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Aschar76
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Username: Aschar76

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 8:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get ready to buy a piece of history.

Beginning Monday, the City of Detroit will seek bids from companies to handle the sale of seats and other memorabilia from Tiger Stadium.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006611250373
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 189
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Years down the road Detroit will regret demolishing this landmark; the short sightedness of the clowns in city council is rampant. This city is so inept to deal with its past, just because it is not being used does not mean it automatically should be demolished; look at historical landmarks around the world; how many are functioning buildings? Not many. This disgusts me. Detroit is not a world class city and if it keeps demolishing its landmarks it never will be.
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1159
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought the city was broke? How can they be hiring an asset disposition company?
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Leoqueen
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Username: Leoqueen

Post Number: 1426
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They must be using the income tax refund money THAT I HAVENT RECEIVED YET!!!!!
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1721
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the city actually have to find money? or does the company they hire to oversee the sale just take a percentage of memorabilia sales a la eBay?
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Navin_parker
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Username: Navin_parker

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is more about nothing. This is the quarterly update from the DEGC so it looks to the lost soles in the City like the Mayor and the DEGC
are doing something for the fine soles of Corktown.

This is now the third time since June a story with little fact other than a Quote from Peter Z. or the Mayor on the progress of the stadium has been writen.

The first one the DEGC had to decide who they were going to hire the second they got approval from there board at the DEGC to hire someone and now the third story has them putting out a RFP to hire a Company that would then hire someone to do the work at the stadium....sounds like real progress to me. The City is on shut down for the next 6 weeks due to the holidays and the council who would then have to give a final vote on all this is on recess till after the New Year.

Come on folks they are playing us for suckers its nothing more than another buy time we're working on it story no more no less.

Sadly its true that the City has no money for this crazy romantic notion about demolition for free or even to hire someone to tell them they do but unfortantly the DEGC does. By hook or crook they come up with there's. Its back door dealing anyway you look at it in Detroit.

I'd be worried in Corktown weather you care about Tiger Stadium or not until you see a ground breaking celebration for the new hockey arena. The Motor City Casino is a huge trump card in all this planning around talk of a new hockey home and its wasn't even in the cards when the new park was approved in 1996 beware of Mike Ilitch and friends!

Hoping all had a pleasant and safe holiday!!
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What would you use the stadium for. I love historical buildings, but they need to have some sort of use to be kept. The stadium is simply a shell with grass in it, its a hodge podge of bad looking materials. If there was something useful for it I would say go ahead but It seems like someplace were something functional could be.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 948
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

should not have built Comerica park. Illitchville is a bad idea, building a city around sports is abad idea. Read the book "Major League Losers" I forget the author but the book talks about cities who built around sports and failed
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3149
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That begs the question Navin_parker... does MotorCity Casino want to be right next door to a new Hockey arena? Say they build it right next door. That would mean that hockey patrons would try to use the free MotorCity parking garage (bad for the hockey side getting less revenue).

And would the casino be able to handle the before and after game crowd (even if only a fraction of the hockey game attendees go to the casino)? Granted all the casinos get a bump in attendance after downtown sporting games, but with being right nearby, it would compound the game traffic. How does one schedule 8 hour worker shifts for huge 1-3 hour spikes in after game traffic? (Granted, MotorCity will love the extra revenue.)
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 613
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please, the shortsightedness is from people who can't let go of the past. The reality is that this plan offers best of preservation and fulfilling the Corktown's retail, residental needs. If this happens it would create the year round attraction that Corktown needs.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 299
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and preserve the history of the stadium, Tkelly1986...the field is going to be a public park, so kids can play ball where Al Kalien and Ty Cobb did, and they will preserve some of the stadium while building new retail, condos around it marketed s a corktown cultural center, along with opening up all the adjacent surface lots for development...it is a plan developed and embraced by the local hood, not just the city council.

Whats ur idea?

who's inept here
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Border5150
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Username: Border5150

Post Number: 176
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No Major League Stadium (in ANY of the 4 major professional sports in this country) has ever been re-developed. Better, safer, cleaner cities with competent city governments have not been able to do it. Does anybody think the COD could pull that off? Really?

