 
Tponetom
Member
Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 238
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:06 pm: |    |
Ray1936,
A little satire, tongue in cheek, word invention (tagly?)
Also, demonology sometimes contains a modicum of fact or truth.
I, being a plumber and you using the term, "butcher." prompts this reply, to which I am
adding, “carpenter.” an absolutely true story.
I think the subject matter deserves its own thread because there must be many others who have
endured the terror of the Dentist.
I never play the game of "one-upsmanship." But I have to at least, parallel your post (#2779)
about your Dentist.. Let us just say that my Dentist was every bit as capable of inflicting pain as
your Dentist was.
To wit, the following stage:
1940. A 12 year old kid. The northwest corner of E. Forest and Cadillac.
The drugstore on that corner was next to the Rivola Theater. The second floor of the building
was the inner sanctum of the nefarious and maniacal Dr. Carpenter Devereaux. I am sure the
rooms of his office were sound proof to negate the piteous, inhuman, blood curdling, gurgling of
his patients. (Gurgling works here. Think of blood trickling down ones throat)
I had five "second" teeth extracted and 12 fillings over the period of a few weeks.
The very first appointment set the ground rules for future encounters. PAIN! In capital letters.
One of my lower teeth had a cavity on the side of the tooth. One end of his forceps had to
nestle in that cavity to give some traction for the extraction. (A little play on words there.) Talk
about a world of hurt!
But anyway, he wiggled and jiggled and the tooth began its separation from my jaw bone.
The pain was too exquisite to describe. As Dr. Carpenter pulled upward, the tip of the forceps
grazed the side of my nose. Another three inches and the top of the tooth was level with my
eyeball. He continued pulling for another fifteen or twenty minutes. Finally it broke the “surly
bonds” of flesh, bone, blood and tagly roots. In my memory, perhaps flawed a bit, that tooth
measured at least eighteen inches long and it had inverted barbed rails on its sides that prevented
any upward movement of the tooth.
I had another 8 appointments for extractions and fillings. The die was cast.
On my next appointment, I discovered an even worst terror. That would be, ‘sitting in the
waiting room’ letting my imagination go crazy. My greatest fear was that I would wet my pants
when Dr. D. installed the Novocain needle. Well, that never happened. It was never in the realm
of possibilities. Because,,,,,,while sitting there waiting, the sweat poured out of my body in such
volumes, that my chair began to float. Absolute dehydration! Perhaps that is when my present
prostate problems began. Hmm, that might be a bit of a stretch.
Eight years later, when I was 20, I had to go back to good ole Carpenter for some minor
repairs and it wasn’t so bad. It was just the same old, same old.!
Dr. Devereaux was a good dentist and a good man. The tools and methods of
painlessness were still a few years away. Dr. Devereaux charged two dollars for an extraction and
three for a filling. My image of him softens a little, when I compare prices of today
Now here is a story about another Dentist: •••• Circa 1960. Dr. Christopher Smith. What
a Prince! To this very day, I am sure the “Tooth Fairy” was our ‘matchmaker’ with Dr. C.
We were living on Evanston at the time. Peggy and I both had to have some more dental
work done. We scanned the Yellow Pages for a Dentist and found a fellow named Smith.
We both had dental insurance through my plumbers union, a maximum of 600 dollars
each. In 1960 that bought a lot of work.
We made appointments with Dr. Smith, located on Kelly Road. He shared an office with
another Dentist. They shared a receptionist and she would always assist either Dentist when they
needed help of any sort. It was a three person office with two very separate operations..
To feel him out a little, we each had one minor filling attended to. He charged us 7 dollars
for each filling. I thought to myself, “well, this guy cannot be all bad.” His treatment was
excellent and completely painless.
With patients waiting in the ante room, I thought he would shoo us out of there as fast as
he could. No way! He told us his fellow tenant, a much younger Dentist, was charging 16 to 20
dollars per surface filling. He could not understand how some dentists got away with the
exorbitant rates they were charging, That observation bewildered me. Chris Smith was in his
middle fifties. An extremely handsome and socially engaging person.
So we left, after making another appointment for some more work. Remember, I was
missing five of my ‘second’ teeth.
