Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Dequindre Cut article Previous Next
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 281
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 6:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a new article in the Free Press about the project; however, it has no mention of keeping a right away for future rail. I may be wrong about this, but I believe I heard a while ago that the greenway was capable of serving downtown via a new rail line if need be. Has that idea been scrapped, or was that just a forum pipe dream?


http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070425/COL27/7 04250366
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Fishtoes2000
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Username: Fishtoes2000

Post Number: 196
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Cut originally had two rail lines. One is planned for the trail while the other is reserved for light rail. In the plans I saw, the trail was on the east side of the Cut, which is opposite of what's currently on the ground.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11520
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Rehab work also will start this summer on the sheds at Eastern Market, and 5.5 miles of the riverfront is undergoing redevelopment as the Detroit RiverWalk, a space for walking, cycling and boat-watching between the Belle Isle and Ambassador bridges.



I love how every time we read about this, the distance of the path changes, as does the amount of riverwalk completed, and the time line. While the western portion of the riverwalk is being planned out, no progress has been made, nor any sort of concrete time line, though now the path is already stretched to 5.5 miles. Then, most articles have stated how the riverwalk will be something like 80%-90% complete by either last fall, or this spring, nothing of which is even close to the truth. I've seen first hand the progress that has been made, and I would estimate that 50% of the riverwalk is complete AND accessible, at best! There are still large portions that are either blocked off to the public, or haven't even been started yet.

Don't get me wrong, I love the riverwalk, as well as the fact that it's actually happening. I simply can't believe how the newspaper constantly reports such stretches of the truth in regards to it's size and amount completed.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 298
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 10:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's because they just believe whatever people tell them. It would be too much like real work to go down to the site and actually look at the damned thing :-)
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 256
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 11:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I could be wrong but wasn't the 5 miles just to the belle isle bridge or did that include gabriel richard park if not then that would give the walk an extra .5 maybe?
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 178
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 12:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really like this idea. We had one in Bay City and I loved biking and roller blading on. Kudos to keeping the graffiti as well.
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7milekid
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Username: 7milekid

Post Number: 180
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Theres noway they are going to keep the graffiti. That would incourage people to come in there and paint up all the new conctere and everything.
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 277
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's one thing to say they want to keep the graffiti. It's completely another issue to say they'll allow it to continue. I personally see no reason why not to let writers continue what they're doing in that location.

However, if cameras are actually purchased and mounted in the market yard then forget it; a major part of Detroit graffiti will become history.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1370
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Graffiti is the artwork of morons.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 180
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Graffiti is the artwork of the repressed. Of the urban context. Unless you have studied it and the reasons for it. I don't think you can speak of it in such a manor. I think keeping whats there and allowing it to continue to be tagged is a good thing. If you don't allow it there it will just go some place else. Detroit has some of the best graffiti artists in the world, we should embrace that. It's part of what makes the city Detroit, any city can have graffiti free places but few can embrace it.
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Queensfinest
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Username: Queensfinest

Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If and when this greenway is finished it could be something that the city of Detroit can showcase and be extremely proud of, similar to The Highline Project here in NY.

The reuse of former rail lines and their conversion to parks on this scale will not go unnoticed in the international planning and design communities.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 304
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel compelled to weigh in on the graffiti business; I'm not sure why, but here goes.

Some graffiti is astonishingly artistic and that kind of graffiti is an interesting and beautiful part of the urban landscape. The fact that it's illegal doesn't perturb me at all. On the other hand, some graffiti is territorial and boring, in the manner of a dog pissing on a hydrant; I'm thinking of the marks the street gangs use to show their control of an area.

I would love to see the first kind on the greenway; I can do without the second kind everywhere it exists.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 181
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you have ever explored the Cut it is full of mostly the first type of Graffiti. Highly artistic, and very beautiful. Its an area that is highly used as a study by the Detroit Mercy School of Architecture. And graffiti is often a topic for freshman studios.
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Benjo
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Username: Benjo

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't wait, I'll have a sweet place to walk my dogz without them getting glass in their paws!

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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1038
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They look like gansta rap dogs!
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 959
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Detroit truly wants out-of-state visitors to enjoy something like the Dequindre Line (that's what the RR called it at the time of abandonment), it will have to get rid of the graffiti. Most of the public perceives graffiti as a sign of a depressed, neglected, and high-crime area. That's a perception that won't go away, notwithstanding the efforts of a few art students and people on this forum.

The vast majority of people don't, and won't, care anything about graffiti's artistic value. Parents will not want to take their kids on a stroll through a graffiti-covered landscape, with obscene words all over the place.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 182
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good then I won't have to deal with tourists or children while enjoying the graffiti.
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Fishtoes2000
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Username: Fishtoes2000

Post Number: 197
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have taken out-of-state visitors on the Cut and they found the graffiti absolutely stunning. It's definitely a huge positive for the greenway, which explains why those involved in the project are trying to preserve it.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1044
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've not seen the graffiti. I like it on Boxcars, but not so much on permanent structures though.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 223
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Good then I won't have to deal with tourists or children while enjoying the graffiti.



And the last thing Detroit needs is a place for tourists and children, right?
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Hockey_player
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Username: Hockey_player

Post Number: 326
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "Graffiti is the artwork of the repressed. Of the urban context. Unless you have studied it and the reasons for it. I don't think you can speak of it in such a manor"

I didn't know repressed consisted of living in your parents house in Grosse Pointe, or sharing a flat in Midtown while your parents pay for college, because that accurately describes several of the most well-known graffiti "artists" in the city.

It's a longstanding, silly fantasy that these are impoverished inner city kids expressing their irrepressible creativity on the city's buildings and walls. The vast majority are well-to-do white suburbanites in their 20s, or suburban transplants attending WSU and living around campus. Hardly some oppressed minority.
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 278
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 6:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The vast majority are well-to-do white suburbanites in their 20s, or suburban transplants attending WSU and living around campus. Hardly some oppressed minority.



