  Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 186 Registered: 05-2005 |
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070404/UPDAT E/704040441/1003 | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1087 Registered: 10-2003 |
no it's not. just continuing the ilitch slash and burn campaign. | ||
Jonnyfive Member Username: Jonnyfive Post Number: 53 Registered: 03-2007 |
More likely another surface lot for baseball games. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 304 Registered: 11-2003 |
or parking for the Detroit Life Building but you never know. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4064 Registered: 08-2004 |
Geeze, the Ilitch's must be hard up for cash... NOT!! Unbelievable!!! | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 1936 Registered: 11-2003 |
I don't think that structure was saveable. I am all for preservation and restoration, but all buildings are not possible to save. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 199 Registered: 11-2006 |
I'm betting on a new hockey arena. I see this as another case of Ilitch getting things in order. Although a skeptic could say that Ilitch needs more parking in response to the Tigs increased attendance prospects for '07. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 817 Registered: 06-2006 |
how close in proximity is the GAR building to where this arena will supposedly go? is the site right on top of it? btw, one good thing that will come of a new arena...the Joe could be demolished to make way for a new reiverfront property at some point in the next decade... | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 200 Registered: 11-2006 |
Bobj: Why would ANYONE want to save a building in the middle of the footprint (I believe) of a new hockey arena? Someday they might be dropping a puck where that building stands today. I just don't think 'preservation and restoration ' is applicable when someone needs a very large parcel for something like an arena or stadium and the building is in the middle of it. (Message edited by emu_steve on April 04, 2007) | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2302 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Where's Skulker to remind us all how pro-preservation the City of Detroit is? Hooray subsidies for speculative demolition! Not every building is worth saving. That doesn't mean you demolish them ALL, just because you feel like it. The fact that this is yet another giveaway to Ilitch is appalling. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yeah if you look in the previous thread the building being demolished was hardly worth saving. I for one am pretty excited for a new arena. I may be full of high hopes but I think that the surface parking that was bought up around the time of the CoPa opening was always intended at an area for a new hockey arena. For Mr. I and co.the revenue generated from those surface lots is a drop in the bucket compared to what a new arena will bring. If he really is the money grubbing person you all make him out to be then hes got bigger plans than surface parking. Perhaps hes planing the worlds largest parking structure though. Imagine that whole footprint and 27 stories of nothing but parking and of course since it is Illitch NO ground floor retail. hahahahahaha | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1734 Registered: 04-2005 |
"received a $104,500 state grant" Why is the State ( WE ) paying for this? That amount is about 1/2 the parking receipts for an event at the Fox or a Game. | ||
Jonnyfive Member Username: Jonnyfive Post Number: 54 Registered: 03-2007 |
Sure, lets build a hockey arena. I'm all for it. But the hockey arena aspect of this discussion is speculative. The only thing we actually know is that the Illitch family got state money, distributed by the city, to knock down a building in a prime parking location. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 552 Registered: 02-2007 |
Does anyone have a picture of the structure. I pray it's that Parking Garage on Clifford. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 51 Registered: 10-2006 |
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/96694.html?1175697179 | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1062 Registered: 09-2004 |
What structure is this? Isn't this the sketchy looking two-story "Hotel". How could anyone want to save that crap? (Message edited by sharmaal on April 04, 2007) | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 553 Registered: 02-2007 |
ok, I don't frankly care then about that building. Demo it right away. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1063 Registered: 09-2004 |
http://www.google.com/maps?q=1 38+W+Columbia+St,+Detroit,+Mic higan+48201,+USA&sa=X&oi=map&c t=image Sure looks like it. (Message edited by sharmaal on April 04, 2007) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4066 Registered: 08-2004 |
Sharmaal, I don't think anyone is worried about saving it... it's just that Ilitch just got more free money to tear down something he's neglected... taxpayer money! | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 233 Registered: 01-2006 |
Tear that schitt down.... | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2303 Registered: 10-2003 |
