  French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2006 |
So i read in the newspaper a week or so ago that the Joe might be renovated or built in a new sight behind the Fox Theater and new news. Or pics? | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2006 |
Louis | ||
Mountainman Member Username: Mountainman Post Number: 114 Registered: 02-2006 |
Maybe it should be Jerry Lewis? | ||
Beadgrl Member Username: Beadgrl Post Number: 28 Registered: 07-2006 |
The JLA is really a dump compared to other NHL arenas. The bf and i were lucky enough a few years ago to see the Wings play on the road at Toronto. The Air Canada Centre is gorgeous! Friendly workers, two concourses and clean as a whistle. Mr. I should contact the Leafs and find out who the arcs were on that building. Just awesome! (Message edited by BeadGrl on November 14, 2006) | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1236 Registered: 11-2003 |
The JLA is not necessarily a dump, it's just old. The same thing could be said about Tiger Stadium being a dump because it was older than all the new-fangled ballparks with fountains and carousels and...er, nevermind... | ||
Beadgrl Member Username: Beadgrl Post Number: 29 Registered: 07-2006 |
Well, last time i was at the JLA it was dark and dirty. It would take more than a coat of paint to freshen it up. I'd like to see Detroit host the NHL All Star game again. Last time that happened was 1980 when the JLA was new. I don't think NHL will grant the Wings that honor til they have a new arena to have it in. No matter how great the Wings play. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2304 Registered: 10-2003 |
JLA is a dump. It was a dump when it was built and it hasn't aged well. It was poorly designed, isolated from downtown and rushed into service for the Republican national convention. It doesn't have enough restrooms and the entrance stairs are death traps. Olympia stadium was much older than the Joe when it was torn down. It was a much better stadium in it's old age than the Joe is now. The Joe is one of the worst stadiums I've ever been in. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 905 Registered: 11-2003 |
Everyone is saying this now... let the mention of a wrecking ball sounds somewhat believable and everyone will want to hold hands and form a chain around it to protest it's demolition. That will be followed by, it was the greatest stadium ever... and people saying Detroit tore another great building down etc... | ||
Beadgrl Member Username: Beadgrl Post Number: 31 Registered: 07-2006 |
"Oh! But Stevie Y. played there! So did Gordie Howe! The Wings won all their Cups there!" yeah...i hear ya, Viziondetroit. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 750 Registered: 06-2005 |
I agree with Ndavies. I absolutely hate going to the Joe. The only saving grace for the Joe is that the People Mover has a stop and I can ride from my home and avoid those "death stairs". I wonder how many people have had heart attacks from those? Anyway, Mr. I needs to build a nice semi-sunk stadium in the burgeoning neighborhood behind the Fox. Ofcouse, I will be the first to complain if the stadium does not compliment it's new neighborhood. I say, get rid of JLA and build the new Little Ceaser's Stadium! | ||
Hit24sqft Member Username: Hit24sqft Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 |
The Wings only won their last 3 cups at the Joe - the other 7 were at Olympia | ||
Beadgrl Member Username: Beadgrl Post Number: 33 Registered: 07-2006 |
Oops...sorry. I was thinking of people thinking of the years that the Wings have been in the JLA and what has happened there. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 191 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yep, tear down a stadium because it has "death stairs" so that fat, lazy and out of shape Detroitiers can attend games. How dare people get exercise. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 192 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yep, tear down a stadium because it has "death stairs" so that fat, lazy and out of shape Detroiters can attend games. How dare people get exercise. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2306 Registered: 10-2003 |
The death stairs aren't death stairs because they are stairs. They are death stairs because they are too steep and don't meet code. There's a long story about how the lead engineer on the project wouldn't sign off on them. He was moved aside and A junior engineer was forced into signing off on them. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 354 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hey! I run up and down those stairs to work out my calves and glutes on my mid-day walk! I'm doing what I can to lessen the number of lazy and out of shape Detroiters! I seem to remember I can verify the above statement. My dad was an civil engineer working on that site! (Message edited by Detroitplanner on November 14, 2006) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5188 Registered: 02-2004 |
It's for Illitch to build his LITTLE CAESAR'S ARENA at the site near Lafayette Park than at his Illitchville behind the Fox. The area over there is still to small to build a new stadium. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 245 Registered: 02-2006 |
Tear that schiitt down! The wings can play at Copa in the winter and cut down on ice cost.  313 | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 46 Registered: 06-2005 |
Gosh guys, Detroit is BROKE and almost in receiver ship and you guys are talking about JLA being torn down and a new one built. I've been there many times in the 80's and it wasnt terrible. If things were kept up, you woulndt need to tear stuff down when its only 30 years old. I dont get it. It surely cant be that bad!!!??? | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 917 Registered: 01-2005 |
Ah, me. I always said nothing could ever replace the Olympia. Here's nostalgia, hanging on the wall in my den in Las Vegas....  | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 88 Registered: 09-2006 |
Hey Ex, funds will most likely come from private and public sources to make it work, it also strategically would allow COBO to expand which is needed badly..JLA is really just an arena and nothing more,,,there is surely alot of use left in it but nobody likes to lag behind in state of the art facilities in pro sports these days.. If a new one is built in the sports entertainment area is would be a wise fit and add to the flavour of that area. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2006 |
