Tarkus Member Username: Tarkus
Post Number: 210 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 9:34 pm: | |
Does anyone know how far inland the Milk River ran before the pump station was put in? Did it run into Detroit? I could not find anything at the Burton Library downtown. Any help would be appreciated. |
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 181 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:14 pm: | |
The pump station at the end of Alger? |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2946 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:20 pm: | |
I think it originated in the marshland of Grosse Pointe Woods and Harper Woods. As the area was developed into farms and the marshes drained, a series of drainage ditches and canals were spilled into the river before it was enclosed in the 1940s. See if you can find anything on the Grosse-Gratiot Drainage Project and report back here. I'd love to know more. |
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100
Post Number: 205 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:33 pm: | |
It runs right through the Grosse Pointe Woods park, across Jefferson and out towards Detroit. It was definitely turned into a ditch, since the banks are like the Rouge. |
321brian Member Username: 321brian
Post Number: 272 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:51 pm: | |
It runs underground for sometime through the Pointes. If you drive down Martier look to the east and you will notice that each street has a little bump not too far from Martier. That's the river. Check it out on Google maps and you should be able to trace the river based on the way some houses are built. You should at least be able to see that it went to Renauld. |
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 131 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:10 pm: | |
It use to, and still does enclosed in a tube, end at the woods park, travel across Grosse Pointe Woods. You can see a hump in at least one of the street, maybe Roslyn, and the houses have a space between them on some of the other streets. And then it use to run where Chalfonte is today. That street has a pipe under it big enough to drive a truck through. The Country Club of Detroit use to go to Mack, or pretty close to Mack and they would cross bridges over this river. Then they made an agreement to change the footprint of the course and the new property line moved over closer to Moross and pulled back in to the other side of the river which was covered and is now a sewer. There are a few pumping stations along it and the pipe goes along the side of Liggetts property. THe Indians use to use it as an inland route and it started close to where the Fox River started in the other direction, so when the lake was to rough, they would use these rivers to travel. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2947 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:22 pm: | |
I've previously posted maps of the old creeks in the area, and a photo or two of the construction of the drainage projects. Try a search of the archives. The Country Club property once extended west of Mack. That end was sold to developers in the 1930s to pay off delinquent taxes. |
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920
Post Number: 168 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 11:30 am: | |
Robert Selwa of the Macomb Daily wrote a nice history of the Milk River. It was published in a book called Townacour Place (spelling is wrong) that was about the Grosse Pointes. |
The_rock Member Username: The_rock
Post Number: 1488 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 3:37 pm: | |
Bob Selwa's article from the Macomb Daily appears on pages 106-108 in volume 1, Tonnacour, written by Art Woodford in 1994. It appears that the article was written in 1985, and the river has undergone a well-needed cleanup since then. I believe there was a time when Grosse Pointers had the cost of the clean up appear on their tax bills. |
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker
Post Number: 1733 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 4:09 pm: | |
From the 1921 navigation chart available at NOAA
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Tarkus Member Username: Tarkus
Post Number: 214 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 4:17 pm: | |
Thanks for the help. |
The_rock Member Username: The_rock
Post Number: 1489 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 4:54 pm: | |
Interesting chart, hornwrecker. My mother's family were Gauklers, which I note is spelled Gankler Point on the NOAA chart, but which also spells Gaukler Loop correctly. I have a fair share of information on Gaukler Point, the sale of the property by Josephine Gaukler to Henry Ford etc. But I had not heard of Gaukler Loop before. I know that the road out there ( Jefferson ) looks a lot different now than it did back then. |
Horn_wrecker Moderator Username: Horn_wrecker
Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 4:59 pm: | |
From a 1930s street map, Milk River highlighted in purple.