One, you can be repressed in different ways. Female writers can believe that they're railing against society's creation of gender roles. Black writers can rail against racist stereotypes such as the one you mentioned. Hell, artists - irregardless of race, gender, income level, educational level, place of work, place of living - can believe they're being repressed simply because they can't spread or practice what they believe to be art where they want within reason.

And two, no, the vast majority are not CCS/WSU/UDM/WCCC students living off their parents buck. I'm pretty sure I can find a majority that don't fit the profile of..

* Well-to-do (not sure how you want to measure this..)
* White
* Suburbanite
* 20 to 29
* Attends college in Detroit

Don't even give me crap about suburban transplants. And it's not where you're from, it's where you're at.
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Michigansheik
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Username: Michigansheik

Post Number: 188
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 6:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think the original access mid-point was lafayette, guess that has changed but let the work begin, this thing is a good idea.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 864
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 6:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit has more going for it than even those that live their give it credit for. This is the typical graffiti here in Charlotte: http://www.wsoctv.com/news/113 22626/detail.html#
Obviously not very 'professional.' It is not at all artistic. Not sure where I am going with this, but basically the Dequindre Cut graffiti is a great idea of taking what is a negative and turning it into an artistic positive. GO DETROIT!
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 279
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats just gang scrawl. Nothing close to what's down in the cut.
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Hockey_player
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Username: Hockey_player

Post Number: 327
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "And two, no, the vast majority are not CCS/WSU/UDM/WCCC students living off their parents buck. I'm pretty sure I can find a majority that don't fit the profile of..

* Well-to-do (not sure how you want to measure this..)
* White
* Suburbanite
* 20 to 29
* Attends college in Detroit

Don't even give me crap about suburban transplants. And it's not where you're from, it's where you're at."

Have you ever met them or know any of them? Since you haven't, don't groundlessly dispute someone who actually does know who they are, especially based on what you're merely "pretty sure" about.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 305
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 12:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you are repressed to want to express yourself in that way. Not that I have studied it nor the reasons for it. And I don't have any idea how to express anything in any "manor".

Now to unhijack this thread, or at least make up a word. Let's get off the graffiti subthread for a minute. The corridor is not going to host a trail and a light rail line; nobody would locate a train right next to where people are walking and bicycling. A decision was made quite a number of years ago that this corridor will be a trail and nothing but a trail.

I agree Detroit needs better transit, but it won't be in the cut. This is not my opinion; this has been decided, and some time ago at that.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1455
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of the Dequindre Cut, does anyone have picture of the SEMTA trains that used to go through there?
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Neilr
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Username: Neilr

Post Number: 497
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 3:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Transformations in Modern Architecture


Bob, this is my favorite Detroit poster, Transformations in Modern Architecture. It was published in 1979.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 875
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Bob, I had almost forgotten that there was any regional train lines.

http://hometown.aol.com/motran zit/page9.htm
http://www.railroadmichigan.co m/semta01.jpg
http://www.michiganrailroads.c om/RRHX/Railroads/Other/SEMTAR y.htm

What years did SEMTA run trains through there?
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1458
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to say it stopped sometime in the early 80s, maybe 82, or 83.

(Message edited by bob on April 29, 2007)
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1459
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was 1983 when they discontinued the SEMTA trains, according to railroadmichigan.com.
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Russix
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Username: Russix

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 7:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This would be really neat if the old trolley cars ran from New Center down the Dequindre Cut making a turn along the riverfront then circling around Belle Isle. Hell, just run the trolley around Belle Isle crossing the bridge and traffic would be more than adequate to cover its operating costs in the summer.
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Beantown
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Username: Beantown

Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I walked the Dequindre Cut yesterday from the river to Eastern Market. Here are a few pics - I wish I would have taken more...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/5 8485135@N00/sets/72157600210324867/

(Message edited by beantown on May 13, 2007)
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Mdoyle
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Username: Mdoyle

Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 2:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...patiently waiting for work to begin on the paved pathway.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 979
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott wrote, "...nobody would locate a train right next to where people are walking and bicycling."

In Ann Arbor, a fence was recently built along the NS/Amtrak line by Barton Pond, and a trail built next to it.
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 300
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 8:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beantown, what time were you down there? I rode over it and saw a couple people with backpacks down just north of the Gratiot Bridge taking flicks. You might've been the ones I saw.
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Beantown
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Username: Beantown

Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 9:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sticks - our little posse exited the cut on the northwest edge of the Gratiot bridge (around 1:30pm), so if you saw people north of the bridge, it probably wasn't us. I like the thought that more people are getting interested in it as well.

On a side note, after that long walk in the sun, I'm not sure an Oberon at Eastern Market ever tasted so good...
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 351
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie,

OK, but you miss my point. In the case you mention, the rail line already existed and the path was built later. My claim is nobody will build a new rail line next to an existing path, and I doubt anyone can find a contradictory example of that.

Professor Scott
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 301
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beantown, could have been your group I saw. I think I rode by Eastern Market around 2pm before taking some shots of the northern entrance of the yard.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 539
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott, I think the order of the two ROW's construction is non consequential because in the end there is a rail line next to a walking path. If that was an undesirable combination aesthetically, logistically, safety wise or whatever, it wouldnt occur at all irregardless of the order so Burnsie's example seems to make sense to me
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Diesel
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Username: Diesel

Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice pictures beantown, I'm going to have to make my way down there again. That area has unbelievable potential and I just wish they would move forward with this project. I like the MMW shirt by the way, I'm looking forward to their performance at the Jazzfest '07

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