The JLA is up near the top of worst buildings ever built in the D. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 355 Registered: 04-2006 |
I question whether Cobo needs to be added. A capital expense like that for the auto show is not a good use of public funds. I would fully rework it so that the ballrooms could be used for display areas, and that you could better utilize the space in the arena as well during the auto shows and push all the vendor stuff to the exhibition space being built at MGM Grand, Motor City and Greektown, as well as at the GM Marriot. I would also try to figure out how to put in a bridge system that would link the JLA plaza level the long sports hall of Cobo with the riverfront side entrance of the Joe. That way, pedestrian traffic could park downtown and walk to the cames and be indoors for most of the walk. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1920 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, because Detroit needs LESS pedestrians on the street. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2916 Registered: 10-2003 |
The city wouldn't pay the added expense for a deeper bowl to make the entrance ground level, hence the stairs. The city couldn't provide more surrounding land, hence their steepness. Heated steps to melt the snow were planned but the city couldn't afford them, hence the deathtrap. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2309 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dan, Detroitplanners suggestion is a good one. The only way to get from downtwon to the Joe is to leave the street in the first place. Cobo and the Lodge are major obstacles in getting from downtown into the Joe. The only way to do it is A. Use Detroitplanners suggestion of walking through Cobo hall and down the sports hall of fame hallway B. Go the other way around Cobo using the tubes over the Lodge. C. make the long cold walk along the riverwalk from Hart plaza. Detroit planners suggestion would merely remove the need to walk down the stairs, past a parking lot entrance and then walk back up the stairs. The Joe is landlocked behind Cobo with no good street access to it in the first place. There is nothing of value on the street during the winter. While the riverwalk is there, there are no storefronts along that tiny piece of road you would walk along. There is only the backside of Cobo and the Joe there. After the games that piece of Atwater is 100% congested with shuttle busses picking people up after the game. Allowing people not taking the busses to bypass that stretch would be a great benefit to both the people going past and the catching the shuttles. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 91 Registered: 09-2006 |
The problem Detroit is finding now is its convention space is too small to attract major conventions, It doesn't rank in the top 20 for convention/display space anymore.. Oddly enough , the additional hotel space which was so badly needed before is now being satisfied with the three Casino hotels , the BC and a couple of other smaller additions. The city is now developing into a good venue for conventions with the various sort of additional entertainment , hotel and restaurant facilities now available..It is imperative they expand. It is one of those scenarios where they can't afford not to. The auto show could easily move in the future also but this is just one major revenue attraction, there are many many more.. Detroit has already shown in the last year it is more than capable of hosting major events,, They would be wise to continue on this road. All economic reports produced for the Metro Detroit convention and planning bureaus agree with this conclusion. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 357 Registered: 04-2006 |
Mike and all, what everyone is not seeing is that you cannot bring the current level down at its current location. It is built on gravel that used to be the River. Any basements would most likely fill with water. I would also along the waterfront level of cobo, fill the empty windows with bars and restraunts that would help generate income for the facility 12 months a year, with walkers during the warm months, hockey fans during the cold ones, and a respite for conventioneers. Cobo does not need to the the biggest convention hall in the world, it needs to be the best. It has a riverfront view that it never uses, and thats too bad because that is its best asset. Dan, people walk through Cobo now on cold days to get to the Joe, all I am talking about is making the walk safer and more comfortable. I suppose we suppose we shoulr rip down the people mover and get rid of busses too, as people use those instead of walking. (Message edited by Detroitplanner on November 14, 2006) | ||
Eastside Member Username: Eastside Post Number: 965 Registered: 01-2005 |
Nice pic Ray. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2917 Registered: 10-2003 |
Right, not without enormous expense. The alternative was to build a smaller arena, or to provide more land around it for entrance ramps. The stairs were the last resort. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3076 Registered: 08-2004 |
One of the reasons I feel that JLA's days are numbered is because it loses a lot of business to the Palace, a superior facility. And as we all know Mike Ilitch and Bill Davidson detest each other. Ilitch will want to up the ante... and get more bookings with a new state-of-the-art facility. | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2006 |
I hope they make that wall a Huge glass window | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1121 Registered: 12-2004 |
I'm fairly certain that the Joe will go away with little more fanfare than the Silverdome. Its never been a really great arena, despite all the great stuff that happened there. | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 151 Registered: 01-2004 |
With hockey becoming a real dull, boring sport, do the Wings need a bigger arena with more suites to fill? | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 324 Registered: 01-2006 |
