  Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3253 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh that's right you said just colleges and goverment hiring would be affected right....
http://detroitnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20061110/P OLITICS01/611100359 (Message edited by detroit_stylin on November 10, 2006) (Message edited by detroit_stylin on November 10, 2006) | ||
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1 Post Number: 504 Registered: 08-2006 |
Well that was a waste of a thread, where's the bump people. | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 403 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's a bit misleading, DS. (Not your post, but the article) What Wilson actually did was tell the legislature to repeal or amend thirty statutes that he thought violated proposition 209. http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/do cs/wilson.9-97.html There are still outreach programs in California. They just can't discriminate. http://www.eaop.org The California Summer Science and Technology Academy also appears to be alive and well. It just can't discriminate. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi- bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=1937654 167+5+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve Contract and money giveaways based on gender or race ARE pretty much a thing of the past. But hey, that presumably is why Prop. 209 was passed in the first place. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 894 Registered: 11-2003 |
Programs to give advantage to minority, female, and any businesses that they might own are blatantly racist......that't the reason that Proposal 2 passed by a landslide. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4685 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah, since women are a race, right? Just shows how much those that passed this viewed this a race issue. Forget, for the millionth time that white women benefited from these programs the most. Seriously, no one wants an honest debate, and thread after thread on this shows that. Remember, everyone, something is only racist if it has the perception of being discriminatory towards those poor, victimized white men. Otherwise, it's not really a big deal, since white men are the most victimized persons in our society. (Message edited by lmichigan on November 10, 2006) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1712 Registered: 10-2004 |
Because the GOP could not get out its conservative base, the modal voter in Michigan was a woman and leaning Democrat. I assume that they voted their own legitimate interests because even Caucasian or Asian women also lose out to blacks, all other factors being equal. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on November 10, 2006) | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 406 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lmich, I wouldn't exactly say "no one." I'll give you an honest debate anytime. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 135 Registered: 08-2006 |
You just wonder how people made it for centuries when this country started about 400 years ago. Immigrants came to this country to find gold, to seek their dreams, to be someone that is proud, hard working and wanted to improve themselves. Show me any designated programs, any give away programs from 100 years ago. Show me any AA programs that existed then. You come to this country, you learn English, you work to put your kids thru school if you were that lucky that your kids didnt have to stop going, only to help support the family Its a joke, this is nothing more that a crutch. Work hard, get educated and stop looking for excuses . Things are not perfect in this country, but how many hundreds of thousands still immigrate here, legally and illegally to find their dream Tomorrow is Armastice/Veterans Day........Thank you to everyone who has served for the last 400 years in the service to fight for this country that enables all of us to seek that dream........ | ||
Mw2gs Member Username: Mw2gs Post Number: 242 Registered: 03-2005 |
Janesback....Are you really interested in what Amerikkka was like for people of African decent 100 years ago? 400 years ago? 50 years ago? But hey....none of that exists now right? All of a sudden the people in power have a change of heart. No....If there are no laws to FORCE people to do the right thing....trust me....people in power would do what best benefits their own kind. If people would have done what was right (i.e the "best" candidate available) AA would have never existed. Wouldnt needed it now. But you see it as set aside programs. (Message edited by mw2gs on November 10, 2006) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4686 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's the very heart of the matter, Mw2gs. This country was dragged kicking and screaming into the Civil Rights Movement. They were FORCED to change. To think that in 40-50 years we've all magically reached the same spot and on the same footing, and that the Civil Rights Movement was the end (not the start, as it really is) is naive, wishful thinking, or someone completely lying to themsevles to justify what happened on Tuesday. You'd have to have your mind totally disassociated with reality to believe that, and pretend not to see how AA is a TINY (but still a massively essential) piece of rebuilding race relation. What Tuesday was was a vote passed with people doing everything within them to disassociate themselves from the reality on the ground, and push back their consciousness, for most, and for a few a way to "stick it to" minorities for fighting for Civil Rights. How dare they have AA in place in the