  E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 989 Registered: 11-2004 |
The girlfriend and I are looking at buying a place in the next few months. One of the avenues we're considering is purchasing an older home in the city and restoring it. We've both done work to keep up older homes in the past, such as electrical and plumping upgrades, so we have somewhat of an idea of what we would be getting into. However, we would like to have a better idea so we can avoid some pitfalls and know what to look for. So we're asking for stories, tips or warnings on buying and rehabing old homes, specifically in the city. We want to hear it all, the good the bad and the ugly. Thanks. | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 150 Registered: 08-2006 |
Forumer Chub may have some good insight into this; or maybe you could just buy his! See https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/65504/87154.html?1163465 672 | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2006 |
We're in the process of rehabbing a duplex in Detroit's Woodbridge neighborhood, check out our blog: http://www.detroitwoodbridgedu plex.blogspot.com/ | ||
Chub Member Username: Chub Post Number: 435 Registered: 11-2003 |
E_hemingway, feel free to email or call me with any questions. I have been restoring my 1915 colonial home in Detroit for the last 4 years and I'm also a real estate agent. eric@oconnordetroit.com or (313)963-9891 Ext.12 | ||
Chub Member Username: Chub Post Number: 436 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mackcreative, looks like you've got a cool project on your hands. Just one question, why in gods name would you ever let a drunk scrapper into your home. Come on, don't feed the bears. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 747 Registered: 12-2005 |
post an armed guard outside the house 24/7 after the new copper plumbing goes in, until you are moved in. When the COD electrical inspector asks to see the inside of the service panel (circuit breaker panel) he might say "I don't see enough GREEN wires in there". Pay attention: the operative word here is GREEN. You should know what to do from there. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 2 Registered: 08-2006 |
Better drunk scrapper that I let in than drunk scrapper that broke in. | ||
Chub Member Username: Chub Post Number: 438 Registered: 11-2003 |
If you know he does illegal scrapping and you know his name, why don't you turn him to the cops? Or better yet, just beat him with a stick. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2006 |
I don't think he does illegal scrapping--or so he told me, he has always asked before taking anything and been very polite; minus the one slip-up. I just meant I'd rather give away junk that I don't want than have it stolen from me during the night. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2803 Registered: 10-2003 |
You've both done some of the stuff before. Good start. I know one couple that broke up after diving into a rehab project. Is your relationship strong? It's messy, and often opening one wall results in a Pandora's box situation...Why do we do it? Well, maybe because when you are *more or less* finished, and one day you will be, there's nothing more gratifying than having shaped your own living space. It's humbling to take apart a house of a certain age and see that, for example, your stairway was put together by some guy using absolutely no power tools. Anyway, my magic formula is to make sure that you have a couple "normal" rooms that you can retreat to. And take care of the basics- That's plumbing and ESPECIALLY wiring- first. Finally, try to finish one project at a time, rather than having ten things going at once. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 703 Registered: 11-2005 |
Mackcreative: Nice blog. Your little helper is cute. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7250 Registered: 12-2003 |
You owe it to yourselves to buy a DVD copy of The Money Pit. Watch it a few times, through all of your bio-cycles, even if you don't want to. Especially when you don't want to. Don't let the kitchen wait too long...it is the heart of any home. And cover any and all cold air returns from dust created from the first instant you break a wall, or patch/sand a hole or crack...don't get all that dust into an old furnace, what doesn't clog the filter will eat up the bearings...or end up in your lungs. Get a thermo picture of the outside of the house your first winter there, so you can identify the best rooms to heat, the best ones to shut down. You'll find you will want to replace a window or two...and the nice original wood front door, unfortunately. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 185 Registered: 05-2006 |
I'm in the middle of a bathroom rehab. Beware of cast iron bath tubs. They look nice, but it was like trying to move a car into the bathroom. Additional people isn't the answer since they won't fit in the confined space. Look at lighter alternatives or have the existing one refinished. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 970 Registered: 10-2003 |
mackcreative; what're you going to do with the house when you're finished? retain the duplex format or go single family? sell it or move into it? welcome to the forum, btw. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9009 Registered: 10-2003 |