On our second visit his socializing became more comfortable. Again, his technical work
was flawless. His prices were minimal.
On our third visit I had to smile to myself. Dr. S. liked both of us. Well, maybe he liked
Peggy more than he liked me. No, not in a lewd or lascivious manner but truly in a friendly
manner. He was a very intriguing personality.
He had a large painting on the wall, (facing the patient,) of a sail boat. A 50 footer!
Digression: Sailing and sail boats have always been an obsession with me. It has always
been my ‘ impossible dream!’ (ethereal like in a dream world ) I never cared for ‘stink’ boats.
I remarked on the beauty of it. I asked him how he obtained the painting. He replied that
he had commissioned an artist to paint it. It was HIS boat.! My first thought was, WHOAAA!
How on earth could this Dentist, charging me 7 bucks for a filling and then spend a half
hour or so with us, just talking, own a boat that looked to be to be in the high, 6 figure
neighborhood of finance!
O.K. Here are the punch lines. His wife was a very wealthy person in her own right.
Like maybe in the millions? And Dr. Smith thoroughly enjoyed doing dental work like other
people who had different hobbies of a sort and he practiced his trade on his own terms.
More incredibly, he did his own laboratory work instead of farming it out. He liked doing
it.
On our fourth visit, he suggested to do something about the five missing teeth that I had
been living without for twenty years.
As of this writing, as I sit here and type this story, I have a permanent, 4 tooth, gold
bridge on the lower right hand side of my mouth, a permanent, 3 tooth, gold bridge on the lower
left side, a single gold cap on my upper right hand side, a single gold cap on my upper left hand
side. Then, for good measure, I have a ‘saddled’ tooth that carries a prosthesis that fills in an
empty space.
It was with great intrepidity that I asked how much it would cost. He brushed aside my
inquiry and told me not to worry about it..
About ten appointments later and many hours of impressions, grinding, smoothing and
fittings, I had a new mouth.
On the day of financial reckoning, I went to his office with checkbook, some cash and my
insurance papers. To be on the safe side, I drew up a contract limiting the term of any ‘indentured
servant” services. I thought he might want to hold Peggy and our two children, hostage.
When I asked him about his fee, he asked me if I knew how much the gold in my mouth
was worth!. To be funny, I said, “Oh, about two bucks a tooth!”
He replied, “Your close. Try three bucks a tooth.”
The entire bill came to 325.00. My insurance easily covered that.
In 1960 the price of gold was but a morsel of what it is today. And having a dentist like
Dr. Smith is having the ‘mother lode’ of practitioners.
Since that era, we have had two excellent, technical dentists.
Our present one here in Tucson, wants to redo the four tooth bridge,,,,,,,,,for $ 3200.00.
Oh, for the charm and charisma of Dr. Smith. |
Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:20 pm: | |
That whole thing makes no sense. Is it supposed to be stream of conciousness? Joycian or William Carlos Williams, speaking of dentists. |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2782
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:33 pm: | |
Tp, the first half of your post has me rolling on the floor. You've described my childhood to a "T"! Now, I don't recall what "my" Dr. Siegel charged, but I do remember he lived in Grosse Pointe somewhere, so I suspect he had an adequate income.
On the second half, you found a gem there. My adult dental work always cost me enough to make me grimace, but what had to be done had to be done. We have, what, 32 adult teeth? I have....let's see...1...2....3....uh....18 left. Fortunately, they're all in the front. Never lost my smile.
Back about 1968 the DPD staged a "blue flu" walkout. The peer pressure was tremendous. It really put a wedge between me and the loyalty I had for the job back then. So to be straight up with both sides, I went to my friendly oral surgeon and had two wisdom teeth that had been bothering me for years extracted. Then to the Department Physician's office where I was justifiably marked "sick" by the Department.
Glad to have triggered your 'rememories' of the dentist, Tp....I hope I didn't shake out any rememories of terror too badly. |
Tponetom
Member
Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 239
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 8:15 pm: | |
Ray1936,
I was reasonably sure that you would respond to my post. Thank you. Our peers, meaning yours and mine, understand where you and I are coming from in our youthful experiences. We can look back and revile, and at the same time revel, in our experiences.
