Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Museum of Automobile History in Downtown Detroit? « Previous Next »
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Catman_dude
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Post Number: 61
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For visitors and tourists, it would seem obvious that there should be a museum or something dedicated to telling the history of the automobile industry in Detroit somewhere in downtown area. With the ongoing revival of downtown, this would help provide another non-sport attraction there.

Having not lived in the Detroit area for over twenty years, I do not know if there is exactly such a thing already. If not, then perhaps it can be a Henry Ford Museum extension or something.
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Bongman
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Post Number: 1345
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Henry Ford has an extensive car collection, but I always thought the Highland Park Model T plant on Woodward would make a great location for an all-around transit museum related to the automobile. Examples of the evolution of production techniques, traffic control, road-work, and the building itself...In short, everything related to the automobile industry could be displayed there.

Of course after Auto-World in Flint...Heh.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 59
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that this has been tried in other places; most of them unsuccessful. However, downtown might make a decent location for another try. The side issue is that out-of-towners want ONE place to which they can go to see the history of Detroit's auto industry. The real situation is that there are hundreds of places all over the metro area that make up the auto industry from Henry Ford's Piquette plant to Diamler Chrysler's HQ in Auburn Hills. Setting all of this into one location may be inappropriate.
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1163
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Charlottepaul.

We need a downtown museum that highlights the best of what's automotive from our region. It can serve as a centerpiece for satelite tours, but it should be centrally located in the heart of the city, so visitors can find it highly accessible.
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56packman
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Post Number: 735
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick Kughn tried to do just this in the Michigan Central station in the early 80's, when the building was still pretty much open and intact.
CAY had no interest in it at all, he had some pretty big fish to fry at that time.
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Pam
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Post Number: 699
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Historical Museum has an exhibit:

http://www.detroithistorical.o rg/exhibits/index.asp?MID=1&EI D=76&Page=first
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Kathleen
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Post Number: 1736
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be great to have some sort of automotive history museum downtown for visitors to spend an hour or so during their visit to Detroit.

Currently we have GM World in the Renaissance Center. Exhibits change quarterly, but it's pretty much only cars on display.

And the DPL's National Automotive History Collection (http://www.detroit.lib.mi.us/n ahc/) is located downtown in the Skillman Branch on Farmer Street, but they are mostly for research with the occasional very thought-provoking exhibits.

What we need is something small but permanent, with some changing exhibits, perhaps in conjunction with the folks at the NACH along with reps from the other automotive museums in the area: The Henry Ford (www.hfmgv.org/), the GM Heritage Collection (which currently has no public access), the Chrysler Museum (http://www.chryslerheritage.co m/), and the National Automotive Hall of Fame (http://www.automotivehalloffam e.org/visit.php). Other museums like the Sloan and the Buick Research Center in Flint, the Hudson in Ypsilanti, and the Wills St. Clair in St. Clair could contribute as well.
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56packman
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Post Number: 737
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What large, open space could be converted/used Downtown? one building I have always thought of for such a thing is the former Cadillac Dealership on E.Jeff--great showroom area and large multi-story "shop" on back. From experience, such a place would be THE party location for auto show week, and you could auction off the rental for the night of the black tie opener.
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Charlottepaul
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Post Number: 62
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably would work better within walking distance of downtown. If an all new building were viable, I would shoot for the property on the NW corner of 75 and Woodward that was recently leveled.
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Rustic
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MCS was the place to do it right (you could have rotating exhibits given the relatively limited space) and the high ceilings vs an empty factory could give overhead catwalk views of the exhibits.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 85
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why does this sound so much like Autoworld in Flint? it was originally envisioned as an automotive museum, then to make it an even more exciting attraction, they threw in some rides and called it a theme park. unfortunately, it wasn't really good at being either. someone overestimated the drawing power of a giant engine in the middle of a dying auto town, and wasted millions of dollars, destroyed the ima auditorium, and made it nearly impossible for any other development scheme to get off the ground - no one wanted another autoworld.

granted, it would be more likely to succeed in detroit than flint. but i'd be wary of a stand-alone museum focusing only on the automobile. it would do better as an extension of an existing museum.
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Gumby
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Post Number: 1478
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to agree with scottr. This idea really reaks of Autoworld.
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56packman
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Post Number: 738
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have a lot of great auto museums in the metro area, a lot for a town this size (but understandable given our "all in one basket" industry) AND we have the Motor Cities Auto Heritage assoc. Sounds like we need to channel visitors to that organization and get special busses running to their locations from the major hotels
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Jams
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Post Number: 4280
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56packman
You mentioned the old Cadillac dealership.

