Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » How to fix DPS? « Previous Next »
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 350
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How would you guys fix Detroit Public Schools? It seems to be having the same problems that other school systems have, but the city is in worse shape than most other older northern cities. It seems like good schools are key to growing population. What do you guys think should be done to fix the Detroit school system?

Do you guys have neighborhood schools, or do you have wide scale bussing too?
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Start over.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 449
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have neighborhood schools, though I would not be surprised if there are some places where kids are bused. Detroit is a big place, and schools are being closed to 'right side' the combo between the population loss, and the charter/inter-district transfers that have decimated poorer school districts in Michigan, and Detroit specifically.

I think Detroit's Public School Problem is the same as many governments. As number of workers shrink, the need for management becomes less. Current managers do whatever they can to keep their power, including unintentional but incredibly stupid wasteful things. They need to clean house at this level, move some folks back into the schools where they can actually TEACH!
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 73
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 2:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are a number of key factors that MUST be put in place in order for Detroit Public Schools to succeed from now on.

1. Restructure the management/administrative of DPS and how it operates.

Detroit Public Schools in my opinion is operated by people who really don't see the real problem with the way the system has been operating. It’s like they operate as if Detroit has it same population and spends as if there are more than 250,000+ students in the district. How many top level administrators actually go around and see the need of DPS often? Years back when Dr. Deborah McGriff ran DPS, DPS was stable in my opinion and I was a child noticing how DPS educated its children better than today. The system has to adjust when population drops even before it may happen the following school year. The school board to me is not effective at all and the power needs to be shifted to the principals, teachers and parents to take control.

2. Eliminate teachers who are not teaching students what they need to know. Require all DPS teachers obtain a masters degree within 2 years of obtaining a bachelors degree in order to continue teaching.

My experience in the school system showed me that there are a large number of teachers who don’t properly teach the children. They should implement a method where if a student doesn’t understand, they just shouldn’t go on to the next chapter but take time and make sure all students know the material and make it MANDATORY. Some teachers just don’t care as they have told many of us when I was being educated. Monitor lesson plans and have weekly progress reports on teachers and students. If there are weekly progress reports, then the school and parents can look at the student’s progress.



3. Form a REAL connection with the community and parents.

Why is it that every time there is a parent teacher conference, there only a few parents who show up? I know work schedules may be a big factor, but do the parents actually care if there child or the students are learning anything? If Detroit had a system where your parent must make an appointment to check there child progress four times a month that would show where the child is at and where he/she must be in order to go further. Parent’s involvement has to be a big presence in order for DPS to be stronger and grow as a district again. The community to me has this attitude where they leave it to the school board and the Supt. to do all the work. But its takes more than them to see the students succeed. Parents always want to be the first one to scream and shout at meetings, but are they actually doing something about there child or children’s academic progress?


4. College ready, work readiness, and K-8 curriculum needs improvement.

For those students who desire to go to college, the college prep courses they offer now aren’t effective enough. The same courses offered in most colleges and universities are not offered as college prep in high school level curriculum or they are just a brush off of what they expect them to be. By setting up a curriculum exactly they way it will be as if the student is attending college in high school would prepare Detroit students ahead of the rest. 4 years of high school can show if you can comprehend the college prep courses there school offers. When students are ready for college, they would be well prepared for the courses. ACT and SAT preparation needs to be put on the curriculum as a course that better prepares students for these test. Students who desire not to go to college but want to work should be prepared in an environment where the student can obtain skills in the field they wish to work in. Preparing a student for the work force with the proper training will ensure work readiness at level where they will know what is required and expected of them.

The K-8 curriculum needs more courses added due to the ethnic, diverse, technological, and academic changes within the world. Detroit cannot afford to operate as a district based on traditional principles. That meaning, not just showing up and then teaching what they feel is enough for the students and then send them home and say do the homework they don’t understand. Detroit must play catch up as well as the U.S. in how all students K-12 are being educated today. Children who are prepared to speak other foreign languages early, learning about period tables, robotics, reading and writing English properly is a key essential.


5. Lastly, Detroit must control the fate of its own educational destiny.

If no one cares about whose learning what, then why are these teachers allowed to keep teach in DPS? The same issues keep coming up every election and at every meeting. When will there be a time in Detroit and the U.S. where America’s students are leading the pack again? We are far behind in education and innovative ideas for the students. No one wants to even take the time to make sure John Doe or Jane Doe knows how to read a story problem and solve it before the next chapter begins. What will be Detroit’s next chapter? Will it keep reading from the same old, ripped out pages? Detroit can fix itself when parents, the city, school board, supt., teachers and principals actually come together and say “These children need our help and we must fix our system before it collapses into itself".

Detroit can feed off the DPS system as a resurgence of its neighborhood. No one from outside the city or beyond won’t bring there children to DPS until they see progress. If politicians don’t send there children or recommend DPS as a choice, who will? I’m pulling for Detroit and after college; I will be very much involved in Detroit and DPS to make sure our city, school system and neighborhoods are world class.

Happy Holidays to All
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 147
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Weird. I pitched this EXACT story idea to the powers that be at my paper two days ago. Let's see if it happens.
Some days, I wish the people on DY were my elected representatives. There are more great ideas expressed here than in any council or school board meeting.
But the truth, which sucks, is that short of a huge influx of funding, things aren't looking good. Based on how schools are funded, that ain't gonna happen unless there is some wealthy benefactor to lend a hand and many millions of dollars.
Rooting out the corruption is pretty key, and Coleman is a helluva lot better than Jefferson was. But can Detroit, a city that's trying to rebound and is at a key moment of said rebirth effort, actually afford a slow turnaround?
All of this new housing that's going in, who will live here if the schools suck? (Besides the single or childless set?)
There obviously is little reason for John and Jane Parent in Novi or Birmingham to care about the kids in DPS. And the suburbs have proved time and time again that they care not about the city's livlihood other than security around the sports arenas.
I sound like a Democrat here, pointing out an obvious problem and not offering a solution, but well...um... I dunno.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 275
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 8:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my opinion, education is far more important then mass transit.

In many cities around the World, mass transit is run by those who know how to attract and keep riders.

If Detroit fixes their schools, they would then have the young minds armed with much knowledge and abilities needed to live and work in Detroit and run their government for all the residents of Detroit and to make our region work by cooperating with the suburbs such as Livonia. This includes working hard to build a World class public mass transit system that we can all be proud to support with our limited transportation tax dollars.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1838
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Require all DPS teachers obtain a masters degree within 2 years of obtaining a bachelors degree in order to continue teaching."


A masters in teaching is a mostly worthless "basket-weaving" degree used usually in order to get more pay from the school districts. It's essentially a series of pablum courses in psychobabble that has been very effective (as can be witnessed by its fab results) NOT.

Teacher candidates, in general, has the lowest skill levels and academics of just about any "major" in colleges today--a known fact for some three decades. Most teachers' ACT or SAT scores are considerably lower than the mean (or also, median) high-school graduate.

What is really needed is a means to attract really competent grads into teaching, not just mandating that the current crop get bestowed with a meaningless masters degree in teaching. (A masters in an truly academic area is another story.)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 779
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

QUOTE:
2. Eliminate teachers who are not teaching students what they need to know. Require all DPS teachers obtain a masters degree within 2 years of obtaining a bachelors degree in order to continue teaching.

