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... How low is low? Were the laughing stock of the nation Peter25 03-20-07  11:32 pm
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Thejesus
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, looks like we made national news today...went to yahoo.com this morning and saw this little gem in their news section on their main page...

Houses cheaper than cars in Detroit

By Kevin KrolickiMon Mar 19, 11:48 AM ET

With bidding stalled on some of the least desirable residences in Detroit's collapsing housing market, even the fast-talking auctioneer was feeling the stress.

"Folks, the ground underneath the house goes with it. You do know that, right?" he offered.

After selling house after house in the Motor City for less than the $29,000 it costs to buy the average new car, the auctioneer tried a new line: "The lumber in the house is worth more than that!"

As Detroit reels from job losses in the U.S. auto industry, the depressed city has emerged as a boomtown in one area: foreclosed property.

It also stands as a case study in the economic pain from a housing bust as analysts consider whether a developing crisis in mortgages to high-risk borrowers will trigger a slowdown in the broader U.S. economy.

The rising cost of mortgage financing for Detroit borrowers with weak credit has added to the downdraft from a slumping local economy to send home values plunging faster than many investors anticipated a few months ago.

At a weekend sale of about 300 Detroit-area houses by Texas-based auction firm Hudson & Marshall, the mood was marked more by fear than greed.

"These people are investors and they know the difficulty of finding financing. They know the difficulty of finding good tenants. They're cautious," said realtor Stanley Wegrzynowicz, who attended the auction.

HOW LOW IS LOW?

The city, which has lost more than half its population in the past 30 years and struggled with rising crime, failing schools and other social problems, largely missed out on the housing boom that swept much of the country in recent years.

Prices have gained less than 2 percent per year in the five years since 2001, when the auto industry entered a renewed slump.

Steve Izairi, 32, who re-financed his own house in suburban Dearborn and sold his restaurant to begin buying rental properties in Detroit two years, was concerned that houses he thought were bargains at $70,000 two years ago were now selling for just $35,000.

At least 16 Detroit houses up for sale on Sunday sold for $30,000 or less.

A boarded-up bungalow on the city's west side brought $1,300. A four-bedroom house near the original Motown recording studio sold for $7,000.

"You can't buy a used car for that," said Izairi. "It's a gamble, and you have to wonder how low it's going to get."

Detroit, where unemployment runs near 14 percent and a third of the population lives in poverty, leads the nation in new foreclosure filings, according to tracking service RealtyTrac.

With large swaths of the city now abandoned, banks are reclaiming and reselling Detroit homes from buyers who can no longer afford payments at seven times the national rate.

Michigan was the only state to see home prices fall in 2006. The national average price rose almost 6 percent but prices slipped 0.4 percent here, according to a federal study.

The state's jobless rate of 7.1 percent in January was also the second highest in the nation, behind only Mississippi.

HOW MUCH CAN YOU BUY FOR $1 MILLION?

Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick was greeted with applause when he announced last week that two condominiums in the city's revitalizing downtown sold for over $1 million each.

But investors, including some from out of state, proved far more cautious at Sunday's auction.

In the most spirited bidding of the day, a sprawling, four-bedroom mansion from Detroit's boom days with an ornate stone entrance fetched just $135,000.

Dave Webb, principal at Hudson & Marshall, said Michigan had become a "heavy volume" market for his auction firm in recent years, although bigger-money deals were waiting in California, a market he said was ready for the first such auctions of repossessed property in years.

"These people that are buying have got to look at holding on for five to seven years," he said. "The key is holding power."

Even with the steep discounts on Detroit-area properties, some buyers handed over their deposits with a wince.

"I'm not sure it's congratulations," said Kirk Neal, a 55-year-old auto body shop worker who bought a ranch in the suburb of Oak Park for $34,000. "My wife is going to kill me."

Realtor Ron Walraven had a three-bedroom house in the suburb of Bloomfield Hills that had listed for $525,000 sell for just $130,000 at the auction.

