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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 320
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why does everyone hate Hall Road so much?

Ya, it's a pain to drive through sometimes but if you live in Macomb County and want something, chances are thats where you are headed.

Detroit can only DREAM about having an area like that within its city limits.

Oh, people coming from all over to spend money. The horror!!!!
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Scottr
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Post Number: 245
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a nightmare, more like.

the money would be nice for any city, but i wouldn't wish that particular area on my worst enemy.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 321
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot. It's not much to look at either. \

I will admit I wouldn't want to live too close to the area but it is nice to have near enough that it is easy to get to.
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Jjw
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Post Number: 256
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I stumbled upon Hall Road by accident the last time I was in the metro area. A surprise party was held there for an old friend and I attended. This was near Garfield. Oh--wow--that has got to be the biggest nightmare I have ever seen in my life. I was sent to find a business on that street(?). I gave up, came back and said we would have to do without.
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Croweblack
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Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because it is "sprawl". The people who hate Hall road, hate seeing cars on there, hate seeing ample parking for all the stores, hate seeing each business in their own building and they hate the fact that those same big box retailors probably laughed their asses off when some one suggested building a store in Detroit.

The people who hate Hall road want you to park your car three miles away. Take an Alternative energy fueled bus to around the area of the store of your choice. Then pay a premium tax on everything you buy.

A friend of mine actually talked to one of the people that does reasearch for expansion possibilities for Meijer and when he asked whether the chain thought about expanding in Detroit his response was "hell no!"
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2143
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You call it Hall Road, I call it Rockville Pike, and Chicagoans call it Schaumburg. It's the same bullshit you can find anywhere in America.

Hooray endless parking lots and traffic jams. Sounds thrilling. Where do I sign up?
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 31
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't have an omelet without breaking a few eggs, and you can't have prosperity without traffic.

Just drive with your eyes open and leave enough space for those in "shopping mode" to cut across all four lanes of traffic to get to the hot handbag sale. Haha!

I admit though there can't be much joy in slow traffic from Pontiac to I-94.

I would be all for a walkable version in the temporary MGM Casino space.
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Stecks77
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Post Number: 268
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can have your cake and choke on it.
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Danindc
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Post Number: 2145
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You can't have an omelet without breaking a few eggs, and you can't have prosperity without traffic.



But sprawl isn't like eating an omelette. It's like eating three eggs. Then eating two slices of cheese. Then eating the ham. And then the mushrooms, etc. You don't consume the ingredients together--you consume them individually, with a car trip required between each one. It's the same ingredients, but far from being the same thing.

If sprawl really did represent prosperity, Michigan would be kicking the ass of just about every other state in the Union.
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Because it is "sprawl". The people who hate Hall road, hate seeing cars on there, hate seeing ample parking for all the stores, hate seeing each business in their own building and they hate the fact that those same big box retailors probably laughed their asses off when some one suggested building a store in Detroit"

That, and the road is poorly designed. At best. It should have had local thru lanes, and express lanes. Any traffic engineer worth a lick will tell you how poorly that stretch is designed.

As for Meijer, if things change, watch how fast their answer changes. Just sayin'. That answer (if real) isn't driven by Meijer's great-hate for Detroit. It's driven by the market.

But you stick with what you've got goin'.
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Superduperman
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Post Number: 197
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm hoping someone does something good with the temporary MGM space once they vacate,has anyone heard anything?
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4035
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If MI is doing so bad it sure as hell doesnt show on Hall Road. The thing is that people who live out there bitch about it a lot. So why the fark sis you move there? The schools arent superb and the houses arent special.
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Patrick
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Post Number: 4036
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If MI is doing so bad it sure as hell doesnt show on Hall Road. The thing is that people who live out there bitch about it a lot. So why the fark did you move there? The schools arent superb and the houses arent special.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2146
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Really? Buildings with no windows and styrofoam exteriors are considered "luxury" these days? You would think such a prosperous area could afford nicer buildings, and perhaps a school building that didn't look like a prison without barbed wire.

Oh no! You spent all your money on pavement? I'm so sorry!

(Message edited by DaninDC on February 13, 2007)
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 384
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Walmart built in Detroit then Meijer sure as hell won't still be laughing.
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Patrick
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Post Number: 4037
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The new "luxury" mall at Partridge Creek will make the area even worse.
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Jdkeepsmiling
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Post Number: 195
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love Styrofoam as an exterior design feature.
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Treelock
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Username: Treelock

Post Number: 182
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My favorite part of that area is how everything identifies itself by its proximity to a ginormous mall — i.e., Lakeside Collision, Lakeside Tan&Nailz, Lexus of Lakeside, etc. Though with the water views, it's easy to see why.
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321brian
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Post Number: 322
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like the styrofoam they put on the downtown buildings before the Super Bowl? The Board Room never looked better.
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Archinnovator
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Post Number: 12
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They're in the process of building an "outdoor mall" on Hall Rd. between Romeo Plank and Garfield as we speak...all the walkability one could ask for! Along with a subdivision, it occupies the space of a former golf course and should contribute considerably to the horrible congestion that Nino's already creates during evening rush hour.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 50
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall road is a consumers paradise. If you like a lot of shit that big box stores sell this is your place. I would say it represents America in it's current suburban, corporate state.

I do not like hall road because I enjoy walkable communities, intimate ma & pa shops, cities with character and style. The Hall road area lacks all of these things.

Hall road looks like one big magazine ad to me. But it's a good place to get in a traffic jam!

Detroit may never have a Meijer or Best Buy, I say good, keep the American dream alive.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 323
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Detroit keeping the American dream alive.

They should put that on the city limit signs.

Driving around it's obvious that the dream is alive and well in this diverse metropolis full of walkable communities with streets lines with ma & pa shops.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 51
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a great idea we need to get this to Kwame.

The New Detroit "Keeping the American dream alive".

That is the best suggestion on the DetroitYes forum I have heard in a long time.
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Udmphikapbob
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Username: Udmphikapbob

Post Number: 269
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

most of us don't think of this:

http://img265.imageshack.us/im g265/2811/untitled1pa1.jpg

as the ideal model of sustainable development.

oh - and i used to live near there...i remember buying halloween pumpkins from the local farmer, where dave & busters is located today.

(Message edited by udmphikapbob on February 13, 2007)
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321brian
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Post Number: 324
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i remember sheep where dave and busters is.
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Eric_c
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Post Number: 912
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The sheep are all still there, Brian.
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Udmphikapbob
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Post Number: 270
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ winner of teh internets!
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Rjlj
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Post Number: 259
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Way too many uncultured sheep.
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Higgs1634
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Username: Higgs1634

Post Number: 44
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit being such the beacon of culture and refinement.
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Yelloweyes
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Post Number: 53
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look at all the museums, theatres, sports venues, nightlife, and concert halls on Hall road!
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Archinnovator
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Post Number: 14
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall Rd. is becoming more and more diverse every day...look at all the different brands of car dealerships popping up left and right. A new Range Rover/Jaguar, Jeep/Chrysler, Lincoln/Mercury, Volvo, Nissan, and Ford all within mere miles of one another!
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Rbdetsport
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Post Number: 215
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live around Hall Road. I love it, but I would much rather be living in the city. It starts to get depressing seeing all of the parking lots and a new building going up every month when the economy is so bad. It pisses me off, but I gotta love Hall Road. I have grown up here a couple miles north and go to school south of hall road.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 491
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall Road. I know that area well as my cousins live off Hall Road. We always shop there when we visit them.