In the same breath, I am so pleased that some of the younger members of this Forum have expressed their understanding of our attitudes and philosophies and experiences, just as we understand their attitudes about the present world. We know that we are 'dated,' "old fashioned" if you will, but we are still relevant in many respects.
I just had a thought! If you live in Las Vegas, I wonder if you ever knew Sgt. Jerry Andrews of the DPD.? Jerry is living in Vegas. His brother, Sgt. Russ Andrews was my brother in law who died two years ago. In an earlier post I had mentioned the names of Quaid and Bertone and Kennedy as being handball players with me .
Bruce (Danny) Kennedy and I broke in at the same time. |
Jams
Member
Username: Jams
Post Number: 7701
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 9:03 pm: | |
Tponetom and Ray1936,
As I approach being not-as-young-as-I-feel, I've come to a greater appreciation of
the "rememories" you share with us.
To some the experience of feeding an apple to a milk-wagon-horse on a street in Detroit as I did,, is ancient history, but it is still a vibrant memory to me. What you offer freely is a glimpse of a time when anything was possible in this City we love. |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2783
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 9:33 pm: | |
Thanks, Jams. No, Tp, I don't know Jerry Andrews. We have a retired DPD club here in Las Vegas, the "Nevada Jackpots", but he's not a member. Pity, we could use some fresh blood. We meet once every other month at the Four Queens.
Yup, Quaid and Bertoni I knew, and Kennedy I knew of. Top notch.
I also belong to the RDPFFA, Retired Detroit Police and Fire Fighters Association. Their monthly newsletter keeps us old farts up to date with arbitration matters and pension benefits. My pension check seems to get smaller and smaller through the year as the city increases the deductions for health insurance all the time. Kind of like everyone else, I guess.
Hey, Jams.....ever steal a hunk of ice from the back of the ice truck? |
Tponetom
Member
Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 241
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 9:34 pm: | |
Jams: You brought a big smile to my face reminding me when we too, tried to feed 'anyhing' to those horses that were a constant fixture of our daily lives. The milk man, the sheeney man, the mounted police and in the middle thirties, the iceman.
P. S. You will get over that, "not as young as I feel" attitude when you realize that there is an extreme satisfaction that comes from the realization that you are ascending to an elevation in life that lets you look back and say, "Hey, I did the best I could with what I had at that time in my life." Especially, things like feeding an an apple to a horse.
I would just love to hear the clop, clop, of a horse walking down the street. It would ignite a crescendo of good memories. |
Jams
Member
Username: Jams
Post Number: 7702
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 10:26 pm: | |
Thank you for those sentiments.
You've brought a tear to my eye and a smile to my face.
Tponetom, I dedicate my next taste of Jamesons to you, I, a descendent of an orphan who left Scotland for a new beginning in Canada, have also developed a taste for that "tears of the angels".
(Message edited by jams on February 26, 2008) |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2785
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 11:31 pm: | |
"Hey, I did the best I could with what I had at that time in my life."
That's the truth. I wouldn't change a heck of a lot of what I did the last 70 years. Oh, I might dabble into the IPO of Microsoft 35 years ago or so, but that's hindsight........ |
Jams
Member
Username: Jams
Post Number: 7703
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 11:41 pm: | |
quote: would just love to hear the clop, clop, of a horse walking down the street. It would ignite a crescendo of good memories.
I agree, just to feed an apple or a carrot to Tony again ,would be a treat beyond pure happiness. |
Redvetred
Member
Username: Redvetred
Post Number: 176
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 7:04 am: | |
Thanks to all for some good memories except the dentist. I almost couldn't finish reading that portion - the terror.
The "clop, clop of a horse walking down the street" brought back the memory of the Brown's Creamery milkman in Ferndale. I remember getting free chunks of ice which was so clear and wet. People find it hard to believe there was still milk delivery via a horse-drawn wagon with a milkman in the late 1950s. |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2788
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:12 pm: | |
As I recall, Twin Pines and Sealtest were the two biggest home-delivery milk trucks in the fifties. Any one recall any other brand names? |
Jams
Member
Username: Jams
Post Number: 7708
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:46 pm: | |
Wayne Creamery, on Waterman serviced our SW Detroit neighborhood.
