Detroitman Member Username: Detroitman
Post Number: 1056 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 7:15 am: | |
Corktown group pushes plan for Tiger Stadium Works with city, sports hall By Sherri Begin http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0305/SUB/70302074 |
Nyct Member Username: Nyct
Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 7:53 am: | |
great news. i hope it happens. other cities can tear down old stadiums. detroit can't. not only is the stadium historic, i don't think detroit can afford another empty space, especially in a developing neighborhood like corktown. |
Scottr Member Username: Scottr
Post Number: 352 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 7:55 am: | |
I hope the feasibility study works out, cause this sounds like a perfect fit. A stadium that needs a reason to exist (well, for some of it to exist) and a hall of fame that needs a home. I don't think I could think of a better use. |
6nois Member Username: 6nois
Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:12 am: | |
I would agree that is would be a wonderful solution. However the time constraints and funding may prevent this dream from coming true. |
Eboyer Member Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:20 am: | |
Are there any renderings for what they plan to do to the stadium? |
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 534 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
I don't see this happening. Not that I don't want to see it happen, but I do not think it is possible under the time restraints. |
Jelk Member Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4237 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:29 am: | |
Don't see it happening eh? This from the same message board that spent three years braying on about Skippers Rule regarding the Book-Cadillac. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 3738 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:35 am: | |
Ah yes, but that was the same Skippers Rule that was used for the Statler and the Madison-Lenox... |
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13
Post Number: 1409 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:37 am: | |
Looks like the stadium group has some capable people involved. I can definitely see it happening. |
Pistonian_revolution Member Username: Pistonian_revolution
Post Number: 78 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:47 am: | |
i'd rather see the mixed use development that was mentioned as possible for that site. i'd love to see a sports hall of fame. but it'd have to be a really good plan. im skeptical about how nice it would look if half the ballpark was stll standing while holding exhibits and plaques in the dugouts and dark hallways of tiger stadium. i love tiger stadium dearly. its just not that attractive of a building, structurally speaking. we should let go of the past, IMO. the tigers dont play there anymore, the place is just rotting. i want to see it torn down and have some smart development put in its place. anyone know what happened to that old mixed use plan for the site that seemed to have so much support? |
Supersport Member Username: Supersport
Post Number: 11378 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:48 am: | |
I'm curious, would the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame be enough of an attraction that vacant lots in Corktown would remain vacant because parking would be needed? I'd hate to see something built there that would justify these vacant lots remaining due to a need for parking. Jelk, Sorry, but more projects in this city fail, or simply fade into the past after being announced to take this as fact, that it's going to happen. While their were a lot of people critical of the BC deal, there were many on here who believed it would happen. Yet all the while, even those working close to the project admitted perhaps a 50-50 chance that it would happen after the Kimberly Clarke deal fell apart. |
Blort Member Username: Blort
Post Number: 37 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 1:53 pm: | |
If they want to raise money so badly, charge 20$ to someone and let them inside to see the damn place before they tear it down. They would raise a LOT of money. |
Christos Member Username: Christos
Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 3:48 pm: | |
I know I have said it on here before, but I will say it again. Tiger Stadium would be PERFECT for a soccer stadium. They could turn part of the upper deck into offices and lofts like they originally planned, take out some of the obstructed view seats, and give Major League Soccer exactly what it wants: soccer specific stadiums with a capacity of 20-25k. One of MLS's issues is that kids love soccer but thier parents dont. Rather than parents taking thier kids to soccer games, kids drag thier parents to soccer games- which hurts attendence a bit. BUT, if there was a soccer team at Tiger Stadium, then parents would LOVE to take thier kids where they went to so many sporting events in thier childhood. Add to that the nearby Mexican and Arab communities, the local Irish population and establishmens, and the bridge nearby with THOUSANDS of soccer-crazy Canadian immigrants and you have a recipe for a sucessful soccer club in Detroit. Plus, the fact that the stadium is enclosed means that it will be LOUD and fun when you pack the place with a bunch of soccer nuts! |
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13
Post Number: 1411 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 4:02 pm: | |
Not a bad idea at all, Christos. |
Lt_tom Member Username: Lt_tom
Post Number: 149 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 4:30 pm: | |
How much does it cost to convert a stadium these days? How much will the michigan sports hall of fame improve the local tax base? Here is whats going on in London with the old Arsenal FC stadium. Its getting redeveloped into flats with the pitch being used as a park. http://www.thestadium-highbury .com/stadium_main.htm |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 447 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 5:39 pm: | |
if a plan like that is good enough for London, it's good enoigh for detroit. |