It ain't happening, despite whatever the city says. Kwame and the CC will find a way to screw it up - as they do everything else. Its almost pathological

To play Devil's advocate - If the COD is actually hiring someone to handle the auctioning off of TS artifacts, I think its a great move from their perspective. Such an auction will generate money, maybe not enough to tear down the stadium...but who knows? If they were to sell the blue chairs at $100 a pop, an auction might pay for the entire demo.
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Navin_parker
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Username: Navin_parker

Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By the way if this is to be called a true "Auction" by the City of Detroit the first item up for bid should be the "stadium" itself as it is should be the first entry. If there are no takers for this in the marketplace then they should auction the sum of its parts. Then you call it a fund raiser for a broke City and a poor neighborhood aspring for a better day but don't call it a auction.

Every dream has its reality and this stadium concept will as well!
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 306
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 2:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city regrets will come... this is not the right move to make...
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Catman_dude
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Username: Catman_dude

Post Number: 59
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't see anything useful that can come out of Tiger Stadium other than a historical place, a la Henry Ford Museum extension. Or maybe a Baseball Hall of Fame branch of an example of a old-time baseball park. Maybe a National Park designation or a combo of all three? It's gonna take lots of money to get the stadium back to prime condition. Once in a while a baseball game can be played there; a concert series; series of events of some sort to raise money toward it's own upkeep. Just brainstorming here.
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Michigandriveins
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Username: Michigandriveins

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know what the answer is, but I'd love to see Tiger Stadium saved somehow. This "hodge podge of bad looking materials" holds tons of great memories for a lot of people. Aren't there hundreds of vacant lots available to build whatever they're planning to build on the stadium site?! When Kwame the crook and his cohorts are gone, and the dirty deed is done, what will be left?
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing but memories, but sometimes that's what is needed. And as said before the current redevelopment plan preserves the actual field and parts of the stadium. I think that its a good compromise. But just in general if it's not going to be used or maintained, let progress take its course. If anything waiting to do something with any site is bad, look at what happened with many of the buildings in Brush Park.
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Magnasco
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Username: Magnasco

Post Number: 177
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably won't be bidding on any seats, but at least I have my ticket stub from the Kiss show. I think I took some pics from behind homeplate, which was the wrong end to be at as I recall.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Memories don't save buildings, esp. in Detroit. It's going away just like many others. Saving graces come from adaptive reuse. It's hard to find a precedent for a redeveloped sporting venue.
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Catman_dude
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Username: Catman_dude

Post Number: 60
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is Pontiac Stadium, aka Silverdome, still in operation and viable?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8101
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I can still post here:

Enough whining about Tiger Stadium. The place is old, has no adaptive reuse and needs to go. Sports stadiums are not re-used in any part of the country. In New York, Yankee stadium is slated to be demolished due to a new stadium. Anyone that says that TS has more history than Yankee stadium is full of it.

Enough with the sympathetic 'I want it saved' crap. There is no use for it, it is an impediment to growth in an otherwise strong neighborhood and will be no good for anyone except the few that drive by it every year to look at it.

Detroit has residents and those residents have needs. Saving Detroit for the whiny jerks that fled long ago is not an option and nothing that the city should consider.

If you want a voice in TS move to the affected neighborhood and make your voice heard. Otherwise shut the fuck up.
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Enduro
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Username: Enduro

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live in Corktown and we need some retail. A DECENT grocer for example. Right now, all I see is a sad hulk of a building from my bathroom window. I loved Tiger Stadium but be realistic. With the current plan at least we'd be allowed on the field, as of now they offer no tour, no nuffin.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 254
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't live in corktown, but constantly eye the neighborhood for my first purchased home. Though ALL of my childhood major-league sports memories take place in Tiger's Stadium, it is just a hulk... A reminder of a more prosperous time. Somehow corktown remains attractive despite two dinosaurs in their midst. (TS, and MCS) I think the city's proposal, if it ACTUALLY happens, is the most viable, REALISTIC, and practical option for the site. It retains SOME elements of the building, and can FINALLY make that land useful for the neighborhood...
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Chub
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Username: Chub

Post Number: 431
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Enduro, have you been to HoneyBee grocery store in Corktown? I shop there and I live way north in Boston-Edison. Very clean place, with friendly and helpful people working there.
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Enduro
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Username: Enduro