first place. Some people still think it was a favor that they gave, particularly blacks, their freedom. These are the same people (and their indocrinated children: Jim Crow 2.0) that never approved of the Civil Rights Movement or its leaders (i.e. Dr. King), and saw them as trouble-makers. Again, forget that a huge group of white men and white women had to vote AGAINST other white women. If they had to be sacrificed to wipe away race-based AA, they were more than happy to throw the rest of the white women under the bus. This vote, and many replies all across this board, show what the other side's main motivations were. And, it wasn't primarily a slap at those that benefitted from AA the most, which is not a surprise, at all. I guess Michigan, California, and Washington are the shinning beacons of fairness and the rest of the country (i.e. the liberal bastions of Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and the rest include) have it all wrong. It's ironic how we can vote to throw ourselves back in time while even the formerly backwards amongst us continue to move forward. | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 538 Registered: 08-2004 |
Janesback.. You are 100% correct.. BTW the reason this WAS repealed from law BECAUSE of a WOMAN.. Lets not forget that.. this is not a man that made this happen.. It was a woman who well qualified and BECAUSE of the color of her skin, she was passed over for less qualified minority individuals at U of M.. THAT is why this passed and that is where is all started.. It is unfortunate that people feel the need to give people preferred treatment because the color of there skin.. They are JUST as smart and intelligent as anyone else.. My grandparents would have ONLY dreamed to have the advantages even the spanish and mexican american have today.. They spoke NO english.. and were FORCED to learn english.. They weren't helped out in any way.. They were a minority. AND YES they were white.. There was no 2 on your telephone to speak to a spanish representative.. Alot of people who were against this bill claimed falsely that in the WORK place you are judged by the color of your skin.. THey would be SUED the second that happened no matter if this legislation was in place or not.. This is NOT to say that racism does NOT exist.. But that was not the point of this bill.. Simple as this.. Everyone no matter what there race, color, sexual orientation, or sex should not be denied a reasonable education or employment, but using quotas and preferred treatment is wrong.. I know this will be a heated debate.. and many will say bad things about me and other people calling us nasty things.. We are not here to debate racism here.. WE all know it exists in ALL forms.. be that white, black, hispanic, arabic, and many many more.. That is not what we are talking about here.. keep to the facts at hand.. (Message edited by digitaldom on November 10, 2006) | ||
Pistonian_revolution Member Username: Pistonian_revolution Post Number: 36 Registered: 05-2006 |
the sense of privilege, arrogance and entitlement and yet at the same time the self righteous victimhood that white americans carry with them never ceases to amaze me. the fact that they think THEY are being discriminated against by affirmative action is hilarious. it almost makes me say "now how does it feel??". but then i realize that affirmative action in no way discriminates against white men. they're only claiming to feel this way. i'd like to see how they'd react if they actually were enslaved or oppressed, or discriminated against the way other ethnicities were in america over the past 400 years. if maybe just for a day, blacks, latinos and arabs were the majority in america- and white men were a hated minority. if the universities only admitted those with dark skin, and whites lived in segregated ghettos with only the worst jobs. i wonder who would demand some form of affirmative action then. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 136 Registered: 03-2006 |
The reason that all affirmative action programs are patently unfair is this. The intention of them is to somehow remedy supposed institutional racism. So, if a university "discriminated" against a certain group of individuals in the past, they now are expected to “favor” members of that same group to make up for past unfairness. The problem with this approach is that it is the institution whose past policies who were at fault, not potential new students. To penalize potential new students for the mistakes of the institution is idiotic, the people who are passed over in favor of minorities did nothing wrong. The other problem of course is that the minority students who were supposedly discriminated against in the past get nothing either! It seems if you are going to try and remedy the sins of the past, the institution should compensate the people they discriminated against in the past. The notion that you can somehow “level the playing field” by artificially promoting less qualified people over more qualified sends the exact wrong message to society. First of all it reinforces racism by causing resentment amongst those who were passed over, and it minimizes the efforts of those in the minority by giving the impression that they are inferior and need favoritism to get ahead. It basically says race is more important than intellect, ability and hard work. A great example of this is that under the Coleman Young administration, after the 1967 riots, it was decided that the ethnic mix of the Detroit Police Force did not reflect that of the community it was serving. So, a goal was set to create a 50/50 mixture of black and white officers on the force. To achieve this, the requirements for new recruits were reduced because they initially didn’t