Although I gotta admit after 5 hours of shopping on that street in one day(during Black Friday) you do get this sense of being in the centre of nothingness, and a place with no soul. Even my mom made a comment when we were stuck shopping there for hours. Her comment was "is there not a downtown we can go to that has some style" :-)

People hate places like Hall Road, because it is places like Hall Road that have killed our downtowns and cities.
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Fareastsider
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Post Number: 95
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall road is safe for being a major state trunk line. you may not have separate through lanes but the distance for turn arounds and ample signage make it safe and easy for any AWARE driver. Do you think that ANY train line today could create the economic growth that Hall Road did. even if it was as subsidies as major road expansion is. When people have choices to make they usually choose the auto and until that changes or cars become out of most peoples price range we will have Hall Roads. Think about it there is also M-5, 16 Mile, Telegraph, Michigan Ave, Fort St., Lapeer Rd., Van Dyke, Mound Rd., M-53 Bypass, Stephenson Hwy, Gratiot Ave, 8 Mile Rd., Northwestern Hwy, etc. Hall Rd is not a solitary eyesore. I consider 8 Mile the Hall Rd of the fifties. Look at the Wayne Aerials from 1949 there was alot of open space on 8 Mile road then. And Detroit does have large Hall Rd like Roads. They are just better designed with walkable streets and buildings and the excellent architecture unfortunately void in the exurbs. Most of peoples money goes for their personal wealth now and not towards proud structures such as churches or personally owned businesses to make their community unique.
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Danindc
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Do you think that ANY train line today could create the economic growth that Hall Road did. even if it was as subsidies as major road expansion is.



Yes. Yes I do. Most of the "growth" that Hall Road "created" was merely displaced from other places in the region. A rail line would allow increased development in an area that's already considered "built-out".

And it's real easy to "choose" the auto in Southeast Michigan when it's the only choice!
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Charlottepaul
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Post Number: 471
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall Road is the trophy of the automobile!
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Chitaku
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Post Number: 1145
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I lived off Hall rd, the place is hell, and I'm glad i moved!
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Fareastsider
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not doubt that a rail line if funded and build right could generate a serious amount of economic prosperity. You bring up a good point about the developed area. In a former farm land the changes are much more noticable than in a established city. I hate the term "Growth" it is so misleading. such as the GROWTH of Macomb Twp, when the region is in decline as a whole.
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Makeer
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The one real purpose Hall Road serves is to remind us why the rest of the world hates us.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice one Eric_c. :-)
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Mackinaw
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't believe how many sprawl-lovers are showing up on Detroityes. I hope you're all just playing devil's advocate.

Sure Hall Rd., along with Rochester Rd. and all that shit up there, creates "growth," but is it really okay for government expenditures which create growth, i.e. road building, to favor exurbs so heavily? There are a lot of "good" types of government spending that make places a better place to live, and which can encourage economic growth. The consensus among MI lawmakers, and among the middle class among Michigan, has been to support the most destructive and ugly form of "growth:" sprawl. The state has subsidized sprawl, plain and simple, and it has not done this in addition to subsidizing the redevelopment of the inner city, it has done this almost exclusively, and its a sin. I realize that, in America, with the preferences of middle America, sprawl subsidizing will always take place, but we should expect commensurate enabling of inner city economic development, by rebuilding infrastructures and funding transit. Michigan legislators just don't consider this, though, so the wholesale infrastructure rebuilding that we are seeing in the redeveloping areas of Detroit, i.e. Brush Park and the east Riverfront, are expenses which the state is hardly paying for (mostly its the city). The state should either fund infrastructure equally across county, suburb, and city, or it shouldn't fund it at all. Given our deficits, I really wouldn't mind the latter solution. It would be a harsh wakeup call for those who have relied on state funding for so long so that they can drive their car wherever they want.
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Eastsidedog
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Mackinaw. :-)
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Chow
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Post Number: 352
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"A friend of mine actually talked to one of the people that does reasearch for expansion possibilities for Meijer and when he asked whether the chain thought about expanding in Detroit his response was 'hell no!'"

And if you actually talk to someone at Meijer, as I have, they say that they would like to open a Detroit store but are concerned with theft. Shrink brings the margins down too much for it to be viable.

... or perhaps they'd just say hell no!!!
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Professorscott
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best thing about M-59 in Macomb County and M-53 from 18 1/2 Mile to 34 Mile is that all the taxpayers in Michigan spent the hundreds of million dollars to expand those roads so the communities along them could grow at the expense of other Michigan communities.

As others have said, metro Detroit is playing a zero-sum game because our regional economy is not growing and our regional population is not growing. A new store on a new, widened suburban superhighway means a closing sale somewhere "older". A new house in Macomb Township or Novi means another abandoned house in Detroit. The best thing is, we are all paying real dollars for this whether we like it or not.
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Gannon
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just at the Meijer on Dix/Toledo down in Lincoln Park...they were doing one of their zipcode surveys.

The two people in front of me were both from Detroit. That makes three in a row, wouldn't I love to see the results of that survey.
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Charlottepaul
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seems to me that even if there were enough people from Detroit to support a new store in the city, that they still wouldn't move there. To me what does not make sense is why would someone from Detroit going to a store in Lincoln Park be any more likely to steal than going to a store within the city of detroit? If there is a group of clientele from Detroit that 'steals', they would steal wherever, not just from the store located in Detroit! So I think that it is no loss for a Meijer to be located within Detroit!!
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Gannon
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they need to steal, they are much less likely to be able to afford a vehicle.

Those that want to steal, to get back at the corporate 'man', will do as you say.

Different folks.
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where is Hall Rd? When in Detroit I try to avoid suburbia as often as possible rarely going north of Southfield if I dont have to so these areas are foreign to me.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Kroger's at Lappin and Gratiot must have been literally "eaten" alive from all the grazers and shop-lifters from the evidence I've seen. Hell, Kroger's management used that store as a training location for their "suits," and still it only was open for such a very short time before they threw in the towel. Meijer's must surely have known about all the BS that went on over there. Why wouldn't they take it over if there was even a glimmer of a prayer of making a profit?

Nah! They do know better and will stay away from Detroit.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 13, 2007)
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Charlottepaul
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

but why? If Detroiters are going to go to the store regardless of where it is, why not put one in Detroit?

(Message edited by charlottepaul on February 13, 2007)
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Croweblack
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think about the amount of tax breaks and other incentives kwame has dangled in front these big box people--they still won't come. ThAT IS BRUTAL

The "shoppers" steal more than they buy. The security costs are crazy, nevermind the constant turnover of employees due to stealing and lying on their applications.

pretty dim
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Fury13
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where is Hall Rd?

Hall Road, Dobry Road, South Boulevard... aka 20 Mile Road.

A good stretch of it in Macomb County is also M-59.
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh okay thanks. That area is 12 miles too north for me.
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Bob
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall Road is M-59 from around Van Dyke to M-3 (Gratiot). Dobry Road is the service drive along along the new section of M-59 freeway they built in the late 90s to bypass Mound Road. M-59 changes to being called Rosso Highway from M-3 past I-94 up the the Selfridge gate.
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Rocket_city
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The little town I grew up in up north doesn't have streets as long as Hall Road is wide. When I first saw this bohemith corridor cresting over the Van Dyke overpass, I about pissed my shorts.

