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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 86
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great place to visit. Windsor is very clean; safe; free; laid back; tolerant and welcoming. There is truly something for everyone in Windsor. The waterfront is really nice during the summer months. Great for families as there are small playgrounds as well as food concession stands. On Weekends the main streets are packed with young rowdies and hooligans partying down. Many are young 19 to 21 yr olds who club hop and booze themselves into oblivion.
Theres Little Italy. Sexually frustrated guys can legally employ escort services or visit one of the myriad massage parlors.
I met a nice young hot 29 year old chinese woman on Palmer downtown: hope it works out so I will have more of an excuse to cross the border. The only drag would be having to deal with miserable rude antagonistic pouty American guards on the way back. Behaving rudely isn't going to stop terrorism guys.
Anyways, I think for having somewhere close to a million residents the crime rate is relatively low with I think only one or two murders last year. But before you start Detroit bashing remember history, taxbase and myriad other factors must be taken into consideration.
You can gamble. Play Bingo. Its a wonderful place.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3882
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All that great stuff is gonna change when the passport bullshit comes into effect.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True Patrick. Another rigid restriction in the land of the free. Ive only been held up twice in my years of going to Canada. Generally speaking Ive always whizzed right on through.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 766
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terryh, imagine being able to gamble in Detroit! Oh wait.

Also, Windsor has nowhere close to 1 million residents, even if you include London which is hours away, you're still well short.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 89
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe it was the metropolitan area. Ill look it up.
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 9161
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Windsor has a pop. of about 224,000. the entire county (including Windsor) has about 495,000.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5418
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most Windsorites keep their doors unlocked since violent crime is less. What they hear about violent crime is on the local Detroit news.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 252
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, once you turn 21, it just isn't as much fun nor necessary to go across the border. Not saying it wasn't fun when I was 19 and 20, but I much prefer going to a bar around the corner or in downtown Detroit.
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Blaw82
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Username: Blaw82

Post Number: 127
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree. It isn't as fun as it used to be. Now that I can drink wherever I want, the thrill of going to the bars in Windsor is gone. Come 2008, I have a feeling those bars are going to go belly up due to the passport regulation.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3564
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of passports... I urge all to, as I do, to awaken your political leaders, state and national, to vigorously oppose this plan. Time is growing short. If the passport requirements go into effect, they will have a devastating effect on the economies of Detroit, Windsor, Michigan and Ontario. Our entire international metropolis of Detroit will suffer more than any other point on the border. We already suffer millions in losses caused by border delays.

Ideal would be a closer union with Canada, ala the European Union, or a treaty bypassing this requirement. There one can drive freely between former enemies like France and Germany who killed millions of each other's citizens in the last century. We should be able to drive between freely between two countries that have been at peace and had good relations for 170 years.

"Tear Down that Wall!"
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Detroitbill
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Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 145
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree about the free travel, it makes alot of sense. I work in Windsor, live in Detroit, and its funny, many of my co-workers are saying very positive things about Detroit , they love what is going on in downtown Detroit and lament that they wish Windsor could develop some of the attractions and hate their downtown because of all the bars and young drinkers on weekends. They only thing they generally concur on is Windsor has a relatively safe environment and has great restaurants, (eg, Erie Street). Funny how the grass always is greener on the other side.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1291
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There should be a U.S.-Canada International Travel Card to allow fast, easy access back and forth (after fingerprinting, background check, etc.).
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Awfavre
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Username: Awfavre

Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fury13, there already is. It's called the Nexus Program. A friend who lives in Sarnia has a Nexus pass & loves it. Considering what he went through to get it, however, I thought my passport was faster & easier to get.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/tra vel/frequent_traveler/nexus_pr og/nexus.xml
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C_p
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Username: C_p

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell;
Day by day our freedoms are being eroded by terrorism.
Used to be we could go to Detroit for lunch.
Now I'm gonna need a PASSPORT to go to Lafayette's for a dog.
What a world
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 254
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell, the 2008 deadline has already been pushed back several years. If those that want to travel haven't figured this out by now, then let them be stuck in their own country or at the border.
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L_b_patterson
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Username: L_b_patterson

Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of note, a passport is required for US/CDN flights now though.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 258
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True, plus a passport seems like big requirement to those being from the border region, but someone outside of MI might think that this is a good idea. After all, once you do it once it lasts for year.
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a passport lasts a couple of years right? for 80-100$$$
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Ohudson
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Username: Ohudson

Post Number: 164
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A passport lasts for 10 years. $10 per year ain't so bad.