I paid waay too much for one of those bottles on ebay a few years ago, but it was worth the price to me reminding me of Tony and my youth.
Surprisingly, Calder's Dairy (owned by the family of a HS classmate of mine and her sister who was my partner on the debate team) still offers home delivery in Downriver.
I recently noticed a job posting from them for a delivery driver, it brought a smile to my face remembering a world before supermarkets. |
Tponetom
Member
Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 242
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 1:49 pm: | |
Jams:
Re: your post, # 7702.
"Tears of an Angel" (That goes in my memory bank.)
Now you have sparkled the waters with your mention of Jameson Whiskey.
I was perfectly content this morning after scanning our local Walgreen's Drug Store circular.
It features a 1.75 Liter of 'House of Stuart Scotch'for $ 10.99. Granted, it is a pedestrian Scotch, but I have a valid reason for drinking it.
Lately I have suffered from leg cramps while in bed. My Dr. prescribed "Tonic Water' as a curative because of the Quinine contained therein.
Now drinking 3 - 8 ounce glasses of Tonic Water a day, can paralyze your vocal cords, so I cut it with cheap scotch. It helps.
I also use Embassy Gin with Tonic because the incredible bad taste of either, tends to neutralize the taste buds. Embassy usually goes on sale every other week, for $ 8.99 for a 1.75 liter. That is the only way they can sell it. I am waiting for a "buy one, get one free" sale.
Liquor is cheeeeep in AZ. |
Eriedearie
Member
Username: Eriedearie
Post Number: 885
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 1:51 pm: | |
Tp and Ray: Wow those are some dental rememories you guys have there! BTW just yesterday I had three crowns, lined with gold fitted in place. That was to the tune of $2,706.00 - thank God my husband has wonderful dental coverage. Our final cost $53.78. I joked with the receptionist that I interviewed my husband well before marriage, just to make sure he had good benefits - that sealed the deal! LOL
And Ray as for another home delivery milk service I remember on the East side of Detroit we had a Bordon's Milk Man. Mom would leave the empty bottles out on the porch and if she wanted anything else, cottage cheese, buttermilk, etc. she would leave him a note. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 5333
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 2:57 pm: | |
I had to stop reading here:
quote:One end of his forceps had to
nestle in that cavity to give some traction for the extraction.
YEEAAARGH |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2791
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 3:42 pm: | |
Oh, sure...Borden's. Elsie the cow. How could I forget that one?  |
Eriedearie
Member
Username: Eriedearie
Post Number: 888
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 6:03 pm: | |
Do you remember the cow head sign - I think it was on I 94 & I wanna say Springwells or there abouts? After being laid off numerous times from the car factories, my dad got a job with the sign company. I think it was called Eller Sign Company at that time. Anyway, my dad and his crew were the ones that erected that cow head! I'll have to ask my dad to clear that location up for me. He would take us for drive-bys to see the more unusual bill boards that they would erect and Elsie the Cow was one of the more memorable ones.
Edited - maybe I 75 and Springwells? I can't remember - senior moment here!
(Message edited by eriedearie on February 26, 2008) |
Ookpik
Member
Username: Ookpik
Post Number: 382
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 6:39 pm: | |
Grandpa Ookpik - Twin Pines Milkman - Detroit, Michigan - 1940's - 1950's.
The "Son" listed on the truck is my Dad.
Ookpik |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 4653
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 6:58 pm: | |
Eriedearie, is this your cow head?:
Click it to go to Roadside America. Search for cow in Michigan.
quote:Detroit, Michigan - Giant Cow Head
Checking out a bit of the inner city... While driving along Mack, I came across this enormous cow head. It was sitting on top of a closed ice cream stand. My friend told me it was used in the movie 8 Mile and that in one scene Eminem shoots it with a paintball gun. This could account why cow head has a decent and fairly recent paint job when the neighborhood around it is crumbling. This is not the best neighborhood to go "roadsiding" in, but it does show that no matter where you are, there are treasures to be found. [Richard Weiss, 09/04/2005]
Giant Cow Head:
Address: Mack Ave., Detroit, MI |
Eriedearie
Member
Username: Eriedearie
Post Number: 892
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 7:11 pm: | |
Jimaz - nope - that's not the cow head. The one I'm remembering was Elsie the Cow from Bordon's Milk Company. |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 4654
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 7:43 pm: | |
Ah! I tried.