I never seem to remember which building was the Cadillac dealership and which was the Packard.

Remind me, please.
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Detroitnerd
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Post Number: 755
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why don't we just offer tours of General Motors and Ford. There they can see the historic decisionmakers who charted Detroit's course. They're still there!

SEE the business thinking of the 1950s.

EXPERIENCE the arrogant sexism of an old-fashioned workplace.

FEEL amazed by the companies that don't acknowledge a changing world, because they've never had to do it before.

Remember, Detroit's Golden Age never left. That's where our auto executives choose to remain!
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Gistok
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Post Number: 3155
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On a more serious note... I always thought that the former Kresge HQ on Cass Park across from the Masonic Temple looks like a monumental museum building... it would make for a great Automotive Museum.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You wouldn't happen to have a picture of that building?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 427
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Auto Museum Downtown??? Sounds like Autoworld!

Can there be lame rides too, and games where you win mini-posters of Michael Jackson for only $5?
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56packman
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Post Number: 739
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JAMS--south side of E.Jeff, past Mt. Elliot, was a gym after the Chromillac dealer gave it up.
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Kathleen
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Post Number: 1740
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any automotive museum downtown needs to be within walking distance of Campus Martius so that visitors can get to it while staying at any of the downtown hotels or attending other events. It should not be an exhaustive museum, but one where one might visit for an hour and then want to go back occasionally to see the latest exhibit (which should change at least quarterly, if not more frequently). Admission would be affordable. For more intensive automotive history, one would travel to the other aforenamed museums.
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Kathleen
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Post Number: 1741
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Re: Cadillac vs Packard dealerships on E. Jefferson, there's a PowerHouse Gym on the sw corner at McDougall/Walker, and then there is the Vigliotti Real Estate on the south side of the street at Chene. Both were former car dealerships. Which one is which? I was told that the one housing the PowerHouse Gym was designed by A. Kahn, so Packard?
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Bob_cosgrove
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Post Number: 438
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The downtown Packard deadlership was a classic Greek Revival single floor building on Jefferson, which was removed with the construction of eotjer with the creation of the I-475 intersection or with the building of the Renaissance Center. I don't recall which.

Vigliotti Real Estate is in the former Jefferson Avenue Terminal Warehouse. As far as I know there never was a car dealership there, but I could be wrong. Someone who has a City of Detroit Directory from the 1920's can tell us.

Bob Cosgrove
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Catman_dude
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One variation on the theme of automobiles would be a "Proto-type/Concept Cars" of the automakers. You know, those mock-ups of cars of the future that the automakers would consider making. I've always wondered what happened to these concept cars after they get their run of the oouuu's and aaahhhh's at car shows.
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 1087
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Proto-type/Concept Cars" deserves a thread of its own, IMHO. It could become a HOF thread. An interesting side theme might be a retrospective of the least-likely-to-succeed concept cars.

(Message edited by Jimaz on November 28, 2006)
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Burnsie
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Post Number: 763
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catman_dude-- I don't know about Chrysler and Ford, but GM keeps many if not most of its concept cars at a storage facility/gallery in Sterling Heights or thereabouts, which is closed except to certain employees and researchers.
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56packman
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Post Number: 741
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Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THREADJACK ALERT!!