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chub, is that on Trumbull south of Michigan Ave? I thought that was just another Beer/Wine shop (I usually stop at the store that used to be Tiger Liquor or something similar for cold beverages). I'll have to give that a try.
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Chub
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Username: Chub

Post Number: 432
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HoneyBee Market is a great full size grocery store located at 2443 Bagley St. (at 18th Street). Phone: 313-237-0295
Hours: Mon-Fri. 8am-8pm Sun. 8am-6pm
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 7165
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upkeep for Tiger Stadium, starting the day it closed until about this May, was paid for through a ticket surcharge levied on Comerica Park tickets with the security and maintenance services provided by Olympia. The intent was never to have the building maintained in pristine condition, but to keep it from being vandalized and to keep the field reasonably intact. Detroit is the ONLY MLB city that has tried to do something with their stadium after it was vacated. Comiskey Park in Chicago is a parking deck.

1953 / Leoqueen:
The City will NOT pay out of pocket for the disposition services. The RFQ/P clearly states that the winning asset disposition firm's fees will be paid from the proceeds of the sales with net revenue flowing back to the City,

Navin Parker:
The site has been up for auction to highest QUALIFIED bidder since 1999. No bidder with a reasonable plan that is funded and would be of benefit to the City has EVER come forward. You may recall what happened to the Hudsons building and many many other like the National Theater that were "auctioned" off to highest bidder with no real development plan behind them. They sat vacant and derelict with no real way for the City to spur development. Simply selling to highest bidder without a real development plan in place is the worst kind of property management the City could do. Thank go they have learned from their mistakes of the past.

Andylinn and jt1:
Thanks for being voices of reason.
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Navin_parker
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Username: Navin_parker

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Several false statements that need to be corrected and for which I can provide total documentation.

1st) There was no money spent on the upkeep of Tiger Stadium from any ticket surcharge fund. Not from Tickets from Comerica Park and not from past games at Tiger Stadium.

2nd) The money given to the City was $2 million dollars in accordance with the memorandum of understanding between the City and the Tigers for the new stadium in October of 1999. The Detroit Tigers Paid that money to the City of Detroit in one lump sum on April 18th, 2000 after Comerica Park opened it was earmarked for upkeep or demolition not for Ilitch. It was agreed in the understanding that the Team would return the stadium to the City of Detroit in 30 days. That never happen they instead stayed in the stadium for another 7 years collecting $420,000 dollars a year plus money from other Ilitch/City sponsored events all total the tab came to a tune of nearly $7million bucks. The $2 million has be gone since August of 2001 and the Tax payers of Detroit have footed the bill since while all the interested parties in the future of the stadium have been told to go to hell. Why because MIKE ILITCH remains the gate keeper of a City owned asset while the people who have plans foot the bill. Nothing will happen to the stadium or the site until the 30 year lease with the Tigers (which was not broken when the team left so Ilitch could continue to milk the taxpayers)expires on July 13th, 2007.

3RD) The stadium has never been put on the open market in true auction form to be sold to a person at the highest bidder to build what they wish or to preserve and utilize the property. But if you want to give the City (Fred Rottach) Property Manager for the City $2 the'll give you the whole 9 acres if your willing to spend your money to tear down the stadium and build them (City) what they want. No body is going to be told what to do with there money. The cold hard truth is the City has not learned at all from there mistakes and the facts remain that they don't want us to know the real truth about Tiger Stadium luckily four me I already do.

Stadiums in Houston (Astrodome) and in Pontaiac (Silverdome) have seen themselves reused and neither have the appeal of Tiger Stadium.

Since neither the City of Detroit nor the people of Corktown seem educated enough to appreciate the value of this structure I would like the City to give consideration to a group of people who would like to move parts of the structure to Atlanta Georgia were it is appreciated. I'd be more impressed with this forum if the posters new the facts before they told each other to fk off.

Don't blame Tiger Stadium for the problems of times. If Corktown and the City of Detroit were a National Park the Park Rangers would have thrown us all out because we haven't left it the way we found it.

WINNER: MIKE ILITCH LOSERS US SOS:TIGER STADIUM
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 7169
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So from Navin's posts we can confirm that the City never footed the bill for upkeep of the site...until the $2 million given by Olympia to the City ran out in 2006...where did Olympia get the $2 mill? Oh yeah, they tacked it on to tickets sales at Comerica Park.

