Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 To All The Idiots Who Drive From Downtown Previous Next
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 538
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 6:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, so not everyone is an idiot, but I have to tell you there are plenty out there.

Coming from downtown everyday, I take the Lodge to I 94. Now everyone and their mamas know that the Lodge goes down to one lane at I94. So tell me why in the hell do people drive the left lane and middle lane all the way to the end. Causing major traffic back ups. If everyone would enter the freeway and immediately go into the right lane, there would be no traffic back ups.

But, to all the idiots out there...you make me sick!!!
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 997
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 6:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^^LMAO. That's everywhere. It happened before when we were heading to Cleveland on I-75. They do that trying to enter the freeway AT Moross AND I-94. You'll always have those dummies.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 436
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 6:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know why they do it as well as I do. Because despite the fact you'd like to believe that good will triumph over jackass, it doesn't, and those people will cruise way up past you and force themselves in at the last second and be way up ahead of all the good, logic following people that know if they all got in the right lane right away, everybody would get to work faster.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1000
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 6:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's funny is people make sure that person doesn't get in. A the 94/Moross entrance, This car moved up quickly once he/she seemed a smarty trying to get over (blinker). He kept pushing and letting go of the brake making sure he/she got close enough to the car in front of it as possible to keep the smarty from getting over.

It always works though because there's a nice "christian" in the proper lane that will be kind enough to let them in. This happened during the I-94 construction starting at Vernier
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1378
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 7:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It makes NO sense NOT to use all available lane space. The most efficient, and fastest, way to get everyone through is to use all available lanes and "zipper" at the merge.

Do some looking online about this. It has been proven in traffic studies. In fact, many construction zones now have signs that tell people to do exactly that.

If you are 3 miles from the merge, why would/should people all move into one lane before they have to? Just doesn't make sense. You are wasting available capacity by doing that.

People think they're being rude. I've seen truckers block the shoulders to keep people from doing this. Those who DON'T wait until the end to zipper are the idiots.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 7:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's just doesn't make sense. You're irritating everyone else on the roadway (remind you who's doing the good, curtious driving) by using 60 seconds to get into the lane when you should of already been over there. It's not the lane usage that's the problem. It's merging that's the problem.
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Ladyinabag
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Username: Ladyinabag

Post Number: 240
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 7:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that freeways in rush hour are a waste of life. I usually take the surface streets and my little short cuts that I have discovered over the years. I get sooooo annoyed.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 850
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 7:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerome81, those that pass 'in the extra space' esp. on the shoulder are THE MOST ANNOYING. Don't be one or I might just happen to bump you with my beat up car some day. I love no fault insurance!!!
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1012
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 7:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think that freeways in rush hour are a waste of life. I usually take the surface streets and my little short cuts that I have discovered over the years. I get sooooo annoyed."

Surface streets are the best. Less traffic and everything.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lodge to 94 East?

No.

Lodge to Forest/Warren exit. Ride Warren faster than 94 rush hour all through the Eastside.

Word.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 925
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To all of those idiots:

If you can take a bus, take it. There. Problem solved.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1014
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Lodge to Forest/Warren exit. Ride Warren faster than 94 rush hour all through the Eastside."

Mack, Gratiot, Harper even Signal Light of a nightmare Jefferson is faster than I-94.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1015
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"To all of those idiots:

If you can take a bus, take it. There. Problem solved."

Funny thing about idiots is that they think their too good for things such as buses. So it's a no-win situation with them around.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 798
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If you are 3 miles from the merge, why would/should people all move into one lane before they have to? Just doesn't make sense. You are wasting available capacity by doing that.



Throughput is what needs to be maximized, not "available capacity" (whatever that means). We know that throughput (cars per hour) will be reduced because of the lane closure and what is needed is a strategy that maximizes the number of cars per hour that can get through the bottleneck.

