  Dannaroo Member Username: Dannaroo Post Number: 55 Registered: 05-2006 |
Next Friday is "National Ride Your Bike to Work Day" and there are a couple of routes to the CBD being sponsored by DetroitSynergy.Org. I will be riding to work in the northern burbs (Troy to Waterford) and was just wondering if anybody else out there was planning to ride on that day (from anywhere to anywhere) as well. | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 97 Registered: 08-2006 |
I work in Manhattan and ride my bike to work from my place in Queens or my girls's place in BK, 2 to 3 days a week. There are 70 people in our office and each day the weather is decent we get 15 to 20 people who ride their bikes to work. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1639 Registered: 05-2005 |
since riding my bike to warren from midtown detroit is not my idea of a good time, i'm probably going to pass. good idea though | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1636 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Ride Your Bike To Work Day"? In Detroit? Oh, come on. We should have "Floor Your Accelerator In Your SUV Day" here. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9146 Registered: 12-2003 |
It is going to be tough riding my non-suspended Cannondale hybrid down the stairs here...the damn commute BACK to my bed will be worse, no room to build up momentum. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 220 Registered: 11-2006 |
If I have a job by then I will be sure to ride my bike to it. Love the idea. | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 723 Registered: 02-2004 |
If not for the extreme threat of getting run over going down Woodward I'd be all for it. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 300 Registered: 10-2003 |
Detroit is primed to be one of the world's great bike cities. Not a lot of traffic. Flat (mostly paved and filled) roads. Things just a little out of reach. Global warming will make the winters a little less nippy...that's what I'm talking about! | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 628 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hurray for global warming!!!! | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1108 Registered: 09-2004 |
Folks, the organizer of this event could really use some help on the day of the events. Most of the assistance would be early in the morning. If you would like to help out, or find out more about the event please show up to the DSG general meeting today (6:30 in the Vault of the Guardian). If you can't make the meeting please contact the organizer at detroitbikes@detroitsynergy.or g | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2762 Registered: 02-2005 |
If I had my bike I'd ride it, but I guess I'll just keeping walking the same six Ann Arbor blocks I walk every day. I agree that Detroit has potential to be a great bike city, and the central/core areas already are. Downtown/midtown have enough non-busy streets to make it happen. But it's hard to bike from, say, Palmer Woods/Rosedale to New Center/downtown, or GP to downtown, etc., because you either take the thoroughfares where the speed limit is basically unenforced, and risk your life, or you have to take sidestreets that might pass through undesirable neighborhoods. | ||
Irvine_laird Member Username: Irvine_laird Post Number: 40 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'm taking the train to Chicago the night before the event, but it's a worthy idea. The DIA and Detroit Historical Museum will hand out food, drinks, and free stuff at the corner of Woodward and Kirby between 7:30 am and 8:00 am. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1668 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: That's the best part. Go against the grain, my friend. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1669 Registered: 11-2003 |
There's also an eastside Kercheval/Jefferson ride on Monday the 14th, I'm not sure why it wasn't listed with the others on the main detroitsynergy page. Here's some info about it: http://www.detroitsynergy.org/ projects/detroitbikes/folder.2 007-04-26.0153150024/folder.20 07-05-05.5396462599/news_item. 2007-05-05.1716793299 I will try to join up near Indian Village, but then I'll have to continue on to Dearborn... | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 203 Registered: 06-2005 |
From my perspective, Detroit already is one of America's top urban biking cities. I think the missing minor pieces are bike lanes on our state trunk lines (e.g. Grand River, Gratiot, Woodward, and Michigan Ave); racks on DDOT buses; roll-on train access; and improved safety in perhaps a handful of neighborhoods. Hopefully this year's ride to work day will be a little drier. I'll be on the Royal Oak ride. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 342 Registered: 12-2006 |
Detroit, and southeast Michigan generally, has done nothing to make it possible to bicycle to work or to anyplace else. It is possible, and I would argue desirable, to build bike lanes into the urban street configuration generally, but Michigan lags behind other states in efforts to do so. It is a brave person indeed who tries to navigate southeast Michigan's environment on a bicycle. Yet another situation where we could be leaders, but we lack the political will. This doesn't take money, just guts, but we haven't even that. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1110 Registered: 09-2004 |