I've grown use to it now, but good grief, that is one messed up monstrosity of planning. I guess it's what you get when you plan one thing (a freeway), but opt to build it in phases, currently leaving the wasteful, massive boulevard of doom.
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1953
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a former Macomb Twp. resident, I love the convenience and drive-ability of Hall Rd. As an urban lover, I hate its suburban sprawl facets.
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Professorscott
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Theft in and of itself is a red herring. Thieves will go to stores wherever they are.

Chain store companies use a really basic demographic to decide where to locate: how many people, with enough money to buy what the store aims to sell, live within a certain distance of a proposed location. Then as they are narrowing down between choices, other things - such as taxes and important city services such as police protection - come into the mix.

Detroit is poor, which gives it one strike right off the bat. Then if a proposed Detroit location makes the "first cut", the high taxes and lack of police service often kill it.

As fairly-well-off young professionals infill the downtown, eventually their numbers are too much to ignore, and you'll see more retail despite everything else.
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Croweblack
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Post Number: 17
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So how many "fairly-well-off young professionals infill the downtown" will it take.

real numbers please.

Not exact just ball park it
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Gistok
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Post Number: 3629
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Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geeze Mackinaw is right... a lot of sprawl loving, Detroit hating noobs just arived....

Hall Rd. is awful, regardless. My mother belongs to a senior citizens group at 16 Mile/Utica Rd. And all the seniors will not take Hall Rd. because it is extremely intimidating for them. One needs to be on ones toes constantly on that road. And for the seniors, it plays havoc on their slightly slower response times.

Regardless of the sprawl, Hall Rd. is just shy of an amusment park bumper car ride.
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
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Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 44
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I use Hall Road every single day to-and-from work and school, and I can't say anything but good things about it.

I was young, but I remember when Hall Road was only 2 lanes in each direction. My father worked for John Carlo at the time, and there are drawn plans for converting M-59 into a depressed freeway which would be the reason why the median is so wide, turning the surface into the service drive.

The way M-59 exists today is efficient, and I can make it from home (22/Hayes) to work at Lakeside...which means parked and clocked in...in 10 minutes or less at any time of the day. The Michigan lefts eliminate a lot of time for traffic signals, and the traffic signals that do exist...are timed with each other. The 4 lane in each direction configuration is basically the only way this could have been done efficiently...and has catered to the growth and development of Macomb County, that of which it's proud of.

Intimidating? Once you get the hang of it, it's very simple. If Hall Road is "intimidating", Have you ever been on 696? How about 8 mile? Gratiot? And it's certainly not any harder than trying to navigate downtown, god forbid I say that.

Although it's no Detroit, but it's certainly positive for our ever-ailing economy. Lakeside Mall still boasts the title as second largest regional shopping mall in the state, which draws tourists to the area (may I remind everyone that in Detroit's tourism campaign, the Hall Road corridor is one of the areas of attraction)...and whomever mentioned that the schools weren't great should check out Utica Community Schools MEAP scores and Graduation rates, rendering it one of the most prestigious and highest ranking districts in the State, that of which M-59 runs right through.

Shelby Township and Sterling Heights are working comprehensively to maintain the cityscape-type feel in the newer centers, such as Shelby Town Center, directly across from Lakeside Mall, which has recently installed fountains and maintains streetscape landscaping, benches and walking paths.

Lakeside Boulevard, located between M-59 and 21 mile, also has recently built loft-type homes with businesses on the ground floor, which are operating successfully. And Taubmann's new center at Partridge Creek will certainly attract media attention and continued tourism, not just to Macomb, but to the Tri-County area.

I am a bit biased because I have lived here all my life, and have seen the changes in the area, but don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in the City. However, I don't believe that sprawl from the city core is always all that bad.
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Mackinaw
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Post Number: 2420
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 2:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You illustrate the good things about it. Like I and others have said, this good has resulted from the state's investment in sprawl. I did not endorse this usage of my tax dollars, though (do we ever have a choice, though?), and at the very least I would like to see the infrastructure pot split with the inner cities across the state, but we see none of this. So I'm glad you can reap the benefits of this state spending (I'm not being sarcastic), but it does nothing for me and a few million of my friends around metro Detroit who do not go to central Macomb and Oakland county regularly.

Regarding your last point, it's true that its not that bad IF the inner city is basically HEALTHY, and IF there is a REASON to sprawl. We have no reason to sprawl, because unlike New York and Chicago, we have tons of room in the inner city, and we also have a decayed and unhealthy (economically) downtown that could use some of the retail that is now concentrated in exurbia. Chicago and NY have justified sprawl, and they have both expansive exurbia and great downtowns. We don't have that balance, so in metro Detroit's case, I conclude that sprawl IS all that bad.


Thanks Eastsidedog.
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Chitaku
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Post Number: 1147
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I lived on Hall for 10 years, Went to Dakota High. That area is the epitome of Sprawl. It would take me 25 minutes to go from garfield to Romeo Plank on Hall during Rush hour. The distance is not even a mile
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 574
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 5:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

As others have said, metro Detroit is playing a zero-sum game because our regional economy is not growing and our regional population is not growing.... A new house in Macomb Township or Novi means another abandoned house in Detroit.



I'll repeat it again, it is not a true "zero sum game". Looking at the SEMCOG demographic figures, at least half of the regional household growth can be attributed to the steadily decreasing average household size, which leaves no abandoned housing in its wake.
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Jfre66_77
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Username: Jfre66_77

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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sprawl is not a root problem. Sprawl is a symptom.

Many people choose to live in suburbia for many reasons. Crime, property tax rates, no city income tax, schools, proximity to their workplace, etc.
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Queensfinest
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Username: Queensfinest

Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How many lanes is Hall Road at it's widest? Anyone have any recent pictures? I get nothing from an online search...
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2149
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Regarding your last point, it's true that its not that bad IF the inner city is basically HEALTHY, and IF there is a REASON to sprawl. We have no reason to sprawl, because unlike New York and Chicago, we have tons of room in the inner city, and we also have a decayed and unhealthy (economically) downtown that could use some of the retail that is now concentrated in exurbia. Chicago and NY have justified sprawl, and they have both expansive exurbia and great downtowns. We don't have that balance, so in metro Detroit's case, I conclude that sprawl IS all that bad.



There is no reason to EVER develop land faster than the population is growing. I don't care where the hell you are. There's also never a reason to build an infrastructure with a negative return on investment.
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Jfried
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Post Number: 933
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You people seriously kill me -

Gistok - why does it have to be so black & white? just because someone doesn't hate sprawl, doesn't mean they automatically hate Detroit. Many people don't even know what sprawl is, they are just concerned with having what they consider a nice house, good schools, and convenient shopping and recreation. Can you really blame them?

Rjlj - nice comment about "uncultured sheep." Just because there are not many cultural amenities along the M.59 Corridor (there is the Macomb Center for the performing arts & a few others) doesn't mean these people sit around drinking bud light and watching nascar all day. Everyday, Detroit's museums, music halls, and galleries are filled with suburbanites. How often are the buses parked in front of the DIA from the city? You don't have to live a block from Orchestra Hall to support it. Not to mention how many more children in the burbs participate in music, dance, or theatre programs. "Urban culture" isn't the only culture out there.

