Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Lodge Shutting Down « Previous Next »
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Psip
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Post Number: 1297
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WXYZ reported that the JC Lodge will be shutting down for a complete overhaul. It is closing in January 07 and is scheduled to reopen by Labor Day.
All pavement and bridges to be replaced.
MORE......
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Beadgrl
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Post Number: 39
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From where to where? What section?
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Psip
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Post Number: 1298
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correction: February not January
http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_lo cal_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_1 5924_5142855,00.html
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Ray1936
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Post Number: 916
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boy, that's gonna be one mess. Today's News and Freep also have articles on it.
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Beadgrl
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Post Number: 40
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great....hmmph! They just finished the Northwestern part a few months ago and here we go again. Have to take the back way to work again.
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Dialh4hipster
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Post Number: 1846
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't they just re-do the Lodge? I guess it was a while ago, now that I think about it.

Seriously, what the fuck is the deal with freeways here? It's NEVER smooth sailing.
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Detroitnerd
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Post Number: 735
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of the bridges are the original ones put up in the forties and fifties, I think.
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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 356
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its going to be reconstructed in Southfield and resurfaced in Detroit. Work will begin around I-94 and go all the way up to nearly Telegraph.

This is badly needed as the pavement in Southfield is falling apart. Expect it to be done in similar fashion to the I-96/I-94 jobs a couple of construction seasons ago.

Good alternatives exist and include Hamilton, I-96 to Southfield, James Cousins, Livernois to 8 Mile.
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Lowell
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Post Number: 3300
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hooray! Finally that dangerous, broken, car-hammering stretch will be fixed. Bring it on, I can endure.
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Psip
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recall that in the late 60s when I was learning to drive, the word on the streets was that NASA and GM were using 8 Mile to simulate the surface of the moon for Rover development.
I had that same feeling a few weeks ago while driving downtown via the Lodge.
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Zulu_warrior
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Post Number: 3091
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's Autobahn will never be the same....
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Detroitnerd
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Post Number: 736
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Lodge and Ford were begun, the Lodge was a stretch of freeway from downtown to the Ford, with the Ford extending west to the old industrial freeway, which ran from Willow Run to the Rouge complex. If I recall right, they were built before the Eisenhower-signed interstate freeway act.

At the time, Detroit was lauded for being ahead of the curve, and there was a nice photo spread in Fortune magazine that enumerated how many homes, apartment buildings and industrial structures had to be torn down for its construction. Finding this piece, I found myself shaking my head thinking of all the stuff that had to be ripped down, including the train station at 3rd and Fort. I'd sacrifice the Lodge in a heartbeat to have a downtown train station today!

Anyway, it's interesting that the oldest bridges don't seem to be slated for replacement.
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Spidergirl
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Post Number: 236
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hipster....it's never smooth sailing because it's Michigan and the sucky weather impacts the roads.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 3075
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I hope they repave the Lodge correctly. For the last 6 weeks I-94 out east between 9 & 10 Mile Road intermittently has had lanes shut down due to drainage reconstruction.

Whole sections of shoulder and a few patches of roadway have been ripped up and replaced, due to poor drainage issues from a repaving 2 years ago.

I wonder what contractor got sued for messing that up originally.
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Ndavies
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I wonder what contractor got sued for messing that up originally.




Road construction companies won't be sued for messing up a road in Michigan. The issue belongs to MDOT. They do the engineering and the road specification. The powerful road construction lobby has had legislation enacted that keeps the construction companies from being held liable.
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Bob
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Post Number: 1223
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That section of the Lodge needs to be fixed, and if they don't shut it down it will take double the time. Although what I would not give to have a beautiful mass transit system in place of our freeway system.
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 374
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

... all the stuff that had to be ripped down, including the train station at 3rd and Fort




I believe that the expressway was tunnelled underneath the old train station. It was torn down later and eventually the WCCC facility was built there.
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Detroitkate
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not only is it the weather, but its the weight limits we set on trucks. My ex-boyfriends father worked for the company that made the scales that are used at the weigh stations. He told me that the weight limits in MI are MUCH higher than anywhere else which leads to more wear on our roads. That combined with the weather leads to so many road problems. Interstate trucking companies actually make it a point to drive through MI if it is feasable b/c they can carry more load.
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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 358
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you notice the pedestrian plaza of WC3 you will see that its girders are a very solid 5 or six foot tall I-beams typically used for train traffic.