Bullshit. It's YOU that doesn't have guts. It may not seem like much, but the folks that ride this coming week are making a statement. It may not be big, but it's important. | ||
Ltdave Member Username: Ltdave Post Number: 54 Registered: 09-2006 |
sure. ill leave for work sunday morning about 7am. i work midnights (1030 start on sunday) and then sleep at work all week. 115 miles round trip is just a bit too much for me to do to 'make a statement'... david | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 82 Registered: 01-2007 |
I'll peddle some ass before I peddle my ass 55 miles from Waterford to Okemos. The opium poppies must be blooming in Lansing again. James | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 349 Registered: 12-2006 |
Sharmaal, The state could make a statement that it's important to give people choices as to how to move themselves around, such as bicycling. The city could also make that statement, since the state lacks leadership; but neither does so. Chicago, Portland, Toronto and many other cities and urban regions have developed bicycle-friendly infrastructure to make it more pleasant and less dangerous for bicyclists. Detroit has done nothing, and that's a fact. Call me gutless all day long; your name-calling doesn't change facts. Detroit will never thrive so long as people use their energy to disparage those who speak facts instead of using their energy to change those facts. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1244 Registered: 04-2006 |
SEMCOG developed the following maps that can be used to provide the bicyclist with information about selecting routes that are most conducive to bike travel. http://www.semcog.org/TranPlan /NonMotorized/Maps.htm (Message edited by detroitplanner on May 14, 2007) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 352 Registered: 12-2006 |
Detroitplanner, Thanks, and that's a good start, but we're still behind other regions in important ways: 1. We do not have bike lanes in the main roads, which many regions do. 2. We do not have signed bike routes (you ever try to use a map and ride a bike at the same time?) 3. The SEMCOG maps do not even go so far as suggest best routes for bicycle travel; they just give someone information and let the bicyclist figure it out for himself. Not much if you ask me. Once again, we are behind other regions; worse yet, our planners and civic leaders have no idea what other regions have done. Professor Scott | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 303 Registered: 08-2005 |
Playing devil's advocate here, but what did Ann Arbor do that Detroit hasn't to turn their city into a more bike-friendly place? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 353 Registered: 12-2006 |
Ann Arbor has, for starters, a bicycle use master plan that was developed by a world-class expert, a fellow named Norm Cox who does this sort of thing for a living. Detroit, on the other hand, has never made any effort to accommodate bicyclists. Now, granted, Ann Arbor is a college town, which Detroit isn't. That's why in my earlier note I mentioned other more "ordinary" cities such as Chicago, Portland and Toronto, each of which has made a directed effort to make their cities more amenable to bicycle travel. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1245 Registered: 04-2006 |
Prof, think about the liability of putting together maps that suggest a route. In fact Norm Cox's group was involved in putting the SEMCOG maps together. As you mentioned, Ann Arbor is a college town. Being such, they have to manage their bikes. Its a bit unfair to compare Ann Arbor to somewhere on the urban fringe, or even along Gratiot or Woodward; totally different scales and needs. I would think that liability is one of the reasons why so many agencies shy away from bicycle off of a pathway. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 354 Registered: 12-2006 |
Liability is a red herring. Since bicycles are permitted on all roads, a road agency is liable for anything that happens to a bicyclist exactly as much as it is liable for anything that happens to a motorist. Why then is it OK for MDOT to designate certain roads as state trunk line highways? Does that increase their liability? Can I sue MDOT because I had a crash on a road they marked as M-3, because I believe them numbering the road guarantees I will be safe on it? This is exactly the sort of nonsense people bring up when they don't want to make positive changes. Many states and cities have designated on road bikeways. New York has a few thousand miles of such, Chicago has hundreds of miles, and so on. Basically, the people who run Detroit and its environs don't believe people should travel by any means whatsoever except the automobile. That's what they've built the environment for, and nobody is willing to do anything meaningful to change it. By the way every other City I mentioned - never mind Ann Arbor, I agree with you there - is thriving economically compared to Detroit and this region. Perhaps our persistent stubbornness in providing any kind of transportation choice has something to do with it? Nah, it must not be. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1086 Registered: 08-2006 |
