Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Detroit Annexation of itself... Previous Next
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 622
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's an interesting concept don't you think.. NO ONE will agree with this post.. But just listen..

What would happen if Detroit divided into 5 different cities.. Not really cities.. But like Chicago has done.. different sections.. with there own governing body that report to the mayor.. but those individual enties would have control of there own police, fire and for the most part government..

I think and I know many believe the city council is inaffective and out for there own interests.. And I think a reorganization is in order BIG time..

Having a 5 city council might be better.. downtown, northwest, northeast, southwest, and southeast each reporting directly to the mayor.. with equal power.. NONE of this elected power mongering that exists today...

The council has NO focus BC they have NO community to focus on..

With that power to do what they need to do.. What would happen?

Yes it would limit who could run for GOOD REASON.. People whom represent a smaller area and can better represent the people they are supposed to help..

Would it expand budgets.. NO worse than is today... WTF does a council member NEED 16 staff members.. We are the ONLY city in America that needs that many people...

Simple as this.. Detroit needs to become smaller more efficent.. and LESS middle men.. putting the one council member for each district would put an emphasis on neighborhoods that need it.. NOT the pocket book of the council...

DOWN with the city council.. and create a Detroit Regional Council Represented by neighborhoods not politicians looking to better there own pocket book...
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5412
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aren't you essentially talking about wards?

Chicago is run like countless other cities around the country: with wards.

(Message edited by lmichigan on April 22, 2007)
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Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 784
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 3:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please tell me you were drunk when came up with this crap. Five city councils controling police government couldn't possibly lead to bickering or power struggles

(Message edited by eric on April 22, 2007)
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 531
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 3:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aman Digitaldom!!!!

That is a great idea... Unfortunately it won't come to pass as Detroit is deeply entrenched with the whole at-large council mentality...

Until we as Detroiter's rise up, and demand better government, we will continue to have sub-par city government...

I hope and pray that I'm wrong, and most Detroiter's grow tired of the status-quo, and put thier focus with fixing the problems to help Detroit really become "a world class city".
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 785
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 3:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

putting the one council member for each district would put an emphasis on neighborhoods that need it.. NOT the pocket book of the council...

If indeed it's wards you're talking about it's no panacea to politicians an lining their pockets.

http://findarticles.com/p/arti cles/mi_qn4155/is_20070109/ai_ n17109657
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 624
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 3:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wards is correct Eric.. And it DOES work in Chicago.. why can it NOT work in Detroit? Tell me that? Are they the murder capital of the nation every other year? NO.. We have nothing to lose at this point in my mind because we are at the breaking point..

Why not put up camera's like Chicago has? It has reduced crime big time! DO IT! it costs much less than putting an officer on every street.. (which Detroit DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY) it would be great but not cost effective.. Many may fear of big brother.. but I have been in big cities and lived in them.. having those camera's there gave me a sense of security.. simple as that..

Police are a touch point I understand.. BUT if you look at what the mayor should do? Does it NOT make sense to allow that area to allocate police as they see fit? Really? I know from a corporate stand point that the uppers do NOT know what exactly the problems are in individual areas are doing.. and they at the local level can best address problems in area simple as that...

Those area would control there local police as well Eric.. IF you think there will be power struggles than why don't you see the same thing in suburbs? SERIOUSLY think about that.. The suburbs have there own local, county, and state police as well.. So your agrument holds no water..

Though I agree there will be conflicts thus so..

But those power struggles REALLY boil down to one thing.. the city DOES NOT serve is citizens like it should and it does NOT cooperate with it's neighbors like it should.. The suburbs today.. The suburbs DO communicate with one another.. SO WHAT IS the cities (detroits) problem with doing SO?

I almost proposed Divided the city into 5 individual cities with 5 governments than I realized that would be even worse.. BC it would never happen..

If we did divide the city I think the city would get better.. The government in Detroit is TOO large and DOES NOT represent the people simple as that...