I agree!! Those teachers who aren't teaching make it much more difficult for those of us who do teach. Students come to us without the basic skills needed to go on to the next level so we have to start from scratch. This often leaves students shortchanged because they aren't where they are supposed to be for that grade level. There are teachers in our building (more than a handful) who do nothing in the class. One teacher gives good grades to students she likes and who curl her hair!! Kids complain because they don't learn anything. Parents complain because the kids tell them what is going on. Then, those teachers who do teach are inundated with kids when the parents demand they be taken out of the slackers' classes. I have 50+ kids in each class now and most came in half way through and came from two other teachers who don't teach.

Quote:
Why is it that every time there is a parent teacher conference, there only a few parents who show up?

Again, I agree! Out of 300 students, I saw 10 parents at the last PTC. They will call the school to find out why their child received a F on their report card, but won't show up to PTC. Now, if a student gets his/her cell phone taken away parents are up at the school immediately. If their child is in a fight and that child calls them on the phone, BAM, they and all their people come in ready for battle.

I can say that if the kids complain at home about a teacher not teaching, parents do make a stink...if they are vested in their child's education. Not many call to complain about these things, though. We mostly get complaints about how a teacher is being unreasonable in asking the student to do homework...they have to watch their siblings and go to work, you know. I have more parents making excuses as to why their child (who is about to graduate) couldn't do their research paper and have it in on time because of this excuse or that. I provide a syllabus with due dates on it for major projects...at the beginning of the year. Students and parents are well aware of upcoming project due dates. I don't accept late work for the major projects such as a research paper...and for this I get parents beating down my door. Perhaps if parents taught kids to manage their time and to adhere to deadlines there wouldn't be a need for them to come and plead their child's case.

I also think that admin should have to teach at least one class per year (this includes Coleman and his entourage in the Ivory Towers) so that they realize exactly what NEEDS to happen IN THE CLASSROOM! Education is all about the kids. What we need IN the class (overheads, books, etc) is important but no one seems to realize this.

(Message edited by detroitteacher on December 02, 2006)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 780
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois wrote:
Teacher candidates, in general, has the lowest skill levels

Livernois, you got snarky with me a few times over typos and such. Just a reminder that if you have a plural subject, your verb must reflect that. It should be Teacher candidates, in general, HAVE
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1839
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Snark, snark...

(1) "Students come to us without the basic skills needed to go on to the next level so we have to start from scratch."

Add a comma.

(2) "I have 50+ kids in each class now and most came in half way through and came from two other teachers who don't teach."

This adverb should read (one word): halfway.

(3) "Why is it that every time there is a parent teacher conference, there only a few parents who show up?"

Awkward (and incorrect) construction. Sounds like "playground" talk. Delete there and who.

(4) "Out of 300 students, I saw 10 parents at the last PTC."

The CMoS (Chicago Manual of Style) or most other style guides would specify that "ten" be used here.

(5) "They will call the school to find out why their child received a F on their report card, but won't show up to PTC."

This should be "an F."

(6) "I have more parents making excuses as to why their child (who is about to graduate) couldn't do their research paper and have it in on time because of this excuse or that."

It should be "his research paper" or "her research paper" (unless their child is doing the parents' research paper).

(7) "What we need IN the class (overheads, books, etc) is important but no one seems to realize this."

Two items here: a period and a comma are missing.

(8) "I don't accept late work for the major projects such as a research paper...and for this I get parents beating down my door."

Add a comma.

(9) "Perhaps if parents taught kids to manage their time and to adhere to deadlines there wouldn't be a need for them to come and plead their child's case."

Add commas.


All things considered, your grammar and punctuation are improving. You displayed a marked improvement in not using those typical 300-word (or longer) paragraphs as before.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1938
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard, it's been clear from several posts of yours that you don't like public school teachers, especially Detroit teachers. I don't know which teacher during your public school years disappointed you or let you down, but you have a serious chip on your shoulder.

Also, for someone who doesn't even live in Detroit or Michigan, it amazes me how interested you are in the things that go on in this city and this state. Your comments are mostly negative, so why do you bother posting? Are you a sadist?

Livernoisyard, given the fact that you went to Catholic school most of your life, why such hatred towards public school teachers? If you think we're the dumbest college grads out here, then how do you propose to get the smartest grads into teaching? Your negative comments about public school teachers at this point are just beating a dead horse. Offer some ideas to improve public school teaching or STFU.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 162
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe he was molested by one of the nuns or something. It's bad enough that we, the people who actually give a damn about the city of Detroit, have to deal with the naysaying suburbanites. To have to put up with this stuff from someone who doesn't even live in this state is even more infuriating.
Does he have a right to complain and snipe? Sure, free country and all, but why these types feel it necessary to waste their time and ours is beyond me.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 450
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I echo and support the move to get rid of teachers that do not perform. They should be the first ones cut in any layoff. People like that give govt workers a bad name.

I also support the notion that there must be more parental involvement in the education process. Parents must be courted by the school district and shown they are welcome at their school. I have a feeling that parents are seen as an influence that they do not want to have (as it dampers the teachers/principal's fascist sense of control over the student)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 781
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd love to have parents come and volunteer in my classroom. I need plenty of help in guiding students with groupwork, especially with 50+ in class. When parents do approach me about their child, I often extend the invite to join my class. A few have and have complimented me, they even stayed to help in other classes. Many more never show up. I had a parent conference scheduled (the parent scheduled the day and time) and she didn't show up, nor did she call to cancel. Threw a kink in my day since I rearranged things so that I could meet with her.
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 74
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,
I commend you on being a teacher who really cares. We need more


My mother is a teacher and every time I go visit her classroom, the students are unbelievable. The parents act just like the students and at times worse than the students. One example I saw was when she had to call security or the principal because students are throwing books, turning off the lights, or pushing desk around. The way she handled that was making them all stand in the hallway for a week standing and learning about the subject. She said if they don’t want to sit in the desk, then they will stand and learn. They were complaining because they had to stand all week, but when you were sitting you didn’t want to learn.

She says you call the parents and they don't do a thing. It’s the parents who have to really be involved in DPS. As a former DPS student, I have seen it all. As Detroitteacher was saying about only 10 out of the 300 students parents show up is the reality in DPS. I use to wonder about the students who failed because they didn't care because there parents wasn't going to do anything. Only a few come up there to check on progress. This is the sad reality of DPS. That’s why I say the people who are in higher positions really need to go into the classroom and see the real deal. Don't just show up for career day or just for a photo opportunity showing a new school built, actually go inside and sit for a whole day or week and see what they are learning. Why is it that when principals or teachers know someone of high profile or from the administrative level sugar coat the learning of a public school student? They act as if they are learning and when the person is gone the student is still clueless about the subject.

It is very pointless to build a new building and have the same results in academic failure. Also, the labels on the schools that are better than others have to come to an end. Why can't there be an test administered to all schools to get in instead of having just 3 or 4 schools considered to be the best Detroit has to offer. That to me is showing that you have only a few schools that do well and the same ones keep showing the same result in failure year after year. There are many parents making excuses for there children’s failure. Again, this falls on a lot of parent’s.