Schoolcraft Member Username: Schoolcraft
Post Number: 109 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 7:12 pm: | |
Smashing! If they did this in Detroit all me single mates would move there and have birds flying in and out all the time probably. Babe magnet for a crib no doubt. Brilliant. Though soccer field and Hall of Fame great ideas as well. |
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham
Post Number: 135 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 9:08 pm: | |
I wonder what Mike Ilitch thinks of this latest development. |
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 360 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 9:58 pm: | |
While I would never visit the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame, I would not only go on a regular basis but donate to the cause if it were to preserve a piece of Tiger Stadium. |
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob
Post Number: 290 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 4:16 pm: | |
Prices from 325,000 GBP ($628,371)! I wish we had a market for 700 residential units at that price. |
Jelk Member Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4238 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 4:36 pm: | |
A note about the Arsenal Stadium adaptive re-use. It is part of a two billion dollar revitalization effort in the surrounding neighborhood. What's good for London can only be good for Detroit if we make the kinds of commitment Londoners are willing to make for their city. I don't think metro Detroiters, or residents in most major metropolises, are willing to make that effort. We are too fat, comfortable and complacent. And don't tell me that you are the exception because chances are you aren't and a fat lot of good you do anyway. |
Enduro Member Username: Enduro
Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 4:52 pm: | |
Heh. As a single fella, I agree with Schoolcraft! This is a great solution. I'm a huge sports fan but I've never bothered to visit the MSHF and I'm sure I'm not alone. The Michigan Sport Hall of Fame could use this kind of attraction (I've been dying to tour the stadium) and the stadium needs to keep the dugouts, inner workings the public never saw and the field. I think even the most hardened critic could let the rest go if that was maintained. Plus, there is no way this would draw like a stadium so those empty lots could get sold or developed... Finally. They're such eye sores. The soccer idea is a pipe dream and would be a loosing venture. There is barely enough demand for the two winter sports going on currently and the Tigers will have plenty of seats available on weekdays (except vs. the Yankees and a couple others). You are simply not going to get 20k soccer die-hards with out giving out freebe's and even then, they're not going to be buying a ton of beer and other marked up garbage... Plus the parking pimps will hold out on selling. |
Jelk Member Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4239 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 6:22 pm: | |
The other thing about the MLS concept is Tiger Stadium is a baseball site and baseball should continue on the site. The stadium, as we know it, began in 1912 and prior to that the Tigers played at a facility on that site known as Bennett Park. They played three World Series' at Bennett Park and the facility hosted some of the games early great players. Ty Cobb and Sam Crawford, Tinkers, Evers, and Chance, Honus Wagner, Cy Young, Ed Walsh, Nap Lajoie, Jimmy Collins, etc, etc. Prior to Bennett Park the site was known as Woodbridge Grove and amateur baseball was played there as early as 1868. It's about baseball stupid. And Tiger Stadium's re-development must still be about baseball. The game need fresh blood, there's a generation that needs to develop a passion and love for the game. Tiger Stadium's re-development plan will enable thousands of young people (primarily Detroit children) to play baseball on this historic field. The Hall of Fame will greatly compliment that youth baseball vision of the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy's mission and be a ideal anchor tenant for the overall development. Go to the site of Crosley Field, Griffith Stadium, Shibe Park, and Comiskey Park and if you are lucky you'll find a plaque. Detroit has the opportunity to preserve and re-use a significant part of Tiger Stadium like no other city has done with a ballpark. |
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920
Post Number: 194 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 7:32 pm: | |
Don't mean to be a pessimist, but maintaining a baseball diamond will gobble up mucho bucks. Plus kids don't play baseball anymore. As for the Sports Hall of Fame to succeed, it should really be near other nodes of activity, like by the Henry Ford or in Midtown near the musuems. |
Enduro Member Username: Enduro
Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 10:01 pm: | |
I know people here are going to hate to hear this but parking sucks in Midtown as it does at the current locale. I hate that the library is only open while WSU is in full swing, (here we go) the People Mover should really go at least that far north. Corktown has lots of bars and some storefronts ready to go already (just need tenants). You could keep just one or two parking lots and I imagine you can get a quality diamond maintained by volunteers. I'd love to walk over there and watch state championships for high school, heck, I might even go to umpire school! |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 2102 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 1:02 am: | |
If they truly want to preserve a part of Tiger Stadium forget the dugouts, save the right field overhang and build a museum on that portion of the stadium. Gut out the lower level seats and set up shop between the upper and lower levels. Put the Hall of Fame's entrance on Trumbull. Build a glass wall between the upper and lower levels where the overhang exists so that visitors can look on to the field. Also, have some interactive exhibits and memorabilia from Detroit's sports teams, especially the Tigers and Lions and you might have a successful hall of fame/sports museum. It's good to see some folks finally using there imaginations about reusing parts of Tiger Stadium. I know I've been pitching my idea of preserving the field and using part of the stadium for a museum ever since I've been on this forum. I'd like to think that some of the folks from the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame read my ideas and said, "Hey, that's not a bad idea." (Message edited by royce on March 08, 2007) |