The trains into downtown ran after the Lodge was open. The parking garage of JLA was built to have a train station in it to replace this one. People would have gotten off here for games, or for work, then take the people mover or habitrail over to the CBD.
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Psip
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Union Depot wasn't torn down until the early 70's.
You are correct about the RR overpass and the WC3 plaza.
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Jjw
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Post Number: 196
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hmmmm--maybe the smarter thing to do would be to close it permanently and replace it with a train. there are plenty of other freeways to get into downtown. i have an idea this one isn't going to go over big.
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Jams
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Articles from the Detroit Free Press and Detroit News concerning the final days of Fort Street Union Depot, Detroit



Compiled by Jeff Feldmeier

http://www.michiganrailroads.c om/RRHX/Stories/FSUD-TheFinalD ays.htm
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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 359
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Close the college and use IT as a train depot while there is space for one 100 feet away???

No.

The poor and inner city folks need college more so than anyone else. As a person who attended college there for a year, I can tell you it is definitely needed for those who fall through the cracks.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Road construction companies won't be sued for messing up a road in Michigan. The issue belongs to MDOT. They do the engineering and the road specification. The powerful road construction lobby has had legislation enacted that keeps the construction companies from being held liable."


I agree on this. I did some 30-hr, part-time work sessions during those weekends on I-94 from Mount Elliot to French and on the three mile stretch of the Lodge the next year near Eight Mile. [It's weird driving my Honda CRX on the freeways without any traffic other than the construction crews.]

MDOT's civil engineers are almost always around to monitor any progress. If there's any FUs, blame them.
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Vic_doucette
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will they be able to widen the shoulders?
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3rdworldcity
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Post Number: 333
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My initial thought that this was an early April Fool joke.

Apparently, it will take an entire "construction season," whatever that means.

I don't use the Lodge, but I-75 and/or Woodward (which I do use) will be gridlocked. Did anyone consider the cost in lost time, grief and aggravation? However, as an oil producer, I am thrilled by the countless millions of gallons of extra gasoline which will be burned by drivers stuck in traffic, and on top of that, have to drive several miles to reach alternate routes.

Does one wonder why everyone than can is leaving Detroit?
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Eric
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Post Number: 594
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


So the state paving roads that that need it, is why people are leaving Detroit? Only you could turn a long overdue investment in infrastructure, into a reason to bash Detroit.





(Message edited by eric on November 14, 2006)

(Message edited by eric on November 14, 2006)
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3rdworldcity
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Post Number: 334
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not only me. I just called an associate whose offices are in the Penobscot, and he employees 6 highly paid people there. His lease is terminating 12/31. He's been vascillating between staying downtown and moving to Beverly Hills (where he lives.) I've told him he ought to stay in Detroit. I just called him w/ this development, of which he was unaware. He said, "Great, that's what I needed to hear to make up my mind to move. Thank's for the head's up."

If they didn't build the expressways out of concrete, the principal ingredient of which is corn meal mush, they wouldn't have to rebuild them every summer or so.

Toronto has the same weather as Detroit and they have far less road reconstruction than Detroit. They know how to build them.

I'm not bashing Detroit. Detroit does not have anything to do w/ it. The idiots who work for MDOT and its actual parent organization, The Michigan Roadbuilder's Association, are the culprits.

[Eric: Tell us the truth; aren't you thoroughly pissed? Or, don't you work downtown?]
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Eric
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't work downtown, but I do use the Lodge quite a bit. I'm more sick and tired of the potholes and trust me if you drove the Lodge frequently you would be. So the inconvenience of the shut down is worth it, if I don't worry about possibly chipping a tooth every time I get on that freeway.
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Toog05
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here another link concerning the lodge shutdown

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20061114/NEW S99/61114017/1012/NEWS10
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3rdworldcity
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Post Number: 335
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fair enough.