Livernoisyard

Obtaining a master’s degree is the key essential to showing parents inside and outside the city how qualified the teacher is. The needs be a course syllabus presented to students and they can see where there teachers level of teaching is at. Make that mandatory as well as make those parents sign it knowing what kind of teacher is teaching there child. But you make it seem as if obtaining a master’s degree is only to make more money and that is simply unacceptable thinking. Whatever university or college you obtain your master’s degree from, you are learning whatever you plan to do with that degree you didn’t know while obtaining an bachelors. Competent grads into teaching is there, its just the lack of effort from the top all the way to the parents to make sure Detroit students are really learning.


If I had my way, I would require a doctoral degree to teach in DPS and then see what results may come out of the student’s progress. I have a plan for DPS and will send it to Coleman and see if he would consider anything I am proposing to help Detroit. Soon to be a college grad myself and will be much involved in the DPS as well as city involvement soon. But what about the mayor? A former teacher himself has not presented a viable plan for DPS yet and this is his second term? There needs to be a coming together of the community. I believe some will consider me a trouble maker for making my presence known in the upcoming months, but care about my city. Detroit potential is there, we all just have to come out and support it.

At times I want to just debate Kwame and Supt. Coleman and show them where they are not at. Many have pushed me to run against Kwame in the next election and I may. This traditional, “leave it up to the Supt. and teachers attitude has to end”. They can’t do it all by themselves. Someone has to tell these parents the truth about there children and themselves. If you want your child to succeed, then show up for PTC, demand a weekly progress report, and take the time and get to know your child’s teacher. I say we can form our own Academic Action Committee ourselves and show the school board and Supt. Coleman how to run DPS.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 782
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All of my students have access to Blackboard (offered to all Wayne County teachers free of charge). I post all of my notes, assignments, extra credit, projects, syllabus, grades, a discussion board, contact info for myself (my home number included), College Prep links, etc. Many students use this tool. Many find it helpful for out of the classroom support. Not one parent has logged on. One needs a username and password to access information. While I realize that not all students have access to computers at home, I make it available to ALL students. My students can phone me at home, email me, and we often are involved in online dialogue.

I don't know what I can do to make my class any more available and accessible to my students, even those with excessive absences.

I am the ONLY teacher in my building to use this tool. I have offered to show other teachers how easy it will make life for them (no more hassles about what did I miss yesterday?, can I have makeup work?, I didn't get notes because I was absent...etc). Only 2 teachers have shown interest.

I don't agree with requiring every teacher to get PhD. I will soon have 3 Master's Degrees and have no desire to get a Doctorate. It took me a few years to get those Master's Degrees (some folks just can't do it in 2 years because we really do have lives outside of the classroom). NCLB also requires teachers to have a Master's Degree and take a state test in their subject areas (so things are looking better regarding teacher education).

I work with some great teachers and some horrible teachers. I say make the process to rate a teacher UnSat easier and less time consuming. Then again, I ask...Who wants to teach in a district with so many problems, such as Detroit? A few may but the vast majority are looking elsewhere.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 351
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know how well the plan will work, but in Milwaukee, the city plans on building a nice new elementary/middle school for the downtown. The school is reserved for just residents of downtown. They have the plans but they haven't built it yet. It sounds like a cool idea to get young families downtown, which is their goal.

The city is also planning on going back to neighborhood schools. This kills some areas while saving others. By doing this I think the state and the city can have a more defined problem area. If Detroit has neighborhood schools, then I'd be a little shocked. Detroit has some nice middle class neighborhoods, yet it seems like a larger majority of schools are bad compared to the number of bad neighborhoods.

The point of my first comment is that downtown Detroit should try something like that. If their goal is a thriving downtown and surrounding neighborhoods, then make neighborhood schools downtown.

To be honest, the whole idea would be to keep the poor people out. Rich and middle class people will not be interested in an impoverished school. The thought of impoverished students makes most think bad school. If suburbanites think there aren't any good public schools to send their kids to, then they aren't moving downtown. Thus the city loses more tax money, a building or lot stays vacant, and people continue to avoid the city.
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

Why get so many master's degrees when you can get one master's and obtain an doctorate? But I'm not knocking you for obtaining 3 masters degrees at all.I think it's very good that you will have three.

They way you run your classroom is the same way my professors run theres. We have access to the internet, e-mail, cell phone, home phone, online chatting, and office hours when posted. Why don't Detroit introduce that measure to all its teachers?
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 352
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Kansas City Public School system poured millions of dollars into their public schools about 10 years ago. They tried different experiments at different schools and only one school saw dramatically higher test grades. The school required 5 hours of service from every parent. The parent also had meetings with teachers every two weeks. Parents had to help teachers or decorate the school. The service just got people involved in the school and the lives of their kids. If the parent didn't want to do that then the kid would have to leave the school.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 783
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am receiving Master's Degrees in three areas--Teaching and Learning, Learning Disabilities, and Autism Spectrum Disorders.

These three allow me to do various things in teaching. I can teach General Ed, Special Ed and the Autistic Program. I just have interests in all and wanted to become well rounded. I double majored in History and English and am highly qualified to teach both. I might go on to earn a Master's in History after these three.

I have no desire to earn a Doctorate since they are practically useless in the teaching field unless one wants to teach at the collegiate level (which I don't).

I love my kids and am most useful where I am teaching. DPS encourages teachers to be available to students and parents but I understand why teachers don't want to give out home and cell numbers. Some of the bad apples (teachers) would get harassed. My students respect my time limits on phone calls (not before 10 am on weekends and not after 10pm at all). They also know I don't answer private calls. I do stay after school if students ask. i am generally there an hour before school starts and kids can come in then to get help if no other option suits them.

Many teachers don't use the internet or even know how to use a computer, so email is out for them. I really can't say why teachers don't become more accessible to kids. It's why I got into teaching, to help kids become better people...
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1246
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milwaukee, you have some very interesting points you are bringing up. As part of No Child Left Behind, there is a component where schools have to reach out to parents and the community, and increase their involvement and interaction. Kansas City Public Schools, have put in place some very innovative ideas and there are lots of studies going on to see how effective these really are. But the initial findings have been vert positive.

I also wanted to ask you about something I heard in one of my master classes (you know those useless ones Livernoisyard was talking about). If I remember correctly, Milwaukee has put in place a school voucher program, do you know how successful this has been?
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Yvette248
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Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Getting rid of the teachers' union would be an EXCELLENT start! Mess with their money and see who are really "putting the children first".
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 354
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

School voucher has really hurt Milwaukee Public Schools and has been largely unsuccesful. The problem is that there is a complete lack of regulation in the system.

The voucher system has been manipultated numerous times by people who take the state aid and spend it irresponsibly (ie. a Milwaukee voucher school owner who spent 67K on a new Mercades rather than his school). I've heard numerous cases of students just put in an old storefront and given videos to watch. Several voucher schools have developed into the violent hellholes that the old public schools were. So basically my view is that the voucher program has been very ineffective and is a terrible idea for Detroit. The voucher program will recieve big support in out-lying exurbs with low taxes. Voucher schools are much cheaper than public schools.

MPS is very like DPS with almost all the same problems. It is much more responsible and effective to give money to schools that have regulations and have to show results than to give money to essentially a warehousing system set up to keep the poor, poor.

