  Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4246 Registered: 10-2003 |
I figured there is a lot of intelligence on this board so I need some advice about a class situation. Right now I am completing this ultra-difficult cataloging class and it is considered one of the toughest courses in the program. The class total grade is based on 200 points and you need a 170 for a B. I was in a group with 4 other students. 3 people in the group pulled their weight, while the two others barely showed up to class and never emailed or met with the group. I was projected to get about a 179 or so…not great but not bad. That is, until we got nailed on our final group project. The term project was worth 80 points and we got a 64.2 on it. I got .1 wrong on my end, but the other two had a combined 13.3 wrong on their side. Now I am down to about a 168….2 points under a 170. Basically, we each had to catalog two books and then pool them together to make 10 at the end. I did everything on my end to try and meet and work with the slackers but it didnt work. Has anyone ever been in a situation like this with their grade in a course? How did the professor handle it? I mean, it is only two points off and I don’t think she curves. Any words of wisdom? | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1047 Registered: 11-2003 |
Generally, you would express your concerns about the lack of teamwork to the professor before receiving your grade... otherwise it looks like sour grapes. So, time is of the essence before receiving your final grade. Offer to do extra credit work and dont blame the slackers 100%, because you'll encounter the same thing in the real world and the professor may point this out and blame you for not being able to generate energy in your own team. | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 342 Registered: 08-2006 |
I think E_Det's on the mark here. What I would add is that managing the collaborative project was part of your assignment--whether that was made explicit or not. Have you spoken to the prof about how you might better have handled that part? E.g., what if everyone on the team had cataloged 4 books, ensuring that each book was covered twice, and the group could have drawn from the strengths of each attempt in composing the final version? | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1014 Registered: 06-2006 |
When I am in group work situations, I always make sure I see the final project at the end and then fix whatever is wrong with it (even if that means doing the extra work needed to pick up for the slackers). If it's MY grade on the line, I'll do whatever it takes and then let the instructor know about the slackers. I'd go and talk to the prof. and explain the situation. You should, however, have made sure the assignment was complete regardless of anyone else's participation. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1209 Registered: 04-2006 |
I'd have to agree with above. You're always going to run into folks who don't work very hard. It is a group assignment, with a group grade. It is the responsibility of each member of the group to get as high of a mark as possible. If two don't want to work as hard, the other three have to step up. Grades are not about fairness. They are about being able to complete work competently. If the majority of the group could not apply enough pressure on those who slacked to actually do the work, and did not do anything above their 1/5th, then you deserve the grade that you received. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1107 Registered: 10-2003 |
i had that happen to me back in my school days. we had a group project where one person didn't lift a finger and it affected the final product. when talking to the professor about it, he pretty much sed "that's too bad" and that was the end of it. [rsa tried to avoid group projects at all costs.] unfortunately, these types of things tend to be the "life's not fair" type of thing. however, i would still encourage you to talk to your prof about it. he/she might take it into consideration. at the very least, it should preserve your reputation if you ever take him/her again. | ||
Soulsauce Member Username: Soulsauce Post Number: 203 Registered: 05-2004 |
Just out of curiosity, what program/major are you? I took a cataloging class, but it was for the MLIS degree. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4247 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here is the thing...we tried emailing her and contacting her but she was barely in class. We could only do the project outside of class since no group time was permitted during. I made every effort to work with her and communicate but she was sort of the mystery member. When we did make contact she would claim that everything was going smooth on her end. The professor did say that she has one incident like this every semester and that she would think things over. Seriously, I am about one point shy of a B grade. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4248 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yep, it is in the MLIS program | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1937 Registered: 12-2005 |