I believe the adverse financial impact on downtown Detroit will be extremely high. Way beyond the adverse financial impact and inconvenience caused to commuters.

Consider the 1000's of suburbanites who will forego the casual, recreational trips to downtown functions, restaurants, sporting events etc. in order to avoid he hassle of driving to an alternate route and fighting the increased traffic on those alternae routes to get downtown.

You refer in your post to "long overdue investment in infrastructure." Doesn't that upset you? The MDOT specs require minimum construction standards, permit inferior materials to be used (although cheaper) and then don't maintain the inferior product.

One would think Kwame would be outraged.

Oh, I just talked w/ a friend whose civil engineering firm has been working on he project and she told me the construction time will be a minimum 7 months. Incredible.
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Fortress_warren
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SURF'S UP ON THE LODGE!!!!!!! Dick Purtan reference. You sprouts, won't get this, never will, never did.
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Cmubryan
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Live downtown work in Southfield=screwed.

The saving grace is that I go opposite rush-hour so I hope 75/696 won't be too jammed.

Those poor, poor souls who live out in the NW burbs and work downtown...The Lodge is bad enough in rush hour I can't even imagine doubling it with all the traffic on 75/696!!!
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Malcovemagnesia
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Lodge was completely closed and fully repaved (and bridges rebuilt) in 2000 or 2001, wasn't it? I remember "M-10 Detour" signs on Woodward and I-94...

Is there a 4-5 year warranty on these paving jobs, or does it go out to the lowest cost, thinnest/cheapest construction materials bidder?
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most states limit truck weights to 80,000 pounds, whereas Michigan allows trucks up to 164,000 pounds. Trucks of heavy weight do considerable damage, especially during springtime when the frost recedes.

It's my guess that all of the original interstate highways lasted much less than originally planned during the 1950s and 1960s. At one time, the highways in most states were limited to 73,000 pounds--as it was when I drove tractor-trailers during the early 1970s.
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Detroitplanner
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The lodge was closed S of I-75 for a complete reconstruction. It was done in about five months.

You folks are acting like road rebuilding is something new. For petes sakes don't get your panties in a bunch about it. Just be glad it is getting fixed.
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Lowell
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...Michigan allows trucks up to 164,000 pounds."

This is through complicity of both parties, Repubs through the owners and auto companies, Dems through the Teamsters and, yes, the auto companies. We the public get the shaft.

Why no one takes this on this cabal befuddles me. It has to be a winning issue for some candidate, less broken roads, safer roads, smoother rides and more jobs for truckers and more traffic moved to rail.

That said, the Lodge bears very little truck traffic. I can sometimes drive for a couple of miles at time without seeing one. Its lack of center shoulders and kamikaze entrance ramps make it scary in parts and if it had truck traffic, it would really be mess.
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Steelworker
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Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

believe you me truckers go over that weight limit more than you know.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdworldcity wrote, "she told me the construction time will be a minimum 7 months. Incredible."

Why is that incredible, especially when you factor in some 50 bridge renewals? About as much time was spent back in 1987 reconstructing the Lodge from Meyers to I-75. By the way, that stretch has remained pretty damned smooth since then! People, remember that the next time you complain about roads falling apart after 4 or 5 years.

From Lahser to 8 Mile, the Lodge has its original, early 1960s crumbling pavement. It definitely needs replacement.

From 8 Mile to Meyers, it has its original mid to late '50s pavement-- but with many joints redone and everything nicely scraped & smoothed. I don't understand why that section will apparently be totally reconstructed.
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Ray1936
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, the part of the Lodge in "the canyon" between 8 mile and Wyoming was built in the early sixties. From Wyoming east and south it was, indeed, built in the fifties.
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Jerome81
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wasn't the Lodge re-done within the last 3 years or so? I seem to remember when I was there in 2003 that that freeway was literally pothole heaven. The Lodge and the Ford west of downtown out to about Telegraph were about on the same level, and that was god-awful.