Doing a botched wiring job currently. 240v to 3 flourescent fixtures which were tied into the outside porch light. I am unable to find the junction point so I have to cut a channel into the ceiling and run new wiring to a junction box in the basement and then to the panel. Great fun! | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1226 Registered: 11-2004 |
Many older homes were done with hardwood floors (to strengthen old diagional subflooring) and solid wood moldings. I do alot of older homes that the new (or old) homeowners pull up carpet and find that the entire house has solid hardwood flooring. Only in select neighborhoods (mostly in the near eastside/warren as well as new homes did houses without hardwood flooring exist. Full solid 2"1/4 X 3/4" red oak flooring was the norm in most houses pre 1970. In alot of historical homes, the planks used for the flooring were milled from scrap from wooden ships being destroyed as they were decommissioned in the 1890s-1920s My company added dustless sanding as a service to keep dust from getting literally everywhere... alot of companies dont use em tho, which results in you spending the next 3 months cleaning sawdust off every surface of your house. 1/8" X 1200square feet (average floor) = 12.5 Cubic feet of sawdust, poly-urethane dust, dirt, and alot of other crap u dont want to know about, being thrown pretty much any space that air can touch, while your flooring is being sanded. This is especially important in older homes that cant be easily cleaned from the vents out. Make sure to take note of contractors that are are clean... the lowest bidder is probably a hack.. and chances are that the highest bidder probably doesnt even have a clue about the business that he is in. Good contractors should be fairly similar in price since they are in CONSTANT competition. Gimme a call or shoot me an e-mail if you want info on some contractors that I work with and do a very good and professional job for a resonable price. Personally im a 3rd generation woodworker, and have spent my life since 13 working in residential construction. Now is a good time to renovate as ALOT of contractors have been bruised from the shitstorm real estate market that has brought new home construction (our former cash cow) to a screeching halt, and most construction companies are fighting pretty fierce for your business, since most people are digging in for the nuclear winter of our economy and renovating. shoot me an email if you need any help. surewoodflooring@yahoo.com (Message edited by alexei289 on November 29, 2006) | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 990 Registered: 11-2004 |
Chub: I will probably contact you after the Christmas holiday. That's when we plan to really start to seriously look at options. Mackcreative: That's a great blog. You now have at least two more loyal readers. Please keep updating it regularly and put as much detail in it as possible not only for interested parties like us but for your family. Keeping a journal like that can become a prized possession later on in life. Also, Woodbridge is one of our favorite neighborhoods and will be one of our first stops. BTW, welcome to the forum. Barnesfoto: Our relationship is pretty strong. We have been together for five years and living together for the last three. We're planning on getting married in the near future. One question though, why such an emphasis on upgrading the wiring first? Is it just because of potential fire hazards? Gannon: I will definitely check that movie out. But why would we end up replacing the front door? Will it let that much heat out? 56packman: How much extra green wiring does an inspector usually require? Washman: Thanks for the heads up. Have you thought of putting some sort of rollers underneath the tub to move it? Thanks to everyone who has posted and please keep them coming. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 991 Registered: 11-2004 |
Goat: That sucks. Hope you figure out that problem sooner rather than later. Alexei289: Great information. I had no clue about where those floorboards came from. We'll get in touch with you if we decide to go this route. Best of luck this winter. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2806 Registered: 10-2003 |
hemmingway: Yes. Nothing worse than busting your a on making an old house livable, then having an electrical fire. And as goat noted, finsihing a half ass job that someone else started is no fun. Obviously be careful of storing oily rags too. Old bathtubs are a blast to move, you just need lots of blankets to pad the halls and doorway, lots of friends for the muscle and lots of pizza and beer for the friends (after the bathtubs are moved of course). I moved a six foot long clawfoot bathtub into my upstairs bathroom a few months back. Was it a huge effort? Yes, but one can take a bath with a friend in a six foot bathtub! Alexi's advise is pretty good, I always go with the second lowest bid, rather than the lowest. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1227 Registered: 11-2004 |
BTW.... just because there werent power tools doesnt mean that doing wood work took 2 lifetimes of blood sweat and tears. ;) A decent carpenter/woodworker can perform any operation close to as fast as with power tools with a sharp handsaw and miterbox. usually just have a dude shouting measurements and throwing you pieces of wood to cut all day, throw em back when your done... and the other dude nails em into place. like anything else, theres a correct way to swing a hammer so that it takes only one stroke to set a nail, and theres a correct way to cut a piece of wood in less than 2-4 strokes. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7262 Registered: 12-2003 |
