholic Parish.

My Great- Aunt Lottie was buried at O.L.H.of C. At that time, in 1995, I remember seeing that the hood was rapidly becoming eastern asian.(i.e.muslim)

As it was in a Detroit Neighborhood, I was pleased to see reccent immagrants living in a Detroit Neighborhood; as a Detroit booster, this was a great sign!!! After all, my grandparents came to the D and settled here,(& subsiquently I was born here!) which can't be all bad...

However, there is a part of myself that can relate to Livedog2's original posts. We must remember that with change comes(sometime great)pain.

To all those who are quick to throw stones at Livedog2, I offer you a challange... How would you feel if your childhood church(or home)were closed or demolished?

It's easy to condemn everyone else,and spoute such hostile vennum, without takeing a good look in the mirror,...

Just some food for thought,

Detroitej72...
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The spreading of the Gospel IS caring for other human beings. If you have to choose between either caring for the physical needs of the people or caring for their spiritual needs which would you choose? I would hope that you would choose the latter seeing how saving one's immortal soul is, in mine and others opinions, more important than caring for physical needs (if you have to chose between the two) because the lack of physical needs will pass, the final destination of one's soul is eternal. I'm not saying that the Church should ignore caring for people's physical needs, it shouldn't, but if you're faced w/ the evil of choosing between the two, people's spiritual needs are more important.

Also, think of it this way; how can the Church care for the physical needs of the neighborhood if it's not going to be there? Either way, this is a very poor choice by the AoD.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

To all those who are quick to throw stones at Livedog2, I offer you a challenge... How would you feel if your childhood church (or home) were closed or demolished?




...or taken over by Muslims... Though I don't agree w/ the language he used.
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Jt1
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TN - I disagree on which is more important but our beliefs are probably very different.

We obviously won't agree on the issue but I appreciate the dialogue.
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how did the muslims "take it over", exactly? Were they armed? Or did the original congregation die off, move away, and generally abandon the church to the point that it was not feasible to keep it open?
If you think that your religion is more valid than others and that there is something wrong with another religion offering to buy the property, why the hell don't you become a priest and reorganize the congregation? Or barricade yourself in the place, like those old ladies in Poletown, circa 1982? Or have a bake sale and raise enough money to buy the place and padlock it to keep out those you consider inferior?
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barnesfoto,

Way to not read my pervious posts and put words in my mouth.

If you would notice my previous posts, you would see that I have pinned the blame for this on the AoD.

I never said they were inferior, I just said they don't practice what I think to be the truth. That isn't labeling them as inferior. If anything, I'd love for them to join me in the faith. If they don't want to do that, fine, it won't change the way I think or act towards them.

And sorry for wanting to do other things w/ my life. Sorry that I don't feel nearly qualified enough to be helping people handle their spiritual lives. I'm sorry that I'd like to have a family one day. Obviously I'm a hypocritical piece of shit for feeling all that.

In any event, the laity should be able to rely on its Diocese to make decisions w/ out screwing the pooch like it is w/ this one.
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Darwinism
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am really beginning to wonder about the mismanagement within the AOD.

Just like any Fortune 500 corp. or the city of Detroit or the state of Michigan, when strange things start to occur in a pattern ..... the fingers need to point at the leadership and the management of such entity.

The AOD has been closing churches, schools, outreach programs and etc. for years. Every March and April in recent years we were presented with a list of elementary, middle and high schools on the chopping block. We have discussed about Catholic schools on this forum many times over.

Personally, this matter shouldn't be about who the church building was sold to. Anyone, whether Catholic or not, should question 'why' the AOD is strapped to this extent. Bear in mind that the AOD is still not done closing schools and churches, liquidating school buildings and church buildings, as well as other assets for that matter.

I remember reading/hearing a report that Christianity/Catholicism is a religion losing members over the past decade or so. Islam, however, is a religion gaining members very steadily for quite a few solid years. Why ? Is there a problem in the leadership, is there mismanagement somewhere ? If current trends continue, this real estate transaction won't be the last to ignite such debate. Worse consequences may be on its way.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think the Church is losing members, they just keep moving further out into the 'burbs. However, most of them don't move so far out so as to be outside the AoD, so I don't see how the AoD could be losing the money that it says it is. I just think that the leadership leaves something to be desired.