Mpow Member Username: Mpow
Post Number: 242 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 1:17 am: | |
how can you catch foul balls with that glass wall? |
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen
Post Number: 2098 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 7:25 am: | |
Update... Another strike for Tiger Stadium?: City hopes for spring public tours wither; redevelopment proposal yields no viable offers "The city has backed away from its hoped-for plan to allow the public to walk through Tiger Stadium around Opening Day. And that's not the only bad news: There are mounting indications the beloved ballpark at Michigan and Trumbull could become another long-standing eyesore on Detroit's landscape; the Tigers moved to Comerica Park in 2000. Last June, Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick unveiled an architect's rendering of how The Corner could look, but no developer has stepped up to the plate with a viable plan. Kilpatrick had envisioned 150 condos and as many as 50 stores on the 8.5-acre site in Detroit's Corktownneighborhood. Still, in a Sunday morning interview on Channel 7 with Chuck Stokes, the mayor said the city is "negotiating" with a developer, whom Kilpatrick did not name, to do the project. ..." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070319/M ETRO/703190355/1003 |
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx
Post Number: 690 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 10:05 am: | |
^^^^^ This is just sad. |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 2122 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 11:00 am: | |
Why does stuff like this have to be so damn complicated? Stuff like ownership of the damn stadium. Is it Ilitch or the city? Why can't the public walk across the field? They used the field during the Super Bowl. What has happened since then? Of course, if you rope-off areas and put a few guards around, you can keep most people from straying into the stands. Another thing, save 4000 seats! Where in the hell did this idea come from? I just read the Freep's article about the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame wanting to do something with the dugouts, but there was nothing said about saving 4000 seats. That's crazy. If the field is going to be reconfigured for little league baseball, then you don't need 4000 seats. Now, I don't know much about Citizen District Councils (CDCs), but what I have heard is that Corktown has a pretty good one. Aren't CDCs supposed to be represented by the citizens who live in the community? Why does JoAnn Watson want to push for blacks to be on the panel if few blacks live in Corktown? Well, knowing her, I just answered my own question. My suggestion - tear down the stadium completely, leave nothing, not even the dugouts, preserve the entire field, put up an historic marker, and leave the rest of the grounds as a park, with picnic tables and swings. No damn retail, no lofts. Build all of that along Michigan Avenue or west of the stadium where all of that land for parking is located. In the end, this will be the cheapest most practical way to put the old ballpark out of her misery, yet preserve the history of what the corner has historically been about - a place for play and relaxation. (Message edited by royce on March 19, 2007) |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8574 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 11:05 am: | |
quote:Why can't the public walk across the field? There is this pesky little thing called liability. |
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1107 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 11:13 am: | |
Patience. This project is on Detroit time and going through the typical Detroit motions. The Book Cadillac deal also took a long time and went through a couple of near-death experiences. Something as complicated as the Tiger Stadium plan isn't a slam dunk for development by any means but definitely viable. The people pushing this project forward know what they're doing and how to make this work. Have a little faith. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 559 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 11:23 am: | |
Why not convert it to a giant aquarium? Maybe with a live whale. |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 2123 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 11:40 am: | |
As opposed to a dead whale? |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 485 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 12:44 pm: | |
"I don't like that list," City Councilwoman Barbara-Rose Collins said at a council meeting last month. "I would not approve any CDC that is all white in a city that is 90 percent black, even though the location is Corktown, and there's a lot of white people in that area." In response, the economic growth corporation extended the traditional Corktown boundaries north of Interstate 75 to create a larger area from which to cull CDC members. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8576 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 12:55 pm: | |
quote:"I don't like that list," City Councilwoman Barbara-Rose Collins said at a council meeting last month. "I would not approve any CDC that is all white in a city that is 90 percent black, even though the location is Corktown, and there's a lot of white people in that area." When are these idiots going to realize that green is much more important than black/white. The woman is a fool and attitudes like hers probably prevent a lot of investment dollars from coming into the city. |
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 448 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 1:00 pm: | |