I think Detroitteacher can verify the problems that voucher schools cause Public Schools.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1247
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just curious, since I had heard they had the program, but no one has mentioned if it was a success fo failure. Thanks!!!!
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"success fo failure"


fo? That's really a bad spell of something, possibly "or?"

BTW, Milwaukee's voucher program has been in effect for over sixteen years, and nobody is holding a gun to the 26% of Milwaukee's kids who attend them.

So, Milwaukee: How come you quickly dismiss all the $ millions of corruption in DPS and only mention a paltry Milwaukee example or three? I detect some bias there--considering you attended a Milwaukee voucher school yourself, MUHS--my first of two high schools--as a non-vouchered M'waukee suburbanite.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on December 02, 2006)
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Bob
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DPS teachers vote to can union president.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20061202/NEW S99/61202015
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Teachers and other union staff voted in secret ballots at DPS schools from Nov. 13-15. The votes were counted by an independent voting service and were tallied up on Saturday."


Just why does it take over two weeks to tally those votes? Seems strange.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Glad Cantrell was voted in!! We need a change and maybe, just maybe, she is it. Her platform seemed to be for the benefit of the kids...
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Jasoncw
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well Detroitteacher, I'd say you're doing a good job. I think it's even better that you're trying to help the other teachers be better too, even if they're not receptive. Eventually they'll either give new things some effort, or they'll retire and maybe someone more willing will take their places.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, Yvette248! Somehow, like me, I doubt that you believe that Cantrell's platform doesn't seem "to be for the benefit of the kids...".

That's not an realistic issue that union members vote for--although, they may lie and say so, on occasion. Seriously, it's the money. It's always the money.
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Detroitteacher
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it were the money, I'd be in another profession. If I did stay in teaching, it sure wouldn't be "for the money" in DPS. There isn't ay and I've had no raise for YEARS. So much for being in it for the money.
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Detroitteacher
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois, have you listened to, read or otherwise been informed of Cantrell's platform, seeing as how you don't even live in this area??
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. "detect some bias there--considering you attended a Milwaukee voucher school yourself, MUHS"

For Detroiter's information Marquette High School is a Catholic High School in Milwaukee. Marquette is not a voucher school.

State education money is not allowed to go to private religious schools. Milwaukee's voucher schools are secular. The school's cannot be affiliated with religion, because federal and state money cannot go to religious organizations. Even though Milwaukee has good catholic school's, students cannot get vouchers to go to them. Seperation of church and state.

2."So, Milwaukee: How come you quickly dismiss all the $ millions of corruption in DPS and only mention a paltry Milwaukee example or three?"

It sounds like the DPS reforms itself, Milwaukee police and state education officials have spent millions of dollars trying to arrest and convict corrupt voucher school owners in Milwaukee.

3. "BTW, Milwaukee's voucher program has been in effect for over sixteen years, and nobody is holding a gun to the 26% of Milwaukee's kids who attend them."

Students aren't getting results from MPS so they're turning to the next option. Voucher schools may be seen as better than many city high school's but that doesn't mean that they're successful at educating students.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"1. "detect some bias there--considering you attended a Milwaukee voucher school yourself, MUHS"

For Detroiter's information Marquette High School is a Catholic High School in Milwaukee. Marquette is not a voucher school.

State education money is not allowed to go to private religious schools. Milwaukee's voucher schools are secular. The school's cannot be affiliated with religion, because federal and state money cannot go to religious organizations. Even though Milwaukee has good catholic school's, students cannot get vouchers to go to them. Seperation of church and state."


Duh! I'm at a crossroad. Should I believe "Milwaukee"--allegedly a DY poster from Milwaukee with a rather uneven track record regarding fact? Or should I believe the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel--Milwaukee's major daily? Being crazy--like a fox, I'll report; you decide...

BTW, I doubted before (due to gross inconsistencies on his part) that "Milwaukee" was from M'Waukee. His previous post casts even more doubt in that direction...

Big 'C' or little 'c' Catholic?
Catholic schools struggle with identity issues as their student bodies grow more diverse
By SARAH CARR and LEONARD SYKES JR.
scarr@journalsentinel.com

Fifth of 7 parts

Each year, at least a few of the elderly parishioners of St. John Kanty, a Catholic parish on the city's south side, sell their houses or pass away, and Latino families take their place.

Without school vouchers, St. John Kanty School would be gone, too.

Vouchers have preserved dozens of religious schools in Milwaukee, but they've also presented them with a unique set of challenges.

In the seven years since the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program expanded to include religious schools, St. John Kanty's choice enrollment has steadily climbed along with the growing Latino population in the neighborhood. This year, 70% of the 140 students at St. John Kanty participate in the voucher program.

Without choice?

"We'd be closed," says Beth Eichman, principal of the school.

In most other cities in America, St. John Kanty would have shut down as its traditional parish base moved to the suburbs and Latino families who could not afford the tuition at the school moved in.

"The money just wouldn't be there" to keep so many city schools open without choice, said David Prothero, director of Catholic education for the Archdiocese of Milwaukee.

This school year, 56% of the students enrolled at Catholic elementary schools in the city of Milwaukee participate in choice, bringing tuition vouchers worth close to $6,000 apiece along with them. As a result, Milwaukee's Catholic schools have stayed open to serve more poor students, more minority students and more non-Catholics than in other cities.

By contrast, earlier this year, the Archdiocese of Chicago said it would close 23 city and suburban elementary schools at the end of the school year, most of them in poor, minority neighborhoods.

But the rapidly changing student population in the Catholic schools in Milwaukee has come with its own set of issues: How can they teach theology to children who, increasingly, do not come from Catholic backgrounds? How can teaching staffs, which for years have been nearly all white, be diversified? And, for a school used to serving kids from one parish - kids often tightly connected by race, class and religion - how can the notion of what a Catholic school is, or should be, be broadened?
A question of identity

For Brother Bob Smith, the president of Messmer Catholic Schools: "Catholic means universal. We've always been an immigrant church, and opened our doors to the poor."

Still, some school officials are soul-searching about the mission and nature of their schools.

At St. Catherine of Alexandria School on the city's far northwest side, the percentage of non-Catholics has steadily risen in recent years; it's now above 40%. The percentage of choice students also has increased, to 42%; the school would like to keep it between 40% and 45% for now.

"When I started 25 years ago, everybody was Catholic," said Linda Kuhn, the principal. She said the church welcomes the changing demographics of the school, but "there is concern, particularly among older parishioners, that we want to keep the Catholic identity."

At St. Sebastian School on the city's west side, about 28% of the students participate in the choice program. That percentage increases every year, along with the number of students who aren't Catholic.

"Are we a parish school or an alternative to MPS?" asked Principal Paul Hohl. "Right now we are still a parish school, but we are talking more about that. We've seen that happen in other schools where they get so many choice students they can turn into something they weren't before, or didn't plan on being."

Kathryn McGrane-Sargent, co-chair of the school's education committee, said, "We view our participation the choice program as a very important aspect of our being a city school."