If it's a crap building, then it very well may need to be demo'd. I take issue with the current slash-and-burn campaign for two reasons: 1. The subsidies 2. There is no clear plan to do anything with the site other than raze the building. Perhaps if Ilitch said, "I'm going to demolish this building and build a hockey arena, which will begin construction upon completion of the demolition," that would be one thing. This is just another Madison-Lenox. Good work, Downtown Destruction Authority! | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 52 Registered: 10-2006 |
What Gistok, aren't you excited for a taxpayer subsidized arena? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 818 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Why is the State ( WE ) paying for this? That amount is about 1/2 the parking receipts for an event at the Fox or a Game." What does one thing have to do with the other? | ||
Jonnyfive Member Username: Jonnyfive Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2007 |
It means he can afford to pay for it himself. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 821 Registered: 06-2006 |
If that's the other guy's answer too, then neither of you quite understand how business works... The fact that Olympia has more money than that on hand is irrelevant. Did it occur to either of you that it may not be worth it to him to demolish the building if he had to pay for it himself? Or that the state also has an interest in seeing a dilapidated structure removed from the entertainment district of the states biggest city? Just because you have $20k in the bank doesn't mean you can afford to run out tomorrow and buy a $20k boat that you don't need... Supply and demand is also a factor...if there were developers lining up around the corner to develop every bit the downtown area, the state wouldn't need to provide funds to induce this type of activity...as it stands, however, they do need to do this or no one is going to touch downtown with their investment dollars (Message edited by thejesus on April 04, 2007) | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 380 Registered: 11-2006 |
no wonder the fucking state is in a $900 million deficit. ridiculous. Ilitch has $104,000 to spend on his new parking structure or hockey stadium | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2307 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Explain how demolishing downtown Detroit is in the State's best interest. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4071 Registered: 08-2004 |
The_jesus...we're not talking about middle class people here...were talking about a BILLIONAIRE... put it into perspective man!!!! Why should people of lesser means (such as Ndavies and his work on the Vinton Building) put their big bucks into redevelopment, when Billionaire Ilitch doesn't want to plop down chump change (for him) to tear down a building. He did buy it, didn't he... why should everyone else pay to have it demolished??? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 824 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Explain how demolishing downtown Detroit is in the State's best interest." Quite simple...because vacant, useless buildings are an eyesore that attract bums while scaring away people with money to spend... How appealing would you find the DC area if it were full of nasty boarded up vacant buildings | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 825 Registered: 06-2006 |
Gistok: It likely cost more than $105k to purchase and rennovate the Vinton building...put it into perspective man!!!! And the idea is that everyone will benefit from having this nasty building removed and having something else go up in its place.... Or he could just leave it there and the city can keep its $105k...seems like an easy choice to me...apparently the city thought so too (Message edited by thejesus on April 04, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8823 Registered: 10-2003 |
How does everyone benefit? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2310 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Well, that was certainly the case here 10-15 years ago, and in some neighborhoods, is still the norm. Seems that because those buildings were left, though, they remain now to be renovated, and our downtown doesn't look like Houston as a result. Obviously, plenty of developers found those empty buildings quite appealing, and they've made a handsome profit to boot. You're so much as encouraging Ilitch to create a f*cking moonscape, with no definite plans for the future. Then again, we have laws against wholesale demolition. The architectural review boards and advisory neighborhood commissions would run a guy like Ilitch out of town, let alone give him tax money to destroy the entire fricking town. How's the progress on the Hudson and Statler blocks coming along? Have those vacant lots inspired anyone to develop yet? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 826 Registered: 06-2006 |
jt1: see response to Danindc... I don't know why you guys are even challenging me on this...you guys grasp the idea here... methinks you all just hate Ilitch that much that you'd rather see him have less money his pocket than have some forward motion going with rehabilitating the downtown area... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 827 Registered: 06-2006 |