Too many cow heads in this town. |
Tponetom
Member
Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 243
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 7:46 pm: | |
OOkpic:
Your picture is right on. "Jack" (I cannot recall his last name) had two "Twin Pines Dairy" routes, when I had my gas station on East Nine Mile Road. I let him park his two trucks on my property in exchange for his gas and oil purchases. He told me that each of his two routes was worth between 12 and 15 thousand dollars if someone wanted to buy one. Back in the forties and early fifties, milk routes were a profitable business. Shortly there after, the Johnson Milk Depots killed the milk route business. |
Caldogven
Member
Username: Caldogven
Post Number: 160
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 2:47 pm: | |
Tponetom:
Thanks a lot!! (just kidding)
I thought I had permanently blotted out the memories of my experience with the dentist on Forest. I was to him several times in the late forties. We lived up the alley at the other end of Pennsylvania. |
Tponetom
Member
Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 246
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 3:49 pm: | |
Cal:
2 "High Speed" gas stations on the corner of Pennsylvania and Warren that morphed into 2 "Pure Gas Stations"
Johnson's Milk Depot, same corner
Angelo's Grocery Store on Cooper and Warren.
My pal was working there for 2 dollars a week and he was the one who discovered Angelo, dead on the floor in the basement. Heart Attack or whatever. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 4021
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 4:13 pm: | |
Ookpik, what happened to the Divco truck in the picture? What a great hot rod it would make! |
Ookpik
Member
Username: Ookpik
Post Number: 385
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 8:15 pm: | |
Fury13,
When my Grandpa sold his Twin Pines route, the truck went with it. A route consisted of a truck and a route book. The route book contained the addresses of your customers. As indicated on the truck, each route was "Employee Owned." I would like to have a Divco truck myself!
Ookpik |
Tponetom
Member
Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 296
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 7:09 pm: | |
Recently, I said I could not post any more stories, and I cannot.
However, I offer the following as a Public Service:
All of a sudden, the original post of mine has taken an ugly turn. Near the end of that post I made mention of a 'saddle tooth' that Dr. Smith installed in my mouth in 1960. Well, two weeks ago the parent tooth broke off at the gum line.
My dentist, here in Tucson, made the appropriate hmm's and hum's and then informed me that he could fill the two vacant spaces. He would make a four tooth bridge, using the two adjacent teeth as anchors, with two prostheses in the middle. The cost would be four thousand dollars which equates (or is it equakes, like in earthquakes) to one thousand dollars a tooth. I forgot to ask him how much the extraction of the broken tooth would cost. (Also, he likes to clean your teeth before doing any work. That would be an extra hundred or so.)
I did ask him how much he would give me on a trade-in for the gold saddle that broke off. I still have it.
I am advising Forum Members who may be anticipating some dental work, to ask their dental provider if he/she will give you a 50 year warranty on his/her work. Seems fair to me.
Do the math, in my case! |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3044
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 7:22 pm: | |
Ouch. Not much I hate more than dental problems, Tp.
I often wonder about some of these prices demanded for certain dental work. The trade-in on the gold saddle should equate to a discount of some kind, I would think, with gold near 1k per ounce.
So.....are you going for it? |
Living_in_the_d
Member
Username: Living_in_the_d
Post Number: 200
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 8:35 pm: | |
Yeah, I have not had a decent dentist, Since Dr. Bloch, retired and moved back to Switzerland. Painful dentist, But the work lasted. Any suggestions for a good dentist Within the city limits? |
Grumpyoldlady
Member
Username: Grumpyoldlady
Post Number: 159
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 6:23 pm: | |
Don't know if he's still downtown, but I used to go to Dr. Post, who was on Larned. Very nice and used nitrous oxide which made the experience much less stressful. |
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