(Message edited by Ohudson on January 17, 2007)
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 750
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The new passport requirements are a big issue out here in the Pacific Northleft. Travel between Western B.C. and Washington is huge on a couple of fronts. British Columbia is a major tourist destination from the U.S. and the Washington border towns are major shopping destinations for Canadian residents.

I don't think the residents of Point Roberts, WA are looking too highly of the passport thing, either.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2863
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still don't have a passport yet. =(

I agree with Lowell. There needs to be special arrangements for people who live on border-states such as Michigan, Washington, New York, etc. Our economies depend on international trade and tourism. Washington DC doesn't get it.
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L_b_patterson
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Username: L_b_patterson

Post Number: 312
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would just assume that the wealthy elite of Point roberts can afford these passports (and probably most already had them)
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Mountainman
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Username: Mountainman

Post Number: 122
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As the law stands right now, the passport law will be implemented no later than Jan. 2009. I just got back to MT from Detroit, and have to agree with the basic premise that once you're 21, Windsor has very little for you. I grew up in Windsor, and was under strange delusions until I moved to Dearborn. One of my biggest gripes is that Canadian beer sucks. Has no flavor, and very little personality. Even what is left of their microbreweries is still very lack lustre, and incredibly expensive. Give me a Bells, a Ghettoblaster, or anything from Atwater Brewing co over that swill Labatt, Sleeman, or Molson makes. Walkerville ... better ... but not good.
Pelee Island wine is pretty awesome though. Mainly their whites.
Culturally and commercially, however, the Detroit side is vastly superior.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 446
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To be honest guys I don't get what the big deal is with the passports. So you need to get one. Just get one. Its needed if you ever travel to Europe and other far out places anyway.

People don't complain about car payments, or licence fees, etc. So I don't get the big deal over the passport.

Almost all my friends here in Toronto have passports, and we have had them for years.

Back to Windsor, it was amazing seeing how packed Windsor was on a Friday night when we arrived in Detroit. I have only seen Downtown Windsor in the day, when its pretty dead. Was amazing to see it at night.

Also about Windsor and being older. There is other things to do there then drink, and it would be ashame to never go there just because you can drink in Detroit now. Tons more things to do there then drink.

Anyway get passports :-) Its good to have it anyway.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 705
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Point Roberts should be part of Canada, but I digress. :-)

The legislation mandating the WHTI requirements was passed by a Republican controlled Congress that was dominated by members from the south, which means that the requirements were pushed forward by many members who had little knowledge of the realities of the northern border.

In time we will see if a Democratic Congress will eliminate the passport requirement. I am not sure if they will or if it even is a priority.

Let's face it, borders lead to inefficiencies and inefficiencies cost money. The border between Windsor and Detroit hurts the economies of both communities in certain ways and helps in others, but on the whole Windsor-Essex/Metro Detroit would be an stronger international metropolis with an EU style border. But will an EU style border even happen between the US and Canada? I think the answer is no. For all of Canada's failings (real or otherwise including some tolerance of soft drugs, its refugee system, etc.), not too many Western countries would be lining up to have open borders with the United States (re: drugs, guns, violence, gangs, poverty, etc.). Canada would fit in with the EU. The United States, well...not so much (which, of course, is fine).
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3884
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, dumb question: Why are passports so expensive? Dont they have rates for students or seniors?
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 708
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why are passports so expensive? Cost-recovery on behalf of the government, I presume (i.e. cost of documents, employees, equipment, identification verification, legal services, etc.).