Mackinaw - I agree with many of your points, but what you fail to recognize is that it's not just the planners, legislature, or other governmental officials that are making these decisions. The people in those positions are only instruments of the will of the people. if the people of the state are not educated regarding sustainable growth they will never demand that it be implemented. Planners/government officials/the legislature can't just do what they want, or what they know is right if it is not supported by the people - they would all be out of jobs very quickly. The problem is that most people here are conditioned to think that any development is good development. Most people here desire a new suv, and a brand new 2800 sq ft split level brick home, and they want that home in a subdivision near the amenities that are offered along hall road. Most people just don't understand the consequences of this type of development. The programs that governments implement will never change until it is demanded by the market and the people. I guess my point is that there needs to be much more awareness and education. That is starting to happen, the work of the Michigan Suburbs Alliance, the MLUI, The Detroit Regional Chamber, One D and many other organizations are making huge changes in the attitude, and operations of our region. In addition you see these matters addressed by the media much more often lately, but we still have along way to go.

The other flaw I see in Mackinaw's argument is that is just doesn't take history into account. Yes, until Granholm's recent "fix it first" road program a majority of state funding went to building roads that encouraged/allowed sprawl. However, this is just part of an ongoing cycle. Up until the 1940's/1950's funding went to the major city centers, then it went to inner ring burbs, then the highways, then the suburbs, then the exurbs. Do you think the farmers in the U.P. were happy about funding the paving of Woodward in 1916? Probably not, but it was part of building our community. Unfortunately, we each can't reap the benefits of every single tax dollar we spend.

Don’t get me wrong, I grew up south of Hall Road and I can’t stand it either. But the point is not everyone is an urbanist, and until more people are educated about the true effects of they way we are developing our land, we will continue to build more Hall, Ford, and Telegraph roads.
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Gcalan
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Username: Gcalan

Post Number: 3
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

===
quote:

"If MI is doing so bad it sure as hell doesnt show on Hall Road. The thing is that people who live out there bitch about it a lot. So why the fark did you move there? The schools arent superb and the houses arent special."
===

I live 2 blocks off of Hall Rd. in historic Utica. I had lived in detroit for over 30 years. Wouldn't move back for any price. My house was built in 1870 and has tons more character and history than 90% of anything in Detroit. I also have an acre of hilly, wooded backyard. Oh, and Utica schools are some of the best in the state. Get your facts straight!

(Message edited by gcalan on February 14, 2007)
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 450
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Hall Road" is a triumph of sophisticated, practical, non-ivory-tower urban planning.

Practical zoning laws have resulted in a gigantic economic engine for the region.

The road itself in one of the best engineered and maintained ones in the region. I've never driven it during rush hour but as rush hours go it is probably better than most.

The "Hall Road" concept as it has developed is light years ahead of similar roads such as Rochester and Orchard Lake Roads in Oakland County.

A major success story.

Would the landowners/store owners/ businesses and shopping deprived residents along Woodward from downtown to 8 Mile wish Woodward was like Hall Road? Hell yes.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2151
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"Hall Road" is a triumph of sophisticated, practical, non-ivory-tower urban planning.



No, it's carbon-copied out of the zoning regulations that just about every other locality in the U.S. owns. It's only goal is to move as many cars as quickly as possible.

quote:

Practical zoning laws have resulted in a gigantic economic engine for the region.



Only because the money has been diverted and relocated from other points in the region.

quote:

The road itself in one of the best engineered and maintained ones in the region. I've never driven it during rush hour but as rush hours go it is probably better than most.



The engineering is done by people whose only goal is to move as many cars as quickly as possible. Again, it's very formulaic, with little independent judgment involved. The engineers pay no attention to context, scale, or anything else. Just cars. In the long-term, you can expect massive congestion. To me, "probably" indicates that you're just guessing.

quote:

The "Hall Road" concept as it has developed is light years ahead of similar roads such as Rochester and Orchard Lake Roads in Oakland County.



Or sixty years behind, depending on your point of view.

quote:

A major success story.



For the big box stores, who didn't have to pay a cent for the massive infrastructure they required. Not so much for farmers who were forced to sell their land.

quote:

Would the landowners/store owners/ businesses and shopping deprived residents along Woodward from downtown to 8 Mile wish Woodward was like Hall Road? Hell yes.



Who did you ask???
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2426
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jfried, I totally understand the fact that the majority of the Michigan middle class is in suburbia, and a huge proportion of those live in sprawling settings. I know that they have sets of demands, and that the demand to sprawl is definitly there. This is why our mindset is wrong from the bottom up, from middle Michigan to the government. I think my posts on another thread about how driving a car anywhere and everywhere is the central pillar of middle class Michiganders speaks to this sad reality.

(Message edited by mackinaw on February 14, 2007)
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3rdworldcity
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Post Number: 452
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danindc: You are clueless. My reference to "ivory tower" folks refers to people like you. Have you ever driven Hall Road or any of the others mentioned?

"Its only goal is to move as many cars as quickly as possible." DUH. Does a pretty good job of it, doesn't it.

"To me, it just formulaic, with little independant judgement involved. blah blah blah."
Spoken like a true no-experience academic. What the hell is your statement meant to say? In English please.

"The engineers pay no attention to context, scale or anything else. Yadda yadda yadda." I guess those engineers don't know as much about it as you do, having gone to inferior colleges and grad schools, right?

"In the long term, expect massive congestion..." Hell, there's massive congestion there now at times during the day. Ever been to Manhattan? Trust me, never go or you'll stroke out.

As for your ridiculous statement that big box stores (a minority of the stores along the route) don't pay their share of infrastructure costs, it's further evidence you don't know what you're talking about. God forbid you'd ever have to pay their real estate taxes.

And, you feel sorry for the poor farmers who sold their land? What planet are you from? Those folks sold their land for multiples of what was was worth as farmland. I didn't hear any land was taken at gunpoint. Or by condemnation. Those poor farmers had to retire to Florida and now can't enjoy our MI winters.

Dan, I take it you live in D.C. It figures.

(Message edited by 3rdworldcity on February 14, 2007)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 459
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Moves cars as quickly as possible? I beg to differ. I've been on there during rush hour and a few times not during rush hour and it has been a bottleneck. Try doing driving school on that road. It is really annoying.

As for the congestion part: Expect it to only get worse, thanks to the sewer lines the county is building out there and into the middle of nowhere. That road will be a pain in the ass 24/7 in about 3 years if everything keeps going the way it has (in terms of new subdivision building).

Oh, and don't give me the Manhattan crap. Plenty of cities are like that. Look at DC, they've got the beltway. Ever been stuck on that? On a tour bus? It's not fun.
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Danindc
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Post Number: 2153
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdworldcity, do you actually have evidence of any of your claims, or are you just making shit up? Someone must have pissed in your Cheerios this morning. It's not my problem if you can't read.

Yes, I've driven Hall Road, and I've been to Manhattan several times. Manhattan (or DC, Chicago, Boston) are far easier to get around, since you're not stuck stewing in traffic surrounded by nothing but cars and shitty looking disposable buildings.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 181
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, the fact we drive everywhere is one of the reasons Detroit is the first or second "fattest" places in America. We build nonwalkable places, like the entire Hall Road corridor, and then since we built our communities that way, we don't walk.

People are people everywhere, and most people don't prefer to live that way. People rue the loss of our downtown cities, and the way things were. Things are how they are because of clueless government people and planning people, who since the 1930s have considered it their main purpose in life to make sure our infrastructure is built to accommodate automobile traffic without regard to anything else.

