Kpm Member Username: Kpm
Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:13 pm: | |
New lounge and eatery to open near Comerica Park November 2, 2006 BY KELLEY L. CARTER A new downtown Detroit hotspot is set to open in early December. Lot 1210, which will be a small lounge located near the downtown YMCA, is set to open Dec. 10, says manager Joey Fourmia, who used to manage hot nightclub X/S about three years ago. (Lot 1210 is named as such because 12/10 is Fourmia's birthday.) “It's going to be an upscale lounge. Everything is going to be like small plates --everything is simple,” says 31-year-old Foumia, of his family-owned spot. “There will be about 50 items on the menu. We'll be open for lunch, we'll be open after work for dinner and we'll be open until 2 a.m. everyday.” It's located in a prime spot -- right at the corner of Grand River and Broadway -- and is near heavily trafficked neighboring bars and restaurants. “We felt it was a good spot downtown and there's a lot of potential there because of the ballpark and because of what's happening downtown,” he says. The address is 1344 Broadway. The website is www.lot1210.com. http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20061102/NEWS99/ 61102018 |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8091 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:16 pm: | |
How can it be called a 'hotspot' before it opens. I'm hoping for another ultra lounge with a high cover (to make it exclusive) and outdated techno DJs. I hope it succeeds but that blurb is screaming Centre Street after the clusterfuck renovations. (Message edited by jt1 on November 02, 2006) |
Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 4083 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:31 pm: | |
old Hub or across the street? |
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman
Post Number: 145 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:50 pm: | |
What happened to Centre Street? I've been there twice, with considerable periods in-between. Once when it opened as some sort of multimedia experience, and then last New Years Eve. |
Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 4085 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:58 pm: | |
Google map shows that address as the parking lot next to the old Hub. |
Gumby Member Username: Gumby
Post Number: 1461 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:06 pm: | |
Well it is called "Lot 1210" |
Rustic Member Username: Rustic
Post Number: 2893 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:09 pm: | |
where will people park? |
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 877 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:19 pm: | |
Inside. |
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies
Post Number: 2280 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:37 pm: | |
That "upscale Lounge" tag seems to be a kiss of death. Every "Upscale Lounge" that opens seems to have a very short lifespan. |
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch
Post Number: 1938 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:40 pm: | |
Sounds like a potential nice addition. Wish them luck. One thing though, doesn't everybody know that giving out a URL to a "site is under construction" page became unacceptable in 1998? |
Rustic Member Username: Rustic
Post Number: 2894 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:42 pm: | |
what will their phone number be when they open? |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 77 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:46 pm: | |
Hello, I'm kind of 'worried' about the multiplication of this type of 'VIP' bar/lounges in downtown. The beauty of downtown Detroit now is its affordability and plethora of 'ordinary' bars, where a beer will not cost you $10 or a shot for $8. It is still pretty affordable to party downtown, get a nice buzz without slamming too much cash. I would love to see more of the Well type bars. Ordinary and a reflection of the real Detroit. But still, new bars are always welcome! |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8096 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:48 pm: | |
quote:Ordinary and a reflection of the real Detroit.