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Dlb Member Username: Dlb
Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 5:29 pm: | |
Some great info on the river, since I live on the Milk. Its the closet I'll ever get to waterfront property. |
Dlb Member Username: Dlb
Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 5:32 pm: | |
closet=closest |
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 1046 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 4:14 am: | |
Does anyone have info on the area? I lived on Maxine for 3 years and I must say for the burbs it wasn't bad |
The_rock Member Username: The_rock
Post Number: 1490 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 7:14 am: | |
Wow! Another interesting map from the wrecker! This one from the 30's. My neighborhood, just east of the Hunt Club and North of Cook Road, is undeveloped, swamp land. Not one street all the way to the lake. And the Milk River appears to be running under Chalfonte, just East of Mack Avenue. No wonder folks over there have some basement flooding. |
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 132 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 9:47 am: | |
Well, if you notice the golf course side house at the corner of Moross and Chalfonte, that persons yard always fills up with water. That tells you how high the water table is right there, and in the spring, as soon as the leaves come out, all of that water disappears. That is one reason I like our location just East of Ridge, we are less than a block away from the highest point in Wayne county. |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 2949 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:26 am: | |
The Moross-Chalfonte area is the wet middle ground between the Milk and Fox creeks on the backside of "the ridge". Some of the houses in that area don't have basements. I think the creek was put in a tube under Chalfonte in 1927. The Torrey Rd pump station was built around 1944 and the Marter Rd stretch was open as late as 1960. Rock, when was your house built? Your neighborhood looks relatively new. |
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920
Post Number: 169 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:58 am: | |
Harsensis: I thought the highest point in Wayne County was out in Northville Township. I could be mistaken. |
The_rock Member Username: The_rock
Post Number: 1492 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 12:36 pm: | |
I believe that our house was put up in the early 50's, and we were one of the last open areas to become a "neighborhood" in GPW. The 30's map also indicates a fair share of open area to the east of Lochmoor CC, where the GP Terraces are now, and where the GP North High School campus is now situated. These old maps are really neat. I have one of "Grosse Pointe Township" which is undated but which shows all the strip farms extending from the lake to what is now Mack Avenue as well as the owners names, many of which have become street names in the Pointes. A portion of the map shows a dotted line referred to as the "Ditch" which seemingly parallels the Milk River. |
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 41 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:37 pm: | |
Hornwrecker, can those maps from 1921 be found on the NOAA website? |
Haydenth Member Username: Haydenth
Post Number: 206 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:53 pm: | |
You can search the NOAA here: http://historicals.ncd.noaa.go v/historicals/histmap.asp I could only find a 1934 Grosse Pointe Nautical map. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 3438 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 2:17 pm: | |
That book "Tonnacour" by Arthur Woodford (retired head of the St. Clair Shores Public Library) is about the old Grosse Pointes, is it not The_rock? Wasn't "Tonnacour" the name of a social club and clubhouse back in the late 1800's in the Grosse Pointes? And of course Tonnacour is also a street name between Moross and Provencal in GPF. |
The_rock Member Username: The_rock
Post Number: 1493 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 4:54 pm: | |
There are actually two Tonnancour books, each edited by Art Woodford, Vol.1 published in 1994 and vol. 2 in 1997. Right you are, Gistok, as indicated on the cover of each volume, (they describe) "Life in Grosse Pointe and along the Shores of Lake St. Clair". Tonnancour was the name of the "summer residence" of Theodore Parsons Hall and the gathering spot for writers (including Silas Farmer) to "talk and to write". The name is taken from the same name of a stone mansion built in Quebec in the 18th century. (this per page vii of vol. one. and pg. 45 of vol 2). There are some great photos of the old GP mansions, and histories of the old GP families. Vol 1 also has an interesting article on the ships of the Great Lakes. And vol 2 ends with a nostalgic article on a GP landmark, the former Punch and Judy Theater. (When Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice played there, it was "shocking " to many Gper's. Not me, I saw it twice). Even Jacob Gaukler's ( Gaukler Pointe) grocery store at 9 Mile and Gratiot gets a mention. Both books make for fine reading. |
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 133 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 5:27 pm: | |
Our realtor was the one who told us that it was within a block of the highest point of Wayne County. He could be blowing smoke, but it is high ground. I haven't looked at a county map to check it out, but I would like to some day. I do know that when I dig down, I find sand instead of clay that is at the bottom of the hill. It makes it nice not to have standing water around for the dog to drag mud into the house. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 456 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 6:14 pm: | |
The USGS countour map below shows the ridge in GPF which gave Ridge Rd. its name. The maximum elevation of the ridge is 615 feet above sea level, with most of the area along Ridge and Kercheval between Moross and Muir being about 610 ft. The ridge drops quickly along a line parallel to and just east of Charlevoix to about 590 ft. The lowest point in the area is about 579 ft. and it is located just north of Kerby Field. A similar map indicates that the elevation of the benchmark at the northwest corner of Wayne County in Northville Twp. is 972 feet above sea level.
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Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 134 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 7:14 pm: | |
Mike, do you have a link for that map? Every time I have looked I only find ways to buy the maps. Thanks JJ |
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 135 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 7:19 pm: | |
Also it looks like somebody today should have taken the Indian inland route. Somebody with a Jeep drove into the lake today. I must have just past it before it happened, because I saw the cop racing the other way when I was a half mile away. Then I the way home I figured out where they were going. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 458 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 8:03 pm: | |
Harsenis, Here's the link to the Michigan DNR web site: USGS Topographic Quadrangle Maps by County DNR Boilerplate: To view a map, select a county from the State map or list; Pause the pointer over a county on the map to view the county name; Average PDF file size 3.1MB; Permission to copy/download topographic maps is granted for purposes of individual use. This permission excludes resale of this data in any form printed or electronic. |