  Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 771 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hopefully they know something about Humberto Sanchez's injury because he is now a Yankee along with two other minor leaguers | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 1408 Registered: 11-2003 |
Seems like a lot prospects for 38 year old hitter, he did have big years in 2005 and 2004. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5983 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great trade. The rumors I heard the other day had Wilfredo Ledezma going to NY in the trade. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 496 Registered: 02-2006 |
Details: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20061110/NEW S99/61110019 I found this link on the Tiger Talk thread, from Knocturnal. | ||
Rusty Member Username: Rusty Post Number: 423 Registered: 10-2003 |
Damn, DD must know something we don't.....because that is a lot to give up for a 38 year old 1st baseman. This must (hopefully) also mean Bonderman, Zumaya, Rodney, Verlander, Robertson,and Miller are ALL going to be around for a looooooong time. Open your wallet Mr. I. Sanchez (probably 1st) and Whelan (top 20) are both near the top of the national prospect list. (Miller also up there). | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2006 |
Sanchez has elbow trouble. Great trade, we need that power bat. | ||
Rusty Member Username: Rusty Post Number: 424 Registered: 10-2003 |
Unless the elbow is permanently damaged, they gave up too much. Those three and a position player like Monroe could have probably landed Tajada.......The quote "you can never have too much pitching" will show itself again when an injury (or two) forces the Tigers to start scouring the waiver wire again. I would have kept him in the pen (similar to Lariano) and moved him into Roger's spot after next year. Then let Miller and Moroth fight for the fifth spot. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2006 |
When you have an elbow injury at that young of an age, it almost ALWAYS re-occurs throughout the career. The tigers still have plenty of pitching depth, and a big bat was a big need for the team. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 412 Registered: 01-2006 |
Sounds good to me. Having a guy who is about to turn 38 around for three years may be a little scary, but up to this moment, he has shown absolutely no sign of decline. Even if he retired today, he is a totally legitimate Hall Of Fame candidate. If you don't believe me, look it up. Sheffield is a rock-solid hitter, for both average (.297) and power (455 HR's, 418 2B's.) Sanchez? Yeah, whatever. We may live to regret that part of this move, but you can't make big, meaningful moves if you try to cling to every prospect who may turn out to be worthwhile. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5984 Registered: 10-2003 |
It will be fun to watch a player chasing 500 too.. | ||
Rugbyman Member Username: Rugbyman Post Number: 65 Registered: 06-2005 |
I think this is a pretty damn solid move. I mean, what's to say that Shef won't be the next Rickey Henderson in terms of longevity (or Julio Lugo, for that matter)? Moving him to DH now before another whole season of playing the field can play havoc with his body will likely milk productivity for two, if not the entire three years left on his contract. If you ask me, this is clearly a move that shows that the Tigers are coming into next season demanding nothing less than a WS trophy. It'll be interesting to see what move they make to cover first base (Guillen to first, Soriano to Short- ha). Overall, great move; I just wish he was a lefty. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 557 Registered: 11-2003 |
It sounds good to me. He's the big bat that strikes fear in the other team that the Tigers need. Over the past years the Tigers have had promising young pitchers like Matt Anderson, Nat Cornejo, Franklin German, Seth Greisinger, and Mike Drumright who didn't do much at all. I'm not going to get bent out of shape about losing two guys I've never heard of who haven't pitched above A ball. My guess is that Sanchez had to be traded this year. If he pitched next year and became injured again the Tigers wouldn't be able to get anything for him in a trade. Without the arm trouble Sanchez is probably still with the Tigers. http://www.baseball-reference. com/s/sheffga01.shtml | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1121 Registered: 02-2005 |
Sheffield still has talent for sure, but I'm concerned about his effect on the team. He never seems to be happy about where he's playing, how the team is using him, how much money he's making, whether he's getting the respect from management that he thinks he rates, etc. etc. That can really hurt team morale and cohesiveness, and eventually performance. If he has the solid relationship with Dombrowski that the press has played up, it might be good news for the Tigers in '07. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2209 Registered: 02-2005 |
^I'm concerned about chemistry, too. Also, how good of a 1st basemen is he? How injury prone is he? Do we alternate between Casey and Sheffield at 1B/DH? I say we need to keep Casey after his performance in the playoffs. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2006 |
He was on Leylands 97 team, and they have a great relationship. He signed a 2-year extension TODAY, so he is clearly interested in playing here. He'll be fine in the clubhouse. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2210 Registered: 02-2005 |
I retract my last statements. He won't be playing first. That is wild that we gave up that much for a DH. He better be damn good. One thing that I don't like is that we have a DH for three years now. What I wanted to see in the long-run was Maybin in CF, Granderson in RF, and Ordonez at DH. Spiritofdetroit makes a good point...Sheffield did say that he loves DD and JL. CF Granderson 2B Polanco SS Guillen DH Sheffield RF Ordonez C Rodriguez LF Monroe 1B Casey 3B Inge Bench: Thames? Santiago? Infante? Shelton? Definitly Vance Wilson. Call-ups of Maybin and Giarratano? What about Clevlen? | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 558 Registered: 11-2003 |