Most old doors have sections that are of much thinner wood...for a cool three-d effect. That wood, if the same as the rest of the door, is usually less than half as thick...and can be then twice as energy inefficient. You'll be lucky if they are completely solid, and you can get a great seal all around...and if there are windows they are sealed well, or you can add a quick air barrier layer. I guess you can put a plastic barrier over the thin wood parts, too...that is what I have to do for the damn loft doors. Sometimes staying within historic parameters is stupid, they even used single pane glass in the windows. It is all about relative R values, resistance to heat escape...and elimination of any draft. Kill them dead and you'll always feel warmer. If you get a heat signature analysis, I cannot remember what they call those 'aura' heat photos, you will clearly see where the heat is pouring out of the low R value routes in the house. You might be able to shut down a few rooms that you haven't worked on yet, but don't have water pipes running through their walls (obviously, I hope)...and really cut down your heat bills. Make it an air barrier instead, a lossy one until NEXT winter! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7263 Registered: 12-2003 |
What's the green wire worth nowadays? $50 a foot?! | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 776 Registered: 06-2006 |
Been remodeling/refurbing my 1920 farmhouse for a few years now. It never ends but the results are fabulous! Know what you want to do before you buy. Read up on how to do thins and make sure you scrape paint and sand floors before you move in! Lead based paint (under tons of other layers) is sure to be found. Good luck in your endeavor!! | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 1724 Registered: 02-2006 |
At least they don't have the 'other' obstacles you've faced, DT! | ||
Buddyinrichmond Member Username: Buddyinrichmond Post Number: 81 Registered: 02-2004 |
This recent article form ModelD details nicely that story of a local house rehab. Corktown seems like the spot for you. http://www.modeldmedia.com/fea tures/fields63.aspx | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 750 Registered: 12-2005 |
E_hemingway--the amount of green wires needed is directionally proportional to the size of the job, the perceived depth of the pockets of the principals owning the property, and the impending date the C of O is needed. | ||
Dillpicklesoup Member Username: Dillpicklesoup Post Number: 243 Registered: 05-2006 |
remodeling an old house- hope you have a barrel of money- | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2006 |
If it's her idea, go for it. If it's yours, don't. I speak from experience. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1228 Registered: 11-2004 |
whats wrong with remodeling an older house? In all honesty... theres alot of things the average person can learn in short order to do themselves to save a boatload of money. 1- DRYWALL... unbelievably simple to fix or replace, just time consuming. Cut... Screw... Tape..... mud.... sand... mud again...sand mud again (to do it perfect), Prime, Prime, Prime, Paint, Paint. Other than hanging it (as long as you have a beer thirsty friend, and can read a tape measure you can handle this) , you can do the rest of it spending no more than hour a day for a week straight... and you have new walls with new paint... and will probably be the most dramatic feature to an older house. You can live without trim for a month or so... until you have the rest of the house to your specs, and ONLY then replace it. Trim is a finish stage trade. 2. Obviously paint... If you cant paint a wall... you probably cant read or write as well. 3. Tile Removing old tile is a breeze... take a tile scraper and drink alot of coffee. If there is no current tile, screw concrete board to the subfloor (cut on a wet saw). and use that as underlayment. Rub out your mortar with 1/4" grooves, Place tile square to the Transition seems, and space between each corner. Rub on sealer, wait a day, grout.... wipe... done. A good tile specialty shop will proint you in the right direction for pretty much everything else. 4 BASIC plumbing. Its not very hard to install a shitter... but if your moving lines around... you want someone elses ass on the line with a warrenty... as it takes years of experience to sweat a pipe flawlessly everytime.... you can do it, but chances are, you will have atleast one leak... Plumbers however do this everyday... so it is more to them like tying their shoes. 5 BASIC electrical. The best thing you can do off the bat is update your electrical system. What do you need? They sell cases of these... 20-40 Double sockets (10$) 20switches (15$), and a voltmeter, 5 bucks. If you know what your doing from here on out (many people do but dont think about it much), you can really improve the value of your house for 40$. If you are the type of person that looks behind your TV and freakes out that there are 3 wires and have no clue what each one does.... please hire this out as well. That alone can save several thousand dollars if you feel at all comfortable with each... yet will impact the value of your historic home tremendously. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 777 Registered: 06-2006 |
Hysteria wrote: "At least they don't have the 'other' obstacles you've faced, DT!" Very true, be sure to check for ghosts...they can cost quite a bit of money in lost tools! | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 755 Registered: 12-2005 |