have enough qualified black applicants to achieve their goal. In addition white officers on the police force were passed over for promotion. Needless to say, this caused distrust and dissension in the ranks of the police force, mostly along racial lines. As a result, some white police officers sued the department for discrimination. Some cases went into the federal courts and even as high as the supreme court, which declined to hear the case. The district court ruled in favor of the white policeman but that decision was overturned in a federal court who said that until the 50% quota was reached, there was no real discrimination against the white officers, which many saw as a flawed decision. The reason was it was flawed is that the defendant in the case was the City of Detroit, the white officers were the plaintiffs. If there was past discrimination against blacks, it was the Detroit Police Department who committed the discrimination. To penalize the white officers who had done their job, had the qualifications, and who put in all of that time on the force only to be held back for years to supposedly make amends for something the City of Detroit had done was idiotic on its face. Other than that, the people have spoken. The other side should acknowledge that they have lost their fight and stop talking about lawsuits to prevent Prop 2 from going into effect. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on November 11, 2006) | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 760 Registered: 10-2003 |
White women have reaped the most benefits from existing AA policies, so why are you fighting against a change to these policies? Debbie Stabenow and Jennifer Granholm hold two of the most powerful positions in Michigan. Despite the lack of economic progress during their last terms, both of these women soundly defeated their male opponents in the recent elections. Women also outnumber men in Michigan colleges, so there no problem there... Debbie Stabenow, Jennifer Granholm, and the thousands of outstanding female graduates from Michigan universities do not need AA programs to help them compete with their male counterparts, and any suggestion that these women needed AA programs is very insulting. Jennifer Granholm beat Dick Posthumous and Dick DeVos straight up, issue for issue, person to person. Debbie Stabenow did the same thing, so don't try to degrade them by suggesting that they couldn't have done it without the help of an AA program. ------------- | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 145 Registered: 01-2004 |
I promise anti-affirmative action supporters, I won't be rebutting every other hour. I just want to comment on some things said...so I won't necessarily be in the back-and-forth debate. I am usually a very sporadic poster because this stuff can take up a lot of time  . 1. I learned an encouraging, and interesting fact about the real impact of losing affirmative action. In Michigan, apparently the University of Michigan is the only public college or university that takes race into consideration when assessing applicants. And, no state agency has had to use affirmative action in 3 years. I still support affirmative action, but for those who I argued with in other threads I will admit that in these respects that the need for affirmative action may be diminishing. However, this does make it seem a little silly that so many have claimed that Blacks are "taking their spots." 2. Jennifer Gratz applied in 1995, was offered to be placed on the U of M wait list and she declined. In 1995, every person on the wait list was admitted. With a little patience she would not have been "passed over." 3. Blacks and other minorities were not the only ones with a lower GPA or ACT scores than Jennifer Gratz. The University of Michigan has always had a wide range of scores/grades within each racial group. As reported when this case was in the supreme court, there were plenty of White applicants with low quantitative qualifications. Also, don't forget that essays, writing samples, references, and sometimes interviews are also part of the application process (and let's not forget athletic ability while we're at it). Can she really tell she was more qualified in these aspects? 4. The vast majority of legal immigrants today are relatively wealthy/educated in their countries of origin. Self sufficiency (or at least a strong support network of economically successful people) is usually required for immigrants. This is why African and Afro-Caribbean immigrants are more economically successful than American Blacks (even though both foreign born and native born Blacks are still restricted in opportunities compared to other ethnic groups). So, it is unfair to say that if new immigrants can succeed than Blacks should be able to. Also, this ignores the inequality that women experience. 5. European immigrants from the past had to gradually become "White" in the eyes of "White America." At one time, Southern and Eastern Europeans, European Jews, and the Irish were seen as being part of different races than American Whites...and this is well documented. Gradually, these groups became part of the White designation. Look at Jews. When Jews were considered to be a very distinct race, they had limited opportunities outside of the Jewish community, were considered criminals (think Purple Gang), and natural athletes (think Hank Greenberg). Once they became white, these stereotypes disappeared. Asians in the past were heavily discriminated against (limited number of immigrants and forced ghetto life). Asians did not have the opportunity to advance outside of their ghettos. It has not been until recently when well educated immigrants have arrived that Asians have made inroads into mainstream American society. 