Dan: wtf do you think is going on in Detroit? there are tons of buildings being renovated and converted into lofts, hotels, etc...it's just not feasible to do it with EVERY single building that might have some interesting history behind it...and the building in the instant case doesn't even have that, so wtf? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2311 Registered: 10-2003 |
^Ironically, the only forward motion downtown is in the existing buildings, like the Book-Cadillac, that are being renovated! How many brand-new buildings have gone up on lots where buildings were demo'ed??? Hell, even two out of the three casinos are using renovated buildings as part of the permanent structure. The guy renovates ONE f*cking building, and you give him carte blanche to shit up the rest of the town. Yet people wonder why no one wants to invest in Detroit. Maybe people don't want to lose their ass after the city subsidizes yet another Ilitch demo that lowers their property value? | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2215 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: Dan -- when did you move to DC? Because I lived there exactly 10 to 15 years ago and it ain't the city I remember. Comparing the empty buildings in DC in the early 90's to Detroit, is like comparing the south Loop in the late 80's/early 90's to detroit. Yes, some buildings were empty, but there was so much around all of those buildings - so many people and successful developments -- that it was clearly only a matter of time. Detroit is waaaaaaay different. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 828 Registered: 06-2006 |
Dan: I guess we disagree on the idea that absence of dilapidated, vacant crumbling buildings in an area that we want to attract people with $$$ to is better than the presence of them... | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 282 Registered: 08-2004 |
More likely than not that will have to go at some point. If SOMETHING goes up in its place it will not be a huge loss, unlike the M-L. I think that what is objectionable is that if Illitch owns the building already and wants demolish it with no immediate plans to develop the site, it should be demolished on his dime. Personally, I think Illich has plans for the site, but he isn't dosen't want to tip his hand until he has all of the property in place. I'm sure there are plenty of back room deals going on at the moment. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 755 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: I think your too busy blowing Ilitch to understand that allowing the demolition of building without a planned new used new is use is bad policy. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1090 Registered: 10-2003 |
i think dan's point is better proven by recent history. the buildings that have gotten renovated recently were "dilapidated and crumbling" for much longer than the ones we're tearing down now. monroe block anyone? hudson's site? tuller site? the "tear it down and developers will come" idea is ridiculous and unproven. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 145 Registered: 02-2007 |
please pardon my ignorance....why or what is wrong with Joe Lewis arena....Is it too small? or do we just need another empty building? I must plead the fifth and ask? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8825 Registered: 10-2003 |
the jesus, You seem to be someone that believes in personal responsibility. Why are you completely absolving Ilitch (or any other slum lord) of being responsible with properties that they purchased. In the case of many of his buildings he has neglected them for years and let them get to this point. How can it be justifiable to give him a loan to tear down a building that he has neglected for years? If anything the city should be fining him and people like him? If the fines are too high it will force them to sell and sell at a reasonable price. Your theories on this completely absolve the owners of these buildings. You also site lack of demand but you don't acknowledge that the lack of demand is there because of inflated prices by slumlords and speculators. The market should cause the prices to go down if they are too hard to maintain. If the people like Ilitch are complaining that upkeep is too expensive then fine him until he is forced to sell. It isn't that I hate Ilitch it is the sweetheart deals that he gets. He is rewarded for not maintaining his properties. Please justify how a broke city in a broke state can justify the spending when there are 0 plans to do anything with the building in addition to a property owner that has a poor track record at best. | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 235 Registered: 01-2006 |
Gibran, It has quite a bit to do with not just an Arena for the Wings, but with Cobo Hall and the Riverfront. Cobo Hall cannot be expanded because it is hemmed in by both Cobo Arena and Joe Louis. Also, these sealed arenas are not the best land use for the riverfront. Then there is still the fact that Joe Louis is smallish, and does not have the luxury boxes needed to generate the revenue needed to support a team of the Wing's caliber. I remember when it used to be said that the Wing's had to make it to the Stanley Cup Finals just for Illich to make money. The last item is the fact that if the new arena is built where everyone thinks it will be, Illich will reap huge dividends by owning and or having a significant interest in the entire Foxtown/Entertainment District area. Think parking revenue synergies to get an idea. JD | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 829 Registered: 06-2006 |