"Once we've seen the last person leave Michigan, then I think we'll be able to say we've seen the bottom," he said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200 70319/ts_nm/usa_subprime_detro it_dc
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Thejesus
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

oops...didn't see Pam's thread...

(Message edited by thejesus on March 20, 2007)
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Psip
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/97331.html?1174390182
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Swiburn
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Relying on one industry (cars) is like a junkie looking for a dose and also trying to reform. It's always "Just give me one more hit, i.e. new car plant, and then I'll try to give it up." But, as the city of Flint can tell you, it's hard to give up that steady, high paying fix.

For every block of Detroit that's rehabilitated, there are probably l0 blocks that are falling apart. I see the new condos, but then I also see Hamilton Avenue.
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Johnlodge
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All the more reason I'm buying a house here right now. Haha! And I was renting before so I don't have to try to sell anything! Haha!
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Lvnthed
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

swiburn,

As long as you are wearing sh** covered glasses, all you will ever see is sh**!!

Lodge, I am There 2008
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6nois
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swiburn Hamilton Ave is in Highland Park. This is another article that really just bypasses anything good happening in the city. I feel like the national media is partly to blame for some of Detroit's issues because they don't cover anything good happening here. There was no national article about how the COD had more building permits issued than any other part of Metro Detroit, there was no article talking about the increase in home buying in the city either. Of course everyone is going to have a negative view of the city if thats all that gets reported.
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Buyamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most of the houses that are selling for really low prices are dumps that will need a lot of tender loving care to rehabilitate.
I've been watching the sales in the Real Estate Section in Sunday's papers and it's showing prices are remaining consistently high on homes in the area I used to live in...7 and Hayes area.
The house I got $23,000 for in 1992 is now selling for over $70,000.00. I never did do good in real estate, timing is everything!
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Swiburn
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm glad that Buyamerican's house is in the good price range, and I know that Hamilton Ave is in Highland Park. Try the area of St. Antoine and Forest Park.
One thing I find fascinating is that houses in Highland Park sell for more than in Flint. I suppose this is due to the proximity of higher prices in neighboring Oakland County.
I'm glad they are building new condos in Detroit, but the city always grips me with its' desolation. I'm just studying it through my economics major eyes!
I suppose Detroit could reinvent itself as a smaller center for health and educational facilities, but this is all going to take years and years, and the state doesn't have money to help it along as it used to do. The literal and figurative scars of the automotive industry will have to be cleaned up.
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Beavis1981
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

last time I did a search you could find houses for 4,000 in delray
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.waynecounty.com/WCa uctions/Auction/
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Queensfinest
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is anyone aware of anywhere else in the country where you can find housing values that have gone down to the level described in this article, either rural or urban?
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Dougw
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus wrote:
quote:

oops...didn't see Pam's thread...


No problem, your thread has the better title, so your thread wins. (as evidenced by the continued activity)
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Fnemecek
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"Once we've seen the last person leave Michigan, then I think we'll be able to say we've seen the bottom," he said.


The bottom must be a loooong ways off then. Michigan's population is still going up. The rate of increase is slower than the national average, but it's going up; not down.
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Defendbrooklyn
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We should pool "our" (Detroityes) cash and buy up all of these cheap houses...Lets take action and clean up some of the beat down homes.
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Professorscott
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, regionally, there is a housing slump based on fear about the disposition of the automotive jobs. Realtors in the NE burbs are reporting unusually long sell cycles and homes going for much less than they did two or three years ago. (I know some Realtors out that way.) In Detroit, where the population loss has kept housing values low, this slump also has its effect.

One wonders if there is a point at which land prices, in a region with all the urban infrastructure available, get so low that entrepreneurs swoop in to take up the bargains. Or is our governmental system so anti-entrepreneur that this will never happen here?
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Buyamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What you drive drives America.