6. Sometimes diversity is needed, and should be promoted by active means. For example, during our current era of terror, many government agencies are seeking out Middle Easterners who speak Arabic to act as interrogators, agents, and advisors. Would it make sense to hire a suburban White man because his test scores were higher? Many other agencies are involved in community outreach, and right or wrong, the average person responds best to people they can relate to. 7. I wish more people would define what they mean by "qualified." At U of M, you are qualified to attend if you have like a 2.5 and an 18 on your ACT. I guess someone can be more qualified than another, but everyone who is accepted by U of M is qualified to be there. That is usually the same for certain jobs that have promotions tests, there are minimum quantitative qualifications that must be met. In either case, qualitative measures are used in conjunction. People typically give heavy influence to qualitative measures in terms of applications(if they know the person, references, interviews, past experiences, health status, personality). But people do this in other aspects as well...that's why people tend to vote for a president they want to have a beer with (according to some political analysts). 8. I don't think its right to forget the history of this country, with its long established history of discrimination against Blacks, Hispanics, American Indians, and even women. To claim that everything should be equal under the law completely ignores the history of privilege for White men and how the contemporary passing down of privilege is usually to White men. To say that privilege should be better distributed to match the makeup of society is not racist...if all was fair this should automatically be the case. And I don't want to hear any statements like "some people are just smarter or better, and its unfair to hold them back," because you are implying that White men are naturally smarter or better than all women and minorities (which there is no legitimate scientific evidence that this is the case). (Message edited by Zug on November 11, 2006) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1466 Registered: 06-2004 |
too bad none of your links on this and the other thread don't work... It used to be (don't know if it still is) that the City of Detroit gave preference to minority contractors. Also, some bank or SBA funding was dedicated to minority startups. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3062 Registered: 08-2004 |
What a pathetic way to "up ones post count".... Just because he got slapped with opening up a 10 month old thread.... and now he's pouting... Grow up!! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1724 Registered: 10-2004 |
"Sometimes diversity is needed, and should be promoted by active means. For example, during our current era of terror, many government agencies are seeking out Middle Easterners who speak Arabic to act as interrogators, agents, and advisors. Would it make sense to hire a suburban White man because his test scores were higher?" Another dumb-ass rationalization. But no dice on this account, either. Both Jews and Arabs are Caucasians as far as the US government is concerned--e.g., the US Census, etc. Try making up some more examples... | ||
Hooha Member Username: Hooha Post Number: 126 Registered: 06-2005 |
Just two comments "...for low-income and minority..." Remove 'minority' and nobody would say boo about any of these programs... and they'd still mostly help their targeted demographic. "women benefited from these programs the most" I see this a lot. What were some affirmative action programs aimed at women? And are they still needed? In all but two states (North Dakota and Colorado), there are more women enrolled in college than men. In the 1990's, colleges averaged a female population 16% higher than that of men. One would assume that these programs are no longer necessary, and that the ball is rolling so fast that gender equality will be achieved without any additional aid. Interestingly enough, there is a growing concern recently about the lack of men attending college. As far as gender is concerned, I think the world is going to change drastically in the next 30 years. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 146 Registered: 01-2004 |
Livernoisyard, I admit, Middle Easterners are considered White according to the US government. But I don't think this is a "dumb-ass rationalization" as you so eloquently stated. It is actually a very sound point that supports the general idea that sometimes diversity is needed. My example was more about ethnic diversity (which affirmative action does take into consideration in some cases), but it is still sound. So you think it is okay to select someone because they have Middle Eastern heritage because they are considered White? But you can't give someone an advantage because they have an African heritage...because this involves race according to the US government? In either case, heritage is used as a criteria...I would think you would be against using heritage to get a job. At least you could make a counterpoint that takes more than 3 seconds to think up. My point actually goes beyond the affirmative action argument: sometimes agencies need to diversify to better address an issue of concern related to a specific group. Any program that involves dealing with a specific group, be it for security or community outreach, typically have better results when people of a similar background are part of the program. Right or wrong, people tend to be more trusting of individuals who they "relate" with. I personally wish this weren't the case, but it is. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1728 Registered: 10-2004 |
