 
Adamtc1
Member
Username: Adamtc1
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 9:13 pm: |    |
Can anyone give any information regarding to what capacity buildings are being used downtown? I know that some buildings are getting much fuller but some still remain relatively empty like the Dime Building. |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 60
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 9:16 pm: | |
Penobscot 65%
Buhl 85%
Guardian 50%
1st National 65%
Cadillac Tower 78%
Ford 70%
150 West Jefferson 80%
211 W Fort 84%
Fort Washington Plaza 80%
According to leasing agents at each building, as of end of September 2006 |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4709
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 11:30 pm: | |
How'd you get that information? Considering the economy and the perpetually soft office market, those are some pretty impressive occupancy rates. Well, at least most of them. |
Matt_the_deuce
Member
Username: Matt_the_deuce
Post Number: 676
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 11:53 pm: | |
According to the development blurb in Model D this week, Dime is at 65% |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 62
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 12:13 am: | |
Like I said, it is from the leasing agents at the specific buildings. |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 63
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 12:16 am: | |
By the way...
The Guardian building was at 6%, yes 6%, just 3 years ago.
On the flip side, the Ford Building was 91% full on 9/11/01. (According to owner of building) |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4710
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 1:31 am: | |
Yeah, the new (well, relatively new) owners of the Guardian Building brought that one back from the dead. When they get the parking garage up, the numbers should shoot up, too. |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 64
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 1:42 am: | |
Well, dont count on that parking structure soon.
It looks like it still a few years off....
Owners of the Guardian also own the Fort Washington Plaza |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4712
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 2:08 am: | |
I wonder if Sterling will ever get their website back up, BTW? Why don't you think they'll act on the parking for the Guardian? |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 2:23 am: | |
I was told that after more consideration, it is not in the immediate plans to tear down the building and replace it with a garage like previously stated. It is currently still in their future plans, however I was told that it was certainly possible they might not go through with that specific plan at all. In the meantime, they are working to secure more parking nearby.
The Sterling Group also has plans to continue its upgrade of the building. Apparently, they inherited a real mess of a situation when they bought the place. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 3089
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 4:34 am: | |
Well if they don't build a parking structure on Woodward it really won't be a bad thing. Something better (besides a parking structure) could always be built there. Although that piece of land is narrow, it does have main street frontage. |
Planner_727
Member
Username: Planner_727
Post Number: 68
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 9:23 am: | |
I think a structure on Woodward to replace that tiny, set-back glass bump would be a real positive addition, IF it is done well. Street-level retail is obviously a MUST, but also the materials and design should mimic an offic building, somewhat similar to the one next to 1001/above the new CVS. I think it would actually act to bring better continuity of form up to Woodward between the Bank One and 1 Woodward Place. |
1953
Member
Username: 1953
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 9:26 am: | |
What we obviously need more of in Detroit is surface lots with beautiful landscaping and sheds for attendants. |
Crew
Member
Username: Crew
Post Number: 1070
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 9:39 am: | |
Aren't all building capacities 100% by definition? |
Cman710
Member
Username: Cman710
Post Number: 18
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 10:28 am: | |
Another question: How many completely vacant skyscrapers are left downtown? I know some years ago, the number was pretty high, but am not sure what the situation is now. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 917
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 10:42 am: | |
I guess he should have said occupancy rate.... I was thinking the same thing, but didn't wanna be nit-picky.
My other thought was does he mean, how many people could they hold. :-D
Side bar: Anyone know of any cheap leases downtown for a office/photo studio? if so hit me kevin at crushmediagroup dot com |
Corktownmark
Member
Username: Corktownmark
Post Number: 226
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 12:00 pm: | |
Those numbers are very impressive. How much of this do you suppose is the result of GM's move? Of Compuware's move? |
Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 287
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 4:15 pm: | |
I don't think those two have much to do with it.
I think the different buildings have changed ownership or management to people who are better at it. Some buildings have also gotten upgraded and renovated too. |
Milwaukee
Member
Username: Milwaukee
Post Number: 312
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 4:22 pm: | |
How full is David Stott building or Comerica tower?
(Message edited by milwaukee on November 17, 2006) |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 3093
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 4:36 pm: | |
Unfortunately there is a lack of retail all along lower Woodward (except for the block containing the Vinton/First National Bldg).
On the east side of Woodward the CAY Bldg. block and Comerica Tower block don't have any retail.
And on the west side the One Woodward block, the Guardian block, and the Chase (formerly NBD) block are all void of retail along Woodward.
Whatever they decide for the Woodward side of the Guardian block, retail should be a must! |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 4:41 pm: | |
Comerica didnt give exact numbers but said they are generally in the 80% range.
Dont know about the Stott, although it is very low. |
Milwaukee
Member
Username: Milwaukee
Post Number: 317
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 7:19 pm: | |
That's too bad about Stott. Are there any plans for it's renovation or conversion into something else? |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4715
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 7:22 pm: | |
Yeah, the Book and Stott are perpetually low. I'd hope the new owners of the Book can upgrade it enough to pull up its numbers. I don't even know if they have more wherewithal than Ms. Susan Lambrecht, though. |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 344
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 10:35 am: | |
The occupancy situation is not as "good" as it appears. Nobody ever tells people who conduct these surveys the truth. They always quote higher occupancy rates than they're actually experiencing. I used to do it when I owned office buildings. Prospective tenants like high occupancy buildings. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4720
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 4:09 pm: | |
Well, how much higher over the reality are they hiking these occupancy numbers would you guess? How much did you usually lie by? |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 346
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 9:50 pm: | |
At least 20%. Most of the time I refused to respond to the surveys. Currently there at least three companies surveying SE MI bldgs quarterly.
The surveyors, such as Black's Guide, publish the stats quarterly and supposedly they are purchased by national brokers and users considering relocating here (yeah, right) in order to get a preliminary feel for the market (The surveyors also compile rental rates etc.)
The higher the reported occupancy, the more interest one is likely to get from prospective renters. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 3105
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 9:54 pm: | |
LOL... 3WC... sorta like putting awnings on the Statler, don't you think!  |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4723
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 10:37 pm: | |
3rd, 20%, at least?! And, no one ever checks them on the claims? Even if no one ever does check them, I think it would be pretty obvious upon a simple visit to the building that the numbers are a lie. I'm having a hard time they can get away with 20%+ |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 12:26 pm: | |
Umm, no. For many of them, I was given the floor plan layout, with current tennants. I compared the rates given to me and calculated a couple of them to check (150 W Jefferson was one I remember), and the rates came out to be extremely close, if not equal to what I had been told. |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 347
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 1:19 pm: | |
LMichigan: Who's going to check, say, the Penobscot bldg for accuracy? Not possible. As far as I know, NO One ver checks. Why would they want to? Everyone knows the info is massages anyway.
Spiritof Detroit: Never heard of anyone doing that. Not too bright on the part of the building owner in my opinion.
Whoever gave you floor plans w/ tenant's names is truly nuts. I'd have fired the person on the spot if it were my employee. Downtown Detroit owners get their tenants from one source, basically. Other DT office buildings. Raiding goes on constantly. Scouts used to come in my buildings and write down the names of all the tenants in an attempt to raid them. My guards had standing orders to throw the culprits out of the lobby if they saw anyone w/ a pencil and paper.
Lawyers for lenders usually screw up the borrower. Lenders require a Collateral Assignment of Rents to secure repayment of the loan. Problem is, those are recorded w/ the reg/deeds, and the dumb parties permit them to be recorded with the Exhibit listing the name of the tenant, number of square feet, and lease termination date. Great fodder for other building owners on raiding parties. Probably doesn't happen any more. |