When I drove on the Lodge over the last couple months, I was nearly certain they had re done at least something on it, as it was far smoother than I remember, though the shoulders are as bad as any I have EVER seen.

I understand this is a main north south freeway, and I imagine it is particularly bad for people in Southfield and Detroit. However, if you live in the NW burbs, 275/96 is a very acceptable alternative, and if you live in the north burbs, 75 will work. Of course I'm assuming people are going between burbs and downtown. Those that need to get to Southfield will end up with the bigger headaches.

As to those who complain about the heavy trucks, please remember that for the most part it is a zero-sum game. If you allow 1/2 the weight, you must figure that would put 2x as many trucks on the road (roughly). What's worse? Heavy trucks or lighter trucks but many more on the roads? Not sure I have an answer for that one.

I will give Michigan props though. Glad to see they are fixing/improving the ancient infrastructure. The re-done freeways there are wonderful, far better than our CA freeways in the bay area. I hope other states pay attention, because once again, Detroit is doing things now that other states will need to do in the coming couple decades. They can learn something and hopefully are paying attention.
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Eric
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes parts of the Lodge were worked on a few years, but not the stretch of freeway they intended on closing. Try driving it between 8 mile and Lasher sometime.

Will this include work on the service drives the ones around 8 mile are particularly bad?
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3rdworldcity
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Lowell. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

I can't help thinking that a grat number of benign comments above are made by people relatively unaffected by this upcoming mess.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdworldcity: What is your solution, then? If the state instead kept one lane in each direction open (with resulting much longer construction timeframe), people would complain about that, too. I've driven the Lodge a bunch of times going to class at WSU. I'm all too familiar with the moonscape pavement north of 8 Mile, and the bridges all along the stretch that have wooden planks under them to keep chunks of concrete from falling down.
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Ray1936
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The work likely needs doing. What's a pity is that it won't be done 24/7 like it should be. You won't even see 'em working daytime on weekends.

Granted, 24/7 would cost more, but in view of the massive problem this will create, well worth the extra bucks.
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Keystone
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The State doesn't even call it the Lodge anymore. It's M-10 now.

..."Lodge".. how quaint.

Lots of boring information on why full road closures are so wonderful.
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Bearinabox
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's wrong with Grand River to Southfield or Telegraph? Not quite as direct, but it can't be THAT much slower...
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Ray1936
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Been years since I left town, but the lights on Grand River were always timed beautifully during rush hour, both AM and PM. Once past the Boulevard, you might even nail a pheasant with your grille......
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Burnsie
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keystone-- Well, big new signs were put up this year (in the revised "Clearview" font) saying "Lodge Fwy" at the 696 interchange. Granted, the name "Lodge" (as well as other freeway names) doesn't appear on as many signs as it used to.
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Cmubryan
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't understand why they have continually taken the "Lodge" name off the freeway. It used to say it in a lot more places. Your right Burnsie at least they kept it on the new signs on 696 going east.

I remember seeing old pictures with the name "John C. Lodge Expressway" on signs for the expressway.

Lodge isn't the only one with the identity issue. Reuther Fwy, Chrysler, Fisher,Ford, Jeffries all are slowly losing their identities.
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Jerome81
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Better to close it and get it done. Otherwise it'd just drag on and on. I wish they'd do it in CA like they do in MI. Shut it down and get it finished.

And at least you get service drives on your highways. Essentially you can take the same route if you want, just not on the highway.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, thanks for the corrections about the depot at Fort and Third. I'm going to be looking for those girders next time I'm out there. I still, however, would sacrifice the Lodge to have a downtown train terminus.
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6nois
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Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As someone who depends on the Lodge, this will be a pain, but it is worth it in the end to have the highway fixed. Now in contrast Detroitnerd I wouldn't want to lose that highway because it is my lifeline meaning that I live four blocks from it in Detroit and I use it to get almost everywhere.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, 6nois, it's a selfish wish and I'll cop to it. Keep the Lodge, but give me my frickin' downtown train station!