Mike, in your "visiting Detroit" thread you even stated that one of the people in your group did not have her passport with her. She would not have been allowed into Les Etats Unis. You would have had to turn around and dump her at the MacDonald's by the bridge and then head back to Detroit.

Currently, neither Canada nor the United States has any document requirements at the border. Officers will often ask for a drivers' licence and a birth certificate, but those without birth certificates can be admitted into Canada or United States after a verification involving a trip to the immigration secondary inspection area. Once WHTI becomes law at land borders: no passport, no entry, no officer discretion.

Also, the passport fee and hassle involved in the application process is enough to deter people not to get passports in order to make the occasional trip to Windsor or Detroit. You may as well make the river a little wider.

I have never heard anyone (who is credible) say the passport plan will actually increase the number of travellers between the countries. What will happen is fewer Windsorites will go to Detroit and fewer Detroiters will go to Windsor, thus hurting both economies (remembering that Windsor is a lot closer to downtown Detroit than any Detroit suburb).
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 9163
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Standard fees Patrick (except for children). I think it is to upkeep the database and what-not.

At least you get 10 years for your passports. Canada gives 5 years!

Mountainman, that is like comparing LaBatt's to Budweiser. Try some of the other (by this I mean real micro-breweries that are not owned by the conglomerates) micro-breweries and you may be suprised.

BTW: The passport regulations have been pushed back to June 2009 and not January 2009. Whoopity do!

(Message edited by GOAT on January 17, 2007)
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3565
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"To be honest guys I don't get what the big deal is with the passports."

Agree and I have had a passport for 40 years. [Never know when one might have to escape the berserko's here. :-)] I always take it to Windsor because it gets you in and out with no questions. I don't like it that they are now swiping it - more tracks for my dossier.

My biggest bitch with them is why they have to be so damned big. Why can't they fit in a standard pocket wallet like a credit card?

I read somewhere that over 80% of Americans don't have passports and that will hurt cross border exchanges, especially when they learn the cost and nuisance involved. Plus because they are too damned big to carry around one is always going to be leaving them at home and will prevent impulse movement.

The fact is that it just plain sucks and it, along with all the other border controls, is just killing our economies. It is like a tax we have to pay to go from one part of our city to another that no one else on our countries has to pay.

And while I am on this soap box, I would like to see an end to the way we get ripped off on postage and cell phone roaming. Why does it cost 75% more to send a letter to Windsor? [Which I have learned first goes to Saskatchewan or somewhere in the Canadian prairies first. So delivery is neither cheap nor quick.]

I also hear you on why our Canadian friends might not be too eager to form a EU style union with the country especially in its present form as an international pariah, but back here in the D we need it.

Tear Down That Wall!
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3566
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Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more thing on this subject. Passport requirements for the Jamaica and the Caribbean Islands started this past January 7.

This prompted some resorts to offer 'free' passport vouchers. I ran a poll on the Couples Resorts website last summer to heighten awareness. 75% of the respondents reported they had valid passports. So it seems that the traveler class are more set to go then the general population.

Still everybody in the business is holding their breath to see what the effect is going to be.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4585
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Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Between my home near the river in West Village and Wyandotte where I spend a good bit of time, I was constantly hit with roaming charges from Canada. Delray is another spot cell calls are regularly charged roaming in Canada.
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Mountainman
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Username: Mountainman

Post Number: 123
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat

If I compare microbrewies such as Walkerville, Steam Whistle, and say .... Creemore Springs to any that exist in the metro Detroit area you see how blah the Canuck version of the beverage is. I make beer, and see at as much easier to make a beer with taste than the soyent green stuff the Canadian breweries are turning out.

Lowell,

I here what you're saying about the passports. They are too large, but it's a good idea for everyone to have them. I can't believe they're swiping them with every trip you're making to Canada. The passport law will most likely ravage the businesses of downtown Windsor and Erie St.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 447
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upinottawa my friend did not have a passport because she lost hers and is getting another one. If she actually had needed it for the trip, she would have had gotten the replacement going before instead of waiting till now.