jt1: because the alternative is that the building stays there and simply decays... | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1735 Registered: 04-2005 |
Gibran, the current trend in sports complexes it to squeeze every penny from the spectators. The Joe is locked into distributing the wealth. Patrons can take the People Mover to off site dinning, drinking and parking. Also, I believe the city owns the parking structure at the Joe. The Olympia organization would prefer to own and control every aspect of the sports experience. Hence, their own parking, restaurants, and concessions. That aside, the Joe is a terrible venue. Inadequate restroom facility's, very poor crowd movement planning (look at those stairs at the entrance) and NO accommodation's for TV production. (you have to lug up all the cameras from the concourse level. The question is, whats going to happen to the Joe? will it languish for 20 years before its torn down and will there be an outcrying of "Save The Joe"? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8828 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: So should every homeowner/building owner that willingly allows their property to decay get a deal like his? It is his lack of personal responsibility for that building that allows it to decay. How are you not grasping that simple concept? If you buy a house and let it decay it is your problem and your problem alone. Hopefully the city you live in would fine you to force you to sell or fix your property. Why is it acceptable for a businessman to buy a property and let it decay (or in the case of the ML; knock out the windows to expedite the decay) | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 85 Registered: 03-2007 |
I believe he is trying to collect all of the parcels needed for a new arena. Keep it under the radar, save the city, state and himself a ton of dough from land speculators. Can you imagine what happens the minute they announce a deal to build a new arena. You remember the river-front casino land mess. By the time a deal is announced there will also be deals in place for a COBO expansion using the land from a cobo arena and joe louis arena demo. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 833 Registered: 06-2006 |
jt1: do you have any reason to believe that the building wouldn't be in the state it is if the city owned it rather than Ilitch? now do you get it? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2313 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, collecting subsidies to demolish property is certainly a unique way of remaining discreet. You keep right on dreaming, though.... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 834 Registered: 06-2006 |
Lvnthed: Personally, I'd rather see that waterfront property get used for something other than a convention center, such as an office building or a residential development | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8834 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: How does that justify giving Ilitch loans for property that he has purchased and neglected. I would not have guessed that you were a believer of two wrongs make a right. The city does a lot wrong so does it mean that we should just look the other way on everything. Your logic is severly flawed. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 835 Registered: 06-2006 |
not quite... It's justified for the same reason that selling Ilitch the G.A.R building for a couple hundred grand is justified: because what will be there afterward will be better for the city than what was there before... My way, a sweet building gets restored and a nasty one gets removed... Your way, the G.A.R. building would remain boarded up and that eysore-of-building on Columbia would continue to make the area less attractive... sorry if I sound like a prick JT, but my way is better... (Message edited by thejesus on April 04, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8837 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with the GAR. That is a moot point in this conversation. Bringing this into the conversation is completely irrelevant. So I will go slow for you: GAR - Good move by the city to sell to Ilitch Loans for demo of unkept properties - bad because Ilitch has the responsibility to maintain his properties. Any other pointless adn incorrect assumptions you would like to bring in to your flawed argument. In an even more simplistic manner since you want to be a prick (as you stated): YAY GAR Boo loans for demo and neglect. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 838 Registered: 06-2006 |
see, now you're just being insulting... I didn't inject the GAR into the convo for the sake of injecting it...I'm saying that the logic that justifies selling th GAR at a huge discount is the same logic that justifies using public funds to knock this building down | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8842 Registered: 10-2003 |