This is being sponsored by "Detroit Bikes" Alex Froelich's project. A nicer guy who is both as passionate of biking, and his City you will not find. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 355 Registered: 12-2006 |
I wish some of our city and regional leaders and planners would travel to other cities and see what they've done in regard to this. See the number of people who bicycle-commute in Portland and Chicago, while we sit with our engines idling away $3.29 gas in the construction zones. Sigh. | ||
Transitrider Member Username: Transitrider Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2007 |
Related, could be a start in the right direction: Subject: Pedestrian Safety Action Plan Workshop Opportunity The State of Michigan and the City of Detroit have been selected to participate in a Pedestrian Safety Action Plan Workshop as part of an effort to make our city and region safer for pedestrians. This initiative is funded by the Federal Highway Administration and hosted by Michigan Department of Transportation. As part of this same initiative last year, SEMCOG sponsored a 2-day workshop focused on improving pedestrian safety through street design and engineering countermeasures. This year, we invite you to participate in a 2-day workshop focusing on creating a pedestrian safety action plan for your community. As detailed in the attached agenda, topics in this workshop include: Involving stakeholders in the planning process Collecting data to identify pedestrian safety problems Analyzing information and prioritizing concerns Selecting effective education and enforcement strategies Providing funding for pedestrian safety improvements This workshop will take place on June 14-15 from 8:00 to 4:30 at Wayne State University, Schaver Building, 5451 Cass Avenue, Detroit, MI 48202. This is an opportunity to work with two of the country's top pedestrian safety experts in an intense exercise in which all participants are expected to be actively involved. We believe you can help us develop realistic strategies to make our community a safer and more pleasant place to walk. If you plan to attend, we encourage you to prepare for the event by visiting the Pedestrian and Bicycle Information Center Web site (www.walkinginfo.org) and downloading the document "How to Develop a Pedestrian Safety Action Plan." Please read the chapter(s) relevant to your work. Also, for those who RSVP, the workshop coordinator will be contacting you soon to ask you to bring certain documents. Please bring these documents with you to the workshop, or send them ahead of time if so requested. At the workshop, we will hear suggestions from experts and we will work collaboratively towards making changes in our current policies and procedures to make conditions safer for walking. Please be ready to make these commitments to the extent of your authority. A walking audit to a problem area will help us understand and identify obstacles to walking; you will suggest potential short and long-term solutions. Please wear comfortable shoes and clothing suitable for the weather that day. There is no fee to workshop participants, but space is limited. To reserve your seat, by June 1, e-mail Melinda Ball at the Michigan Department of Transportation, ballm@michigan.gov, (517)241-0006. Please indicate location and date preference in your e-mail. For additional information, please e-mail or call Josh DeBruyn DeBruynJ@michigan.gov, (517)335-2918, with your questions. Sincerely, Trevor Brydon Planner Transportation Programs Southeast Michigan Council of Governments 535 Griswold St., Suite #300 Detroit, MI 48226 313/324.3336 Desk 313/961.4266 Receptionist 313/324.3449 Fax | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 360 Registered: 12-2006 |
Nice! Thanks for that information. If you want to see street design in action, go to Livernois Avenue in two places in Detroit: Say, at Fenkell, then north two miles to Seven Mile. At the northern point, Livernois has been reconfigured to a boulevard with a grass median; at the southern point, this has not yet been done (but will be). As a pedestrian, consider the risks to yourself crossing that street at each of those two points. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9145 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm currently about 1000 miles away from home on business. I don't think I could make the distance on my bike. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 361 Registered: 12-2006 |
You'd need a lot of time but it's not impossible. For instance Google maps allows you 29 days and change to swim across the Atlantic if you're traveling to Europe from the US. Go to maps.google.com and in the text box type "Detroit, Michigan to London, England" if you have never seen what I'm talking about. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 205 Registered: 06-2005 |