It's all due to the automotive industries decline in Detroit AND Michigan.
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Professorscott
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Buyamerican,

The auto industry is one of the last to go through this. Try finding any consumer electronic item made in America. Not much in the way of clothing is made here either, nor much of anything else.

Every other manufacturing region went through this already and somehow came out of it OK for the most part. If we keep pretending we will keep our auto manufacturing jobs, we are just fantasizing our way into oblivion.

I drive only American made cars, and so do quite a few of us in Michigan, but go to other states and observe. Much of the rest of the country has abandoned us already.

We need to find something else to do for a living, and that's all there is to it.
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Andylinn
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

this is why it's time to buy... also... why is this news??? mansions have been selling for +/- 100,000 since i was a kid... i remember a family friend bought a mansion in Indian Village (with tennis court and indoor swimming pool) for somewhere in the ballpark of 20-30k in the 70s...
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Buyamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott,
As you can see by my username, I am strictly for purchasing American whenever I can. A $20 iron from Japan, a $400 oven from Mexico is a lot different than a $30,000.00 automobile. Detroit's main source of income is generated from the auto industry or companies that are directly associated with the Big 3. There is a trickle down effect when the Big 3 pulls up stakes, mom and pop restaurants close, small welding shops close, and it goes on and on. In Michigan, the decline is directly due to the auto industry. There would never have been a "middle class" of people had it not been for the American Auto Industry. Every study, every page written has linked those two together. I will always feel that Americans need to support America. If they have to buy that iron that was made in Japan because it isn't made in the USA, so be it, but Americans build quality cars, that are dependable and are priced well. It's a wrongly perceived attitude that people have that foreign is better. I respect your opinion and lets agree to disagree on this one.
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Miketoronto
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would love to buy one of those houses. However the tax rates scare me. Don't you have to pay like 5-10,000 a year in property taxes?

That would be weird. A Toronto resident buying a house in another city, just for investment.
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Jt1
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Taxes depend upon the buying price and city. IN Detroit take the buying price, divide it by 2 and multiply 67 (or 64?) for every $1000.

Buying a house for 100K would result in $3350 (or $3200) in taxes. With prices so deflated the taxes in Detroit aren't as bad as you would think since it is based upon purchase price. Buying something for a lot would scare some people off.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"this is why it's time to buy... also... why is this news??? mansions have been selling for +/- 100,000 since i was a kid... "

It's news because instead of afflicting just Detroit, it's now spread throughout Metro Detroit.

While I wish it were different, maybe this is just what the region needs (or even deserves) right now.
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Futurecity
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "Buy American" crowd always crack me up. My experience is that they are only interested in buying American when it comes to saving their own ass and to hell with everyone else.

The "Buy American" crowd always seem to be first in line at the big box stores filling their truck and SUV's with mountains of goods made overseas. But who cares, right? as long as we are putting those goods in "American" cars.

Har Har.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Futurecity:

The "Buy American" crowd has never hidden the fact that they advocate buying domestic because it helps local economies and puts money in their pockets...

Also, when you're in Detroit and you hear someone say that you should "buy American", it's safe to assume that they are talking about cars and not about Television sets
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The "Buy American" crowd has never hidden the fact that they advocate buying domestic because it helps local economies and puts money in their pockets... "

I remember a woman making a similar comment on the news around the time that K-Mart almost went under and got absorbed by Sears. Funny, yet true.
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Miketoronto
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a wake up call for our countries that are not making anything within our borders anymore.

When my parents went back to visit Italy(where my family is from) not long ago, they were surprised how people worry about where an item is made. One Italian guy said "if you don't make anything in your borders anymore, you don't have a country".