The GAR was not sold at a huge discount seeing that there were provisions that mandate it be redeveloped. There was a bidding process and Ilitch won (which CC is probably going to screw up). I beleive that the reports were that it would be in excess of $1MM to renovate. Add in the location and the bid by Ilitch was in line with fair market value. The logic is different because one is awarding a bid to a person with the caveat that they redevelop the other is rewarding someone for neglecting his properties. Even if it is the same person it is a vastly different situation. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8843 Registered: 10-2003 |
PS - I will tone down my posts since this is a pretty decent conversation that doesn't need to tailspin into insluts. My apologies on the tone. | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 86 Registered: 03-2007 |
Thejesus, Anything but vacant. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 757 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: You're assuming it is going a be new stadium, for all we know it ends up a parking lot. If this land was clearly to be use for a new stadium then I don't think you'd find many people opposed. (Message edited by eric on April 04, 2007) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4073 Registered: 08-2004 |
The United Artists Building is still standing because I truly believe that Mike Ilitch doesn't want to spend the $5-$10 millions that it will cost to tear it down. Now that said, who is going to tear it down? Although the Statler was torn down with public money, it is a publicly owned site (one of the downtown agencies). But the UA is Ilitch owned. Should the city/state pay to have that one torn down too? Not if Ilitch continues to own the land. Can you just imagine the downtown building owners of derelict properities lining up to get public money to tear down their properties because for them it make more sense to use the land for entertainment parking? We'd lose a lot of downtown buildings that way.... A LOT!! | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 624 Registered: 11-2005 |
Heard some boos at the game today when he was presented his ring. Of course, I was one of the ones booing him, so maybe I was just hearing myself. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 839 Registered: 06-2006 |
"You're assuming it is going a be new stadium, for all we know it ends up a parking lot. If this land was clearly to be use for a new stadium then I don't think you'd find many people opposed. " No I'm not...a new stadium would be nice, and seems likely, but as i said before, the absence of an unattractive vacant building is better than it's presence... When people visiting Detroit from out of state and from the suburbs for entertainment purposes have to walk through an area full of unattractive buildings, they're less likely to want to come back... making the area more attractive is key to getting dollars to flow into downtown from elsewhere | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2007 |
Thanks folks...helps... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4074 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thejesus, I think that Mike Ilitch should pick and choose his opportunities better. If he wants public money for infrastructure for a new arena back there, then I have no problem with that. And even if he wants money from one of the state funds to help pay for a new arena, then I don't have any problem with that (although many here do). What galls me is that this is penny ante stuff. $105,000 is chump change for him. He should have his "snout in the public trough" on the right occasions, and not for every thing he wants to do. In this instance he's the 900 lb. hog among smaller suckling pigs at the trough... and he has the most weight and makes the loudest squeals. For him taking that chump change to demo a building that was doomed (for an arena) anyway, is akin to having a millionaire accepting food stamps, not because he needs it, but because he can take it. I don't think that other multimillionaires would have accepted this pittance. Certainly not Peter Karmanos, nor the Fords, nor Al Taubman, nor even Bill Davidson. They would be almost embarrassed to accept it. But not the Ilitch folks. One of the major dailies once labeled the Ilitch's... "flawed brilliance"... and it certain shows thru today. Like I said, I hope that the arena does go there, and that they get some help for the massive costs involved. But if the state or city is going to help with "corporate welfare", then lets give some of the smaller, not so deep pocketed businessmen a piece of the pie. What is very transparent on the part of the Ilitch's is the fact that they preceded this announcement with the announcement that they were going to save and develop the facade of the Fine Arts Building. It was probably timed so that they can't be faulted for destroying all their properties. But as some of us were wondering about why just tear down all but the facade of the Fine Arts Building, and then not tear down the Adams auditorium behind it... it now makes sense... demo'ing that auditorium is going to cost more than this little building, and maybe more than the Madison-Lenox. So maybe Mr. Ilitch is waiting for the next grant or zero interest load to do that. No point in using his own money, if he can continue to get grants and sweetheart loans to do so. Ditto for the United Artists Building. Now all that said, I truly love the Ilitch family and all they have done for Detroit. But they sure do make it hard to love them. And as in the past... if there are any bad commentary or news items about them, they don't read it. And if one of the dailies has something real bad... they'll have someone just go around to all their employees desks and confiscate their newspapers. Shameful!! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4075 Registered: 08-2004 |