Most regions have abandoned this way of thinking and have settled on a more blended approach, but in Detroit we are way behind, which is one of the reasons modern businesses don't locate here: we aren't modern.

We have built an outmoded 1960s-style region, so we are forced to live with the endless decay of our outmoded 1960s-style economy.

Hall Road is practically a textbook example of bad planning and design. Architecture and urban-planning schools around the world ought to be sending their students to this quaint little town-line road so they can learn how badly it is possible to f up a community.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4044
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotta agree with DanDC...Hall Road is much harder to drive on than anywhere in NY or DC.
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Scs100
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Post Number: 461
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Patrick and Dan. The only problem with NY in my opinion is that some of the streets are incredibly narrow.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2154
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Yup, but all the more reason to slow down! (you should be walking or on the subway, anyway!)
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 576
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The only problem with NY in my opinion is that some of the streets are incredibly narrow.



That's called "traffic calming" in newspeak and it discourages automobile usage. You are supposed to respond accordingly, whether you like it or not. After all, the planning people know what is best for us all and your opinion doesn't matter.
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 2523
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit would love to have any Hall Road type of traffic.

MS lured me down to Cobo yesterday into attending their day-long launch of Vista and Office 2007 with free copies of Vista and Office Professional 2007, along with a t-shirt, two "meals," and other freebies. After getting off the Vernor 49 bus and walking the last two blocks, I did a silly, unnecessary thing--looking both ways before crossing a couple of once-busy streets. Mind you, it was 7:30 AM, normally a very busy time downtown in any major economic business center.

Well, there were not any vehicles nearby on any of those streets at those times I was at those crossings, so I totally disregarded whatever directives the WALK lights suggested and crossed the streets at will against the red lights.
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Scs100
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Post Number: 463
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I support that whole heartedly. My problem at the time was that I was on a tour bus and we had a hard time turning onto one of those streets. Dan, if I had had my way, I would have been on the subway, but with 40 high schoolers, it's not a good idea to try that.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 183
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg,

The streets aren't narrow in NY because of intentional traffic calming. That's a modern invention, and is normally used where pedestrian use is expected, like near schools and where people are walking in a shopping district.

Traffic calming is not meant to discourage automobile use, just to slow the cars down for safety reasons.

The streets in NY are narrow because they have to fit between the buildings, many of which were constructed a great many years ago :-)

That "the planning people know what is best for us all and your opinion doesn't matter" is what leads to monstrosities such as Hall Road.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 184
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY,

What streets were you on, if I may ask? I'm downtown now and then, and rarely see streets deserted. You want that, go to a real economic-powerhouse-of-the-19t h-Century town like Schenectady NY.

You pointed out another thing I love about the D compared to places like Noo Yawk: I don't know anyone who's every been ticketed for jaywalking here, and I've lived around here going on 30 years.

Cheers,
Professor Scott
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2155
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

That's called "traffic calming" in newspeak and it discourages automobile usage. You are supposed to respond accordingly, whether you like it or not. After all, the planning people know what is best for us all and your opinion doesn't matter.



Kinda how you're expected to drive everywhere in SE Michigan, huh? At least on a narrow urban street, you have the option of driving, bus, bicycle, walking, subway, cab, rickshaw, roller skates, or whatever your heart desires.

Get out of your car and start living already.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2427
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with your last point, Danindc. Car culture and the ability to drive everywhere is anything but a quality of life indicator. If we think the streets in NYC are narrow, check out old cities across Europe and the middle east. And its not just because they were built before cars (see Tel Aviv, founded in 1909 as a "suburb" of Jaffa--incredible density), its because they have high concentrations of people in one place that they all decide is a good place to live. They can do most of their shopping and achieve most of their daily needs in their neighborhood, on foot. Places like this in the USA are all too sparse.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 60
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate Hall road because it increases health care costs. If there were more WALKable communities (like that of NYC) there would be less fat people, less diabities, less cancer, and less heart disease, thus decreasing health care costs and possibly saving jobs! That is why I hate hall road.

The End
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2428
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are exactly right and credible studies back this up. By focusing so many cars in one spot, such roads also create air pollution that can be worse than that of the inner city.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 573
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Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My understanding was originally they planned an expressway through the hall road corridor.. NOW.. if you notice they median in hall road is HUGE!!! It could support a freeway VERY easily... That's why they made it soo huge... get ready for a true M-59..
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 188
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Digitaldom, while you are correct that the original plan was for an expressway, the expressway will never happen. The communities in the corridor wanted a boulevard, so what you see is what you get.

This is not the first time a planned expressway never came to fruition in Detroit. Have you ever wondered why the M-53 freeway peters out at 18 1/2 Mile Road? Well, originally MDOT planned an expressway from northern Macomb County to connect to I-96 toward western Wayne County using what is now the M-53 freeway then continuing south along Mound Road to Davison and west on Davison to I-96.

That is why the Mound-696 interchange and the 96-Davison interchange were built the way they were. They were intended to be freeway-to-freeway connections, but aren't and never will be.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 454
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danindc: I'll ignore your insult re: my reading ability. Whatever point you were trying to make.

However, I cannot ignore your specious comments re: traffic in other cities compared to Detroit's, and Hall Rd in particular.

The last time I was in San Francisco, my wife and I arrived about 2:30 in the afternoon and had to drive across the Golden Gate up along the coast. It took 22 minutes to get out of the airport alone and onto the expressway. After an hour when we'd traveled maybe 10 miles I told my wife I was turning the f---ing car around and we were going back to the airport. (If she wasn't armed and dangerous I would have.)

It's clear that you've not been to any of the cities you compare to Detroit

I'm in Chicago about twice a month. Their "rush hour" exists during most of the daylight hours, including weekends. And.. Chicago has a top notch public transportation system. The traffic reports are delivered in terms of hours starting in mid-afternoon; for example "From the Loop to Cicero, 1 hour and 17 minutes" etc

I was in Boston a couple of months ago and it took 2 hours to get to the airport on a Sunday morning...about 16 miles from my hotel.

Try driving 30 miles into Atlanta (about my commute from Bloomfield to downtown Detroit) on a weekday morning, leaving at 6 A.M. You're lucky to make it in an hour and forty five minutes on a clear day in Summer.

I used to build condos, several in Manassas Virginia, about 30-35 miles from downtown Washington. The homebound commute is 2 HOURS. God knows how long it takes in the morning driving into the sun.

Your comment about Manhattan being more driveable than Detroit is pathetic. You've never been there, it's clear.

Anyone who has driven in the cities you mention knows you're full of s--- and haven't got the slightest idea of what you're taking about. You're the most amateurish, inexperienced kind of con artist, thinking you're so persuasive that people will naturally believe whatever it is you're talking about. Think again.

Hall Rd. is a piece of cake compared to the cities you cite. And, I don't believe you've ever driven Hall Rd. and you've probably never even been to Detroit. (You aren't some kind of "research assistant" to a congressional aide are you? Probably are.)

Try again, sport.
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Futurecity
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Post Number: 481
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^"Chicago has a top notch public transportation system."

Bull shit. Chicago has a slow, inefficient, barley acceptable public transit system. It's just way better than the embarrassment that we have here.

And Hall Road is a fucking curse that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Like shit coming out of a whale's ass, it's sickening and never-ending. I want to stab myself in the fucking head every time I'm forced to drive down it.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 466
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdWorldCity:

People in Chicago can't drive for their lives. My sister, who lives there, says that almost every day. Maybe that would explain all of the delays.