Leyland said emphatically that he won't play 1st base. He said he'll almost exclusively be used as the DH, occasionally playing in left. Sheffield said he is happy with that because it will extend his career. Sheffield over the years has talked glowingly about Leyland, there's a mutual respect between the two. It sounds as if Sheffield and Leyland have a father/son type of relationship. Leyland read Pudge the riot act in front of the team during spring training when he blew off one of the coaches and I wouldn't expect anything less if Sheffield got out of line. Leyland wouldn't want him here if he thought he was going to be a problem. (Message edited by rjk on November 10, 2006) | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 633 Registered: 02-2006 |
Agreed. Much has been made of the fact that this is Leyland's team, period. As much as the players love him, he's the boss. Everyone knows this, the nation knows this after the playoffs. Sheffield knew what he was getting into, and Leyland knows Sheffield. So I wouldn't worry. As for the bigger picture, I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, but I am giggling about seeing Shef in his batting stance in a Tigers uniform. | ||
Marcnbyr Member Username: Marcnbyr Post Number: 675 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Sanchez (probably 1st) and Whelan (top 20) are both near the top of the national prospect list. (Miller also up there)." Come on....Sanchez was a good prospect for the Tigers, one of their top three....but certainly not the top prospect in all of baseball. That's ridiculous. "The quote "you can never have too much pitching" will show itself again when an injury (or two) forces the Tigers to start scouring the waiver wire again." Again...come on. I fail to see how trading a AA pitcher with a slight shot at being called up and two A ball pitchers with NO CHANCE of being called up next year hurts the team. The Tigers will enter spring training with 5 or more guys legitimately battling for the last spot in the rotation: Maroth, Miner, Miller, Tata, and Ledezma. Don't forget that Jason Grilli and Chad Durbin in Toledo could also start in a pinch if needed. They made this trade and they still have plenty of pitching for next year and beyond. It would take injuries of catastrophic proportions to send Dombrowski to the waiver wire. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 106 Registered: 10-2006 |
To the "38 is washed up crowd" I just have one thing to say: KENNY ROGERS! | ||
Rusty Member Username: Rusty Post Number: 425 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey dude, do your research.....there's a reason the guy started the All Star futures game. As for the other two.....they were definitely two of the top 5 or 6 prospects in the Tiger's system (Maybin and Miller being the others). Whelan was supposed to be the next great closer with Verlander and Zumaya in the starting rotation. Hopefully a majority of us are wrong (ESPN poll states 70% agree Yankees got enough) and Sheffield hits 35 home runs. Also, lets hope they sign Bonderman and Robertson to long term deals. Otherwise you will have Grilli and Durbin starting......and thats NOT a good thing. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2937 Registered: 10-2003 |
To me this is a good move. Sheffield is a terrific hitter. He is also a solid pro. ANY good DH is gonna be costly, DET is the pennant winning team, they are gonna have to spend $$ to keep it up. Giving up an AA and 2 A ball pitchers on a team top heavy with pitching talent at the pro and AAA level is no concern. (Note the job of nearly all A ball pitchers is to pitch to the position players, these are not generally pro prospects, AA is nearly the same thing.) The ONLY downside is the trade sorta helps out NY as it gets him off their team where he was unhappy but since we are not giving them anything that will help them anytime soon that is almost a good thing, I could imagine some other team trading something more valuable to NY for Sheffield so in that sense it is ok. Unrelated to his hitting talent, Sheffield is also an entertaining player to watch closely as IMO he is one of these throwback players (like Jim Thome and Dontrell Willis) that look like they could have been playing pro ball 50 60 70 years ago. IT is like a time warp. Sheffield even has a strange cadence to his speech that you don't hear much outside of some parts of the gulf coast which gives him even more of an oldtime baseball touch. All in all a fun player to watch and a good addition to the team. | ||
Marcnbyr Member Username: Marcnbyr Post Number: 676 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rusty, I'm not saying they weren't good prospects, I think they were - but you have to give to get. Sanchez may have started the Future's game, but that just makes him one of the top prospects for his given team (like I said, top 3, behind Maybin and Miller). There is a HUGE difference though between being a top team prospect, and the top prospect in all of baseball. That is where I'm disagreeing with you. I also disagree with your assertion that the Tigers will be scouring the waiver wire for pitchers...not with their depth. Bottom line: the Tigers acquired a talent the caliber of Gary Sheffield, and they didn't give up a player off their major league roster. While there are some legitimate concerns about Sheff (health, attitude), I still can't see how this can be considered a bad deal. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 415 Registered: 01-2006 |
And if I hear, or read, ONE MORE person using the tired, over-used term "cancer in the clubhouse," I am going to puke. ("He was Lights Out" is another one.) But, speaking of the clubhouse issue, keep in mind that cancer probably thrives in the Yankee clubhouse. That clubhouse is probably like a fuckin' petri dish full of fruit-juicy agar for cancer. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3989 Registered: 11-2004 |