Your new best friends:    | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 756 Registered: 12-2005 |
Then, after all the heavy work is done and it's time to give it a little flair............  | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 992 Registered: 11-2004 |
Barnesfoto: Thanks for the heads up. Checking/replacing electrical is definitely a priority. Also, I don't think we would do the claw foot tub. We have dreams of a big, spacious master bathroom with new tubs that come with water jets. Gannon: Great heads up. How does one get a heat-signature analysis? Is it something you can do yourself or do you have to hire someone with the right equipment, and if so where do you find them? Detroitteacher: Coincidentally, my grandfather's ghost has been stealing mine and my dad's tools ad nauseam for years. It's as easy as putting a hammer down on a bench, turning away and its gone. We'll search everywhere for it for about 15 minutes and then it will magically reappear in the space we have searched over and over again. Buddyinrichmond: I have seen that story before. Thanks for the heads up though. 56packman: Can you give a rough cost estimate on green wires? Are we talking $50 or $5,000 for a normal house done by a regular working Joe? Anyone else have the experience of being charged for extra green wires or the like? Also, I'm already fans of those folks, but I tend to lean toward Bob Vila while my dad is definitely more of the Tim Taylor type. Fortresswarren: This is slightly more my idea than her's, but its not like I have to convince her to do it. I have seen what a large home project can do to a relationship, my parents built their own home in the most drawn out way possible, and I'm confident we can make it through a home renovation. But we want one that needs a little work as opposed to a lot of work. Alexei289: Done drywall work. Like most things, it's much easier when doing it with someone in my experience. Ditto for electrical and paint. Plumbing is more of my weak point. Dad always says plumbing is easy. All you really have to know is that sh!t rolls down hill. I question the simplicity of that philosophy and would probably hire out any major work for that. If we go forward with this, tiling will be my next craft to master. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7270 Registered: 12-2003 |
All you have to know about plumbing is that shit SHOULD run downhill...but if someone already laid out the run of the pipes correctly you don't have to worry about the angle. It's when you notice that nothing in the house is quite level any longer...and the original angle of the pipes has shifted...ugh. Hill?! As for the heat signature, it was big a good number of years ago, and many of the better heating and cooling places could do it (I thought). Check with DTE and a few big contractors and see what they say. It was a special film for a regular camera, I thought...but they were developing a heat signature pain analysis for the body that I didn't see again after a few years, so perhaps this one went away too. Might not be a way to make it digital yet...although I'd bet if you found one of those heat-recognizing night-vision camcorders from Sony that would 'see' through clothes during the day with the same sensor...it could be used to find heat leaking from the house. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 758 Registered: 12-2005 |
E_Hemmigway-a Fitty oughta do it. OR you might get a good guy who doesn't need to see any more green wires than is normally necessary (one completely daisy-chained ground going to all loads on all circuits). That has happened. (Message edited by 56packman on November 30, 2006) | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 759 Registered: 12-2005 |
Gannon--you forgot two other rules: Hot goes on the Left Cold goes on the right AND Shit goes downhill. but it goes down hill at a prescribed angle--like about 1/8 in./ft. (don't quote me on that--look it up in your Time/Life home repair books) If you make the angle too steep, the liquids run a little too fast and don't carry away the solids. Eeeeuuuuuw! If any one has ever questioned what a pro plumber makes, just watch them deal with a really messed up soil pipe situation. Everything you flush or dump down the drain becomes their business. Their hands-on business. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2451 Registered: 10-2003 |
They use IR videocameras now. You can get a tape of your house that you can review at your leisure. The cameras are sensitive enough that you can detect leaking water pipes in the walls. As you start looking at potential homes (projects) you will be able to get a better feel for the trade-off between the amount of work required and the lower price of the house. You'll want to think long and hard about just how big a project you want to take on. Look ahead several years and consider your time availability versus career demands and if children are going to be in the picture. When buying classic cars it's common to see one for sale that advertises "$30K or best offer, over $50K invested". That $50K doesn't include the owner's own labor either. SOME homes are like that too. At the top of the renovation scale, the money invested to return a home to it's full former glory may exceed the home's current market value. If you want a fine home in excellent condition it may be cheaper to buy it already done. On the other hand, if the goal is more modest you can save some money by doing it yourself. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 239 Registered: 10-2006 |