quote: Scott: That's not at all true. In fact, Detroit has done much more than most communities within the SEMCOG region. They've installed bike lanes and are supporting additional lanes on MDOT roads (Michigan and Gratiot). They're working on Midtown as well. They do have a basic plan for accomodating bikes on the road and converted rail ROWs via the Greenways Initiative. In fact, at the Greenways public planning session, Detroit provided far more public input than the participating counties. It was overwhelming, especially compared with what Oakland County had. Some communities also have their own non-motorized plans, such as Corktown. As I mentioned before, unlike most other cities in the region, Detroit doesn't need a lot of bike lanes. Most of its streets have low traffic volume, low speeds, and wide curb lanes. For instance, on Saturday I had a great ride on Dequindre from Eight Mile to American Axle. Try doing that anywhere else south of Stony and it's a high risk ride. The SEMCOG mapping project was mostly done in-house, although I think Norm was involved. While I personally don't find the maps very valuable, I was told the main benefit of this project was integrating all of the relevant road conditions and non-motorized information within the SEMCOG GIS. And, if I'm not mistaken, I believe Giffels did a ped-plan for Detroit recently. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 362 Registered: 12-2006 |
Fishtoes, I'm happy to hear that but I don't know anything about any of this. I'd think I'd know if things were going on; I'm connected somewhat in the bike world. Couple questions: 1. Can you point out to me anywhere in Detroit where there are actual bike lanes? I've never seen one in Detroit. Ferndale, yes, but not Detroit. I'd love to go take a look. 2. My point in earlier posts, and the work I've been doing on this with others, is that a typical bicyclist (or potential bicyclist) has no idea how to get from point A to point B in a reasonable way on a bicycle, and the region has been incredibly unhelpful compared to other regions. Show me how I as a potential bike commuter could get from Corktown to Downtown or Palmer Park to New Center or Rivertown to Greektown or anywhere to anywhere. Chicago has done great work with this, the only way it can be done, with signs. Other cities I've already named have done the same. We could fix this with a not-too-expensive analysis (which Norm would be thrilled to do) and a few thousand dollars worth of signs. Maps just don't cut it at all; maps are a joke; try consulting a map repeatedly while bicycling. One of our correspondents pointed out that some of the low-traffic roads go through what he described as "undesirable neighborhoods". I think we can look at that a different way; if a low-traffic road through such a neighborhood is designated as a regional bikeway and that attracts people who might like to bike-commute or bicycle recreationally, that might help to improve the neighborhood. My main point is that other cities and regions have done work to encourage people to use their bicycles by helping to show them that a bicycle can be used for transportation. The potential bicyclists in metro Detroit have nothing. Plans are garbage; we make lots of plans and they sit on shelves at SEMCOG. Perhaps they help to insulate the building. A plan that never gets implemented is a joke. Show me something on the ground; show me that a Detroiter has some way of finding a reasonable bike route in a reasonable manner as people in other cities have had for one or two decades. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 971 Registered: 11-2003 |
Professorscott - you come off as a total a-hole. Maybe you're not as "well connected" as you boast. Here is the link to study fishtoes mentioned. http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/pl andevl/advplanning/pdfs/nonmot or/ Detroit is doing just as much, if not more than the rest of the region. We'd all like to see everything complete right now, but any resonable person knows that's not possible. Yes, we are way behind Chicago, Toronto and many other cities, but at least we're moving in the right direction. Get involved instead whining and making condescending comments. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9157 Registered: 10-2003 |
What is the law in regards to where you have to ride your bike? I have never known definitively if it is illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk. | ||
Evelyn Member Username: Evelyn Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree with Professor Scott. Detroit has done virtually nothing to encourage bicyclists. Almost every other city I've visited- St. Louis, Albuquerque, Denver, to name a few at random- at least have bike lanes, posted bike routes, and bike racks on the front of many of the buses. Detroit has bike lanes on Belle Isle and for a few blocks in front of the Ren Cen. Not very useful for those using their bikes to get around. And the low traffic volume on streets isn't necessarily a good thing. Call me gutless all you want, but there are plenty of places in Detroit where I would NEVER want to get a flat. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 365 Registered: 12-2006 |