This proves to me that the Tigers see the window of opportunity NOW and they're gonna roll the dice and go for it. And why not? They made it to the finals last year and if they can even come close to repeating it, Sheffield could be the Tigers what Rasheed was to the Pistons. Nice move Dave Dombrowski. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1578 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sanchez was not even top 5 in the Tigers organization. The Tigers soured on his climbing weight and his shoulder and Elbow problems. Also while dominate at AA he was ordinary at AAA. The other two players are closers and being a closers in A ball is not a great sign, that means you do not have the stuff to be a starter. And if a closer is in your top ten you have a sad minor league system. Three unknowns for a known hitter, make the deal from a position of strength and one thing DD knows is how to draft and develop power pitchers which is why the Tigers have a shit load of them. Miller, Jarrgins and Cruz are all bigger prospects than Sanchez in their minds. | ||
Rusty Member Username: Rusty Post Number: 426 Registered: 10-2003 |
Then why was he the centerpiece of multiple trade rumors last year (Abreu and Soriano)......Each team asked for him at the trade deadline and DD declined each and every time. I do not believe you can argue the point that Sanchez and Whelan are not top prospects. Now, will they actually pan out, I guess we shall see. IMO, I would rather see the Tigers be competitive the next 10+ years and continue hording young starting pitching. Then when Pudge, Guillen and Polanco start to show their age, they can trade a few of the arms for players who are actually in their prime (Cabrera, Soriano, Tejada type players). Sheffield is too old and too much of a defensive liability for what they gave up. I hope it works out but I believe DD could have done much better. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 637 Registered: 02-2006 |
A designated hitter can be a defensive liability? | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 109 Registered: 04-2006 |
Sanchez was one of the top pitchers in the Tiger minor league organization, but the Tigers could deal him because Andrew Miller pretty much fell into their lap because of signablilty issues that the Royals had with him. I don't believe the Phillies and the Tigers were ever close for a deal. The money wasn't right. Abreu would have made over 20+ million for next year alone and the Phillies did not want to pick up much, if at all, of Abreu's salary. The Nationals were asking too much for Soriano (not just Sanchez) considering that he was in the last year of his deal, and resigning him was slim. Once Sanchez had arm problems, any deal with him in it would go out the table, luckily, the Pirates went into salary dump mode and gave us Casey for a light-throwing AA righty. Sanchez was never part of a deal to either one of these players straight-up. He was always packaged. You can't just keep these young pitchers in the organization, sooner or later, you'll have to either play them if you think that they are part of your organization's future plans, or you'll have to trade them to fill a need. Dombrowski won't change his drafting strategy, there will be plenty of hard-throwing pitchers coming through the organization. They scout it thoroughly in the colleges and high schools. Lastly, for some people, you can't make deals worrying if the young pitchers you are trading are going to be the next Smoltz. I know it is a condition of Tiger fans that the people they trade will perform better outside of the organization (because in the past, especially in the Randy Smith days, they would). Is it too much for Sheffield...maybe, but a hitter of Sheffield's caliber can do nothing but help the lineup, and considering that he is primarily a DH, he won't affect the defense of this team, for better or for worse. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 3991 Registered: 11-2004 |
Simply put, the Tigers have done so well in the draft as of late, they've got a huge surplus of arms. These arms have value to other teams. While somewhere down the line Sanchez MIGHT pan out, I think the window to win it all is here and now and we might as make the best of an asset now. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1582 Registered: 12-2003 |
I can argue it because it is true, Sanchez was not in the top 5 and a relief pitcher is never one of your top prospects. If he is then you have a sad organization | ||
Rusty Member Username: Rusty Post Number: 427 Registered: 10-2003 |
Basically your telling me he isn't in "your" top 5. The guy throws high 90's with a very good slider. Thats better "stuff" than anyone one else in the farm system. Give Miller a "change up" and you may have an argument. As for the surplus of arms, your pretty much throwing all your eggs in one basket with Miller. Tata and Miner are destined for long relief, Cruz is a mystery man (barely over .500) and Jurrjens is nowhere near the power pitcher of Sanchez. In addition, their drafting strategy will have to change at some point the next few years because they have very few position players in the pipeline (please don't try the kirkland and Clevlen routine). WE can argue this point till we're blue in the face but I would have kept Sanchez unless another team wanted to give up a prime time player who actually plays a position. Add Texiera's name to the list above who would have been attainable with Sanchez and a few other prospects (similar to what they gave up). 38 year old DH's are not hard to find nor ATTAIN........just look in RF. (Message edited by RUSTY on November 13, 2006) | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 110 Registered: 04-2006 |
38 year old's of Sheffield's caliber ARE hard to find. You were never going to get a "prime time" (at least what I think the level that you are saying) with Sanchez. At some point you have to see if this person would be a part of your overall team plan. With all the trade talk during the trade deadline, it was pretty clear that Sanchez was expendable. The only way you'll get Tejada is through free agency. Angelos @ Baltimore doesn't want to get rid of him. The signablilty of Soriano after the season was slim to nil. Cabrera makes too little ($370,000) for Florida to really actively sell him to other major league team. The longer you hold onto Humberto, the less his value is, especially if he isn't the same after the injury. |