My thoughts exactly, Jt1. I wish both blacks and whites could frickin' get over this bullsh*t and work to benefit the city. It's that kind of mentality that continues to hold back the city. That and a completely incompetent City Council. |
Blort Member Username: Blort
Post Number: 80 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 1:30 pm: | |
"There is this pesky little thing called liability." Bahh, Isn't there a guard there? He hasn't died (yet). Make people sign wavers. I'd sign one in a second. |
Eric Member Username: Eric
Post Number: 714 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 1:33 pm: | |
Great, to see the usual suspects on council holding the city back. God we can't get rid of these 1960's mentality, race is everything fools soon enough. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 264 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 4:32 pm: | |
"I don't like that list," City Councilwoman Barbara-Rose Collins said at a council meeting last month. "I would not approve any CDC that is all white in a city that is 90 percent black, even though the location is Corktown, and there's a lot of white people in that area." In unrelated news, the Detroit Red Wings have decided to move their ice rink to West Bloomfield. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 561 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 4:35 pm: | |
Royce: I should have considered a dead whale. Great idea. What we'll do is, see, put a big dead whale in there w/ a very hungry polar bear. Don't tell me folks wouldn't pay to see that bear demolish the whale. (Feeding time at the zoo is very popular; and that bear will be eating on that whale several hours a day.) It would probably take a few weeks and folks could place bets on when it would finish off the carcass. A problem: Council will probably insist that we put a black bear in there w/ the polar bear, and the black bear wouldn't last that long around the polar bear's food. What are we gonna do for Act II though? That's the problem. I guess we could charge people to withness the stadium being demolished after the bear is done. |
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981
Post Number: 377 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 4:44 pm: | |
That is THE funniest shit I have read in awhile. You rock! |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8581 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 4:52 pm: | |
quote:What are we gonna do for Act II though? Gladiator matches at the ballpark. Uses the space, will bring in tax revenue and deal with the pesky prison overcrowding in the State. |
Enduro Member Username: Enduro
Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:09 am: | |
Flood the thing and recreate naval battles with miniatures! Then release the whale to consume the actors! The insanity of the council might actually lend an ear to some of these ideas... if they were brought forth by the 'right' investors. Ugh. |
Scottr Member Username: Scottr
Post Number: 438 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:52 am: | |
Reminds me of my dad's idea to flood the Silverdome and stock it with fish, so you could go fishing off the upper deck. He thinks indoor fishing is a great idea. Personally it seems downright blasphemous, but I don't fish myself, so what do I know? He's full of bizarre ideas like that. Level every other block for surface parking is his solution for downtown Flint, for example. I'd hate to see what he would think of for Tiger Stadium. |
Lt_tom Member Username: Lt_tom
Post Number: 159 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 5:54 am: | |
Has anyone noticed this on Ms Collins's COD webpage as it is listed under her most significant accomplishments: "The Ghanan town of Pepease has designated her as a queen mother. Councilwoman Collins has said that "this is not merely an honorary position, but a genuine coronation, with all the responsibilities and privileges afforded to royal family members." |
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism
Post Number: 625 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:04 am: | |
I am curious what will the people at the Corktown neighborhood association, such as Histeric, do in response to something like this;
quote:The corporation had presented the City Council a list of nine Corktown residents it wants on the Citizens District Council to help direct the project. But the initial list was rejected due to complaints because there were too many white people on it. Of the proposed members, six were white, two were Hispanic and one was black. "I don't like that list," City Councilwoman Barbara-Rose Collins said at a council meeting last month. "I would not approve any CDC that is all white in a city that is 90 percent black, even though the location is Corktown, and there's a lot of white people in that area." |
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 794 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:53 am: | |
Wonder how she would feel about this: "I don't like that list," Senator Smith said at a state legislative meeting last month. "I would not approve any City council that is all black in a state that is 90 percent white, even though the location is Detroit, and there's a lot of black people in that area." |
Peter Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 23 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 12:25 pm: | |
Barbara-Rose Collins is an uneducated racist. |
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox
Post Number: 1045 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 1:06 pm: | |
That was the most painful meeting I have ever been to. The people who showed up need a civics lesson. It was not a public hearing on the disposition of the stadium but it sure did turn into one. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 746 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 2:29 pm: | |