Not everyone likes to 'keep it real'. I love the Well but downtown need 50 wells as much as it needs 50 ultra lounged. Nothing wrong with selection and some different options. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 3024 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:49 pm: | |
Naming something after ones own birthday does seem a bit pretentious. Good thing he wasn't born on the 11th of September. |
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy
Post Number: 26 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:49 pm: | |
i'm with frenchman as wierd as that sounds frenchman it is |
Rsa Member Username: Rsa
Post Number: 961 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 1:54 pm: | |
not to worry; there's only so much of a market for a certain type of bar. bars tend to have a shorter life span, especially the trendy and expensive ones. if there's a demand for a type (such as the well), someone will fill it. it's been my experience that there's no shortage of people who want to, and can, open a bar. |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 79 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:04 pm: | |
hopefully, I'm really worried about the Detroit bar/lounge scene turning into another Miami, Chicago or NY: VERY expensive. Everytime I would visit these cities, massive and heavy pre-game in the hotel was necessary. Really, $150 in a bar would get me nowhere: you're talking $8.50/shot, and a double shot Martini for $13 plus buying drinks to the girl you meet with and/or friends... ridiculous. Unfortunately, Paris is falling to this loungy trend: when the cheap Paris Bistros use to be king, they are now taken over by the Champs-Elysees-like lounges with outrageous prices. No girls to mack on and have fun with, just money hungry women waiting to be driven to your Four Seasons Hotel room in your latest Bentley. This is why i find Detroit's scene way more organic, down to earth, genuinely fun and real. I really hope it stays this way as long as possible. Unfortunately I think it's only a matter of time before Detroit surrenders to this new loungy/VIPish bar scene, seemingly, so popular nowadays. |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 1227 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:10 pm: | |
quote:i'm with frenchman as wierd as that sounds frenchman it is
That's not a very good Haiku. |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 80 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:15 pm: | |
so as it seems, I'm the DetroitYes! black sheep... I really hate being French in the USA. |
Rsa Member Username: Rsa
Post Number: 962 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:16 pm: | |
really, no worries. detroit isn't as worldly (even tho we like to think we are) as those towns, we're fiercely proud of our dive bars, there's too many sports fans that come downtown for that to happen, and detroit is still very much a working class town (at the very least in spirit). there's a history of this; a lot of places hopped on the techno/rave trend, before that was the 80's glam clubs in rivertown, before that was the disco clubs, and before that was the rock clubs. just like those this will peak, fade, and pass. then another trend will come along. throughout it all, the smaller beer and a shot places have - and will - survive. it's the regulars and the unpretentiousness that will never go out of style. |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 81 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:21 pm: | |
Amen to you Rsa... |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 3026 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:28 pm: | |
Frenchman, you are NOT the black sheep on this forum. There are plenty of other folks who would wear that crown. And don't hate being French! Americans have always had a bug up their collective derrieres about some group of people. In the 19th Century it was the Irish and the Chinese. In the 20th Century it was African-Americans and in this century the French and Islamic peoples. You just happened to fall into both categories.... Don't let the "Freedom Fries" crowd get you down! (Message edited by Gistok on November 02, 2006) |
Dds Member Username: Dds
Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:28 pm: | |
quote:throughout it all, the smaller beer and a shot places have - and will - survive. it's the regulars and the unpretentiousness that will never go out of style.
The trick will be to keep your mouths shut about the better shot and beer places so they don't get overrun with the people looking new places when the lounges shut down. |
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch
Post Number: 1939 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:39 pm: | |
Frenchman -- You won't be the black sheep over here until you point out that there is crime, that your elected officials are incompetent, that there is not an abundance of retail options, that there is trash everywhere, that your garbage does not get picked up, that you have to pay an extra fee for bulk, that your property values have declined, that your kids can't go to school here, that your car has been stolen and/or broken into multiple times, that you can't leave your bike on a 3rd story balcony because it gets stolen, that you can't leave your garage door open for 5 minutes while you drop something off in the house or you will get robbed, but that you are not negative only a realist. Then you will become the black sheep. |
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 879 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:42 pm: | |
Dabirch - e-mail me: ecriteser@hotmail.com |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 69 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:11 pm: | |
Dabrich seems to think that Detroit has the market on everything that is bad in a city. Ofcourse there are rotten things that go on here, but for some reason some can never see the positives many of us observe and live with here,, I've lived in New York, Chicago and Denver and while those places have great things to do they also deal with many , many of the problems we do , ( some even worse) . Living in Manhattan is awesome but you talk about crime, corruptness, and filth??? take a walk around some nights,, it isnt all fifth avenue everywhere,,some of the most gruesome murders go on that you couldnt even imagine, there is hardship everywhere and getting enough warm water in the a.m .to take a shower is often a challenge even in some of the more pricier co-ops,,and yet most people understand its part of living in this type of urban environment and dont bitch about all the negatives all the time. If you hate it that much, really, you should just move,, if you choose to stay, try to contribute something positive, I still enjoy living Downtown , its getting better and better,,, theres tons of good things going on,, some really great people and I very much enjoy the grittier , down to earth places to eat and drink at. I have yet to live in a city that hosted the All Star Game, Superbowl and World Series in one years time, also in state of the art facilities,, all by the way,, outstanding successes...,, and... you dont pay 450,000 for 600 sq feet of living space,, |
Supersport Member Username: Supersport
Post Number: 10818 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:18 pm: | |
quote:I'm really worried about the Detroit bar/lounge scene turning into another Miami, Chicago or NY: VERY expensive.