Jt1, It is legal to ride your bicycle on the road (except freeways) everywhere in the US. It is legal in Michigan to ride on a sidewalk unless a local jurisdiction prohibits it. Studies have shown that with a few specific exceptions, it is nearly always safer to ride on the road, legally (in the same direction as traffic and obeying stop signs etc.) than to ride on a sidewalk or roadside path. Jfried, I do not argue that the City is doing less than the rest of this region; that would be difficult to imagine. Evelyn's points are precisely what I'm trying to say. I am only a partial a-hole though. Detroit has a nonmotorized plan; that's good, but I could insulate my house with the rapid transit plans we've produced over the last seventy years. Plans are only beneficial if implemented. Show me something on the ground, not something on a shelf. | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 231 Registered: 11-2003 |
You would would be hard pressed to find a more involved--and connected--cycling advocate than Fishtoes2000. He has been involved in several statewide and local organizations, projects, and events. All representing the interest of cyclists. (I'm lucky enough to bike with him most Monday nights.) There haven't been many elected officials that have pressed for the needs of cyclists. Dante Lanzetta, former mayor/coucilperson from Birmingham, has been involved in cycling issues for years. He was able to convince his city to stripe cycling lanes on Adams north of Woodward before he left office. He was also the force behind the SEMCOG biking maps. There was also Horatio Earle. But he passed on a while ago. ;) There have been some positive changes in the past few years. --Counties and cities are no longer able to credit paving gravel roads to their non-motorized spending requirements. --There has been a big push for greenways and non-motorized paths. For the most part, they have been huge successes. --The 'right people' have been brought in to speak about the importance and benefits of cycling to engineers throughout the state. A planner from Portland, OR. gave a presentation to ~200 planners and engineers from throughout the state a few weeks ago that bluntly stated that the benefit-cost ratio (and life-cycle costs) of bike lanes are a slam dunk. The audience really did listen to her message. (Their new aerial tram didn't quite get the same praise...) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 367 Registered: 12-2006 |
RO, The problem I have with very avid bicyclists is they do not mostly understand that most of the public will not bicycle on the road unless some accommodation is made for them such as bike lanes. An example: Fishtoes2000 said "Detroit doesn't need a lot of bike lanes". That is true so long as Fishtoes2000 is only expecting himself and people like him to ride a bicycle in Detroit. My position is different; I want the general public to feel that it can use bicycles as a form of transportation, and there is an overwhelming body of evidence that most people will not use bicycles for transportation if you just expect them to ride on the road "as is". I don't see the nonmotorized paths providing a great benefit because they simply don't connect places; they serve a recreational use but not a transportation use. Almost nobody in metro Detroit commutes by bicycle; contrast that with Portland or Chicago. I'm sick of hearing about meetings where people speak and others listen and applaud. Garbage. Show me infrastructure. Other regions get it; metro Detroit does not. In other regions, people can commute by bicycle, transit or private car; in Detroit and its suburbs, people just don't have a real choice. Gas is $3.30 and still we don't think the public here deserves a real choice. Don't blow smoke. Facts are facts and we just aren't doing anywhere near enough. Don't argue with me; help me change things. We can't move forward by pretending we already have. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 736 Registered: 11-2005 |
This is Detroit, traitor. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 206 Registered: 06-2005 |
ProfessorScott is well connected, very bright, and a good guy. I just need to take him on some Detroit bike rides to prove my point. We'd start with Second Ave, which is mostly four lanes, one way with daily vehicle counts probably under a grand. I've read the studies on bikes and wide curb lanes, but the City of Detroit is a different animal due to its built road infrastructure exceeding the actual usage. If Detroit had 2.5 million residents, I probably couldn't say that. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 379 Registered: 12-2006 |
Fishtoes, I'm very familiar with the Detroit street infrastructure. My point is quite a few people who might like to bicycle will not do so unless they perceive they have a facility dedicated to them. This would not be expensive or difficult in a place like Detroit where the road infrastructure has excess capacity; it is a matter of (as the practitioners say) "moving paint". You and I, and a small number of others, are willing to ride on arterial streets without demanding the government "give us a lane"; the problem is most people are not. Also, more importantly, how many people would think to use Second, other than you and me? I have thought for a long time that what metro Detroit needs is a system of signed bicycle routes, connecting the major destination points, with bike lanes added where they would help. Lacking that, practically nobody will use a bicycle for transportation, as you see. |