Here is the Chrysler Norseman concept car, 1956. It was built by Ghia in Italy, on a New Yorker chassis. It was shipped to the US on the Andrea Dorea and never made it.........straight to Davy Jones locker, where its been for half of a century.

norseman 1


norseman 2
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 434
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I say we all take a trip to Auburn IN to investigate this further!

http://www.acdmuseum.org/index .html
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 440
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The GM collection is or was in Warren, Michgan not in but not too far from the Tech Center.
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1742
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The GM Heritage Center is located at 6400 Center Dr. in Sterling Heights. Access is currently limited to GM employees, scholars, analysts and the media. Looking forward to it someday being open as a museum accessible to the general public. Maybe by the time GM celebrates its centennial in 2008?
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The_rock
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Post Number: 1438
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 7:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My late uncle at one time was the manager of the Packard dealer next to Renaissance, and I recall when construction started, the papers ran a photo of Hank the Deuce wearing a hard hat while in the seat of a big mobile crane and crashing a wreckers' ball into the facade of the former dealership.

The Power Gym use to be a Cadillac dealership. Seymour Cadillac was owned by a former Grosse Pointer, Dick Seymour. He sold out to yet another businessman, the place went on for a while under the new name (still a Cadillac dealer) and eventually closed.
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Kathleen
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Post Number: 1743
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Bob and The Rock, for the clarification on the past lives of the Power House Gym and Vigliotti Realty Co. buildings.
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Lowell
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I read the title to this thread, the first thing that flashed across my mind was that scene from "Roger and Me" where Autoworld in Flint is being detonated.

While I am all for attractions downtown, somehow this one doesn't ring for me. To start with it could never compare with the amazing Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn so it would be, ahem, reinventing the wheel and would face competing funding issues. Furthermore the Detroit Historical Museum also has a big automotive element just up Woodward.

Finally I would prefer to see something looking in a different direction, as opposed to backward, and something non-automotive like an architectural museum located in some of those vacant store fronts in the necklace district.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As someone born and raised in the city of Flint (4 years old when AutoWorld opened), I echo the concerns about any auto museum being done in a half-assed way and ending up like AutoWorld. Like Lowell said, it would compete for scarce dollars with the Henry Ford. Not that the Henry Ford is perfect or couldn't use a little deflation of its ego.

Lowell- Roger & Me was released about 7 years before AutoWorld was demolished. The detonation in the movie is of the water tower at old Fisher 1, probably from 1988.
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Gravitymachine
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

kathleen, next time there is a family and friends open house at the heritage center, I'll keep you in mind. and yes camera's are allowed :-)
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Kathleen
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Post Number: 1744
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Gravitymachine, that would be great! Here's my email address for future reference: dkosh <at> msn.com
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Catman_dude
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I had in mind when I started this thread was something in the downtown proper that is automobile-history related that people walking about the sports stadiums, casinos, greektown, Ren Cen, Campus Martius, etc. would go to visit. Just how many downtown tourists walking about there do actually make a trip to the Henry Ford Museum? How many actually know about it? I wouldn't think that it would necessarily compete with the HFM but actually would point to other automobile-related attractions in the Detroit area. But if GM in the Ren Cen and Detroit Historical Museum both have something, then I guess it's sufficient. I hope they tell their stories in an engaging way.

Lowell, I like the idea of an architectural museum. Detroit had/has many architectural beauties that need their stories told and shown.
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Downtown_dave
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Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Automotive Hall of Fame, http://www.automotivehalloffam e.org/, located next door to the Henry Ford Museum, moved there from an obscure facility in Midland with the hope of increasing attendance and gaining prominence. I'm not sure how much success they have had (I think they are still struggling with attendance even though it's an interesting place) - and the point of trying to locate some sort of a comprehensive auto center downtown may not actually be that functional or appealing. If you're into cars, you naturally come here to Detroit and you can see a lot. For the casual tourist downtown, I don't think it's possible to tell the automobile story in one place at an admission price that could sustain the effort.

Now, Motown is a whole 'nother thing. I really believe that could be a world class "hook" to get people to come into the city from parts near and far. Will we ever see that "Motown Experience" on Woodward - with the connector shuttle bus (akin to The Henry Ford Rouge tour) going to the Motown Hitsville Museum on West Grand Blvd.?
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Michmeister
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought the auto industry in Detroit was already history? ; )

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