I just really don't see the big deal. Should we start complaining that we need licences?

80% of people not having a passport is kinda weird. That means 80% of US residents have never left North America.

The cost I really think should not even be such a big issue. If people can live in their 3,000 sq foot homes, drive the newest cars, etc. Then I think they can afford a passport.

If you really want to travel, and see things, you will get a passport.

I think it just depends on your priorities.

I can't remember the exact figure, but I don't think the passport thing is going to be as big a deal with Canadians, as something like half or over half of Canadians have passports. I think Canadians travel outside North America more then Americans.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 710
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike, (BTW, I am not trying to pick on you),

do you have any idea the number of Detroiters (especially Detroit proper) who head over to Windsor to play bingo each night? For a lot of these bingo players there venture over to Windsor is their night out, a chance to hang out with friends, and maybe win some money they won't disclose to the IRS. For a substantial percentage of these people (I assume), $100 is fair chunk of money.

Also, have you not been reading the Toronto papers? The WHTI plans will add $400 US to a family of fours' trip to Niagra Falls or Toronto (assuming each person needs to obtain a passport, and you say that 80% of Americans do not have passports). Is that going to help Toronto's booming tourist industry?

What about the Windsorite who pops over to Mexicantown on Monday nights three times a year but does not do any other substantial international travel? $87 CDN plus passport photos? I guess it is going to be easier to get a table Monday nights....

No big deal? Tell a Windsor business owner that a 30 minute delay at the Ambassador Bridge is no big deal.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 260
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I agree with Lowell. There needs to be special arrangements for people who live on border-states such as Michigan, Washington, New York, etc. Our economies depend on international trade and tourism. Washington DC doesn't get it."

I'd rather just get a passport than have Michigan become part of Canada...
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 261
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also it costs $$ to cross the boarder in our parts. Two trips in a year over like ten years is the cost of a passport, really not that expensive for one. Sure beats waiting at the border any longer, in theory things would move more quickly: simple look at the passport, then good to go...
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2868
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlotte, what about people who are not Michigan residents but want to visit the region? Keep in mind that less than 30 percent of the US population has or owns a passport.
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Noula
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Username: Noula

Post Number: 64
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can always have a fun time in Windsor. Its like a little Montreal - three bars and a church at every corner. Figures, the first white settlers were the French-speaking Canadiens from Montreal.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 769
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not like you pay for a new passport every time you cross the border. You guys can't just add the cost of the passport onto each trip like it's gasoline or something.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 91
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember chatting with a parking attendant in Windsor and him telling me that he preferred partying in Detroit, so yeah, the grass is always greener on the other side. The big groups of young rowdies did make me a little uncomfortable on one visit so I either hang out early or just go straight to bingo or wherever my destination is on night excursions.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 228
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An article from today regarding the changes in passport rules: http://travel.msn.com/Guides/a rticle.aspx?cp-documentid=3805 28&gt1=9016
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Blitz
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Username: Blitz

Post Number: 219
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The passport thing is ludicrous. 80% of Americans don't have one, the majority of Canadians don't have one (including me) and this legislation will hurt Windsor-Detroit and do nothing to improve border security. Now for a family of 4 in Windsor to just enjoy a Tigers game, they'll all have to have passports. Idiocy.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 277
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe more ppl from the states will be forced to stay in Detroit, and then those Canadians that enjoy partying in Detroit over Windsor will get stuck in Canada and it will be a moot point with an affect of simply cancelling out each others lost business, ever thought of that?
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 723
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlotte, not to be rude, but you don't have to be Adam Smith to see the flaws in your logic.

(Message edited by upinottawa on January 20, 2007)
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 290
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess some economists might say that Detroit has what Canadians want and Canada has what some Detroiters want. Is that where you were going Upinottawa? I think that if that is the case, certainly demand might outweigh the measly cost of a passport since the cost of the border crossing does continuously.

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