Yes, this has happened to me too. My perfect GPA was at risk because of it. In the end I had to do the whole group project myself. We all received an A on the project. Instead of feeling bitter about the experience, I felt pity for the slackers. I truly hope their lives turned out okay. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1565 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is kinda the point of group work in college. Everywhere you go in the work place you are going to run into people who don't pull their weight. You're going to have to learn to work with them sooner or later. It is unfortunate when it affects your grade but out in the real world it can sometimes affect your production as well. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4249 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am whining a bit but wouldnt you expect more from adults? | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2555 Registered: 10-2003 |
No, Welcome to the real world. Life's not fair and people don't always do what you think they should. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1567 Registered: 11-2003 |
You could expect more but that will only end up screwing you in the long run. You will be shocked by some of the incompetent boobs you will end up working with in the future. How some of these people get jobs is beyond me. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1048 Registered: 11-2003 |
Some of the most useful things you learn in school are not in the textbooks. | ||
Soulsauce Member Username: Soulsauce Post Number: 204 Registered: 05-2004 |
Making you do class projects is meant to teach you business/life lessons. Often times, you will be forced to work as a team in real life settings and many times you will have to pull more than your fair share. I remember groaning over many group projects in the MLIS program (just graduated last year)and part of the purpose is to see how well you work in a group setting, how well you assign tasks and manage them to completion. This sux because many people make a bee line the first day of class to the overachievers just so they won't have to do much. We had one such person in my Intro class. I hope your prof will give you some consideration, especially since you need a "B" for it to be considered a passing grade in grad school. When I took cataloguing, Dr. Neavill taught it. There was no group project and I found him to be very thorough and knowledgable. He's one of my favorite Professors in the department at WSU. (I don't know if you go there...I'm just assuming since U of M doesn't offer the degree.) (Message edited by soulsauce on April 20, 2007) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2047 Registered: 06-2004 |
U-M has an MSI specializing in LIS, it's just not called an MLIS | ||
Soulsauce Member Username: Soulsauce Post Number: 205 Registered: 05-2004 |
I know that WSU and U-M are the only Michigan schools that offer Library Science degrees, but I ruled out U-M since he specifically said he is in a MLIS program. I've yet to meet anyone to discuss how the programs compare. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4251 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am at Wayne, but I have Dr. Evans. Neavill also teaches a rare book course which i hear is amazing. | ||
Soulsauce Member Username: Soulsauce Post Number: 206 Registered: 05-2004 |
Patrick, the History of Books class is really good. I highly recommend it, but not so much if you don't want to be responsible for a substantial paper at the end of the semester. I recommend taking it with a "lighter" course. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4252 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's the same thing I have heard from others but a term paper doesnt bother me at all. If I can do very well in Field's course, I think I can handle him. What amazes me is how people wait until their last semester to take core courses. shoot me a line at derm81@sbcglobal.net | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2062 Registered: 06-2004 |
Soulsauce, are you using your degree? Did you have to relocate? Patrick, do you have a line on a job once you graduate? I've been thinking of research librarian or archivist, but those I talk to around here said the field is flooded in this area & relocation would be required (I want to at least stay near the Great Lakes). | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4261 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not yet, since it is rather far off, but I am looking at internships and practicums. Either way I will probably leave the state. | ||
Soulsauce Member Username: Soulsauce Post Number: 207 Registered: 05-2004 |
HI Lilpup, No, I'm still in Detroit, and I'm not using my degree right now except to do some freelance research/web work here and there. I haven't ruled out going to full time librarian at some point in the future (when I can better weather a pay cut.) I had been looking into law librarianship, but was told that for the amount of school and skill required I could do much better financially for myself. *sigh* You'd think in this information age, library and information science would be booming and it probably would be if someone came up with a savvy way to market the field. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4262 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am looking at research areas rather than librarianship. There is a lot one can do with the degree....just not so much here in Michigan. | ||
Lakesuperior Member Username: Lakesuperior Post Number: 182 Registered: 06-2005 |
wow, so many librarians on detroityes! i got my mlis at wayne in 2004. i've been working in research for nonprofits in detroit ever since, with some grant writing sprinkled in of course. it's worked out surprisingly well for me... a lot of librarians become development researchers too- check out the association of professional researchers for advancement website for job postings. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2063 Registered: 06-2004 |