Also The_jesus, I don't understand your logic for making Detroit more attractive... which do you prefer for buildings, razing them or fixing them up?? Have you even seen what some of those UGLY buildings in midtown have blossomed into when they got restored? From your argument, it doesn't sound like it. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 842 Registered: 06-2006 |
Gistok: You're thinking too much in absolutes; i.e.,one must support restoring EVERY building downtown or razing them all... The reality is that it's feasible to restore some buildings but not others... Right now, downtown has some new structures and some restored ones with with nasty, unattractive vacant buildings filling in the gaps in between...and its conceivable that this is at least part of the reason many businesses won't locate themselves there, and also why Detroit loses so many potential businesses that belong in a downtown area to places like Southfield and Troy... But if there were vacant, undeveloped land in between the new structures and the restored ones, I bet you'd see a lot of developers snatching up that vacant land to build on it... Some of these structures are simply not worth saving and they won't ever be anything...it's just an idea that people have to accept and get behind in order to move Detroit forward... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8845 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Not if the owner refuses to sell or sets the price so high that no developers would conceivably be interested. That is the issue with so many land owners, including Ilitch in downtown. You are thinking that fair market value will be the asking price when it couldn't be further from the truth. To put it in persective there was a plot of land north of downtown and the owner was asking $1.1MM for the sub 1 acre lot. The city is overrun with speculators that do not want to invest their money or sell at fair market value. Ilitch is one of them. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 565 Registered: 02-2007 |
Think of it another way preservators, A Hockey Arena (although not the best area) wouldn't be a bad Idea in Parking Lot World. With the Hockey Fans crowding the area, it may even lead to more Commercial development (retail, Corps, etc.) | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1736 Registered: 04-2005 |
Jt1, Didn't the SCOTUS rule on this issue? The Supreme Court ruled yesterday that local governments may force property owners to sell out and make way for private economic development when officials decide it would benefit the public, even if the property is not blighted and the new project's success is not guaranteed. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06 /23/AR2005062300783_pf.html I think the eminent domain rule has specific rules about how much a property is worth. Or, would this not apply? (I really don't know) What is interesting about this thread is no one is arguing the building should be saved. This has to be a first for our forum. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 843 Registered: 06-2006 |
JT1: Sounds like they will sell for fair market value, but that it just happens to be the sellers creating the market price... anyway, what would you propose? | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 759 Registered: 11-2004 |
Just look at nearby Park Ave that's seen many restoration and new businesses. Yet, there are still some vacant buildings in area. With your shortsighted view, those restored buildings would never have been possible. Given your logic most of Park Ave should've been flattened in late 90's to make it more attractive and spur investment. A street full of empty building near the Fox and newly opened ballpark couldn't attract investment to area, right?. Wrong instead we saw a series of renovations, but no developers snapping up land. I think its more than likely given your way the vacant land along Park Ave would be little more than parking lots. (Message edited by eric on April 04, 2007) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4078 Registered: 08-2004 |
Psip... I think that this announcement warrants its' own thread. That way our legalese folks (3rdworldcity and The_Rock) can explain it better. Does this make the referendum on the Michigan ballot on Eminent Domain a moot point? And it would certainly make it easier for Mike Ilitch to get the land for his Arena behind the Fox vis a vis a county development authority similar to the one for Comerica Park and Ford Field. And then there's the county's Aeropark near Metro Airport that was stalled by the folks not willing to sell. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 470 Registered: 07-2006 |