"I admit, Middle Easterners are considered White according to the US government. But I don't think this is a "dumb-ass rationalization" as you so eloquently stated. It is actually a very sound point that supports the general idea that sometimes diversity is needed. My example was more about ethnic diversity (which affirmative action does take into consideration in some cases), but it is still sound. So you think it is okay to select someone because they have Middle Eastern heritage because they are considered White? But you can't give someone an advantage because they have an African heritage...because this involves race according to the US government? In either case, heritage is used as a criteria...I would think you would be against using heritage to get a job. At least you could make a counterpoint that takes more than 3 seconds to think up." My striking down some feeble argument (yours?) does not imply that I wanted any set-asides or preferences to any other group, race, or what-not. That's YOUR assumption because everything to you appears to be either "white" or "black." If the government wants somebody with some special talent or another, what is incorrect (political or otherwise) with simply taking the best, irrespective of race or other grounds, which apparently are overly important to you. In zero-sum game scenarios, there are winners and there are LOSERS. In such scenarios, they are no win-win situations, unless sharing is involved. It's most difficult to share a college admission to a public university or a government job when handled on a case-by-case basis when merit is involved. Merit has been forced to take a back seat for many Caucasians for over forty years--with no end in sight either for that type of reverse discrimination. It was about time for that BS to come to its end. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 206 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Both Jews and Arabs are Caucasians as far as the US government is concerned--e.g., the US Census, etc. " Which is why the U.S. Government is stupid... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 207 Registered: 04-2006 |
...and furthermore, you should know that it hasn't always been that way. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 147 Registered: 01-2004 |
To "strike down" my argument by saying that I'm just talking about White people completely ignored the basic point of my argument. How is saying that Middle Easterners are actually White "striking down" my argument? You're the one who made it into a racial argument. Plus, your idea of "zero-sum games" and "merit" never existed, and I think is impossible to have. That's because determining who's the best involves more than just holding up report cards next to each other, conditions in which a person gained qualifications and qualitative measures (subjective) need to be considered. I hope you didn't vote for Bush, because I think there are obviously more candidates with more experience and better qualifications (even in the Republican party). Plus, you are right, everything was fair back when there was forced segregation in our country . (Message edited by Zug on November 13, 2006) | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 519 Registered: 10-2003 |
"2. Jennifer Gratz applied in 1995, was offered to be placed on the U of M wait list and she declined. In 1995, every person on the wait list was admitted. With a little patience she would not have been "passed over."" I applied to Michigan for fall 1995, like Jennifer Gratz. However, my ACT score was four points higher than hers. I turned down my admission in favor of an HBCU ranked several tiers lower. Had Gratz been "qualified" enough, she could have taken my place. But she wasn't. It's too bad that she's still stuck in 1995 and insistent upon ruining the future of kids who did nothing to her. Her beef is with a cohort of 29 year olds, those of us who made up the 1995 SY application pool... not with a 16 year old kid at Cass Tech. Sheesh. I was on the phone with my mother, excited a couple of weeks ago about the potential candidacy of Barack Obama. She scoffed at him even having a chance: "This country can't even enforce Brown vs. Board of Ed. Do you really think they're going to elect that brother?" She was even more convinced of this by the defeat of Harold Ford. Ah, well. As I said in another thread, before I die, people of color will be the majority in the Western world. Fun times, people... hope these cultural dinosaurs enjoy their hegemony while it lasts. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1730 Registered: 10-2004 |
The proposition was not specifically about the Gratz situation. Furthermore, probably the majority of those voting in favor have no knowledge of her or her case. They simply voted in their legitimate self-interests. And many of those who voted NO (and lost) also voted in their legitimate self interests. The NOs lost. Get over it. Many of those YESes did for up to forty years. But the pendulum swung back. Tough! | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 148 Registered: 01-2004 |
Obviously, many of those who voted yes didn't get over it...otherwise this wouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. There has been bitching about affirmative action since it came into existence. I can't believe how defensive some people are when you suggest that <gasp> White men have always had more privileges in America. (Message edited by Zug on November 13, 2006) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1731 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yawn! The former privileges are coming to their ends. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 654 Registered: 10-2003 |