This guy must be from another country or something! haha Seriously man, almost every time a place opens up with higher than average prices, they almost ALWAYS drop them down to be more competitive. One of the most recent new bars, which would be labeled a "hotspot," would be Cheli's. Yet you go in there and pay just $3 for a pint on draft. When in reality, people would likely pay more than that to hang there, they kept their prices reasonable, thus they have a killer business going. Other places, such as Townpump and Centaurs, there prices are a good $1 or $2 above most other places last I checked, thus I don't patronize them. They still seem to be doing a fine business, but they lost my business, somebody who used to stop in there quite regularly. |
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313
Post Number: 227 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:26 pm: | |
I want to see Detroit as a destination like NY and Chicago. I want to see it expensive. Just Downtown that is. But Detroit has something those cities won't have...........a cheaper getaway across the river. 313 |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1117 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:26 pm: | |
When a bar/lounge advertises itself as "VIP" then it is exactly the opposite, the type of bar where you hear about shootings outside at 2 a.m. |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 84 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:34 pm: | |
Detroit313, I don't think Detroit can get away with a high-class VIP bar/lounge scene. First of all, most of the people in the VIP bars in NY, Chicago or Miami are TOURISTS. Same thing in Paris for instance. Those bars are where non of the locals go. The VIP bars are filled with Americans, Canadians, Italians, and recently Japanese in Paris. I went to Rush St, Chicago where you have a bunch of pricey bars, and 90% of the people I met were from out of State. Detroit, unfortunately, does not have the huge tourist influx. Once again, I want Detroit to remain as real, true and down to earth as it is now. It is really relieving how real it is. Last week I found myself chugging beers and shotgunning beer cans with a bunch of beautiful girls!! It was also my first 'shotgun' esxperience! Thrilling! It was a great night. They ended up giving me a drunk tour of the city. They were from Royal Oak, Bloomfield and Rochester but told me they hated these places and came to a more ordinary yet exciting party place: Detroit!And each and every week-end, something just similar happens. Really nice, generous and genuine people. That could NEVER happen in NY, Chicago, Paris or Miami. Flash your cash! (Message edited by Frenchman_in_the_d on November 02, 2006) |
Rsa Member Username: Rsa
Post Number: 964 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:44 pm: | |
hee hee. frenchy, your post made me think of this:
quote:PARIS - Around a dozen Japanese tourists a year need psychological treatment after visiting Paris as the reality of unfriendly locals and scruffy streets clashes with their expectations, a newspaper reported on Sunday.