But she added that the committee recently decided to cap the percentage of choice students at 25%. McGrane-Sargent called it a "soft cap," noting that St. Sebastian won't turn away current choice students or their siblings. They wanted the cap, she said, to ensure that the school didn't grow too dependent on voucher money, and would keep its identity as a predominantly neighborhood and Catholic school.

"St. Sebastian is first and foremost a faith community," she said. "We wanted to make sure the people who attend our school are people committed to Catholic values . . . and to keep the neighborhood participation alive, and not have that in any way changed unnecessarily."

A higher percentage of the choice students come from outside the parish and neighborhood, and "when people come from a distance, it is more difficult for them to show up at a fish fry to volunteer or just be a part of daily life," McGrane-Sargent said.
A balancing act

In south side neighborhoods with exploding numbers of Latino families, the dynamic is different than in north side neighborhoods with largely African-American populations - simply because Latinos are more often Catholic.

Finding the right approach to teaching religion to non-Catholics can be a balancing act, says Brother Smith, who heads up educational efforts in the 10-county Milwaukee Archdiocese, in addition to his role at Messmer.

"As schools receive more children who are low-income and may not be Catholic, there is absolutely a discussion that must take place as to how you bridge their faith with Catholicism without demeaning them, and making them feel that it is wrong or less," he said.At St. Leo Catholic Urban Academy, only six of the 178 students are Catholic, at a school that was almost exclusively white, German and Catholic when it was founded in 1908. Nearly all the students today are African-American.

"We're ecumenical," said Sue Swieciak, who teaches classes on religion and faith at the school. "We're not teaching Catholicism. We're teaching about faith and Christian values."

Swieciak does not teach about the paschal mystery, the litany of the saints, or the assumption of Mary. The religion classes have a generic feel to them.

During one recent class, Swieciak asked the students to write a prayer to the Holy Spirit. A couple of the students looked bored, but Swieciak pushed forward with the lesson, asking the students to build mobiles cut from purple construction paper. The students attached strings of varying lengths to the oval shapes to show how the Holy Spirit influences their faith, moods and behavior.

For a parent who wants their child to learn Catholic practice, the ecumenical trend might be a turnoff. But for a student such as Daniel DeVougas, a Protestant who recently graduated from Marquette University High School, it shows what he sees as a willingness to embrace a larger community. Roughly 16% of the school's student body is non-Catholic.

Dan Quesnell, the director of admissions at Marquette, says for years the school has had a tradition of accommodating other religions. Overall, he said, the emphasis is not solely on Catholicism, but allowing students to express their own spirituality.

DeVougas said he does not take communion or participate in other rites of the Catholic Church. But he has given readings from the Bible during liturgies and participated in annual Catholic retreats. Muslim students also have read from the Qur'an at Marquette High liturgies. At commencement ceremonies last month, DeVougas received the highest award given a student at the Jesuit institution.


Says DeVougas: "The emphasis is on human values, a universal morality."
Diversifying staff

Beyond teaching theology, Milwaukee Catholic schools also struggle to diversify their teaching staffs, which historically have been white and accustomed to working with parish children.

Walk into many Milwaukee Catholic elementary schools, schools like St. Catherine of Alexandria, 8660 N. 76th Place, and you will see a nearly all-white teaching staff, many of them older women. This sharply contrasts to the diversity of the student body.

Catholic schools that want to diversify their teaching staffs often find it an uphill battle. The competition for qualified, minority teachers is keen, and the Catholic schools' pay target often is 80% of the salary of MPS teachers, or less.

"You have MPS. You have other private schools. You have a high demand and a low supply," Smith said. "It's not an excuse. It's a reality."

But Catholic and Lutheran schools that have successfully diversified their faculty and staff say the payoff is worth the effort.

When Steven Gerner took over as principal of Siloah Lutheran School four years ago, he realized that it wasn't "beneficial to have all-white teachers teaching all-black students."

He started by hiring an African-American administrator and some teaching assistants, and then three African-American teachers.

Gerner said the school's relationship with parents and reputation in the community improved. The dynamic in some of the classrooms also was better. "When you talk about student discipline and body language, there is less of a cultural divide there with the African-American teachers and teaching assistants."

To some parents, having teachers of the same race is crucial. For others, it's far less important than the overall diversity and quality of the staff.

The color of the staff, the curriculum for theology class, the ties to the parish: It's all part of a shifting identity for Catholic schools across the city.

"It's a paradigm that's unknown to us," Smith said. "And there is no single best way to do it."

Alan J. Borsuk of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Answering the question regulation and standard quality.

There's no guarantee of quality in Milwaukee's voucher schools

By Barbara Miner

Reporters often ask me for a 30-second sound bite on the quality of the private schools in Milwaukee's 15-year-old voucher program, the nation's oldest. I usually say there are good schools—especially those with stricter requirements and a history that pre-dated vouchers—lots of average schools, and some not-so-great schools.

That answer is history. It's increasingly clear that a disturbing number of voucher schools are outright abominations.

An investigation this June by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel found problems in some voucher schools that—even to those numb to educational horror stories—break one's heart. No matter how severe one's criticisms of the Milwaukee Public Schools, nothing is as abysmal as the conditions at some voucher schools.

Some of them had high school graduates teaching students. Some were nothing more than refurbished, cramped storefronts. Some did not have any discernable curriculum and only a few books. Some did not teach evolution or anything else that might conflict with a literal interpretation of the Bible.

At one school, teacher and students were on their way to McDonald's. At another, lights were turned off to save money. A third used the back alley as a playground.

One school is located in an old leather factory, another in a former tire store, a third is above a vacuum cleaner shop and hair salon.

As one of the reporters said, "I think we expected from the start to see some strong schools and some weak ones. But seeing firsthand the effect that troubled schools can have on children's futures and lives was disturbing."

Overall, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel estimated that about 10 percent of the schools visited demonstrate "alarming deficiencies" without "the ability, resources, knowledge or will to offer children even a mediocre education."

That's a cautious estimate. First of all, reporters made pre-arranged visits, giving schools time to put their best faces forward. Second, nine of the program's 115 schools —an additional 8 percent—refused to allow reporters in.

Built-in Problems
It would be reassuring if these shortcomings were an aberration or mistake. Unfortunately, they are part and parcel of the program's structure.

Ever since the program began in 1990, its conservative backers have argued that free-market forces will provide sufficient checks and balances and that the voucher schools should not have to follow the rules governing "government monopoly schools" (more commonly known as "public schools"). As a result, Milwaukee's voucher schools are exempt from any number of guidelines, such as hiring certified teachers, testing students, or publicly releasing data on student achievement.

Milwaukee's voucher program began, nominally as an experiment. It initially served 337 students in seven schools. The program expanded rapidly when religious schools were allowed to join in 1998. At the end of the 2004-05 school year, almost 15,000 students in 115 schools were taking part.

Since the program's start, voucher schools have received a total of almost half a billion dollars in taxpayers' money. Yet, as one of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporters has noted, "The lack of research and data is stunning."

Through the years, voucher horror stories have occasionally cropped up—usually when a school or school administrator was caught in a flagrant illegality, parents picketed, or staff walked out because they hadn't been paid.

Alex's Academics of Excellence, for instance, operated under the public's radar screen until its founder was sentenced for tax fraud and it came to light he had previously been convicted of raping a woman at knifepoint. (The school closed last year after a raft of other problems, including two evictions, allegations that staff used drugs on school grounds, and an investigation by the district attorney's office.)