We are all going to feel it in Canada and USA, if we continue to outsource production of all our items to other countries.
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Buyamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as profits from foreign automakers go overseas, you'll continue to see a decline in our American cities. Look up at the RenCen in Downtown Detroit...you don't see HONDA, TOYOTA...
you see GM.
Futurecity...if your city is Detroit, don't count on a good future, the outlook is bleak. Better yet, ask Honda or Toyota to come and bail the City out of debt.
Unfortunately, it's people like you who don't have any loyalty to US products when they are available. Again, it's what you perceive, and that's wrong.
Again, shall we agree to disagree...I won't try to convince a closed mind.
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Brandon48202
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went to the auction, it was really interesting. Even though winning bids on some of the houses were in the $1,000 to $2,000 price range, the bids may not go though because they did not meet the seller's reserve prices. Hudson amd Marshall says that in the previous auction, 85% of the winning bids were accepted by the sellers.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"As long as profits from foreign automakers go overseas, you'll continue to see a decline in our American cities."

Kinda like how Chrysler left Highland Park to rot?
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Thejesus
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

whether the sellers actually accept those prices is not relevant...if $1,000-2,000 is all people are willing to pay, then that's what those houses are worth...granted auction prices are not always in sync with actual market value, but then again, they usually aren't totally out of whack with MV either
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Buyamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Kinda like how Chrysler left Highland Park to rot?"

One of the first auto plants was built around 1918 in Highland Park. The Ford plant closed in the 50's. Crime, many people left after the riots; all contributors to Highland Park's decline. I haven't seen any economic growth in Highland Park, but Detroit still has GM, Chrysler and it's smaller companies to support it. I also haven't seen any foreign automakers helping out.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I also haven't seen any foreign automakers helping out."

Yeah, but they didn't base their marketing strategy for the 90s on patriotic loyalty. GM stayed, yes, but you're kidding yourself if you think Detroit didn't bend over backwards to keep them there...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D etroit/Hamtramck_Assembly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P oletown
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Spacemonkey
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This part cracks me up:

"Folks, the ground underneath the house goes with it. You do know that, right?" he offered.

Heh, yeah well, I can't move the ground beyond Detroit city limits to the suburbs can I?
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Spitty
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking at those pictures, the houses are surrounded by houses that look just as crappy. And most of these have been completely trashed. I wouldn't live in any of those neighborhoods, and I don't know if I'd really want to bother with fixing up a place like that. Even if you were just getting it up to snuff for people to move in as renters, it would take some serious work and money, and then you have to consider that the people who stole the sinks from these places originally might be the same people who come back and steal whatever else they can get their hands on while you're in the process of fixing up the place. It just seems like too much hassle for not enough reward to me. You'd have to buy the whole block and put a huge razor fence around it until you were finished. What could you rent these places out for in these neighborhoods? Maybe I'm totally off base.
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Spacemonkey
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll be absolutely honest with you: I wouldn't take one of those houses if it were given to me for free. What would be the point? It would be a liability, not an asset.
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Yelloweyes
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Kinda like how Chrysler left Highland Park to rot?"


Companies don't care about cities, they care about profits.
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Softailrider
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rehabing housing in Detroit is a HUGE gamble . You drop off 10,000.00 dollars worth of buiding materials in a vacant house you better have a good alarm system . The neighbors see you putting the materials in the house, chances are they're gonna go in and steal it . Come to think of it ,an alarm system won't do you any good these days because the police have stopped responding . So ,I guess you better pay somebody to stay in the house while it's being worked on .
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Bibs
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I own a duplex in Troy. The owner of a duplex down the street stopped by and asked me if I'm interested in purchasing it. Another duplex went through foreclosure down the street. I thought about buying it but decided it was too risky! My point is the real estate market is weak all over the region. Not just in Detroit.
Also, real estate is only a good investment if your rental income exceeds taxes, maintenance, interest and insurance. Otherwise, a home is a break even investment if you do the math! Or you can flip a house in a short period of time and 20 grand! Oops, those days are over!
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Lvnthed
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Softail and spitty,

There you go again,
It is not just Detroit!! Contractors all over the state are being hit by organized gangs every day. To say it's just a Detroit problem is again, DISINGENUOUS and SYMPTOMATIC of the constant piling-on of Detroit. This a regional problem Fueled by GREED and DRUGS.