As for their transportation system, Futurecity ,nailed that one, almost. I think that that might have been overstated just a little bit (although the bus system is terrible). The trains do run often enough that it is fairly easy to catch one. However, once inside, I feel like I'm going to be deaf in 5 sec. They really need to soundproof the cars. Thank god they are rebuilding part of the Red Line out by Wrigley Field.

And if you have truly built subdivisions in Manassas, thanks for killing our national battlefields. You have killed a piece of history.
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3rdworldcity
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Post Number: 455
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Futurecity: Pretty colorful comment. Now don't do anything as rash as you say you feel like doing in the last sentence of your post. (I hope you didn't give Danindc an idea to off himself in the same manner.)

How can you be critical of Chicago's public transportation
system? It has trains and big buses, all the things you guys seem to prize so highly. It's inexpensive. Everything seems to run on time. 1000's of people use public transportation in Chi every day.

Does anything ever satisfy you people? Does anyone do anything to suit you guys?

If there was a newly discovered planet named "Utopia" would y'all go there? Probably wouldn't be happy there either.
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Scs100
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Post Number: 468
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you read my post? The buses there suck! I've waited for one of their buses for longer amounts of time than I have here on a normal day. No one criticized the trains.
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Jt1
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Post Number: 8319
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If there was a newly discovered planet named "Utopia" would y'all go there?



What kind of beer do they serve?
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 469
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL! Can't live w/out the beer. :-)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2547
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Love or hate it, Hall Road is busy because a helluva lot of people live and work there. Detroit's traffic jams are minor compared to some busy cities. Drivers could take other nearby thoroughfares, if need be in order to avoid Hall Road.

As I mentioned before, the city of Detroit would gladly welcome such occurrences of Hall Road downtown it once had eons ago. Detroit peaked in its boom days probably near 1928--almost eighty years ago. And dreamers continually expect its resurrection, whereas sensible folk realized that those days came and went--never to return, especially with its current populace with their mindsets and all.

Get over it, New Urbanists. A city needs jobs first in order to be viable, and being busy means increased traffic congestion. Detroit has to be one of the safest cities for downtown pedestrians, primarily due to its lack of cars, cabs, and trucks--symbols lacking here of a vibrant downtown economy.
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Scs100
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you almost completely LY on what you just said. The one thing I disagree with is that we need a Hall Road downtown. While we need something like it, we probably don't need a road that wide down there. Something the size of Michigan Ave. would probably do it, at least in my opinion. We just need the businesses and the traffic, not the width and the very wide median.
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 582
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall Road's width and very wide median is an artifact of the original plans for M-59 which called for it to be an expressway all the way from I-75 to I-94. Those plans were abandoned due to the objections raised by the City of Utica, which claimed that it would decimate their downtown area. Coincidently, the mayor at the time also owned the building on Hall Rd. near Van Dyke which housed his insurance agency. After several years of negotiations (during which right-of way acquisition continued east of Utica), MDOT changed their plans and M-59 was designed as a surface boulevard eastward from a point just west of Van Dyke.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 456
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scs100: Manassas. Took over a distressed 38 unit project and completed construction. Started 38 more units and sold for a good profit in a rising market. Time: mid-80's, well before development in the area of the historic sites. Personally, I'd never have developed anything close to such a historic site. (Unless, of course....)


Jt1: What kind of beer? You'd take ice water and put in a little pill. Result: Vitamin enriched brew, no cal, no carbs, no alcohol but w/ a herbal ingredient that produces the effect of alcohol w/o the hangover; creates a very mellow feeling which doesn't make one sleepy but enhances one's ability to drive cars and heavy equipment. Drinking a six pack a day would be a sure-fire cancer prevention agent and it would beat out Earth beer in every taste test every time. A nickel a pill. They don't call it planet Utopia for nothing. Nuff said?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2549
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

LY,

What streets were you on, if I may ask? I'm downtown now and then, and rarely see streets deserted.


Got off the bus at Cass and Lafayette. Crossed Cass--no traffic in sight. Walked down and crossed Fort Street--still no traffic and walked against the red light. Walked another block and crossed Congress. Another red light--and you guessed it no traffic either direction, same as the other two crossings. Walked into Cobo Hall.

Had I been tapping a white cane on that journey, I could have done a Mister Magoo and never heard any cars' brakes being applied.

Returning at 3:40PM was a repeat of the 7:30AM trek. The only traffic that time were occasional buses. Maybe, Scott, you were in a different Detroit MI than I when you notice its downtown being busy...

And I had to walk those three blocks to the Vernor bus and from the bus to Cobo. Where was ***my*** rapid-transit train when I needed it--NOT?

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 15, 2007)
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 192
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Parts of downtown are busy, LY, though obviously not the areas you were in. Not busy at all though compared to other big-city downtowns, I'll concede.

Incidentally Detroit is one of the least safe cities for pedestrians. The study I got that factoid from didn't try to determine why, it was just looking at empirical data. I suspect part of the reason is we walk so little that motorists don't expect to see a person on foot.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2550
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I suspect part of the reason is we walk so little that motorists don't expect to see a person on foot.


Some "residents" there are probably bums who don't know that an occasional bus might be coming.

There was such a case of one Madison's homeless whack-jobs telling pedestrians nearby that he was invisible and set out to prove it to them when he stepped from the sidewalk on State Street two blocks from the Capitol and "dared" the oncoming bus to pass through him. Bad plan... Massive head wound and zero blood left after he was scraped off the bus.

Another likelihood of having pedestrians getting hit in Detroit is that there are so few vehicles that the pedestrians rarely look anymore.

All those historical downtown pix on DY from the pre-1950s all seem to always have a fairly high level of both vehicular and pedestrian traffic--rare today.
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
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Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 46
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to laugh when I read the outrageous posts here. A curse you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy? Please...its a ROAD for god sake...

Its not that bad. I drive the busiest part of it EVERY day, several times, at it's widest..which obviously almost none of you can claim, only the once or twice you've had a bad experience. As a commuter in the Sterling Heights/Macomb area, I enjoy the ease of Hall Rd/M-59 and its effectiveness of routing traffic quickly.

The point that it is a result of sprawl is another argument, but generally, the Hall Road corridor is something that the Metro Detroit area can brag about...because it is one of the handful of concentrated areas in the region inevitably moving in a positive direction.
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 110
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why do you consider moving from farmland to big-box retail and strip malls a "positive direction"? That's about the worst kind of progress I can imagine.
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
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Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 47
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Money is progress, and if you haven't been here in a while, I suggest you pay a visit.

I forgot that the agricultural market demand around here was so high.
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Scottr
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Username: Scottr

Post Number: 258
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

this country is in a sad state if the only definition of progress is money. why don't we just pave over the midwest and put up strip malls? hell, we don't need food! we'll just import it all, right? we're continually destroying some of the best farmland in the world, and one day, it will come back to haunt us.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 482
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"why don't we just pave over the midwest and put up strip malls?"

We are.

And the CarHeads are loving it.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2555
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of the best farm land in Detroit was Black Bottom--that area got its name from its soil in the 1800s.