BTW, I don't think many people are converting to Islam, they're just a lot of immigrants moving here. Not that there's anything wrong w/ that...
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Jt1
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This site has some interesting info on faith worldwide:

http://www.adherents.com/

This page shows one thing: http://www.adherents.com/Relig ions_By_Adherents.html

No matter how sure someone is in their religious beliefs at least 2/3 of the world population thinks they are wrong.
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And, there, displayed above is where religion goes wrong. It's nothing more than any other big-business-turned-pyramid-sc heme, as Darwanism plainly displays with his post. It's all about marketing with the almighty dollar being the bottom line. God is so very proud of his creation. As someone intimately familiar with the Bible, the perversion of the Gospel, the Torah, and the Koran (among many other religious texts) is sickening. It was sickening when the church was selling indulgences, and it's sickening now with the easy-breezy, lazy approach to the religion. I guess to "spread" the gospel has always meant you must "sell" the gospel, as well, like you would any Amway product. If only they'd just see the life-changing possibilities of this bar of soap. If they don't, to hell with them all...literally.

I feel bad having to take the route I did with the discussion, but, let's be honest, if were were talking about a AofD selling to a synagogue, this wouldn't have elicited some of the responses accept from a few of the real dogmatic ideologues.

(Message edited by lmichigan on October 29, 2006)
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course it wouldn't have, the Jews haven't tried to destroy Christianity the way Islam has [some would say it still is].

That said, I'd still be offended...
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The christians don't need Islam to destroy Christianity, they've been doing a fine job themselves for centuries.
I do notice that Cardinal Bingo, or whatever his name is, continues to pour money into buying up the neighborhood around Blessed Sacrament and leveling it to expand his vast empty parking lots. So yeah, you've got some problems at the top.
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Goat
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMichigan, The Roman Catholic Church does NOT actively promote recruiting to the church. It is believed that those who wish to come to the RC church may do so on their own behalf.
You are confusing other Christian religions that do promote recruiting with the RC Church.

BTW: All religions in North America have been losing members (much like Europe, we are becoming more secular by the minute).
Islam is growing in the rest of the world due to increased birth rates but it is not growing due to converts.
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Detroitplanner
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TnD, please read the words of Pope John Paull II and learn how the muslims and christians can co-exist.

http://www.monasticdialog.com/ a.php?id=496

Change is the only way that a City can grow. Especially one like Detroit that has been on a downward slide for so long.
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like for any one of you to point out how I've advocated discrimination or violence against the Muslim population. Co-existence means respecting each other as people, it doesn't mean having to give any legitimacy to each other's beliefs. I don't have to accept 1 iota of what Islam teaches and I don't, I think Islam is a false religion. In the same fashion, a Muslim doesn't have to accept anything that the Church teaches and many don't.

I wonder how many of you on here would be dragging the Church through the mud if the roles were reversed in this situation, claiming the the Church was assaulting the Muslim community. That would be interesting, wouldn't it?
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat, while I do make distinctions between Christian denominations (as any one would make between the denominations of any religion), at the end of the day all believe that any non-Christian (Jew, Muslim, and 'pagan,' alike) are doomed for for Hell, so the distinction between and evangelical church and a non-evangelical church don't mean much to me at all. One is just slightly less blatant/vocal about their intolerance. lol Actually, I'm not sure which is worse, holding on to the secret of one success in the afterlife, or pushing it on others. If it's a choice between telling someone they are destined for hell, or holding it secret, then we really have a problem. lol

(Message edited by lmichigan on October 29, 2006)
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, I really don't think you grasp the teachings of many Christian denominations.
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Itsjeff
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not about compassion, nobody in this instance is being put into a situation where compassion is needed, it's about not subverting what I and many Catholics feel is the truth.

"Religion of peace" my ass.
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Karenka
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was at the last Mass at Help of Christians today (no photos to offer, sorry to say). The church was packed, standing room only, with the liturgy alternating between English and Polish. Father George spoke movingly in Polish about the importance of the parish in the lives of its parishioners. After Mass, everyone was offered a chance to kiss the altar before it was desanctified. (The religious objects are being transferred to other churches, including a new church in Poland.) The church bells rang hauntingly for a long time as people filed back to their cars and homes.
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Citylover
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tndetroiter the only word to describe you is pathetic.Truly you are in need of prayer......I will golden key you from the teachings of Emmet Fox.

Btw I knew someone that was staunchly catholic.She was a popular girl in school I've been told; lots of dates and dancing etc, etc.Then she entered the convent isolated from her family for a considerable time but dedicating herself to her faith. This was in the 1930's in Detroit and she was my aunt. She would find you .........well she wouldn't say anything bad she would just pray for you.