Ms. Collins is indeed a racist. Race informs virtually every issue she takes an interest in at the council. On countless occasions, I have observed her exhibit blissful ignorance regarding important municipal issues but then leap to dominate the conversation when race becomes a subject. She is the most egregious offender on the council when it comes to the disrespectful treatment of white businesspeople who appear before council. The double standards she applies in this regard are so obvious as to be laughable. It's no surprise that she rarely employs any white staffers. Why should she? This is a black city, right? Sorry for the rant. I'm usually able to shrug off the race bullshit that so many council persons dish out, but Ms. Collins pushes my buttons for some reason. |
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark
Post Number: 282 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 2:34 pm: | |
^^^ TB there have been far more painful meetings just in the last few weeks. The press showed up this time, at least WDIV and the Freep. Do you believe that a developer can't be found UNTIL the stadium is knocked down? I think most folks that live in the area want a resolution soon. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 747 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
Can anybody summarize what was learned at the meeting? |
Jelk Member Username: Jelk
Post Number: 4266 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:08 pm: | |
Swingline, what was learned at the meeting is that a Citizens District Council is being formed for the expressed purpose of providing advice to the Economic Development Corporation of the city of Detroit. That Board will make the final determination on the project. Stakeholders (residents and business owners) within the project area (roughly Corktown and North Cortktown) were invited to attend last night's meeting to learn about the role and responsibility of the CDC and to apply for a seat on the CDC if they so choose. Much of the "noise" (to borrow a term from Ron Shandler) from last nights meeting was caused by non-stakeholders who wanted a moment on the soapbox. I think that is what Toolbox was referring to when he mentioned civics lessons. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 749 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:10 pm: | |
What position were the non-stakeholders promoting? |
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark
Post Number: 283 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:14 pm: | |
Some persons thought this was a good forum to promote the saving of the stadium or parts there of rather then looking forward to the redevelopment of the stadium site. |
Enduro Member Username: Enduro
Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:25 pm: | |
I wanted to go to this (being a Corktown resident) but I had to work and missed it. The newspaper didn't seem to have much info on what went down. Does anyone have a transcript? |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 750 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:42 pm: | |
Yes, it seems like the best course would be to begin demolition as soon as possible. It must be hard to attract developer interest when they don't know when or if the site is going to be cleared. Then, of course there's this problem: quote:Collins said she wants the site developer _ and not the city _ to pay for demolition. City council must sign off on any plan for Tiger Stadium and all city-owned property. That has already slowed the process. A real good way to scare off developers is to advise them that they'll have to add $5 million to their budget for demolition. But if the city can find a black developer with the interest and ability to take on the project, I'm sure that Ms. Collins will change her tune on who should pay for the demolition. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8629 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:47 pm: | |
quote:A real good way to scare off developers is to advise them that they'll have to add $5 million to their budget for demolition. But if the city can find a black developer with the interest and ability to take on the project, I'm sure that Ms. Collins will change her tune on who should pay for the demolition. Sadly 100% true. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 574 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 6:02 pm: | |
Her idea makes a lot of sense and that's a condition I'd impose on a developer as well, especially based on the city's current financial condition. A developer is only going to pay so much based on the proposed use. Tell the developer to demolish the stadium and deduct the cost from the purchase price. Why should the City do it on spec? |
Enduro Member Username: Enduro
Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 6:26 pm: | |
Can't they just demolish MOST of it and make them rehab the dugouts and backstop? After all, it seems like they already have a built in tenant with the MSHOF. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 752 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 10:26 am: | |
3rdworld, do you agree that the Michigan and Trumbull site has negative equity with the stadium still standing? It will cost far more to demolish the stadium than the site is worth once it is cleared. (And remember, you can't use the entire size of the site to figure the per square foot value because much of the site will be devoted to the future ball field and other non-moneymaking uses.) The city has to make up the difference somehow. Sure, it is possible to have the developer front the cash (borrowed) for the demolition, but then reimbursement will have to occur in the form of some kind of other incentive (tax or otherwise). |
Skulker Member Username: Skulker
Post Number: 3704 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 11:58 am: | |