Let's plant crops there again, and have the people live where they want--away from Detroit in Macomb and Oakland Counties.
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Scottr
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Username: Scottr

Post Number: 260
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

futurecity - my point exactly.

for my geography class last semester, we watched a video concerning sprawl around chicago. the farmers were showing the soil, and telling how it had taken millions of years to become the rich, fertile soil it is today, yet it was being sold off for subdivisions and retail developments, destroying the characteristics that made it so fertile. It can't be brought back just by tearing everything down and planting crops. once it's gone, it's gone.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 584
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Why do you consider moving from farmland to big-box retail and strip malls a "positive direction"? That's about the worst kind of progress I can imagine.



Without progress, we would still be scraping horseshit off our streets and eating a diet that was dependent on what and when local farmers could grow and bring to market in their horse-drawn wagons. Is that how you would rather us all live?

Improvements in agricultural science and transportation had made the small farm economically obsolete by the 1950's and unfortunately the tri-county area had mostly small farms (usually 80 acres or less). From the 1960's on, subdivisions in the metro Detroit area were being created mostly from land that had not been worked in years.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 193
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY,

I forget his name, but there is a gentleman who works with Gleaners Food Bank who maintains several gardens in the Eastern Market area, and has told me the soil is still very good and he gets good results growing food crops.

So part of what you said is actually happening :-)

Mikeg, lots of large family forms have been forcibly closed because of Michigan's tax laws. If I am farming six hunred acres, and the farmer next door sells his land to Pulte (say) for a new subdivision, my taxes shoot up and I am often forced to sell out or lose my land.

Subdivisions in northern Macomb County are being created, mostly, from land that was worked last season.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2158
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdworldcity, you make reasonable points above. I did not ever claim that New York was more DRIVEABLE than Detroit. You are the one who thinks of mobility only in terms of driving a personal automobile.

And the commute from Manassas to DC is shorter than 2 hours if you take the train. If someone chooses to live out there, why should I feel sorry they have such a long commute?
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 587
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see that Professorscott disagrees with my statement that, "From the 1960's on, subdivisions in the metro Detroit area were being created mostly from land that had not been worked in years."

He insists that, "Subdivisions in northern Macomb County are being created, mostly, from land that was worked last season.".

Note that we both used the qualifier "mostly", and that he further qualified his statement by adding "northern Macomb county".

I'm sure that he can find an instance or two where a sod farm or pumpkin patch has recently gone directly to being subdivided, however the fact remains that by the 1960's, there were very few areas of Macomb County where there was more than 50% of the land being farmed. [source: "Emergence and Growth of an Urban Region - the Developing Urban Detroit Area, Volume 1: Analysis"; The Detroit Edison Company, 1966]

SE Michigan Percent of Land in Farms - 1959

1959


SE Michigan Land Suitability for Agricultural Use

suitability


SE Michigan Generalized Land Use - 1962

1962
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2162
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

the fact remains that by the 1960's, there were very few areas of Macomb County where there was more than 50% of the land being farmed.



What does this mean, and what point are you using it to make? Is it possible that less land is farmed the more you build upon it? In other words, your argument seems circular--what's your cause and effect?
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 588
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My point is that everyone on this board seems to think that productive farms were being paved over to create subdivisions and commercial strips, when in fact, most of the land in the suburbs was of medium or less value for general farming. Furthermore, the 1959 graphic shows large areas that were still years away from being developed which were already covered by the three reddish bands, indicating "<25%", "25 to 44.9%" and "45% to 64.9%".
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 104
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have watched countless acres develop around me in Chesterfield. I would say that easily 3/4 are developed on light growth parcels. By that I mean that vegetation has started to grow back since it was not being farmed for at least 10 years. Some more than that. In fact MAcomb county has more forested land today than the 1950's due to the fact that alot of the forest land was farms in the old days. All over North MAcomb and Saint Clair are fields and small growth parcels that were farmed before and no longer are. The demand is not here for it. I would still of course choose natural growth to any development anyday. I just dont think farming works the way it used to most of the large farms north of here are corporate. The days of the family farm are long gone. As I have said before look at the Wayne aerials and compare rural areas from the past and today. Where there were farms then are now young forests and fields. I agree that it is a shame that we have wasted countless acres of land that was and still is excellent farming land. I also agree that most of us would hate to see the periphery developed even if there was population growth in the region. There is NO excuse for it at the pace it was in the late nineties because of the small population growth compared to the housing construction numbers.
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Fareastsider
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Post Number: 105
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yea and another thing all of us here north of Hall road arnt latte sipping wishing we were rich consumer maniacs that get hard ons driving our cars. My family has been out here for 70 years and we do not drive long commutes. My parents worked out side of Mount Clemens and did not have 35 mile commutes. There jobs were always located there. I know that alot of people out here do live very far from their employment.
If the people in the city dont want people to call all Detroiters murderous slummy system abusing bums then dont refer to us out here as brainless fools loving our endless parking lots and cul de sacs. I know that most of us who lived out here pre nineties hate the development as much as anybody. In Chesterfield there has been many protests to many developments and even citizen groups dedicated to preserving land and slowing development. Often the townships leaders are to dumb or persuaded by developers for "tax revenues" ( Even Las Vegas' Mayor says growth does not mean extra money it is more problems) A lot of times developers come out to these hill billy townships where the governing board is just a bunch of locals who know NOTHING about the bigger picture. I have been to meetings in IRa, Casco, and Lenox and trust me us on this board are more qualified to run townships than some out here. I know that the Township of Chesterfield seems to ignore its residents wants. I am also sick of these north Macomb townships accepting growth and talking of the "benefits" and "progress". I swear every time I read an article on growth in the paper they ask a resident about it and they always say "well this is progress and you cant stop it" and the officials say " this will benefit the community with the extra tax revenues and they will be real nice homes" try it out when you read an article on development. Thank You for reading my rant!!!
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 34
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One area that needs to stay agricultural is the Romeo orchard area. That area could use the type of protections used in the Traverse City Old Mission Peninsula.
Sorry for threadjack.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 844
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fareastsider makes a good point. For better or worse, there will always be suburbs and sprawl as long as there are job centers in the suburbs. Many people that live in the burbs do not commute downtown. Should downtown still be the center of jobs? Probably. But it's not. Even cities where the largest job center is in the downtown (NY, CHI, etc) there are still large job centers in the suburbs, near and far.

Chicken and the egg argument? Possibly. But that doesn't make it any less a reality.
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Scs100
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Post Number: 475
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, 3rdworldcity. I just hate it when people build on historic sites. Virginia is now a wreck thanks to that. At least you aren't one of the people building over there now.
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Goose
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Username: Goose

Post Number: 32
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

didnt read all 150 posts but i hear this all the time

Hall Rd. WAS the 8 Mile Rd. for the 80's and 90's, whitey had to move north of Hall Rd. to escape whatever he was looking to not be near....

now I am hearing 26 Mile Rd. is the new 8 Mile Rd......

huh???
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Fareastsider
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Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I meant that 8 Mile road was a large boulevard with alot of development along it in the 1950's similar to Hall Road today. I meant nothing about race.
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Rbdetsport
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Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 220
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live north of hall road, and go to school south of hall road. They call all of us the rich kids. Far from it.
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
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Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where do you go Rbdet?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 997
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MikeG has the Doxiodius study out!!!! :-)
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 603
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You got it!

That study was a joint research project that began in Jan. 1965 at the instigation of Walker Cisler, then Chairman of the Board of Detroit Edison. He contacted Constantinos Doxiadis (President of Doxiadis Associates, Athens, Greece), who was an old friend dating back to their days working together under the Marshall Plan in 1948. He also contacted Clarence Hilberry, President of Wayne State University and invited their parrticipation.