The best strategy is for everyone in the upcoming closed lane to merge into the adjacent lane as soon as they see the sign identifying their lane as the closed one and to do so by inserting themselves into the first available open space before drivers start hitting their brakes. In light traffic the "zippering" can be accomplished without anyone braking at a point very close to the final merge point. In heavier traffic, the "zippering" must occur farther away from the final merge point to avoid braking in the through lane. With heavy traffic, as soon as someone cuts into the through lane and causes the car behind them to brake and slow considerably, it sets up a "standing wave" at that point and everyone who approaches that spot will also have to brake and throughput drops drastically.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1017
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg is right. That is why we have those nice orange signs or electronics black thingys alerting the smarties 5 MILES AWA.Y
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 926
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Signal Light of a nightmare Jefferson"

LOL! I second that one. Hit one light and you are dead.

As for the buses, it was worth a shot. :-)
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 348
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg, you are right on.Too bad NOBODY in Michigan is this smart. What you get is drivers seeing a chance to 'cut in', and messing up the entire cha-cha. This is why I advocate we carry (and use) arms in our cars.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2007
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Bernadette Headd


(Message edited by Jimaz on April 25, 2007)
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3276
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

...what is needed is a strategy that maximizes the number of cars per hour that can get through the bottleneck.


In full agreement with Jerome: Studies indicate that late merging (nearest the point of lane closure) increases throughput in heavy traffic. Drop your sensitive ego and use all lanes to the point of lane closure.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2009
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is there some way a compromise could be engineered into the roadway? Perhaps a buzz strip that gets gradually louder as the lane closes?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1019
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You mean you agree with Mikeg, Mikem? you quoted him but agreed with Jerome.

(Message edited by Urbanize on April 25, 2007)
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3277
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

In full agreement with Jerome

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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1020
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, just making sure.
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Harsensis
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Username: Harsensis

Post Number: 266
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always like to do the rolling roadblock like the trucks do. Usually the person I'm shadowing figures out what I am doing and I slip in just before the lane disappears and the traffic keeps moving. You really have to have a bigger vehicle to do it, it never worked when I drove a honda or a sundance.
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 311
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've seen signal controlled merge points. Why don't we use those?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1025
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I always like to do the rolling roadblock like the trucks do. Usually the person I'm shadowing figures out what I am doing and I slip in just before the lane disappears and the traffic keeps moving. You really have to have a bigger vehicle to do it, it never worked when I drove a honda or a sundance"

Ever got in a Car Fight with another SUV or car for that spot in the lane? Or do you just luck up with the nice "christian" drivers (no offense).
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 933
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is really bad when you come around a corner at 70 MPH, don't know about the construction, see the backup with a van blocking your way to keep from going all the way up and you have almost no time to slow down and merge. That was annoying.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1027
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, I will quote myself, and MDOT almost always is effective with these.

"That is why we have those nice orange signs or electronics black thingys alerting the smarties 5 MILES AWAY."

Another sign of knowing that construction is coming up is when you see the person in front of you slowing up merging. The smart driver I feel would follow that person.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 800
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "late merge" study concluded that:

The late merge produced a statistically significant increase in throughput volume for only the 3-to-1-lane closure configuration and was beneficial across all factors for this type of closure. For the 2-to-1 and 3-to-2 lane closure configurations, the late merge increased throughput when the percentage of heavy vehicles was large.


In other words, the increased throughput from the "late merge" strategy was statistically significant only when 2 of 3 lanes were merged into 1 lane. The more common 2 to 1 and 3 to 2 lane merges only benefited from "late merge" if there was a high proportion of heavy vehicles in the traffic mix (they accelerate slower than smaller vehicles, opening gaps that enable late merges).
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Boshna
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Username: Boshna

Post Number: 173
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Construction zones in Pennsylvania have begun to use a system that specifies merge points for optimal traffic flow. These points are monitored by the highway patrol, who enforce violations strictly. Whether it has made any difference or not, I do not know.
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Kilgore_south
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Username: Kilgore_south

Post Number: 219
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 10:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I drive in Pennsylvania all the time and I can tell you it has not made a difference. Most of the time the signs just say "USE BOTH LANES TO MERGE POINT" and then "MERGE HERE, TAKE YOUR TURN." As if people are going to politely do the 'zipper merge' when the time comes. It doesn't happen. Most of the time you have 2+ mile backups.