If there were no Lodge, however, I'd hope you'd have some decent streetcar service on Second and Third. Oops, can't do that because of Anthony Wayne Drive. And, oops, can't do that because of 75 cutting off Third at old Cass Tech. And, oops, can't do that because of the casino superblock. Oops, oops, oops. I do see the point about the perils of either/or thinking, but the higgeldy-piggeldy development, superblocking, meat-cleaver clearing for freeways, etc., all sure left us without decent through streets for other possibilities.

Grrrrr. Damn Cobo canals!
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 340
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie: You asked me what my "solution" is. First, I only drive the Lodge round trip once a week from downtown to Andiamo on Telegraph. I don't think it's nearly that bad to require a total rebuilding over 7 + months. But since MDOT would tear the whole thing up again next year if they could get enough tax dollars to do that and pass along to the Michigan Road Builders Association, I suppose we can't stop this year's work.

However, I agree w/ Ray1936 that the thing to do is work 24/7 and just get it done. Granted, it would cost more but not nearly as much as the wasted time, gas and lost work hours (millions) which will be expended by stretching it our for so long.

That said, here's other things they could do:

1. Triple the length of the south and north green lights on Woodward and Telegraph and other N-S roads which will be overburdened by the extra traffic, during rush hours. Keep the traffic moving.

2. Do the same thing w/ traffic lights along the service drives.

3. Cut by 1/4 the green lights during rush hours on all the east-west road that intersect the alternate routes and service drives, during rush hours.

4. Raise the speed limits on all expressways coming into town. Patrol them to keep all the idiots who clog up the hammer lanes over in the right lanes where they belong anyway.

I'm sure there are many more things the City and State could do to alleviate the problem. Think they'll implement any solution? Yeah, right.

Nobody at MDOT gives a damn about the taxpayers or saving money in the long run by doing this new job properly. The road builders will make enough money on this job to live in luxury until they do it all over again in 10 years.

Great quality of life in SE MI, right?
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 251
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please support the petition for 24 hour 7 day a week SMART bus service so this project can get done with fewer cars on the Lodge. Please sign today and you could be saving the lives of many road road workers and also help SMART get more fare box money and federal, state and local tax supports.

http://www.savethefueltax.org
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Hybridy
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Username: Hybridy

Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

american roads are crappily built to keep the economy going. why does every commercial building & strip mall slapped up get ripped down in 15 years? gotta keep people working. i can only imagine that the dopes running the show think that spending a little here and there is a lot better than making a costly but lasting investment initially. we also wouldn't want to do what europe does: sustainable architecture, mass transit, proper urban planning, and other efficient projects that pay off. that would just be too pricey. scoff, at least i'll be guaranteed for a hour-long commute to my vinyl-sided pulte mcmansion in the burbs, convenient to all of my power centers and drive-thru fast food establishments...unless detroit gets some jobs & viable development downtown. now that would be convenient. who's with me?
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 343
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hybridy: Well said.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 752
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, the section of the Lodge from roughly Myers to I-75 was rebuilt from the ground up in 1987, and it's still almost perfectly smooth to this day, 19 years later. There are other examples like that around the state. They contradict the conventional wisdom that MDOT is deliberately building crappy roads. There HAVE been blunders, such as the stretch of US-23 south of Flint that wasn't built with the right sand, or not enough sand, in the concrete.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 753
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another point to re-emphasize: the Lodge from 8 Mile to Lahser has its original pavement, some 45 years old for cripe's sake! Nobody can have a legitimate complaint about that being totally ripped up and redone. It would have lasted longer if more joints had been originally installed-- a problem that has been rectified since around 1980 on concrete freeway construction in Michigan.
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Ron
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Username: Ron

Post Number: 313
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My understanding of the reason why Michigan does not have toll roads as most other states (and possibly why we have a higher weight limit as well) is because we are not a "through state," such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, and all other non-border states. (Granted, we are a "through state" to Canada) Any truth to this? Also, what would the impact on the roads be if we had twice as many trucks with half the loads they are currently carrying? Would it be the same result?

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