Just last summer My van was hit in the Utica parking lot of Home Depot. They Took nothing but Cases. Everything that looked like a power tool case, they took. They were good too!!! Blocked line of sight and gone in 60 seconds (lol). They cost me $2000 and they weren't from the D.

Spread the Responsibility and stop blaming Detroit for all of your perceived fears.
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Softailrider
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lynthed --
With all due respect , I can't agree with what you wrote . If you rehab a house in any city in the state EXCEPT Detroit and you have an alarm system , if it goes off the police will respond . In Detroit , chances are the police will NOT respond in a timely manner . Now , I'm not saying that I would drop off 15000.00 dollars worth of lumber on the lawn of a house anywhere and not think twice about it . However in this city you wouldn't dream of doing that . I'm not trying to "pile on " the city . I'm just trying to explain some of the problems you will encounter working on houses in Detroit.
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Magnasco
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point Bibs about what makes a good investment. I heard a piece on NPR probably a few years ago now about how buying a home in general just wasn't a GOOD investment strategy anymore considering the upkeep and taxes. The segment said that we are getting to the point where getting a good deal on rent is a more secure way to go.

It is definitely a national issue, not just Detroit, although the rate of Detroit taxes is stifling any real growth for sure.
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Lvnthed
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Softail,

Trust me, I know about the perils of owning and maintaining property in the city. Try dealing with those ass-hole attorneys in nuisance abatement. I spent so much time at the county building and monroe, it just didn't make sence. Because my property was on the list before I purchased it, they gave me hell, even though I was 100% in compliance. My property was vacant but spotless and the yard was always edged and cut every week. The neighbor was a squatter in a dump. and he was able to purchase our adjoining lot. That sucks!!

Softail, I am with you all the way; Let's just ease up with some of the poetic license, it's counter-productive to the needs of the region. You know,I still love and support Detroit even with all of it's faults.
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Spitty
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lvnthed,
I stand by what I said. I'll give you half of the money if you want to buy one of these places, but after that, you're on your own. Go ahead and buy one. Have you looked at the pictures? Scrappers have stolen everything including the kitchen sink. Stuff gets stolen everywhere, but you getting your tools ganked in Utica doesn't make these particular crappy neighborhoods any more desirable. Like Spacemonkey said, these houses would be a liability, not an asset. I'm not piling on the whole city, just the houses in Barnefesto's link. Here it is again:

http://www.waynecounty.com/WCa uctions/Auction/
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 529
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yawn.

Remember when those subdivisions were getting torched in the suburbs a couple years ago?

The difference was insurance.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8585
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

With all due respect , I can't agree with what you wrote . If you rehab a house in any city in the state EXCEPT Detroit and you have an alarm system , if it goes off the police will respond .



I know a few developers that would say otherwise.
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Lvnthed
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spitty,
Your right, It doesn't change the neighborhood. what I am advocating is changing PERCEPTION. People tend to single out Detroit for all of the regions problems. Not because it's true, but more so, because it is profitable. Most of the schemes tend to line the pockets of people who do NOT live in the city. They use the city because it's convenient.

Now are you going to tell me that a bunch of crack-heads in Detroit profited from Devils Night!
Killed the the City Airport deal or Tanked River town casino land deals.
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Spitty
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does it matter? You'll just twist it around to something that I never said or even inferred. You can perceive these crappy neighborhoods any way you want to, but that doesn't change the reality. I wish every house on every block could be fixed up and have stainless appliances and granite counters, but that isn't the case. You'd likely loose your ass even putting in formica counters adn used appliances in these homes. They aren't worth fixing considering all of their circumstances. That's all I'm saying, not anything about crackheads or River Town - I don't even know where you're heading with that one.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 533
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe he's heading towards telling you pessimists to STFU?