Free-Market Education
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's investigation, released as a seven-part series, was its first attempt to systematically visit and report on the voucher schools.

The series documented what many had long surmised: The city's longstanding Catholic and Lutheran schools have, by and large, requirements and oversight that help guarantee a level of quality. All teachers at schools connected with the Catholic Archdiocese, for instance, are required to be either licensed or in the process of getting a license. In addition, schools with broader institutional support, or those founded by seasoned educators, tend to have better quality.

About 50 new schools have been created as a result of the voucher program. A number were established independently by individuals with few educational credentials. These unaffiliated "free-market" schools, created in response to the supply of public voucher money, often have the most problems.

In late August, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel released an online school-by-school summary to supplement its series. The summaries show that a disturbing number of schools are beset by two overriding problems: inadequate facilities and unqualified teachers. (I'll leave concerns about fraud and scams to the district attorney's office.)

At the Sa'Rai and Zigler Upper Excellerated Academy (K4–1), principal Sa'Rai Nance doesn't even have a teaching license. She said she opened the school after she had a vision from God. Nance also said that "excellerated" is a fusion word combining accelerated and excellent and is "spelled wrong on purpose." The word "upper" refers to "the upper room where Jesus prayed."

Carter's Christian Academy (K4–1) is described as "essentially a small storefront building with a couple of tiny rooms redone as classrooms. ...There were no visible books or toys or paper." The school's two teachers have high school diplomas, and the highest-paid teacher makes $8 an hour.

At Grace Christian Academy (K4–7), one staff member privately told reporters "that there was no curriculum. Several classrooms were using worksheets downloaded from the Internet. ...There were few books or schools materials on [the] shelves or anywhere in sight." In at least one case, the summary continued, "the teacher was giving inaccurate scientific information to kids. [Principal Reginald] Armstrong says teachers use Biblical principles. He taught his class the story of Adam and Eve recently, from a literalist position." Armstrong has a teaching license, but none of the other teachers do.

Unfortunately, little happened over the summer to ensure that voucher schools meet minimal levels of educational accountability. A few financial rules were tightened up, and the state Department of Public Instruction was given limited ability to intervene when there are safety concerns. But, as the Journal Sentinel reported, "The new rules do not give the state any increased authority in overseeing the actual educational programs of schools."

The biggest development in Milwaukee's voucher program? This fall, an additional 17 voucher schools opened.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2. Voucher schools are no step up in quality, just less regulated.

How is Milwaukee's experiment to expand school choice for low-income students faring 15 years later?
By ALAN J. BORSUK AND SARAH CARR
scarr@journalsentinel.com
First in a seven-day series

Now 15 years old, Milwaukee's school choice program is very much like a teenager - heartwarmingly good at times, disturbingly bad at others, and the subject of myths, misunderstandings and ignorance, even by the adults entrusted with its welfare.

And like a teenager, it remains - for all its familiarity - a bit of a mystery. Few people, even state officials, know what is going on inside all 115 schools in the program.

Over the last five months, the Journal Sentinel attempted to visit each school and find out. In visits to 106 schools, the newspaper focused not on politics and court battles, but on the classrooms themselves - the experiences of the nearly 14,000 students now served by choice schools at a cost this year to taxpayers of $83 million.

Fifteen years ago, state government created in Milwaukee the biggest lab in the United States for one of the nation's most provocative education ideas: giving low-income parents the chance to send their children to private schools using "vouchers" to pay school costs. Eight years later, the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program expanded dramatically, and religious schools of every kind were made available to those parents.

Those visits, along with dozens of interviews with parents, students, teachers, principals, administrators and academics, revealed that many of the popular conceptions and politically motivated depictions of the program are incomplete and, in some cases, flat-out wrong.

The Journal Sentinel found that:

• The voucher schools feel, and look, surprisingly like schools in the Milwaukee Public Schools district. Both MPS and the voucher schools are struggling in the same battle to educate low-income, minority students.

• About 10% of the choice schools demonstrate alarming deficiencies. The collapse of four schools and the state's limited ability to take action against others have led to some agreement on the need for increased oversight to help shut down bad schools.

• The voucher program has brought some fresh energy to the mission of educating low-income youth in the city by fostering and financially supporting several very strong schools that might not exist otherwise. There are at least as many excellent schools as alarming ones.

• The amount of taxpayer money going to pay for religious education in Milwaukee has no parallel in the last century of American life. About 70% of the students in the program attend religious schools. Religion guides the choices that parents make, and the curriculum that a majority of schools choose, and has led to a network of dozens of independent church schools led by African-American ministers throughout the city.

• The choice program regenerated parochial schools in the city, including dozens of Catholic and Lutheran schools, which were experiencing declining enrollment. Overall, it has preserved the status quo in terms of schooling options in the city more than it has offered a range of new, innovative or distinctive schools.

• Parental choice by itself does not assure quality. Some parents pick bad schools - and keep their children in them long after it is clear the schools are failing. This has allowed some of the weakest schools in the program to remain in business.

• There is no evidence that voucher schools have "creamed" the best students from Milwaukee Public Schools, an early concern expressed by some critics. Except for the fact that the public schools are obligated to serve all special education students, the kids in the voucher program appear have the same backgrounds - and bring the same problems - as those in the public schools.

• Creating a new school through the choice program is easier than most people expected. Creating a good new school is harder than most thought it would be.

Dorothy Smith, a mother, grandmother, foster mother and adoptive mother, has seen many different stripes of the program over the last 10 years. She has enrolled several kids in choice schools, as well as MPS schools. She stresses above all else the importance of parents getting into the schools to see for themselves what they have to offer.

"A lot of time information is sugarcoated," she said. "For me, the best way to find out is to go and see for yourself."

Indeed, the Journal Sentinel found that too much of the political debate over vouchers is divorced from what's going on in classrooms. With the exception of the element of religion, it's the same story that's being played out in urban classrooms across America - a story of poverty, limited resources, poor leadership and broken families.

Many people pit school choice and the Milwaukee Public Schools against each other, emphasizing the differences, suggesting that one must fail for the other to succeed. But more than many politicians and educators realize - or some would care to admit - the challenges of school choice are the challenges of Milwaukee Public Schools.

Some of the articles in this series will touch on what makes the voucher schools unique. But the heart of the series will address the more universal challenges of educating urban, low-income youth, including the struggle to shut down the worst schools, improve the mediocre ones, and create more of the best.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wrong, the state has allowed 15,000 students to attend religious schools. It allows for up to 15,000. There are a little over 100,000 students at MPS.

Religious schools have proven themselves the best educators in the voucher program but they can only educate 1 in 8 Milwaukee students. What is the plan for the other 7/8th's?

Leave them in the failing schools?

Let them go to the non-religious and failing voucher schools?

How do we break this up? Do we split up students based on race or religion?