E_H, do what I told my youngest brother 25 years ago, find the most cosmetically challenged house in the best neighborhood you can afford. Don't buy one that needs electrical, plumbing, insulation, foundation work. You spend cubic dollars on all that, and the buyers don't see it. Spend it on floors, kitchens, bathrooms, paint, landscape, siding, roofs, that kind of thing. Things the buyers see. He's bought two houses owned by a widow and an old couple, neither house had a thing done for 20 or so years before he got there. He tripled his money in 7 years on the first one, he's up about 250% on the second one. BUT, with the coming industry shakeout in Metro Detroit, I think I would rent for a while longer. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 993 Registered: 11-2004 |
I will definitely do the thermal imagining. I think I have seen that technology on some HDTV show. We're pretty environmentally conscious, so insulation, if it already isn't installed, will be a top priority. If there is an older furnace we would probably want to replace it with new energy-efficient one. Our last house was a classic 1950s ranch with little to no insulation and large, thin windows that let heat gush out. We're still smarting from those $400-a-month heating bills. We'd prefer a house in need of cosmetic work as opposed to replacing its guts. But we're not afraid of electrical, drywall, tile work, putting in a new roof, building a deck or replacing a porch. Major plumbing or foundation work scares us. I work from home, am my own boss and we're not planning on having kids so finding time to do the work won't be too difficult. If we do this we don't want to be one of those couples that do all of these great improvements just before we put it one the market. We want to enjoy our hard work and get it done asap. Our goal would be to get most of the major work done in the first year. Sounds overly optimistic I know, but we think we can do it. We don't want to quickly flip our house either. As the girlfriend said, it would be hard to give up something you put so much hard work into. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7289 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks Track! That would be a derivative of the chip that Sony used in that camcorder, then. It did IR, too. Come to think of it, there are low res IR chips in some cheap security cameras...might get all the info you need from one of those for less expense than hiring a firm to survey...and end up with a decent camera to mount and freak out the neighborhood criminal wannabees. Might be able to cover the light sensor that triggers the chip from visible to IR behavior...I'm sure that's how they were doing it with that Sony camcorder. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 628 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mackcreative, good luck with your rehab. That's a handsome duplex with loads of potential. I'm not a city inspector or anything, but your porch demolition got me wondering, have you gotten approval for your plans from the Historic District Commission? The HDC provides an important oversight function to historic districts like Woodbridge. Failure to get a certificate of appropriateness before making exterior alterations can cause major headaches for a homeowner. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2813 Registered: 10-2003 |
ahh, here's another thought... many Detroit homes have nice Maple floors in the kitchens...Usually covered by several layers of linoleum and ugly vinyl tile. One of the funnest projects is the removal of old tile adhesive! Amazingly, the glue for linoleum, which is thick and brown and nasty looking, and has a distinct herbal smell, dissolves with hot water! I learned this after trying dry scraping, heat gunning and chemical remover. To outwit tool fairies, buy multiple tape measures, hammers and screwdrivers! | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 995 Registered: 11-2004 |
Swingline brings up a good point. How much of a hinderance, or help, can a Historic District designation be? Also, good heads up Barnesfoto. That sounds like it would save a lot of time and headache, but wouldn't the hot water hurt the original maple flooring? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7305 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey Barnes, you been down the measuring tape aisle lately at Home Depot?! It is ridiculous...not unlike the grocery-store diaper aisles of our recent past...WAY too many SKUs, too many choices...for such a simple task. They're motorized now, look next year for the heated model specifically for those fall and winter outdoor measuring projects. Heh. Corporate capitalism run amok, condensed version. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7306 Registered: 12-2003 |
Maple is a hardwood...just don't soak the water for a second longer than a few hundred years. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks to all the well-wishers. We will rent out the lower unit and live in the top two floors upon completion. We have obtained the necessary permits, we did not need approval from the Historic District Commission since Woodbridge is a state historic district, not a city historic district. That's not to say they haven't been of help. They're a great resource, especially in locating specialists in such fields as restoring wood windows, they have lots of brochures detailing things like historic color choices. The old upper porch was totally rotted and was dumping water onto the lower porch during rainstorms--resulting in thoroughly rotted floor boards and treads (even though they were less than 10 years old.) The new upper porch will have the same denting and molding as the roofline and will match the house much better. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6039 Registered: 10-2003 |