More importantly, How will affect majorities? | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5186 Registered: 02-2004 |
Prop 2 will not effect all minorities. Minorities under the civil right's law have the constitutional right to seek anything they want. | ||
Hit24sqft Member Username: Hit24sqft Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2006 |
More importantly, How will affect majorities?Irish_mafia THANKYOU - Irish_Mafia ! | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1334 Registered: 12-2003 |
Since the State is so worried about an equal academic playing field, how about we eliminate all of those folks getting a bump because Mom or Daddy attended thirty years ago, or those that donated yesterday ? How about an outside agency to eliminate the nepotism and cronyism that runs rampant at Universities, Community colleges, or any gov't entity ? How you ever checked out the family tree in your local gov't ? Check out who runs those snow plows....who is on your County or city road crew....who is inspecting ? You'll be surprised what you will find. A level playing field to these folks consists of the expression, "We do what we want for those who will do what we want". There is no scrutiny of public hiring in Michigan...and there needs to be big-time. I know why this failed, but don't try to tell me the field is now level. It's as crooked as it has ever been. | ||
Jtw Member Username: Jtw Post Number: 101 Registered: 06-2005 |
Zug:
according to UM ( http://www.admissions.umich.ed u/fastfacts.html ), more than half of UM undergrads had a GPA of over 3.9 and an ACT score between 27-31. i'm not sure how you decided on "2.5 and 18" but it's a fact that many people are simply not qualified to attend UM. many people could certainly use a little help to get in if they do not have those qualifications. does that webpage define "qualified" for you? you seem to be missing some facts. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3092 Registered: 10-2003 |
Slavery: America's Affirmative action for whites | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 149 Registered: 01-2004 |
I don't remember the exact numbers, but they are somewhere around what I stated (2.5 GPA, 18 ACT). If you are below them, you are typically not considered qualified to attend U of M. That's why some high school athletes fret about getting an adequate ACT score, because they may not be eligible to attend a high profile university. You're talking about average admittance (most of your stats are from the 50th percentile of the entering class)...I'm talking about what university admissions is saying you must have to be allowed to attend. Granted, most people are well beyond these baseline standards...but U of M has relatively low qualification standards. So, no, I'm not "missing some facts"...you're just focusing on the wrong ones. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 150 Registered: 01-2004 |
http://sitemaker.umich.edu/obp info/common_data_set I haven't read through it all, but here's a full breakdown of the University of Michigan in recent years. Just thought it was interesting, and something to look at, I'm not really using it to make any points. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1733 Registered: 10-2004 |
"Slavery: America's Affirmative action for whites" Yawn! Lines of "thought" like that are not ever known to sway any appellate judges or Supreme Court justices. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 199 Registered: 02-2006 |
I'm still waiting!!!! When will my white privilege kick in??? Most everyone on this site says that I have a distinct advantage in society because of my skin color. Well I spent all day laying sod, shoveling and raking dirt and basically busting my ass for a crappy paycheck. I went to college, got two degrees and good grades and it got me nowhere. What I know is that when I apply for a job and have to check the box that says white/caucasian I feel like my resume and application are going to the bottom of the pile. Under A.A. companies weren't looking for me. Maybe now I can at least get a look. Like a lot of middle class white guys I don't have any connections and I don't know the rich white guy handshake. I have had to get everything on my own. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 151 Registered: 01-2004 |
Unless you were applying to government agencies and universities, you'll probably still get rejected. According to some, it might be a privilege that you even have a job in Michigan. ...just put a check mark in the "African American/Black" box...then sue if they ask you to prove it. They're not going to test your DNA or anything. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 200 Registered: 02-2006 |
Actually I did apply mostly Universities and cities. I also noticed while testing with a couple big companies that I was about the only white face in the room. Yes, I passed the tests before anyone asks. I guess I'm very privileged. I have three jobs. One full time and two part time. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3095 Registered: 10-2003 |
Correct! Livernoisyard....especially when its not necessary. Execurtive order 11246 is still in effect. As well as this decision of Gratz vs. Bollinger, both of which say...AA is here and in effect. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5192 Registered: 02-2004 |
Yes Zulu_warrior, Affirmative Action and quotas is in effect for gender and race, ONLY in most corporate business, but on college registration and other programs. Playing race cards on any person for Affirmative Action reason is a direct violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. | ||
Innovator Member Username: Innovator Post Number: 43 Registered: 07-2006 |