The Supreme Court of the state of Wisconsin ruled on June 10th, 1998, that the expanded Milwaukee voucher program--which will allow up to 15,000 children to attend any religious or other private school--does not violate either the state or federal constitutions. A link to the complete verdict follows, but please note that due to the size of the page it may be slow to load. Complete verdict.
This verdict was appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, but on November 9, 1998, the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court announced that they had voted 8 to 1 not to hear the appeal, and thus to allow the verdict of the Wisconsin Supreme Court to stand.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3. Voucher School's seem to be safe and clean places to learn

Milwaukee voucher school dropped from program

The Department of Public Instruction dropped a Milwaukee school from the voucher program Thursday (January 27, 2005) amid safety concerns. The Academic Solutions Center for Learning, one of the city's largest voucher schools, is the third school in seven months to be ordered out of the program, which allows taxpayer money to be spent in private schools with little accountability.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that police were called to the school Monday because of student fighting. When they arrived, police discovered no teachers in the school building. The teachers were protesting the fact that they had not been paid, and without their supervision, a group of students started a fight.

During the police investigation, another fight broke out that involved more than 100 students, the newspaper reported. That fight took more than an hour to quell, and police ticketed about a dozen people for disorderly conduct.

According to the Journal Sentinel story, Monday's incident was the sixth time since late November that police were called to the school because of violence.

A new state law in place since 2004 allows DPI to drop schools from the voucher program because of safety concerns. Academic Solutions is the first school to be ordered out of the program for that reason. Two other schools, Alex's Academy of Excellence and Mandella School of Math and Science, were dropped because of financial mismanagement and violations of program regulations.

Academic Solutions has been in hot water with DPI before. In November, DPI withheld a $1.3 million voucher payment to the school because of discrepancies between the school's reported enrollment and attendance reports. School officials originally reported that they had enrolled more than 700 voucher-eligible students, but an audit later confirmed that only about 500 students were actually attending the school.

The DPI action to drop the school came on the same day the state Assembly voted to expand the voucher program by raising its enrollment cap. Enrollment in the voucher program is limited to 15% of students in the Milwaukee Public Schools system, or about 15,000. The bill passed by the Assembly raises the cap by 1,500 to 16,500. Voucher enrollment for 2004-05 is about 14,700 students.

The bill must be passed by the state Senate and signed by Governor Doyle before becoming law. The Senate is expected to vote on the proposal February 8, but the governor warned that even if the Senate passes the bill, he would veto it. He called the measure "an extreme, uncompromising stance to create a crisis that will cost Milwaukee property taxpayers $4 million and taxpayers all across the state another $4.9 million."

"For too long, Assembly Republicans have worried too much about the interests of those who want to expand the voucher program instead of working to solve the significant challenges facing all of Milwaukee's schools," Doyle said.

WEAC President Stan Johnson called on lawmakers to develop legislation to benefit all of Milwaukee's children, not just those who attend voucher schools.

"Milwaukee children deserve a great education, not experiments," Johnson said. "The cap on enrollment in the voucher program is needed because it is an experiment."

"The voucher program is unaccountable to the public, even though it receives $87 million a year in tax dollars. Voucher schools should be held to the same standards as public schools. Voucher school students should be required to take the same tests so we can see if the public is getting its money's worth."
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The point of all those article's is to prove that voucher schools would not help Detroit.

Livernoisyard, give it up with that stupid M'Waukee joke. Nobody's laughing. What the hell does that even mean?
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Hysteria
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Kathinozarks
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Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about going back to neighborhood schools?
*Busing was such a great idea, it really boosted the grades and self esteem of the students. Also, a new age of racial harmony was begun.

*sarcasm
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1943
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 3:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DPS needs an infusion of money to help educate students(of course this is a given). A "Marshall Plan," or A new "New Deal," money from the Feds, is needed to build new schools, hire more teacher's aides, buy more text books and other school supplies, and hire more teachers in order to reduce class sizes.

Many of DPS students in the neighborhood schools need more than just books. At least half have a learning disability which requires more individual teaching and teaching tools. More teacher's aides and smaller class sizes along with access to computers is needed to improve student's academic performance. They also need after school and Saturday morning tutoring. There also needs to be a return to more elective classes like art, home economics, and shop.

One of the biggest hurdles to my teaching is the fact that DPS schools are required to supply students with paper and pencils. If not for the parents that provide these supplies for their students, every student in DPS must be furnished with these items. Do you know how expensive this is to have to be required to supply every student who doesn't have supplies with supplies?
Do you know how many text books could be bought if the money wasn't being spent on supplies that you assume parents would buy for their children?

Many students become dependent on having supplies given to them that they fail to develop a sense of responsibility. Students destroy classroom text books because they know the school will just get more.

Also, one of the reasons many of my students in seventh-grade do not write in pen is because they have been conditioned to use pencil because when they needed something to write with, a pencil was all DPS could afford to give to them.

DPS needs an overhaul that requires the parents of children in Detroit to take more responsibility towards the education of their children. This comes in many forms. The first would be to provide their children with the basic supplies of paper, pens, or pencils.

The second would be to require parents to put down a deposit of say $50 to guarantee the return of text books. Currently if students lose text books or damage them, there is rarely a requirement to pay for the lost book(at least at my school).

DPS won't survive continuing to do things as they did in the past. The administrative offices have to do a better job of establishing realistic procedures. Also, more has to be required of the parents and students if things are to improve.

BTW, although the control of the school board was returned to an elected school board instead of one controlled by the mayor, the mayor should have some say in what goes on with the board. One suggestion would be to have a member of the school board be a voting proxy for the mayor. This way the mayor could at least have a say, by way of vote, in the decisions made by the school board. His proxy would also keep him informed of all that goes on with the board.

(Message edited by royce on December 03, 2006)
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1944
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One other thing about DPS. Too much politics. You'd be surprised how personal vendettas and hatreds play out in what gets done and what doesn't. Some principals get everything they want while others, if out of favor with key administrators downtown, get nothing. The same applies to the relationship between principals and teachers. Some teachers can do no wrong and get what they want while others have to get down on their knees and pray for what they want. The politics involved in DPS are deep.

(Message edited by royce on December 03, 2006)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 787
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce: We used to have a textbook deposit of 150.00 (about 10 years ago). That system didn't work because, by law, public schools are required to furnish books for students. I thought it was a great idea! I currently buy novels a few at a time to build a classroom set (that I don't lend out). I also buy Hamlet on Amazon for a dollar each and the kids all give me a dollar. If they want to write in, or otherwise keep or destroy the book, then I keep their dollar. If they want their dollar back, they give me my book back. No complaints yet.

We can't even make copies in my building. I pay for that myself and go to Kinkos. I also post it on Blackboard, and if a student loses their first copy, they can print it themselves from BB. I also buy pens and paper (out of my pocket since I don't get a classroom budget and the school doesn't buy these things) for students (I loan the pens...take their ID and give them a pen).

I agree that politics plays a huge factor in who gets what and who stays put, even though they should be rated unsat.

I'd like to see more parental involvement, more money trickle down to the classroom (oh, I don't know, instead of paying someone with an Associate's Degree an outrageous sum of money to be the CEO...) and less BS downtown.

They screwed up my pay (yet again) and sick bank (yet again) and I have yet to talk with a real person. Mailboxes are full on voicemail and my faxes go unanswered. This has been over a month and nada. Next step is to go down there (and take a sick day to do it) so that this mess can get straightened out. I wouldn't even bother if it were a small sum of money and just a few days of sick time but they screwed it up by about a thousand dollars (from 2 checks).