Now everyone is up in arms about wayne county partrolling the city buses.. WTF! WTF! WTF! This union BS needs to stop NOW.. Citizens are suffering bc of it.. and crime is rising BC of it.. This is yet another example where the city thinks it can get along without help...

Get a clue.. the city needs the suburbs to help in any way.. the police union is pissed bc of the cuts and they should be.. BUT they are causing crime to occur BUT they ignoring the crime prevention on the buses.. it's not the police at fault it is there union.. BUT in the same right if the city would provide the right funding to police as they should.. AND they are NOT provided it..

The city bus union is saying OTHERWISE.. IF ANY mass transit is to ever take off.. the city needs to patrol buses and all mass transit.. that is why the old trains that ran to Detroit from Pontiac FAILED.. BC the crime was so high people stopped using it..

Our city is in such a bad shape that it needs to divide all it's assets including the water dpt, garbage, police, fire and government to serve it's community..

Honestly Detroit is TOO large and TOO poor to support itself.. It needs to be divided...

Yell at me as you will about Suburb pride and whatever.. but you need to realize the reality of things.. the city will fail without drastic measures..
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5413
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 4:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dude, this ".." is not how you end sentences. That above was nothing more than a pure, sustained ramble. I don't usually correct grammar, because mine isn't all that great, but damn, just give us one period.
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Pinewood73
Member
Username: Pinewood73

Post Number: 30
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 9:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about a more simpler solution.

Elect city council members based on "section" or "ward" instead of "at large" as they are currently elected.
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Knocturnal
Member
Username: Knocturnal

Post Number: 200
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"more simpler"

...nice
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 167
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It always stuck me as odd that Detroit didn't have wards. I think breaking Detroit into multiple cities is a bad idea and makes no sense, there are enough cities around here, and that would just cause more money to be spent and divide the rich and the poor.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5840
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit used to have wards but corruption from its aldermen board almost destroyed the city. It's better to leave Detroit as a City council run city even through is still corrupt, but not too disgraceful.

Having Detroit to break up into different cities is totally BAD ideal! Most of the predominant black Detroit ghettohoods can't even clean up after themselves. However if we could have the all the suburbs annex Detroit it would work, but matter of RACE would be a constant problem. One way for another, folks in Detroit MUST deal with their economic and financial debauchery to survive in the capitalist imperialist society or die.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1605
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i read the title of this thread as "detroit annexation of Itsjeff"
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Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 906
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's what I saw the first time I read this.
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Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 2193
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 12:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit had wards. They were corrupt. Bring them back and you'll probably get the same result. Besides no council person or ward person wants to live in one of the worst wards. That's what they would have to do if we went back to a ward system.

Digitaldom, the suburbs are not going to help Detroit out in any way. The inner-ring suburbs are starting to have their own problems with population loss, which is creating budget problems for themselves and their school systems.

I do believe that Detroit needs to "shrink" itself geographically. At some point the city is going to have to tell citizens who live in certain severely blighted areas that the city will not be able to provide services to them and at some determined deadline that they will have to move to a more densely populated area if they want to have city services. The city would then fence off those areas and tell people to stay out.

If you shrink the size of the city, then you won't need as many council or ward members. Then there won't be as many council staff members. The city saves money hand and foot.
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Pinewood73
Member
Username: Pinewood73

Post Number: 31
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry I wasn't an English major.....

"Knocturnal"

...nice
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Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1541
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 1:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, why do you assume that "you'd get the same result" if Detroit restored the ward system?

Detroit's old ward system failed just before Prohibition. That's 80-plus years ago. Things are different now; there are more checks and balances in place.

Nearly every major city has wards now (especially the cities that are well-run). The ward system is the most effective paradigm for big-city government. (Keep in mind that the City Charter would require a drastic revision in order to go to the ward system.)

The trick is to have enough wards (i.e., 13 to 17) so you have diverse and accurate representation, and so that each council member has less power. Yes, they would have to build coalitions among themselves and with the mayor to be effective.