To add to what Alexi had to say:
Soldering is the single hardest thing I've ever attempted. Plumbing is actually very simple, and your best friend for small repairs or new runs would be this. It's not cheap but it is worth every penny in time saved and stress/frustration levels reduced. I have used it in a shower repair, and to run a new line to my dishwasher. It's fast, reliable and ties into existing plumbing quickly and with little effort. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7321 Registered: 12-2003 |
I've been looking at PEX tubing for plumbing as well...same tubing they use in water-based radiant heating under the flooring. Dunno if it passes code here in the states yet, though. DO we have any plumbers or inspectors in the e-house?! | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 630 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mack, just to clarify, the part of Woodbridge south of Calumet is a city historic district as well as a state district. The part of Woodbridge north of Calumet is only a state designated district. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7324 Registered: 12-2003 |
Holy shit, who would've thought the HISTORIC COMMISSION redlines?! | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2006 |
Aiw, soldering is easy.... when you do it on new pipe. If you try add to existing pipe that has water in it, then it can and will be a major pita. I probably did 4 thousand solder joints in my house, when I pressured it up the first time, I had 3 leaks, all above a beam in the downstairs hallway. Couldn't get the propane torch in there and still see what I was doing. The Pex stuff is great for retrofits without tearing up the walls. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6040 Registered: 10-2003 |
f_w, everytime I tried it, it was a retrofit to existing plumming. Once was a repair to a ruptured outdoor line. Gannon, similar but not quite the same. The infloor stuff is slightly different and can't be used for regular plumbing. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2006 |
Just called the Detroit Historic Commission to double check designation, I'm not sure about Lincoln & Trumbull (didn't think to ask) but Commonwealth and Avery are just state not city historic districts regardless of S/N of Calumet. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9018 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mackcreative, are you doing anything with the swinging door in one of your pics? I am looking for a 5 panel swinging dor for my dining room as the original one was removed years ago. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7332 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh no, I know that...sorry. One European firm I looked into uses a similar tubing, though...even for their fire supression. I think they were trying to make one tube do it all...the interesting qualities of PEX tube structure allows for a much greater range of application. Discovered it when the boys were first considering the Vinton project...thinking about what cool technology might allow interesting architecture in cement floored and ceilinged rectangles with lots of tiny windows. I've been around way too many construction sites on the Gold Coast in Chicago...there are many, many problems trying to fit conventional materials and procedures into rehabbed commercial space. Tiny, high velocity AC with equally tiny unconventional tubed plumbing and radiant heating combine to allow the maximum interior space utilization AND creature comfort. Ain't a bit of it cheap, though. In high-end high-rises, the equation can be loose enough to fit it. Best thing about this tubing IS obviously the lack of need to solder fixed-angle corners in all the time...and it allows some interestingly narrow walls, even radical curvatures. All the while still serving the heating, plumbing, and fire control needs in a high-rise. Same cold water system 'could' serve the fire suppression...you'd need a pressure reduction valve at the location of stuff that uses regular pressure, but that could be done for each room that requires it, since they usually have multiple applications per...sink, shower, tub, and toilet...or sink, ice maker/fridge, and dish washer, unless you add the cool, new spigot above the stove for filling all your soup-simmering pots easily. (that'll be another cool feature that goes unused, like all those body sprays in ultra-showers!) Along with the advent of 'on-demand' water heaters...architecture could get very interesting. The only fixed, rigid piping might be the drains. I'm sure it's happening, I just haven't been in the position to check. It is likely that code will never adapt quick enough for these applications, though. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2006 |
Goat, let me get back to you on the door, I know there are some big 5 panel sliding doors we're not using, but I'm not certain about that swinging door. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6041 Registered: 10-2003 |