DPS, in general, needs a revamping from people who know what they are doing...
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 278
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The DPS should teach basic Math and English skills and also Economics.

Then the City of Detroit will have people who can run the Detroit Department of Transportation with the competence and skills essential to attract business and commerce.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 279
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The DPS should teach basic Math and English skills and also Economics.

Then the City of Detroit will have people who can run the Detroit Department of Transportation with the competence and skill essential to attract business and commerce.



(Message edited by Trainman on December 03, 2006)
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher, I am shocked that you aren't provided with the basic necessities of your job.
I pray that change will come.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 790
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Kath...after 10 years in DPS, I am not shocked. I buy my own chalk (and lots of it since they don't let me make copies). I found that making copies, at my own expense, is cheaper than buying the overhead projector sheets. I buy pocket folders in bulk to give to my kids at the beginning of the year, as well as tab folders for portfolios...to be kept in the classroom.

I also bring in chairs from home (including those not used at my dining table) so that kids will have something, except the floor, on which to sit.

Tiles on my floor are coming up and I have a huge hole in my wall that I inherited when I moved into my room. My heat works, on occasion...and when it does, it's like Hades in my room. When it doesn't, it's like the North Pole. No happy medium.

I've learned to deal with it all. When payroll screws up my checks, I do get angry since I purchase classroom materials myself. When DPS doesn't give me the raises I deserve, I do get snippy because of all I do spend on what they should be providing. No other business makes its employees purchase materials necessary to do their jobs. OK, so no one "makes" me but it's for the benefit of my kids so I just do it. It just really irks me when someone claims I am teaching and demanding more from DPS (in our contract) because I am in it for the money. It's quite obvious the majority of teachers in DPS aren't in it for the money. I would, however, like to support my family, pay my mortgage and bills, etc without having to fight for a basic cost of living increase, DPS getting my pay straight without shorting me a grand, and all the things people in the corporate world take for granted. I'm all for merit raises for teachers...but I would rather have the basic tools necessary to do my job and have them provided to me by my employer (who is the entity that gets cash from the Feds...I never see that money directly and neither does my school...it all goes to the Ivory Towers so they can pad someone's pocket with no bid contracts).

Ok, I am climbing off my soapbox.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5244
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3420 GREAT IDEAL!!!


Let us go tell that Superintendent William Coleman and The president of Detroit Federation of Teachers all this proposal in which they would NOT accept. For they said that it would take lots of money which they don't have in their pockets.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 137
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think most kids are seeing a tangible benefit to learning. Many go to school because they are told to and feel that they must get their diploma to get a job. This does not stimulate or excite them or make them eager to learn. I don't think our culture stresses the benefits of education as much as it should either, but it is hard to do that given the sorry state of the curriculum.

The answer from the academic community seems to be spending more tax dollars. We spend quite a bit per student now but that does no good if the kids are not interested. I think the curriculum in most schools is flawed and the fundamentals are being ignored in lieu of some questionable methods and subject matter being pushed by the educrats.

I don't feel the subject matter being taught in schools is relevant or helpful to becoming competitive in the working world; the kids realize this and lose interest. We should not be surprised that most kids don’t like sitting on their ass for 6 hours listening to some teacher drone on about some irrelevant crap they are going to forget the next day.

I think the only way to wake up the people who are running academia is to end the government monopoly on education. We need to be teaching tangible skills and trades and expose the kids to the different areas of work that are out there so they can get some idea as to what they want to do when they reach adulthood. There are many high-paying jobs in the skilled trades that aren’t even being discussed in school.

I think getting kids out there into co-op programs during their high school years and earning real dollars in the community would provide the tangible benefit that is lacking now and would also help keep them out of trouble. It would also stress the work ethic that so many of our young people are lacking.

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on December 04, 2006)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 791
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With the new graduation requirements, most of the electives...including Co-op and vocational training classes will be GONE. I don't agree with this at all! I think limiting kids to college prep classes is detrimental (as a blanket requirement). Not all kids will go to college and that is ok. My heating and cooling guy and plumber make more money in a year than I hope to make in 5 (I know, I pay them enough just to come and tell me something is broken).

I do stress a career exploration unit to go along with their senior portfolio (which includes transcripts, resume, references, letters of recommendation, ACT/SAT scores, job application, college apps..to any type of schooling, not just universities). They really appreciate it and most have some eye opening experiences. I also require them to job shadow someone in a field they would like to explore. It's not as difficult as it would seem to get people to let kids shadow them for a day (usually over a school break).

Overall, I agree with Gent that kids need a variety of experiences and that school is just "someplace to go" for many kids. I try to do a lot of cooperative learning in my class and my kids generally direct the lesson. I try to picque their interests and keep things interesting. Unfortunately, I don't think my methods are the rule.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 56
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So much work to be done and the teachers aren't even listened to. Why shouldn't a teacher make an above standard salary? We expect the moon and sun from them and they deliver with no help from the administration, many non-interested parents and children who have been raised with no rules, no expectations of respect from adults. Integrity is lacking on all fronts.
I trust my teacher friends who share work stories. Teaching is not something that many of us could do. Thanks Teacher
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Renfirst
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Username: Renfirst

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mother's been teaching in DPS for over 24 years and is beginning to show some signs of despair. They had a lockdown two weeks ago, the "Joy Road Gang" had some people rush into the school cafeteria in the morning with guns ... I got a call from her crying in her classroom. The school was in lockdown and she was stuck in her classroom all alone. It scared me like nothing has before.

She's decided to transfer to Southfield Public Schools. And I hear she's one of many. The teachers that have been there the longest are the ones that can't take it anymore.

I'll give you an example of the mindset many have, unfortunately. My mother was at a meeting with the principal and administration. The principal indicated that due to budget cuts they had to either lose two teachers or cancel night school. The teachers all pushed for cancelling the night school in order to keep the teachers at the school, citing how difficult it would be for them to lose their jobs. My mother and some others in the minority, opposed that point of view and fought for the students. Night school was far more important. The principal agreed, fortunately, but it was shocking to me to hear a story where the teachers were more concerned with the future of two teachers than dozens of students. Could that be a problem the district faces ? As the daughter of a DPS teacher I'll be the first to admit that there are teachers that should not be teaching in that district.

Some of the best and brightest are leaving. You have to have quality teachers if you want a quality school district. Of course they deserve better pay, that will help immensely in getting real talent in those classrooms, but something has to be done in the meantime.
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny,thanks for the compliment. My goal is to form an Academic Action Committee that can give recommendations as well as push for an agenda on the ideas of teachers and parents for academic success in Detroit. There are two things I look forward too doing and that is important and that is helping Detroit get back on track and opening a business.

We are the citizens and we need to come out and push the city government and school system to do much better than what we are seeing. I'm tired of hearing that same ole BS about its cost to do this and that. Voicing your opinion is free and thats what I intend to do. I vote and I elect people who need to do there job. Detroit kids deserve better and its people like us who care who needs to carry these ideas over to these school board meetings.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 794
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 6:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been through a few of those lockdown situations and it isn't nice. I am still young enough to dream that I can help some kids where help is needed most so I am sticking with DPS. Check back with me in 10 years and see where I am then...things may change.

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