Cooperation... gee, what a concept.

The current City Council members will fight the ward concept because it would certainly diminish their power and most likely put several of them out of their jobs.

(Message edited by Fury13 on April 22, 2007)
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Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4258
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit doesnt need wards...it needs immigrants from off the boat.
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Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1544
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It needs that too.
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Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1657
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why would needing immigrants mean that Detroit doesn't also need wards? The two are not related.

Fury's post is basically accurate. I'm not sure we could get 13+ wards if we made the switch, probably something like 7 ward councilmembers + 2 at-large members is more realistic, since then you wouldn't have to change the total number of members. Although a larger number (each with smaller budgets) would be better.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4259
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 3:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both wards and immigrants can be seen as vehicles that drive Detroit.
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Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 954
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 4:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pinewood73, an English degree isn't necessary to know that "more simpler" isn't correct. Assuming you've attended English-speaking schools your whole life, that's a junior high or earlier basic lesson.
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Kslice
Member
Username: Kslice

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

back to the subject...

Chicago and other cities that run with wards are 2 times the size of Detroit. Not saying it wouldnt work but it's hard to compare Chicago and Detroit anymore.

If you want immigrants, you should hope for ones like those of the 1900's, not people who are planning to immigrate and live on welfare for the rest of their lives...
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Sticks
Member
Username: Sticks

Post Number: 273
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just one question: where's southeast Detroit?
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 977
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The area that includes the neighborhoods basically S. of I-94 that flow along the Detroit River through the Pointes. Once you get to about Cadieux or Moross, it officially becomes NE Detroit.
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 978
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

of course on the Eastside of downtown.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5415
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 9:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The ward system has been discussed to death, on here, but I always like how my city is run where you have one half of the city council elected from the city's wears, and the other half elected at-large. It's a perfect mix, and makes for a more thorough debate on issues, and this is in a small city of 119,000. The ward system works particularly well in large cities, or, as another view, it's the lesser of two evils in terms of city governance of big cities.
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Pinewood73
Member
Username: Pinewood73

Post Number: 32
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 6:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie, I'm not going to waste any more time talking about proper grammar that I already learned and forgot about like 20 years ago.

We all make mistakes from time to time, don't need to hear stupid comments about it.

If you have something constructive to say in regards to Detroit I'd like to hear it. That's why I'm here.
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Solotraveler
Member
Username: Solotraveler

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 8:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pinewood73,

Just wondering about your log in name, did you live on Pinewood Street? Just curious as I lived on that street.

I don't think this thread is the proper place to discuss grammar. If you want to discuss grammar go back to school.
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Smitch
Member
Username: Smitch

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 8:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kslice you are incorrect. There are smaller cities than Detroit with ward systems. Indianapolis, San Francisco, Jacksonville. The ward system works.

http://www.detnews.com/special reports/2001/broken2/1ward/1wa rd.htm

Unfortunately, The problem is going to be getting people from the underrepresented areas of the city to demand a change. I think it will eventually happen. But not anytime soon.
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Pinewood73
Member
Username: Pinewood73

Post Number: 33
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Solotraveler,

Yep first house I lived at. Moved out over 30 years ago, but remember the Manufacturers Bank on the corner of Pinewood/Gratiot.

You might want to check out the 7mile/Gratiot thread in the Hall of Fame Threads section. Lots of good memories.
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Solotraveler
Member
Username: Solotraveler

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 7:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Pinewood73,

I have some memories growing up there, although I was rather young. I lived on Pinewood between Hoyt and Nevada. Our family was getting larger so we moved out in 1959 to East Detroit. I went to Gabriel Richard Elementary School. My older sister used to work at Monkey Wards. I have some fond memories of the neighborhood. I wonder if that corner store (Hoyt & Liberal)is still there. When we moved to East Detroit I got really bummed out because there was no alley's.

Take Care, Joe

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