quote:Her idea makes a lot of sense and that's a condition I'd impose on a developer as well, especially based on the city's current financial condition. A developer is only going to pay so much based on the proposed use. Tell the developer to demolish the stadium and deduct the cost from the purchase price. Why should the City do it on spec? I don't think it is a proposal tha makes sense. The City is spending more than $500,000 a year to secure the building and do basic maintenance. The City has already burnt through a half million in the last year. In the time that it will take to select and reach an executed development agreement that has all the proper belts and suspenders for the City to transfer that parcel to a LEGITIMATE developer that will execute development on the site, they would have spent as much on keeping the building in place as they would spent on demolishing the building. Recall also that part of the planning for the site anticipates the site potentially having multiple developers, much like the East Riverfront. Trying to coordinate apportioned costs and concurrent timelines for demolition becomes a head ache. Also, with the building on site, the Conservancy is unable to do coherent fundraising. Without a specific timeline on when the building will be demoed and construction of the public space can begin, it it awfully difficult to ask funders to give some money for a project that will "probably happen sometime but we're not sure when and how, cuz the City has to go through a process of finding someone willing to buy the stadium & pay to demolish it - - someday." Not a real attractive proposition for funders These add up to some pretty compelling reasons why the stadium needs to be taken down quickly. The demo is likely not going to be paid for through general funds. If I were a developer or the City I'd look to offset costs through the memorabilia and seat sale and I'd look to get a loan through the state brownfield program with repayment from a short run TIF on the tax revenue generated by future development. The price of scrap steel would also likely drive the demo costs pretty low as the demo crews are looking at the stadium being a pretty tasty little iron pile. All these factors add up to a pretty compelling rationale for moving for demolition sooner rather than later. |
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn
Post Number: 216 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:44 pm: | |
Can you elaborate on that "$500,000 a year to secure the building and do basic maintenance"? With pictures of trees growing in the stands, reports of box seats rotting away and news of people getting into the stadium because gates weren't locked properly that number is hard to understand. |
Skulker Member Username: Skulker
Post Number: 3705 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 1:37 pm: | |
Anybody with a calculator on their computer could easily muliply 28 (1 guard per shift with an hour or so of over lap per shift) by 365 days in the year by $20 per hour for an average guard per hour rate not including benefits and discover immediately where $200,000 of the money went. Thats for just a skeletal guard crew. Add more personal than just one person walking around per shift and the cost goes way up. I believe for about 18 hours out of the day there are 2 guards, so you can see where that might get a little pricey. There is actually very little trespassing at the site and I have not heard of any folks getting in because of improperly secured gates. I would guess the gates were jimmied. If you get caught in a building, of course you will immediately say "uh the door wasn't locked" so its just trespassing and not breaking and entering or destruction of property. Basic maintenance includes patching leaking roofs when discovered, removing signs or other pieces of the building that may become pedestrian hazards, keeping sump pumps operating, mowing and watering the field and repairing jimmied gates when retards try to break in to the building. It certainly doen't include powerwashing plastic seats or replacing wooden box seats 100 feet off the ground. To maintain it in a near pristine condition would run $4-5 million a year or more...This is an object lesson for those that feel buildings should not be torn down until a replacement development is found. Securing and maintaining unoccupied buildings is very, very expensive. |
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn
Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 6:44 pm: | |
Well, I'll grant the security cost isn't cheap, but given the easiest maintenance could have prevented trees from growing in the park, the rest just has to be believed. Appreciate your time spent responding, thanks. |
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 595 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 9:48 pm: | |
Mr. Rashid goes to Washington http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070329/BLOG07/ 70329048/1161 |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 596 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 11:02 pm: | |
Swingline: I have no idea what the site is worth now or with the stadium demolished. Re: Cost of maintenance. Guard services charge $10 per hour for a uniformed guard w/o a firearm. I've checked with 3 building owners and that's the average.You don't even need guards anyway. Put in a few vicious guard dogs w/ appropriate signs; keep 'em hungry. After a while reduce the number of dogs. Then, install a sound system and broadcast records of dogs barking furiously. Then, not even dog food bills. If one assumes that the stadium will be demolished then there is no need to maintain it; cinder block all entrances and other possible points of entry. Then forget about it until a developer comes around. No private business person would ever spend $500,000 per year to "maintain" the place. The deal Ilitch made w/ the City is typical of their relationship. Another handout. The City can't afford to maintain the stadium and can't afford to tear it down. When it is demolished, the City will overpay to have that done. Might as well get it over with; I would love to negotiate the demolishion contract. I wonder if the City has determined the value of the steel in the structure. Sell of everything saleable. Seats, electrical panels, buss ducts, copper wiring, HVAC equipment etc. Then, mothball it and forget about it. |
1953 Member Username: 1953
Post Number: 1343 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 11:37 pm: | |
He sounds like a dolt. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 771 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 9:11 am: | |
There was an RFP out on the architectural salvage component of the demolition. The demolition can't occur until the salvage has been completed. Any word as to whether the salvage contract has been awarded? |