Contrary to the impression that NP gives, the Tigers organization had 30 days to vacate the leased premises of Tiger Stadium at the end of the season, which they did. Neither the Tigers nor Olympia owned Tiger Stadium at its closing. It has been a city owned asset for a couple of decades.

Olympia was retained as the firm to do maintenance and security for a variety of reasons.

1 - Operational familiarity with the building. Their staff knew the ins and outs of the building, where the problems lie, where the likely illegal entry points were, what the real watering needs of the field were etc...recall the operated a complex building for many years and had ample time to learn its quirks.

2 - Olympia is a high profile firm that was unlikely to illegally strip the building of its contents. Having the City hire the cheapest security firm would have been an invitation to strip the building ala the Hudsons building. Olympia also has a vested interest in prevent the illegal distribution of Tiger memorabilia to protect the brand integrity of the Tigers.

As far as auctioning off the site to the highest bidder, that is a truly flawed practice in urban environments like Detroit. The City has followed the most intelligent and prudent course of action.

For example, the DDA received a bid of $1.2 million for the 600 Woodward building. The plan was for the buyer to demo the building for parking until he was able to acquire the remainder of the buildings on the block, which would also then be demoed for a new pie in the sky development. There was slim guarantee that the developer could acquire the rest of the land. The result would have been a 20 space parking lot. Instead the City sold the building for $500,000 to a group of investors that are building condos in the $500,000 to $1 million range. Those units will provide property tax, income tax and other economic activity that will quickly erase the $600,000 differential in the bid prices. I don't think anyone can argue that the condo outcome is better for the city.

The same logic applies here. The City could have sold the stadium to highest bidders who then would have hoarded the memorabilia out of Tiger Stadium selling not to the general public but releasing pieces slowly to the wealthy collector market. Then demoed the site and done who knows what. Not a single plan presented to the City had sufficient dollars and a financing commitment to complete a proposed plan, not a single plan had the backing of the local Corktown community...not a single plan had long term benefit for the City. Perhaps it is the City and Corktown residents who are the educated folks here.

By the way, City of Pontiac placed the Silverdome back out for bid last August because the previous bids dissolved... so much for the claim that the Silverdome has been reused successfully.

It has been my experience that folks who claim that entire mass portions of the population are "uneducated" or "stupid" usually don't have all the facts or are so completely polemic that they've shut down their own critical thinking skills. The people of Corktown and many of the people involved in TS's fate are actually well educated. There's even a couple Ivy League educated lawyers in the mix.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 39
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Stadiums in Houston (Astrodome) and in Pontaiac (Silverdome) have seen themselves reused and neither have the appeal of Tiger Stadium.




From Wikipedia


quote:

The Astrodome was joined by a new neighbor in 2002, the retractable-roofed Reliant Stadium, which was built to house Houston's new NFL franchise, the Houston Texans.The Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo moved to the new venue in 2003, leaving the Astrodome without any major tenants. The last concert preformed at the Astrodome was George Strait & the Ace in the Hole band. George would also perform at Reliant Stadium next year. The stadium is currently called the "lonely landmark" by Houstonians because hardly any well-known events take place there. The historic facility now hosts occasional concerts and high school football games. Although some Houstonians want the Astrodome demolished by 2009 or 2010, to be replaced by a large parking lot for the other structures of Reliant Park, city council has rejected that plan for environmental reasons. They reasoned that demolition of the Dome might damage the dense development that today closely surrounds it. (Also, being the world's first domed stadium, historic preservationists may also object to the landmark--though not included on the National Register of Historic Places--being demolished.)


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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 765
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Itsjeff wrote, "Having the City hire the cheapest security firm would have been an invitation to strip the building ala the Hudsons building."

The city never hired any security guards for Hudson's. The only security guard there was provided by Dayton-Hudson, he did a good job, and he left when Dayton-Hudson sold the building to Southwestern of Canada in Dec. 1989. Then things promptly went to hell.

The city paid for a guard at the Book-Cadillac. He also did a good job (couldn't stop the water damage, though), but was removed in 1997. Then the building was looted of its fixtures.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 168
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Years down the road Detroit will regret demolishing this landmark

No it won't. Years from now it will still be there. :-)
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 178
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Side post: Who here plans on buying seats?

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