IMHO librarians are information junkies and the internet provides an easy access anywhere-you-want it fix but not quite the mellow buzz as from exploring history's attics and archives | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2064 Registered: 06-2004 |
Looking at Wayne's various specialization options - they have so many! What did you guys choose and how did you decide? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4290 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have not decided which area I’d like to focus on, but I do need to submit my plan of work to my advisor soon. I know so many with MLIS degrees that don’t even work in libraries. There is a strong demand, just not in Michigan. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1057 Registered: 11-2003 |
Maybe you should move now... or pay out of state tuition fees? Just to be fair. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2077 Registered: 06-2004 |
Just to be fair? When taxes are being paid here tuition should be the in-state rate. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1058 Registered: 11-2003 |
OUR taxes. One individual's taxes dont cover his/her education expenses above the tuition that they pay. The State subsidizes the State universities for in-state residents as an investment in the State of Michigan. If you're planning to leave, then just pay out-of-state tuition fees to avoid the guilt you should feel. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4294 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't feel guilty at all for wanting to leave nor do the thousands of other grads that will be leaving shortly. If there is no work, why should we stick around? Please answer. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 431 Registered: 11-2006 |
you are raping the State. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4298 Registered: 10-2003 |
Im raping the state? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2078 Registered: 06-2004 |
Perhaps the state universities need to be restricted to awarding only those degrees that are in demand in the state? Would that make more sense to some of you? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4299 Registered: 10-2003 |
That is a stupid idea because the only degrees in demand are nursing and some engineering. They'd all go broke because many students would simply leave and the schools would lose valuable funding. Did you see the article the other day about grads leaving the state? http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070430/NEWS0 1/704300330/1001/news Poll: 33% of grads to stay in Mich. Many undergrads expect to leave state for work Associated Press DETROIT - Two-thirds of undergraduates interviewed at the University of Michigan, Michigan State and Wayne State universities said that they plan to leave the state after graduation or are unsure sure what they will do, according to a new poll. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4300 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070501/OPINI ON01/705010311/1086/opinion "I can't place a teacher in Michigan; there are no jobs," Simon noted in response to questions about a Michigan brain drain. Simon sees a simple equation: No jobs, graduates leave - "and our experience is that Chicago is the hottest market for our kids right now." | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2004 |
The fact that other people are leaving doesn't change the fact that public university education is subsidized. Michigan gets shortchanged when its university graduates leave the state. It's not that hard to understand. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4303 Registered: 10-2003 |
Michigan shot itself in the foot by not diversifying years ago. Now it has nothing to show for it…..not that hard to understand. Take your argument to the campus of Wayne State or U of M and you’ll get laughed at. Bumble, what are you personally going to do about me and thousands of others leaving the state? You’re not going to do shit. | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2004 |
In your case, Patrick, I say good riddance. Michigan doesn't need any more people who can't figure out how to make a group project work. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4306 Registered: 10-2003 |
I’m sorry…please disregard my childish comments. I overreacted a bit. It is just rather painful to see the state in such a sad mess. And no, I won’t be proud if I have to leave. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1060 Registered: 11-2003 |
Why arent you leaving now? Why waiting until we help pay more for your degree? Why not just fairly pay out-of-State tuition as you plan to move? Anything else just seems selfish. | ||
Winstin_o_boogie_iii Member Username: Winstin_o_boogie_iii Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2007 |
Patrick? You referred to "Fields" above as "him". Its Field. I had HER. Suck it up and move on. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 444 Registered: 11-2006 |
uhhh, no shit sherlock is your response to suck it up and move on? YOU are the one that came in here crying because nobody would help you with your little project | ||
Winstin_o_boogie_iii Member Username: Winstin_o_boogie_iii Post Number: 34 Registered: 02-2007 |
I think the message here should be that in life we get grouped together with people with various skills and we have to find a way to make things work. Often we carry the load, often its others. If we are wise, we learn a lesson we can apply to our benefit later in life. Patrick? Don't let this episode deter you from your goals. |