If i recall correctly the supreme court decision (which is from 2005, NOT yesterday - Psip copied and pasted from the article he linked to) left it up to the states if they chose to set stricter rules on eminent domain, which Michigan did by passing the proposal last year. So Ilitch won't be able to use that tool this time. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4080 Registered: 08-2004 |
Duh!! Thanks Scottr, that has been discussed before. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1737 Registered: 04-2005 |
oops, sorry to have mislead you. I should have edited it. Thanks for the clarification about that Scottr. | ||
Toog05 Member Username: Toog05 Post Number: 130 Registered: 03-2006 |
Here comes more speculation about a potential new home for the Red Wings. New home for Red Wings? Ilitches to raze building, stoking arena talk Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News DETROIT -- The Ilitch family, which controls a billion-dollar empire of pizza, sports teams and entertainment in downtown Detroit, is fast approaching a deadline on whether to build a hockey arena or renovate the Joe Louis Arena, the city-owned venue whose lease with the Ilitches expires in 2009. Speculation about the family's plans was stoked Wednesday when the Ilitches' Olympia Development secured state funding to raze a vacant, dilapidated building smack dab in the area long rumored to be the preferred site of the arena -- a cluster of blocks west of the Fox Theatre complex, the Woodward Avenue headquarters for Ilitch Holdings Inc.... http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070405/M ETRO/704050388 (Message edited by toog05 on April 05, 2007) | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 514 Registered: 03-2006 |
"Detroit Life Building, which the Ilitches intend to restore into high-end residential units" what?? when did their plans change and I thought rennovation was already underway | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2006 |
Just read Louis' 2nd article on the subject and I think those who think that Ilitch is demolishing the building for more parking have their heads in the sand. I wish Vegas would lay a futures bet on Ilitch building a new hockey arena in Foxtown. | ||
Yelloweyes Member Username: Yelloweyes Post Number: 113 Registered: 02-2007 |
Would it be possible that the Red Wings, Lions, and Tigers might all have a game on some Sunday in October in approximatly the same location in the future? Maybe add a performance at the Fox on top of it....the Illitch family dream...and a parking nightmare. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 306 Registered: 11-2003 |
^^^^^^^^ All the reason for mass transit. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2314 Registered: 10-2003 |
Emu Steve: quote: The article: quote: All hail the Ilitch ParkingPlex! | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 285 Registered: 08-2004 |
Parking! Parking! | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2006 |
Parking, Parking, Parking. Do you guys also think Vince McMahon and Britney will be bald for every and a year? That parking and their bald looks will pass in time. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1746 Registered: 04-2005 |
Never trust a Macedonian holding a "Park Here" sign.  | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 847 Registered: 06-2006 |
Yelloweyes... You ain't kidding... Me and a friend tried to go to Greektown on a Friday night this summer when a Tigers game was being played, but we couldn't find parking ANYWHERE and had to leave and spend the evening in Royal Oak instead... It was nuts...even during a Lions game I can always find parking close by, usually the opera house, but not on a friday night with our baseball team selling out every weekend game... | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2315 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: If there were actually evidence of this, I might be inclined to believe you. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3748 Registered: 10-2003 |
* * Sigh * * To put things is perspective for Dannycakes and others... Just 50 feet from the Vermont is the historic Iodent Building. The DDA has given a $150,000 facade improvement grant to the Iodent, a $200,000 SBLT loan for the Cetaur bar / restaurant on the first and second floors, an obsolete property rehabilitation abatement, mezzanine financing for the residential redevelopment and brownfield tax credits. Of course across the street from Centaur is the historic Town Pump which also has an SBLT. About 50 yards from the Vermont is the historic Womens Exchange building as featured in the Sharoff / Zbaren book American City, also the recipient of a $150,000 facade improvement grant. Across the street from the Womens Exhange Building is of course Cliff Bells / Park Bar, another recipient of a $150,000 facade improvement grant. Just next to that, less than 100 yards from the Vermont is the historic Kales Building which has the same array of incentives as the Iodent. Take a stroll down Park Avenue from Montcalm to Columbia to Elizabeth and then Adams and in that four block stretch you can weigh the work done on those four buildings as financed by the DDA versus the state grant to demo the Vermont and make your own decision on where priorities lie for the DDA. | ||
Admin Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 606 Registered: 09-2003 |
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