read the whole article here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15 391010/ |
Matt Member Username: Matt
Post Number: 1124 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:45 pm: | |
Sport, you're one of those people who call places "Targets", "Kmarts" and "Meijers", aren't ya? :P |
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch
Post Number: 1941 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:46 pm: | |
And I am glad you love the city, Detroitbill. It is a great place for single people who are childless -- I completely agree. Single people who chose to live in a 2 square mile zone and are focused on eating and drinking. I know -- I did it for a long time - and it is great. It is gritty. It is edgy. It is fun. Met great friends and interesting people. Would not trade the time I have lived here for anything. However, as you get older, and life changes, your perspectives change. Your interests change. What you desire in a neighborhood changes. Finding good arugula may become more important than finding a cold .40 of black label. Civility becomes more important than keeping it real. Clean and trashless streets become more important than gritty. Finding a park with playscapes becomes more important than finding a park where you can brazenly smoke pot. The lack of these things, in my book, is something worthy of complaint. I have also lived in DC, and Chicago and my wife has lived in NYC, DC and Boston -- so we do know a little something about urban living. Comparing the government, the crime, the filth, and the out and out desolation of the vast majority of this city to any of those is either blind ignorance or stupidity. As for contributing positives -- please, don't go there. You have no idea what I do, nor of what I have done. And, by the way, the All-Star game, Super Bowl, and World Series, did nothing to improve my neighborhood, improve my city services, decrease crime, get rid of the prostitutes lining the street, or really improve anything. Who cares about the fucking superbowl, world series or any of that, when you go to sleep hearing gunshots on a regular basis? And wake up to find you car gone? There is an entire city -- some 700,000 people surrounding our little plastic bubble of a downtown. It is the plight of those people and of those neighborhoods that bring the negativity, that bring the ugliness, that bring the news articles blasting detroit. You may not see it downtown, but open your eyes and your heart, and you will certainly see it everywhere else. I am glad a few more bars opened downtown. We are rising, indeed! (Message edited by dabirch on November 02, 2006) |
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313
Post Number: 230 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:52 pm: | |
Frenchmen, take a look at the bar I run, Top spot in New York and mostly a regular crowd. I know what you getting at and we were once a tourist crowd too. That has long died down and our sales are higher than ever and we are still the place to go if you want to impress your date with a $20 dollar martini. www.mocbars.com Stone Rose Bar Lounge-NY |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 85 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:54 pm: | |
Dabirch, i fully agree with you and understand. I have visited many neighborhoods in Detroit with urban connaisseurs. i have witnessed, seen and extensively discovered the plight of Detroit. However, having a vibrant, young, dynamic and organic downtown is essential isn't it? Is it not also the American Capitalist model? Create a dynamic, consuming and producing minority (e.g. downtown)... and the money trickles down to others (neighborhoods)? |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 86 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:57 pm: | |
Detroit313, if you need a spiffy bar tender, with a slight French accent, who has bar tended in Paris for 2 years and an expert at making Mojitos and Kirr Royals at lightning speed... contact me!! ;-) hehe |
Supersport Member Username: Supersport
Post Number: 10821 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 3:57 pm: | |
Matt, I used to work for Fords a few years back. |
Supersport Member Username: Supersport
Post Number: 10822 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:02 pm: | |
Dabirch, May I suggest that your beverage consist of the alcoholic sorts tonight? Jeez. |
Track75
Member Username: Track75
Post Number: 2437 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:10 pm: | |
Very nice, Dabirch. French, having a "vibrant, young, dynamic and organic downtown" is "essential" to the downtown residents who like to go out on the town a lot and to the ego of the Detroitists, but the spin-off to the neighborhoods is minimal. I'd venture a guess that to many Detroiters the status of downtown is meaningless in their everyday lives. There may be a longer-term indirect effect if a thriving downtown can pump enough cash into the city coffers to make a difference in the numbers of police or the schools but that's virtually undetectable. |
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch
Post Number: 1942 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:11 pm: | |
Sport - Yeah, it may be time... |
Rsa Member Username: Rsa
Post Number: 965 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:12 pm: | |
oh fer the love of god. does somebody have to turn every thread into one bitching about something that has nothing to do with the original topic? yes, we get it. detroit has problems. you don't like detroit for those problems. way to go on rebelling against a yay-detroit oriented site. anyway, inspired from the "ford's" comments, i thought i'd post this site for those who haven't seen it: http://www.michigannative.com/ ma_home.shtml always good for a laugh. |
Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 4090 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:20 pm: | |
Hell, I was just trying to find out if this was the old HUB. The announcement surprised me that it was reopening as an upscale club. When I talked to the new owners prior to the play-offs they told me it was going to be an Irish Pub. |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 70 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:26 pm: | |
Dabrich, I understand what your are saying, and who ever you are ,, you are...but you neither have any idea how old I am,, nor if I am single..etc,,nor what community organizations I volunteer with nor what economic group of people I deal with work wise,, you would be surprised on all counts,nor for that matter would you know where else I may own a residence/live part time at the current time (Toronto)and actually have the ability to compare monthly. That wonder city has many problems along with its good PR job it does,,many of their residents are dealing with dire gang problems in some of the most affluent areas now, garbage removal is horrific, and prices are going so high average families have to live an hour from their work . If you live around endless gunshots, you should move,, thats not an issue where I live here,, as I mentioned before, with all your consistent negatives you seem extremely unhappy here, you really should consider moving to an enviroment that is more condusive to your happiness, you see there are many of us here who are contributing positives to this city and enjoying,,we fully realize we have our work cut out for us, but to each their own, One would be blind to not see the problems here but if they overwhelm your life, time to move on As for hosting the three events mentioned and still coming up with a negative ,, geez,,you need to understand that it has provided alot of happiness to many people in this area even if it doesnt help your own frame of mind and does refect positively on any city accomplishing it,,no other city has done it yet accept ours. Any other place would be boasting big time ...thats a fact |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 1230 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:32 pm: | |
Dude, punctuation and paragraphs. |
Crment Member Username: Crment
Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:45 pm: | |
Centre Street is now called Grand Central Lounge. Here is the news article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060825/ENT 05/608250326/1035/ENT |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 167 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:54 pm: | |
Isn't this the place where the Post Bar was supposed to be? There was temp bar here during Super Bowl. |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 72 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 4:55 pm: | |
Sorry Susan, just making some comments |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 168 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 5:09 pm: | |
I was wrong. It is definitely the old Hub location. http://www.thepeoplemover.com/ Broadway.id.46.htm |
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313
Post Number: 231 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 5:09 pm: | |
Ok Frenchman, But I'm still working on the Gerbers to open a Stone Rose in the Book Caddy. I will keep you in mind. 313 |
Mrfrench Member Username: Mrfrench
Post Number: 56 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 5:16 pm: | |
what's the joint on the corner of Michigan and Shelby. Saw the paper down off the windows a few hours ago. viva la france |
Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d
Post Number: 87 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 6:37 pm: | |
Detroit313! yay! another bar/lounge for Detroit eh? Please do keep me in mind: salemgh (@) umich.edu Mr French, it's vivE la France! But yes, indeed! |
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 237 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 7:04 pm: | |
I'm really worried that detroit might get a nightlife. I just want to hang out on the streets downtown by myself and keep it real and be bored all the time... now people are going to actually be spending money downtown??? they're ruining this amazing city... they're going to make it..... bustling... |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 74 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 7:19 pm: | |
What ever you do Andy don't go walking around Greektown, Campus Martius, Casinos, Foxtown , Stadiums during sporting activities etc,, your going to feel very threatened, there is all sort of people there , especially on the weekends. |
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria
Post Number: 1600 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 8:31 pm: | |
quote:French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2006 Mrfrench Member Username: Mrfrench Post Number: 56 Registered: 01-2006 Frenchman_in_the_d Member Username: Frenchman_in_the_d Post Number: 87 Registered: 08-2006
Trying to take back the city, guys? |
Redetroit Member Username: Redetroit
Post Number: 39 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 11:48 pm: | |
Mrfrench, the place opening at Michigan and Shelby is...(I can already hear the bitching), a new lounge called Essco. It is supposed to open in the next few weeks. |