Fifteen years ago they were giving brownstones away in Harlem for free and now you can't even touch an abandoned one for less than $1.5M.
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Spitty
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well then buy one of this shitholes that they can't even give away and we'll see who's a pessimist.

Detroit is not NYC, and it won't be in 15 years. I'm not a pessimist, but these particular homes are shit. How many times can I say that? I'm sorry if that offends you.
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Lvnthed
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 44
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We'll just have to agree to dis-agree.

My experiences overall has been more positive than negative. If I let every little issue stop me from moving forward, I wouldn't get anywhere.
But I will never say that it isn't hard. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT, I guess growing up in the city gives you thick skin.

Another point we will agree on is; all homes are not worth being repaired. I do believe the city needs to start consolidating properties and selling complete blocks. I hate infill, especially in non-historic neighborhoods.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 534
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Spitty, can I borrow your crystal ball? I need to check up on some lottery numbers.
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Spitty
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Username: Spitty

Post Number: 545
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll give you the numbers, but first you have to promise to buy one of these houses and live in it.

You want the Powerball numbers? What day? If I were you I'd wait a few days. Trust me:-)
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Lvnthed
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 45
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I get in on that?
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Swiburn
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Post Number: 77
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Spitty, Detroit is not going to be New York, unless the U.S. financial structure moves here. And those Detroit neighborhoods aren't going to get better.

As to foreign cars, once you lose your reputation for making quality items (like the Big Three did in the l970s,) you never get it back, even though the cars are so much better now

And for foreign made goods: Manufacturers want to make stuff as cheaply as they can. Basic economics. First they moved down South in the late l940s, then Taiwan, now Mexico and China.
And now western China makes stuff cheaper than E. China. Pretty soon factories will be in Mongolia. Let's deal with unfair tariffs in foreign trade.
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Innovator
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Username: Innovator

Post Number: 56
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just because Detroit isn't New York doesn't mean that there won't be a Harlem-esque real estate transformation in at least some of Detroit's neighborhoods in the next decade or so.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 535
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I agree with Spitty, Detroit is not going to be New York, unless the U.S. financial structure moves here. And those Detroit neighborhoods aren't going to get better."

Okay, well maybe it can be a Chicago? DC? Damn, can we at least be a Baltimore? What about Philly?

All saw some pretty impressive property value gains after their urban renewal gained momentum. The suburban pessimism is also part of what's hurting the regional property values. Metro Detroit has been lagging there for probably a decade or so by now.
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Ccbatson
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Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 189
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The old stupid cliche' "you can live in your car, but you can't drive your house".
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 50
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really think it depends on the neighborhood. I would not invest a dime in a place where the homes have no character, but I would invest in a neighborhood with architectural distinction. If gentrification occurs, it will only occur in the city's distinctive neighborhoods. Who wants to own a suburban tract home in the ghetto?

I think Brightmoor and even relatively stable places like Warrendale are due for further decay, while places like Boston Edison and East English Village have potential.

Oh, and the Harlem analogy is ridiculous. Have you people seen Harlem? It includes many many blocks of late 19th century three and four floor brownstones and limestones. There are also many distinguished Jazz-age era apartment buildings. Much of Harlem is truly gorgeous. There is nothing like it anywhere in the Midwest, not even in Chicago.

Even in the bad old days (1960's through the mid-1990's), portions of Harlem had real class (Strivers Row, Sugar Hill, Hamilton Heights, etc.)