A couple of years ago around Kalamazoo I saw a system where they had flashing signs that said LANE CLOSED AHEAD, MERGE HERE; and then a few hundred feet up there were DO NOT PASS signs. If you didn't get over soon enough and were still trying to pass people, friendly Kalamazoo County Sheriff's deputies would pull you over. It really seemed to keep traffic moving pretty well. I think they used the same system a couple of years ago on M-53 way up in Macomb County.

PS, I'm a trucker and I specialize in the rolling roadblock. :-)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 937
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 10:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep it up. I just hope I don't have to run into you at some point in time. :-)
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Ro_resident
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Username: Ro_resident

Post Number: 222
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 10:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suspect that dynamic late merging (i.e., using all lanes available with signage to help people along) is the most efficient use of the road when lanes are taken away. The throughput is maximized--more cars per hour are able to pass through the choke point.

In most cases, dynamic early merging creates a longer queue, but tends to raise the average speed of each car.

Typical merging is probably the least efficient of the merging methods.

One professor at Wayne State is a pretty big proponent of dynamic early merging, FWIW.
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Detroite
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Username: Detroite

Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol Jimaz
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Amy_p
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Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 783
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 11:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mental midgets. Just like the tools on the commuter bus who fill up aisle seats in front first, so everyone has to smash into them to get to the back.

Note: I should clarify that I used to be a waste-these-lanes-and-line-up-now midget, until the zipper logic set in to take over infantile emotion and replace it with reason. Zip, people!

(Message edited by Amy P. on April 26, 2007)
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 301
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 11:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sad fact is, you take three lanes down to one or two, you're going to have a jam-up no matter how people behave.

If we had better transit, that would be an option. During the I-94 construction in Macomb County (the Prof lives out yonder), so many people have opted for Gratiot that the buses are also slowed down. Ah, for trains (sigh).

I do agree with Urbanize that if you can find a good surface route, take it. Driving from Dearborn through Detroit I find the traffic often bunches up from west of downtown to the City Airport area, so I often take 75 (Fisher) past where Joe Muer's used to be onto Gratiot, then immediate right to Vernor. This moves pretty well until it dead ends at the Chrysler plant, then you turn left, right onto Mack, left onto Conner and back onto 94. I'm not sure it really saves any time but it's much less annoying :-)

When I'm driving between downtown and UDM, I find there are many substitutes for the Lodge (and Woodward isn't one of them). Twelfth/Fourteenth works pretty well and there are other options. Of course, if you're going all the way to Southfield or beyond, that doesn't work; but at least it gets you partway.

How are all you Lodge-dodgers getting around nowadays? Curious.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 1053
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it really about the lanes or about the zipper?

If people would let each other in, wherever, that would be nice.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 272
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 8:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always try to do the rolling road block thing with my saturn Ion which amuses me greatly because I won't back down. One day a car that was an idiot I believe a Green Grand Prix actually was equiped with a police siren but looked like a business man, They were pissed when I wouldn't let them by. If they had a light to put on top maybe I would have let them by.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1265
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


d
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9016
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By not moving even with a horn honk you were violating the right of way laws...they don't have wording in the Driver's Handbook about lights, only sound.


Mikeg,
Funny you'd mention standing waves, now which of these types of merges cause the most and strongest 'echoes' of those standing waves travelling upstream?! At each periodic harmonic of that standing wave, there is a higher accident potential.

When they were studying the LA freeway system, there were all sorts of data showing these phantom accident spots at certain points of the system...which turned out to be harmonic turbulence from intersections and lane closures FAR downstream.

I'm sure the slope of the lane closure, how quickly the lane is cut, would influence the strength of the harmonic. It would all depend upon how hard the mergers had to jam on their brakes...along with how dense the traffic, how hard the people just behind the mergers had to jam on their brakes.
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Udmphikapbob
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Username: Udmphikapbob

Post Number: 337
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://amasci.com/amateur/traf fic/seatraf.html

animation of optimal merging techniques

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