Btw here is an easy solution for this buying of catholic property by faiths not like yours that you find so offensive.............BUY THE PROPERTY YOURSELF shitbird.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4599
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tndetroiter, I think my understanding of Christianity, and theology in general, would surprise you. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say I most likely have researched the Bible to a greater extent than you have. Not that you're one of them, but I've met far too many so-called Christians that don't even begin to know their holy text. Very few Christians (and particularly in this country) are actually very ideological; most are casual and lazy in their faith.
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Ordinary
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Username: Ordinary

Post Number: 64
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To all those who are quick to throw stones at Livedog2, I offer you a challange... How would you feel if your childhood church(or home)were closed or demolished?

Once in a while I drive by the church where I was baptized, Our Lady of Good Counsel on McNichols. It's as if I'm amazed that it's still a Catholic church. It would be nice if it remains a catholic church but if there aren't enough parishioners I can't worry about that. I just don't understand why Livedog2 is so up in arms about this. The crusades are over, get on with your life.
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Ordinary
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Username: Ordinary

Post Number: 65
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
saving one's immortal soul is, in mine and others opinions, more important than caring for physical needs

I know I took that out of context but that is a huge cop-out. It reminds me of a Peanuts cartoon where Charlie Brown and Linus are all bundled up on a winter's day and they're looking at Snoopy and commenting on how cold he looks and what they should do. They walk over to him and Charlie Brown pats him on the head and says, "Be of good cheer Snoopy", and then Linus reiterates, "Yes Snoopy, be of good cheer." Then they walk away and Snoopy's got a confused look on his face.
I know that's from the bible somewhere.
If you want to save my soul, fine. But give me something to eat and a coat to wear and maybe I'll be a little more receptive to your message.
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Karenk
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Username: Karenk

Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it was the people that made the religion. A building is just a building, but what do I know, I'm Jewish. It's nice to see anyone have an interest in Detroit.
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220hendrie1910
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Username: 220hendrie1910

Post Number: 46
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tndetroiter protested:


quote:

I'd like for any one of you to point out how I've advocated discrimination or violence against the Muslim population.



and then, two lines later:


quote:

I think Islam is a false religion.



If he doesn't see the contradiction between those two statements, no amount of arguing with him is going to help...

Religion isn't a problem until it ceases to tolerate other religions.

Half-secular in Ottawa.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5127
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our Lady Help of the Christians Catholic Church is NOT the only one being transformed into a mosque. There was a corner Catholic Church on Dwyer St. in Detroit's Yemeni Village Community. Years ago that church is being transformed into a mosque and Islamic School. The ethnic Muslim community in Hamtramck and Detroit borders is growing very fast due to all the extra job base. It will continue to fill up all the Hamtramck and the rest of Lodge Park and Conant Gardens before they could move on the suburbs.
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Dbc
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Username: Dbc

Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course people are sad OLHC is closing. The neighborhood church was the spiritual, educational, and social center of most Polish areas. (Detroit and Hamtramck alone once had 28 ethnic Polish Roman Catholic parishes). Any time a parish closes, it is a sad event for the congregants, many of whom stay in run-down neighborhoods simply because of the parish. My family is from that neighborhood; I have fond memories of attending Mass and the annual Apple Festival with my grandparents, aunts, cousins, and great aunts and uncles; and I would try and go to Mass at OLHC when I visited my folks in the suburbs. (I live in DC.)

And there you have it. Times change and people leave their old neighborhoods or die there without their children replacing them. I was born and raised in the burbs; my cousins now live in K-zoo and Warren; my grandparents, aunts, and great aunts and uncle moved to Warren in the 90s. Moreover, it is utterly hypocritical to leave a neighborhood and then complain that it's "taken over." (Plus, I love how quickly people forget the reception the dirty and papist Poles, Italians, and Irish received when they first moved into their old neighborhoods.) Anyway, as if you can move to the ‘burbs, but everyone else has to stay so the neighborhood is the same when you come visit. For example, my folks said the last Mass was standing room only. Where was everybody the last 15 years?

But, it’s great the church will be put to good use. (Hey tn[opus]detroiter, a strip club? Yeah, that is so much better than it remaining a house of worship. I guess you missed that whole compassion part of Catholicism.) If the abandoned and dilapidated old North Detroit General Hospital (immediately south of OLHC) is any indication, everyone should be ecstatic the old parish is becoming a mosque.

Anyway, I’m sad because the closing of the parish constitutes a lost piece of Polish heritage and family history. I like to hear people speak and sing in Polish; I liked the old Polish groceries that once dotted the neighborhood; and I enjoyed seeing a place where my father and cousins were altar boys, my great uncle was an usher, and my great-grandmother went to Mass every day. If you can miss the London Chop House, Grande Ballroom, Hudson’s, or National Theater, it’s totally appropriate to be sad about the closing of a church.

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