One also can't compare because Harlem happens to be in Upper Manhattan. It is directly adjacent to two of the most expensive and desirable urban neighborhoods on earth (Upper East and Upper West Sides). It was inevitable that Harlem would become expensive.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 537
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry, you're right. Detroit should just roll over and die and then go to NewYorkYes! and be envious at all that they(well we, lol) have.
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Salbug00
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Username: Salbug00

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was born in Detroit. I thought "Buy American" was absolutely the way to go. However, the two worst cars I have owned in my life were both American made (Buick and Chevrolet). Because of their unreliability and high repair costs, I am now on my second Toyota. Never had a problem. Detroit is/was a beautiful city. People need to realize that the Big 3 let everyone down and so they need to move on to other industries. Am still hoping the city makes a major comeback one of these decades. Way too many treasures to be forgotten forever.
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1260
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Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... Its because we are not using Detroit to attract businesses. Look at every other major city in the us... What company wouldnt want to be across the street from harvard medical school.. in Boston... or what company wouldnt want to be right next to the oil industry's center in a projected boomtown(for the next few decades or so until we switch fuels, then they will have Detroit's problem as well.)(re Houston), and all of their machinery that constantly breaks down (or gets hit with hurricanes).

What does Detroit have to market?? A good baseball team??? Seriously... what does Detroit have going for it to make a company want to move here...??? A new telecommunications company, Medical research company, robotics company, engineering firms, (btw why is every other state in this country sending shit over for that 350 story Dubai tower. And we missed out on that 15billion$ project.) wants nothing to do with "were on a rebound" when most of what they hear is "Detroit sux"... other cities in this country surpass ANYTHING most in this metro area have ever dreamed of.. in terms of public works projects, mass transit, and fuking jobs.

Most companies will even pay the taxes in Cali gladly (who wouldnt want to be a part of the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world).

Companies look at what they have to spend... for what they are going to get... For the same price as a move to Michigan.. a company could get Lower taxes, lower labor rates, warmer weather, less regulation in Kentucky..
Lower taxes, a more young talented workforce, better weather and increasing real estate values in Phoenix... Highly technical workforce, lower taxes, high workload for engineering firms, and better weather in Texas *BTW all have better roads than the Motorcity...*
Or be flooded with massive construction projects in Las Vegas.
Just to name a few places with the relative cost of living as ours...

or they can mix and match their needs by sacrificing taxes and cost of living for more skilled professionals, and business opportunities in boston, florida, cali, conneticut, New York, Atlanta, ...
Either way... they have advantages... none of which we do.

Honestly what the fuk would make a company want to stay here... we need to come up with some serious answers to that quick because until we do... they arent comming... besides whats already deep-sixed here.

A company from out of town dont give 3 shits bout auburn hills... or Birmingham, or royal joke, or southfield, or Troy... They know that the major city in this state is doesnt compete on any level in terms of business interest.

... This region has allowed itself to bitch its way into apathy... and i dont even know how you can start to fix it...
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 748
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Salburg, when did you own the unreliable Buick and Chevrolet? Tell the truth.
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Swiburn
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Username: Swiburn

Post Number: 79
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lheartthed: (Chicago has a Federal Reserve branch that helps their downtown district immensely) There's just something that keeps Detroit down, and I can't quite pin it down.

But we need a more educated workforce and the college kids are moving away. And the "Detroit News" did a feature a few years ago that said the majority of Michigan residents don't really care about higher education and spinoff jobs from that side. Astounding but true.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1764
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

There would never have been a "middle class" of people had it not been for the American Auto Industry.



Here we go again with non-truths. The Auto industry did not create the middle class. The American government did with the ability of common folk to buy land. That misnomer is as bad as the UAW created employee paid health insurance.

BTW, Kmart absorbed Sears, not the other way around.

As long as the Big Three continue to overprice their cars to cover outrageous pensions, benefits and employee subsidized pricing without cutting the fat that is killing them, I guess we are all doomed.

But hey, just keep overspending to buy American to keep their job, where you are out in the poor house.
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Salbug00
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Username: Salbug00

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swingline,

I had a 1985 Buick and a 1994 Chevrolet. Had a Toyota in the 1970s that ran perfectly until I sold it. And the Chevy caused me nothing but headaches, so went back to a Camry.

Salbug

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