'on-demand' water heaters are the coolest home renovation innovation in a long while. If they weren't so damn expensive, I would switch in a heartbeat. Not only are they more economical, but the real estate that gets freed up is outstanding. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9020 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks Mackcreative. AIW, I have been told they are much cheaper in the U.S. than in Canada (CSA approval? Who cares?). Though I haven't checked them out myself. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 996 Registered: 11-2004 |
One of the big concerns I have with buying an old house is contamination from led-based paint or asbestos. To abate these types of materials, should one buy the right equipment and do it on their own or is it something that should be contracted out? I have heard of people removing led-based paint by scraping it off or removing the plaster wall while wearing a breathing mask. But the dust that lingers afterward is what scares me. I don't want to breathe that crap or expose my neighbors to it. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9022 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lead based paint could be a do-it-yourself project (make sure you have a PROPER breathing apparatus, not a dusk mask.) Use a hose to wet the paint down as you remove it as it will keep any dust down. If you are doing the work in a house a spray bottle will work fine. I would recommend a heat gun and heat iron for flat surfaces. Stay away from torches unless you are a professional. If there is any asbestos get a professional. DO NOT do it yourself. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2815 Registered: 10-2003 |
Historic Designation is great! You can write off 25 percent of your exterior renovation in Historic Districts! My neighbors and I in Hubbard Farms helped get HD twelve or so years back. It has been a great incentive for non-profit groups like Southwest Solutions to renovate old white elephant apt. buildings. And of course, property values have only gone up. Historic Designation is good for everyone. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6044 Registered: 10-2003 |
Asbestos, if it isn't flaking of crumbling, is perfectly fine and safe. Left undisturbed, it will cause you no problems. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 997 Registered: 11-2004 |
How do you know if old paint is lead-based? Should you just assume that all old paint is lead-based or are there defining characteristics? Also, aren't there certain restrictions with historic districts? I have heard some horror stories about not being able to replace windows or paint their house certain colors because of historic district regulations. I love the idea of the tax break, but the idea of having to wade through more bureaucracy is not appealing. | ||
Ha_asfan Member Username: Ha_asfan Post Number: 52 Registered: 06-2006 |
Some historic districts may have more regualtions than others but the layers of protection offered by the historic designation are very very valuable, indeed. Window replacement is still the number one crime! Old wooden windows can be stripped repaired at far less cost than new windows, will maintain the look and function of the original design and in the end, be a product to be proud of. Just completed the restoration of 30+ windows on a 1918 house, beautiful windows, no drafts, no leaks, nice wavy glass...and, 100% authentic. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 998 Registered: 11-2004 |
I like the idea of preserving old windows, however, I hate how energy inefficient they can be. When it comes down to it, if its a normal window, i.e. not decorative leaded glass or something along those lines, I would rather put in a new energy efficient window than stick with a historic one that leaks heat like a sieve. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 893 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ha_asfan, Interestingly, I have about 30+ original windows in a 1909 house that need attention. How much should I expect to spend to restore them and who did the work on your house? I've been told that if the work is done right, the old windows can be nearly as energy-efficient as new. Is this your experience? | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 161 Registered: 08-2006 |
Is there anything like a retrofit that would function like an interior storm window? | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 894 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yeah, it's called plastic!  | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'd recommend testing everything before putting an offer in on a house; if you're going to be dealing with toxins you at least want a deal! You can buy lead kits online, or have a company do it for you, don't forget to test the water too. The little lead test sticks are handy for testing lots of different surfaces. We found the varnish on the woodwork contained lead to our surprise. There is a product called "Child Guard" which is a lead-encapsulating paint for surfaces that are not chipping. It's important to document all your abatement measures for when the time comes to sell the house. As for asbestos, you can send samples to EMSL Analytical in Ann Arbor and they will test it for you; in old homes, the plaster is more likely to have horse hair than asbestos. The asbestos is usually in floor tiles,mastic, and textured ceilings, and dangerous if it is crumbling; key is to keep it wet. Also wear a respirator, not just a dust mask, with the proper type filters, hat, coverall/tyvek suit, gloves, and disposable clothes/shoes. The National Park Service preservation briefs further detail dealing with lead abatement and other issues at: http://www.cr.nps.gov/hps/tps/ briefs/presbhom.htm We had Turner Window Restoration look at restoring our windows, he charges $65/hr, the average window takes 8-10 hours. You can find him through the Detroit Historic Commission. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9026 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mackcreative, please send me an Email dcouvillion@sympatico.ca with regards to the other doors (if you still have them) that you are not using. I could still use a couple that were never replaced. If you could tell me the dimensions and what you want for them I would greatly appreciate it. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 257 Registered: 10-2006 |
e_h, just wait 24 months, you can put everything you want in the house, just wait for the coming depression. Those of us outside M_D, can see what's coming. The Flavor-aid drinkers won't agree, but we'll see. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 999 Registered: 11-2004 |
Bump Would still like to hear any other home-renovation stories from whomever wants to share. | ||
Courtney Member Username: Courtney Post Number: 106 Registered: 06-2004 |
Two things I learned: lead kits aren't so great and shop vac type vac for lead paint type crap is impossible unless you have the money to afford a nearly $1000 machine. Aside from the layers of paint being very hard to ensure COMPLETE testing from those lead test swabs, old plaster will give it a false negative. On the vacs, just because it has a HEPA filter doesn't mean it's safe. Most blow all sorts of large dust particles everywhere out of the unit. Given lead particles are a whole lot smaller, you'd be getting less lead licking up the chips than vacuuming. You would need a SEALED vacuum. Right now I'm taking a break from pulling up old vinyl floor tiles. Not the lovely asbestos ones, thankfully, but after that test, I realized that I was being over paranoid with the hazards of (some) old house stuff. Given the sky high level of toxins in most big box store paint, caulks, new mattresses, new carpet and everything else, I would take my chances with an old house over a new one any day. Anyone know where you can locally buy plaster washers by the box? I finally found them at Frentz & Son hardware in Royal Oak, but they are sold by the piece. Counting out a few hundred with an almost 4 year old trying to "help" isn't my idea of fun. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 9 Registered: 08-2006 |
Anyone know a reputable roofer willing to work in the cold? | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 978 Registered: 10-2003 |
mack; the guy who owns the duplex on the corner of willis and trumbull just (about a month ago) had it re-roofed and was pretty pleased with their roof. i seem to remember the weather was pretty poor at the time. i can find out their contact info if you'd like. | ||
Moreta Member Username: Moreta Post Number: 279 Registered: 09-2004 |
I loooove my tankless water heater, although I'm sure my marathon showers completely eliminate any efficiency savings from the poor thing. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1000 Registered: 11-2004 |
Hey Mackcreative, what's the history behind your duplex? Was it vacant when you bought it? | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2006 |
Goat: I will email you about the doors, but it'll be a while yet; ALL the doors are off now and I'm not sure which we'll need or not. E_hemingway: Our duplex had severe water damage and years of neglect when the previous owner bought it 10 years ago, they gutted much of it and stabilized the structure but it has not been habitable for 10+ years. | ||
Michikraut Member Username: Michikraut Post Number: 200 Registered: 05-2004 |
Question: was wondering if these old houses could be hooked up to a vertical Geothermal heating/cooling unit?? My parents built a colossal home (wether it makes sense or not- another story) and did Geothermal and solar cells on the roof- the gas/electrical bill is never more than $50-60 a month. My dad put in horizontal pipes- enough to do house and 5 bay garage and though the area needed is large- many of the yards in older neighborhoods could possibly work. (just can´t plant any big trees) Over here in Germany due to plot restrictions, many Geothermal users are drilling two-three vertical wells to heat/cool house. The cooling part does work best with air ducts but one does not have to install air ducts for heating as the geothermal heat pump can heat up the water for radiator-heating. Is such a method possible in a city?? codes? Seems to me a logical step if buying a big ol´white elephant of a house? | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1001 Registered: 11-2004 |
Hmmmnnn... Did the previous owner plan on flipping the house or making it a rental or their own home? Do you why the project went off track? Thanks. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 11 Registered: 08-2006 |
The previous owner has lived across the street for 30+ years, she also owns the house we live in (next door) and several others in the neighborhood that they rehabbed slowly over the years, unfortunately her husband died and thus was unable to finish the project. |