321brian.. lots of qualified people don't have jobs right now. so, yes, you are privileged, in a sense. | ||
Hit24sqft Member Username: Hit24sqft Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2006 |
I'm still waiting!!!! When will my white privilege kick in??? Most everyone on this site says that I have a distinct advantage in society because of my skin color. 321brian >>> I ran into the same problems - I was an over-qualified, over-educated white boy - so I did what any sensible white man does - I started my own business and now I do the hiring and firing, and make a hell of lot more money ! | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5198 Registered: 02-2004 |
...and you better plan a equal and diverse atmosphere without using Affirmative Action by means of race and gender but for experience. | ||
Mongo Member Username: Mongo Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2006 |
If you want AA then make sure professional sports use it as well. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 141 Registered: 08-2006 |
^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ as well as the modeling agencies, i.e, they need to take 200 lb applicants who may have birth defects, Hooters Inc, they need to hire males, Hollywood and the movie industry, they need to hire handicapped actors and actresses, Barnum and Bailey Circus, they need to hire the handicapped, the blind and the hearing impaired. The N.F.L. they need women at the SUPERBOWL who can be defensive guards and quarterbacks, N.B.A, more 4 " 1 Chinese players, B.E.T, they need to hire white , chinese, Indian, Muslim cast members, as well as jesse Jackson should hire more Pakistanese for his Rainbow Coalition........... ------------------------------ ----- Who ever is the best qualified, the one with the best experience and education should receive the job. This comes from a woman who expects to be given a fair shake when it comes to a job or a promotion. Thats all I would want. A fair shake, not an excuse to justify hiring me........ | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 152 Registered: 01-2004 |
...as I said before, you are assuming that affirmative action is for the unqualified. You are acting as if people who are taken under affirmative action are all dumb lightweights who cannot handle their jobs or who are flunking out of college left and right. Government entities don't just hire any minority who applies. Universities don't accept any minority that applies. If someone proves to be unqualified after they are hired or accepted...they are fired or flunk...just like this hypothetical 4'1" Chinese person would likely get cut even if there was affirmative action for him. While some of you are at it, you should push for universities to get rid of their policies on accepting such a high proportion of "unqualified" in-state students which takes spots from "qualified" out-of-state applicants. More highly qualified international students should be accepted too. After all, why should so many unqualified in-state students be given consideration over those deserving non-Michiganders? Stop in-state quotas! End the discrimination based on state citizenship NOW! -------------------- Also, I find it funny how someone who has the opportunity to start their own business is complaining about not having privileges...not every unemployed person have that option. | ||
Hit24sqft Member Username: Hit24sqft Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2006 |
Also, I find it funny how someone who has the opportunity to start their own business is complaining about not having privileges...not every unemployed person have that option. posted by ZUG >>> Are you referring to my post ? I don't recall complaining about not having privledges. And I don't pay any attention to AA laws or any other "employment protocols" - I require every applicant to show up in person with resume, ready to interview and ready to work. There are always ways around these fascist laws if you try hard enough. If the situation becomes unbearable, then I will just close the business, lay everyone off and retire. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 153 Registered: 01-2004 |
My mistake...when you said you had the same problem as 321Brian I thought you meant you were waiting for your privileges. | ||
Hit24sqft Member Username: Hit24sqft Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2006 |
My mistake...when you said you had the same problem as 321Brian I thought you meant you were waiting for your privileges. >>>The only priviledge I have ever asked for is the priviledge to work hard | ||
Mongo Member Username: Mongo Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2006 |
While some of you are at it, you should push for universities to get rid of their policies on accepting such a high proportion of "unqualified" in-state students which takes spots from "qualified" out-of-state applicants. More highly qualified international students should be accepted too. After all, why should so many unqualified in-state students be given consideration over those deserving non-Michiganders? Stop in-state quotas! End the discrimination based on state citizenship NOW! Our state colleges and university are for us first, then out of staters then international students. Also allow international students to only take certain degrees. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3299 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.blackenterprise.com /exclusivesekopen.asp?id=2002 | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3301 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hmmmm... Maybe the successful passage of Prop 2 can positively affect this... http://www.blackenterprise.com /ExclusivesEKOpen.asp?id=2036 |