Taj, the Wings are always at or near the top of the attendance list. Even if you consider how many seats are empty, though paid for each night...Detroit still leads the NHL in actual attendance. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 640 Registered: 02-2006 |
Who said anything about bigger? If they build a new one, it will likely be smaller. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1122 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hockey is the sport of kings. The new stadium should seat 100,000. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 906 Registered: 11-2003 |
^ lol might as well throw some ice on Michigan Stadium :-D | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 339 Registered: 12-2003 |
I have always been a big fan of being close to the action not in the BIGGEST stadium. Why can't they replicate great arenas with steep seating angles yet intimate vantages. I.E. Olympia, Maple Leaf Gardens, Boston Garden, Chicago Stadium. (Message edited by bussey on November 14, 2006) | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2003 |
To keep things in the family, Ilitch needs to build the arena so that it will link Comerica Park/Foxtown area to the Motor City Casino, which isn't going to be easy or cheap. During the Super Bowl, the Greektown Casino took in the largest cut of the three casinos by an overwhelming percentage. It's believable that is the case for all sporting events at Comerica or Ford Field. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 340 Registered: 12-2003 |
    | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1469 Registered: 06-2004 |
It's not just JLA that's a dump - that whole area behind Cobo needs to be reconfigured - nasty planning all around | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 325 Registered: 01-2006 |
It was just announced on the Red Wings broadcast that they are currently installing a new video board at JLA that will debut for the game on Tuesday. Not a hint of anything, as it will likely pay for itself in advertising and promotions, but it's still a very welcomed upgrade as the old thing was just awful. | ||
Calvino Member Username: Calvino Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2006 |
Here's a scale model of JLA placed behind the Fox. Plenty of space, I think, for the structure (obviously not built identical to the existing stadium) and parking, ties into the Tiki and Moose Lodge.  | ||
Calvino Member Username: Calvino Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2006 |
You lose a couple of those nasty motels on Montcalm and Columbia, and you have to close down Clifford, but a slightly reconfigured stadium could certainly fit well. Here's the view from the north.  | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 341 Registered: 12-2003 |
If a new hockey stadium ever gets built in that area, WOW, that whole stretch of Park Ave would get that much more desirable. It already has a ton of bars and apts. The addition of a new stadium would allow for more development along Cass and ... Once I-75 is covered up with a tunnel...You could spread the growth up to where Harry's and Woodward Place are. I advocate covering up all downtown freeways with tunnels. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 326 Registered: 01-2006 |
Do you think a new arena in Foxtown would expedite the process of capping I75? | ||
Calvino Member Username: Calvino Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2006 |
This configuration provides the same square footage as the existing JLA while not blocking Clifford.  | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 327 Registered: 01-2006 |
I love those pictures from the original 6 barns! I'll never forget playing at Maple Leaf Gardens my sophomore year in high school. It was the first season after Toronto moved to their new building, so we got the all access tour into their old locker room, the press box, and even into the studio where Hockey Night in Canada was filmed! | ||
Hit24sqft Member Username: Hit24sqft Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2006 |
With hockey becoming a real dull, boring sport, do the Wings need a bigger arena with more suites to fill? >>>> Nothing is more boring than football, with its endless penalties "flags", time-outs, reviews, looking at each play from 14 different angels, etc etc etc Hockey - the sport of speed and excitement | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 342 Registered: 12-2003 |
 | ||
Saintme Member Username: Saintme Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2006 |
Does the city really have plans to cover up I-75? That's a great idea, in my uneducated opinion. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 641 Registered: 02-2006 |
No. It would be nice, but the expense is unjustifiable. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1896 Registered: 07-2004 |
Any new stadia need to have some natural light streaming through them. I love how you can see outside of Ford Field while walking through the western concourse and at the main entrance. Too bad Ford Field couldn't have added more light. Imagine the roof with a huge skylight or many smaller skylights to allow the light to hit the field. I know these would be expensive endeavors, but it would have made Ford Field a truly unique venue. | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yeah if they had a skylight at ford field that would be cool are they really trying to cover 1 -75 | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 349 Registered: 12-2003 |
Of course. I know someone who works with MDOT and the city planning commission. Covering up I-75, The Lodge, and I-94 just north of Wayne State is a done deal. It just has to go through the red tape. When it is all done it will resemble this interchange of the Alexander Hamilton Bridge in NYC.   Notice how the Apartments are built right over the expressway. Imagine this being done along I-75 in between Brush Park and the CoPa. And for those of you who think it would be too costly, it will be cheaper than the People Mover and that POS was created! | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1721 Registered: 06-2004 |
Bussey, that's fascinating. What a great idea, and to think that MDOT is so interested in doing this. Where's the picture you poasted on Nov 15 taken? BTW, another example is the post office in Chicago, where the interestate ducks underneath it. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 370 Registered: 04-2006 |