Cisler proposed a "five-year comprehensive study of Detroit and the adjacent area under its direct influence for the purpose of ananyzing, understanding and exploring its growth patterns, potentialities and future requirements."

It was his intention that the study results would prove useful for guiding his company and local planning authorities in the years to come.

Volume I (Analysis) came out in 1966, Volume II (Concepts for Future Development) in 1967 and the final Volume III (Future Alternatives) was published in 1970.

My wife saw the three-volume set at the 1988 AAUW Used Book Sale at Oakland Mall. She paid $2.50 for all three books, knowing that as a former planning commissioner, I would probably be interested in reading it. She was right, as usual.

(Message edited by Mikeg on February 19, 2007)
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Ladyinabag
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Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't drive it on Saturday. Especially in the summer. All of that retail. Every farmer and his wife is in from Almont. No way. Take Van Dyke south to Riverland, left to Clinton River Rd. right to 19 Mile. Left to Romeo Plank. Right to when it turns into Cass. Straight through Mt. Clemens to Gratiot. Go from there.
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Ladyinabag
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Post Number: 7
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Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't drive it on Saturday. Especially in the summer. All of that retail. Every farmer and his wife is in from Almont. No way. Take Van Dyke south to Riverland, left to Clinton River Rd. right to 19 Mile. Left to Romeo Plank. Right to when it turns into Cass. Straight through Mt. Clemens to Gratiot. Go from there....and you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him catch fish.
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Chitaku
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Post Number: 1218
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rdet you go to Chippewa Valley? I went to Dakota.
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Rbdetsport
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Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 242
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Henry Ford II. When did you graduate? Yea, I hate Dakota, but I know alot of kids from there. My cousins graduated in 2000 and 2003. U can't blame me, they are our third most important rivals. Stevenson then Ike then Dakota. As you can tell I play baseball and football. LOL!

(Message edited by Rbdetsport on March 02, 2007)
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Rbdetsport
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Post Number: 243
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Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I actually live a lot closer to Dakota and Utica than HFII, but w/e. I love it at Ford.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was an ariel picture I saw of Hall rd. and Schoenherr. It looks a lot like 8 Mile rd. and Greenfield during the 50s and 60s.
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Chitaku
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Post Number: 1220
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I graduated in 2000 along with another member on the board. What's your cousins name?
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$2.50???? what a bargain! lucky you I wish I had that.
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Swbaby12345
Member
Username: Swbaby12345

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

chit- what's your name..class of 01 here
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Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1221
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 2:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I shant reveal my name but my initials are CN look in the yearbook i have a buzzcut. who are you, I'm sure I know you I knew everyone.
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
Member
Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rbdetsport who are you? I go to Ford II too...crazy...
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Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 244
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My cousins name is Matt Wright. I am a sophomore at Ford. My initials are RB. Look it up in the year book. What are your initials? I love it how everyone on this board is a lot closer than we think.

(Message edited by Rbdetsport on March 03, 2007)
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Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1224
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know matt well, bought him many Big Boy breakfasts
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Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 245
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats really funny. I am pretty close with them. I dont think he would be mad I said his name on the internet. Hope not. Have you seen him lately?
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Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1225
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no i haven't been over there in a while
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
Member
Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My email address is Mcwalbucksnfitch@comcast.net ... email me
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 57
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WEll, this Forum has went from a Hall road discussion to a High School buddies forum. Could we please go back to the topic???
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
Member
Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 2:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The topic has ended.
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Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 646
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The topic has ended.



You might think so, but that doesn't make it a fact. Your inconsideration for others is annoying.

Most of the adults here expect that when a new post is added, it is on-topic. If we have been following that thread, we click on it only to find that we have wasted our time when someone has high-jacked it.

Either create a separate thread or take your juvenile attitude and posting habits elsewhere.
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Fareastsider
Member
Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 191
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess this is on topic and maybe the high school friends may know these guys....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =F_wLELwDjFU
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Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4116
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember we used to play Dakota HS in golf several times a season. Almost every player on their team had this snotty attitude. They thought they were too good to be playing teams from Warren and SH. My coach shut several of them up and made them look like asses when he told them “look, you guys aren’t rich and neither are your parents…you’re from Shelby Township, unlike the team over there (pointing towards the GP South team).”
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Ladyinabag
Member
Username: Ladyinabag

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fareaster-

What was that????? (LOL)
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 60
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess I'll have to see if I can get the topic deleted then, huh?
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Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 246
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have to relax, Urbanize. Every topic on this forum goes off topic at times, but usually they find their way back. If anything, this thread should eventually join the hall of fame threads.
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Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

there were a lot of jerks at Dakota, glad i moved
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Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr

Post Number: 345
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

off topic is one thing when it can still involve anyone - but this high school reunion is something that belongs on the connections board, not here.
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Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 247
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think we can all agree that there is a lot of snobby people north of hall road, but not everyone is that way. Like me for example, I dont look at Detroit like it is lower than me. I love it and I try to get other people at school to feel the same way, but that doesnt work well. But me loving Detroit does not have any affect on the amount of friends I have or anything. So I guess the people in Clinton Township, Macomb, Shelby, and Sterling Whites arent that bad. I think going into Oakland County is worse. Although I do hate how I get labeled as a rich kid when I live 3 miles north of Ford. It is the fact that I am north of Hall Road. Thats it. The Metro area needs to get rid of these labels for everyone.
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
Member
Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg, I am astounded at how quick you point the finger

My inconsideration for others may be how you regard it, but when there is a connection on an internet messageboard with someone you traffic every day, my natural instinct is to investigate it

I have made fair and contributable posts to this topic, as well as every other topic I've every replied to

And maybe you're the "inconsiderate" one, accusing my actions as being "juvenile", when I am no less of an adult than you are

Maybe you should consider those who swear left and right, and are closed minded to others' opinions...the "juvenile" ones

I apologize that we wasted your time for this "high jacking"
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Waxx
Member
Username: Waxx

Post Number: 82
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, y'all. And I thought the M-39 (Southfield) was terrible. And it used to be a street from 9 mile to I-94 [before my time, obviously (lol)]! M-59 is a little bit of both-no comparison between the two! As a former Macomb County resident AND worker, I'll say that between Van Dyke and Hayes, M-59 is at its worst-and that's even AFTER rush hour! And it's gonna get even more worse when the new mall in CT will be built by next year or later.
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Fareastsider
Member
Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 291
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those of you who never venture north of 8 mile....this may make you never come up here....
Where is my car???
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1764 .jpg
Hall Rd@Schoenherr
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1792 .jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1751 .jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1770 .jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1783 .jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1766 .jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1778 .jpg
at least the area is pedestrian friendly..
http://i141.photobucket.com/al bums/r50/fareastsider/100_1765 .jpg
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Stecks77
Member
Username: Stecks77

Post Number: 310
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God its so beautiful. The sunset of course.
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Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1779
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's something Kafkaesque about photos of Hall Rd. sidewalks. They seem very eager to provide a service unwanted.
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Mcwalbucksnfitch
Member
Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch

Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha, I think I may have seen you taking these photos
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Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1782
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone outside of a vehicle would certainly stand out.
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Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft

Post Number: 1240
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fareastsider,

The family farm is obviously not yet dead, because most of the farmers I buy from at the Royal Oak Farmer's market are from Macomb County.

Support local farmers...

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