Bussey, if MDOT has a hard time funding buses, road resurfacings, and improvements to the road that make travel safer; and the City of Detroit is so broke that all of us got an across the board $300 tax increase; where is the money going to come from to do this project? I am skeptical. This is low priority in comparison to our other needs. In addition, the job of the Planning Commission is to review changes to property and to review ordinances; not to plan public works. I don't see developing these type of projects as part of their goals. http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/le gislative/BoardsCommissions/Ci tyPlanningCommission/planning_ main_frame.htm | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 350 Registered: 12-2003 |
If you couldn't sense it, I was being slightly sarcastic. But I don't see how it would cost more than installing new bridges? They would have to be much stronger obviously. There are many examples of this around the world. It would do wonders for the Foxtown area alone. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 379 Registered: 04-2006 |
You ASS! you had me going!!! You could make a case for it helping to preserve the newly reconstructed pavement on I-75... hmm skip that no so new anymore, but new in terms of a pavement's life cycle. How ever where to find the extra dough??? The federal transportation enhancement program is not meant for projects of that size. That would be the source I'd think of first. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 603 Registered: 11-2004 |
Get the Feds to pay for it. They paid to put Boston's freeways which were elevated below ground. Why can't they pay to cap ours? | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 351 Registered: 12-2003 |
Amen.. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 382 Registered: 04-2006 |
Even if the feds pay for it, the city and state have to come up with matching funds and pay for 'non-participating costs'. When you have to decide what to ask for, don't you think better transit, safer roads and smoother pavement are higher priorities? At least there are some impervious surfaces in many parts of those freeways. This helps collect rain water. What would you do with all the runoff caused by building these bridges? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2006 |
You couldn't simply put a bridge over I-75 that could hold buildings. It would likely need to be a much deeper depth than the average road bridge. Therefore, the freeway would probably have to be dug even lower. Another 'Big Dig'? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 386 Registered: 04-2006 |
who said anything about putting buildings on top of a freeway?? I'm pretty sure that FHWA would be against that, as they paid for the right of way that built the roads. I am also sure that post 9-11 un-needed tunnels will be a thing of the past too. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 280 Registered: 03-2006 |
so what would go on a proposed 75 cap? a park? | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1722 Registered: 06-2004 |
<---------Never speaking to Bussey again... | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 353 Registered: 12-2003 |
oh lighten up | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 292 Registered: 07-2005 |
yeah, a park, pretty much. A nice little grass area with some benches and some trees, and maybe a flower bed. Probably some weird looking public art too. I think it would be really cool if freeways got capped. I don't know if it's billions-of-dollars cool though. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 83 Registered: 07-2006 |
while i'd love to see a park, i would honestly expect, if built, it would be nothing more than a billion dollar parking lot for the stadiums and fox theater. that said, it would still be better than it is now. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 354 Registered: 12-2003 |
amen | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 606 Registered: 11-2004 |
There is a very similar proposal in LA the capping of an depressed freeway. The estimated cost for the half mile is $209 million http://www.latimes.com/news/lo cal/la-me-hollywood1nov01,1,68 33167.story | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 390 Registered: 04-2006 |
hmm only 1/5 of a billion per freeway. How would you handle the interchanges? | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1045 Registered: 12-2005 |
This may sound like a goofy idea. Would covering freeways with aircraft runways be at all practical? | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 355 Registered: 12-2003 |
why runways? | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1046 Registered: 12-2005 |
Sorry, I guess this isn't the correct thread. It just suddenly struck me that both freeways and runways tend to block crossing traffic. They're both long and straight so their geometries match. It seems overlapping the two would minimize the overall traffic blockage in a city. I'm curious if this has ever been done. (Message edited by Jimaz on November 19, 2006) | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 356 Registered: 12-2003 |
i seriously hope not. First off you have the over head arterial bridges. Second you have the closely surrounding buildings. Maybe, and this is a big maybe, in a Pre-9/11 world you could somewhat fathom putting runways on top of freeways but never now after what has happened to National Security and airports. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 84 Registered: 07-2006 |
not quite what you are talking about, jimaz, but a road is capped for some of the runways for LAX. the runways cross perpendicular however, not the same direction as the road itself. (after following this thread for a bit, i remembered seeing it in 'gone in 60 seconds') honestly, it really isn't all that feasible. and won't save you all that much space. you still have the terminal(s), taxiways, not to mention large airports have multiple runways. i really don't think the additional cost of building the caps would be justified in any way. not to mention security issues, as bussey pointed out. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1050 Registered: 12-2005 |
Well, like I said, it was a goofy idea. Maybe better suited for a newer city. |
