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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 541
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I tried, I really did. We have always had a Ford Or a GM car/truck. My grandfather and dad worked at GM, my MIL at Fords. But this is the end. Gas is 2.95 up here, The Traverse City paper is saying gas will be 4.00 by summer.
I am going to trade in my Explorer for something, anything that is 4-wheel drive and gets better gas mileage. You can bet it wont be a Ford or a GM, probably a Kia or a Honda.....sorry guys, as a life long, GM and Ford driver,I hang my head in shame, but, I have to jump ship.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 666
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gas is really that high already?! Wow. Oil isn't even 70/barrel yet...
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Cushkid
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Username: Cushkid

Post Number: 77
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whats wrong with the Escape or Equinox, Test drive then make your choice the Rav4 and Sportage aren't much different
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 542
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whats wrong with the Escape or Equinox, Test drive then make your choice the Rav4 and Sportage aren't much different


Cause the Kia place will pay off our loan and they have like what, a 10 warrenty on their cars? Fords doesnt.......but I will keep my options opened, I HAVE to get better gas mileage though
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Come on....you mean to tell me that you can't find anything from GM, Ford or Chrysler that would suit your needs? You SHOULD hang your head in shame. Yours is one of the lamest excuses that people use to purchase foreign and put the Big 3 in the crapper, put Michigan in the crapper, distinguish Michigan as the biggest foreclosure market in the nation...look at todays Free Press, Business Section, "Detroit tops in takeover of houses, auto industry's troubles seen in 1st quarter data". What you drive, drives America!
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 543
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and gas prices drive what I drive. When you pay my bills, you can tell me what to drive
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 1095
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

10 year powertrain warranty...Lots of companies offer something like that.

What about GM's 10 yr / 100,000 warranty?

I believe GM is the leader in fuel economy among 4x4 vehicles. I know this is true among large SUV's.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 544
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dont want a LARGE SUV, and I said I am keeping my options opened, any company that has what I want with great gas mileage will get my business.

Do you know that I could have had a brand new Kia for the same amout that I paid for my used 2000(I think its a 2000) Explorer? Thats crazy.

I get the feeling I wont be able to afford a new Gm or Ford, but I will a Kia or Honda.....this really sucks
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 710
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about an Escape hybrid? And isn't GM coming out with hybrid SUV's too?
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93typhoon
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Username: 93typhoon

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the VUE comes with 10 yr warrenty and has good gas mileage - a hybrid is optional - the escape is also hybrid optional. Quality ratings for both are on par with Honda (who has slipped lately)
A new VUE will be out in a couple months and looks great.

I don't know haw many miles you drive or how long you have owned your Explorer - but do the math and find out how much $$ you will save each year and how much your new car payment will be. When i ran my numbers - It was much cheaper to just keep my car for another two years - then i will be payment free!
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 79
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"and gas prices drive what I drive. When you pay my bills, you can tell me what to drive"

Give the profits to foreign automakers, live in Michigan and watch what happens in the not so near future. It won't just be your bills you worry about.

I am adament about this, WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! Or how about "OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN".
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Track75
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Username: Track75

Post Number: 2521
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do your homework first. Otherwise you sound ignorant.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov

Fuel economy leaders for small 4x4 SUVs are

Ford Escape Hybrid (32/29 MPG)
Mercury Mariner Hybrid (32/29 MPG)
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (31/27 MPG)
Saturn Vue Hybrid (27/32)
Jeep Compass (manual) (25/29)
Jeep Liberty (manual) (25/29)

Then comes the RAV4 (23/27), and further down the list is the Kia (22/26).

I don't have a problem with someone buying what they want, domestic or foreign (unless they're some big "buy American" booster who flip-flops when their dogma starts to cost them money). But to go spend $15K - $25K for a new vehicle in order to save best case scenario $1K per year on gas seems dumb. If money is a concern, keep your current vehicle.
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Wazootyman
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Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 201
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I drive a 2007 Vue, and even with my lead foot I still get 22 MPG (mostly city)...in an SUV.

Why don't you tell us what you're looking for so we can suggest a domestic model or two that might meet your needs? Or, is this more of an "in your face", since you're already convinced you need a Honda or Kia?

Your Explorer is a truck, with a powerful engine and towing capacity. Does it really shock you that it gets lower fuel economy?
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Naturalsister
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Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 882
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Track75 is on the case!

later - naturalsister
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1800
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Yours is one of the lamest excuses that people use to purchase foreign and put the Big 3 in the crapper, put Michigan in the crapper, distinguish Michigan as the biggest foreclosure market in the nation



Get off your high horse, this is America and miss_cleo can purchase any vehicle she chooses. Michigan is not in the crapper becuase of the consumers like miss_cleo, it is in the crapper becuase people still have not learned anything in the past 40 years.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 66
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the big 3 (I call them the big 3 losers) are coming around in certain models, finally.

I liken the Big 3, to 3 old, fat, men, who have been extremely successful for most of their adult lives, this translates into arrogance and ignorance to what is occurring around them.

Its true Ford, GM, and Chrysler have some vehicles that can compete in this global market.

Some would say, to little to late, others may say, better late than never.

This is the last round boys (Big 3) make or break.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you considered a crossover instead? What about something like the Edge?
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 80
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get off your high horse, this is America and miss_cleo can purchase any vehicle she chooses. Michigan is not in the crapper becuase of the consumers like miss_cleo, it is in the crapper becuase people still have not learned anything in the past 40 years.

It's not a "high horse" I'm on my friend, it's a reality that Americans must face. Yes, everyone has a right to purchase whatever they want. Michigan automakers may have made some mistakes along the way, but this is still America and if you don't support Americans and it's products then it won't just be high gas costs to worry about, it will be healthcare, home costs, schooling and a long list of daily expenses that no one will be able to afford. It's bad enough that we are forced to purchase items made in China, Japan, etc. To keep our country strong, you have to support it, even if you don't agree with certain things. Detroit is The Motor City. Why do you think that is? Does Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia or whatever support Michigan? I think not. Do you see HONDA in big letters on RenCen? I think not. Michigan had the distinction of being the auto capital of the world. It would be nice if that could stay that way and keep our economy strong. Buy whatever you want, but don't complain later. At least I am doing my part.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1570
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Buyamerican, I’ll say this very politely:

Screw you.

You have no right to tell others what they “should” drive. This is America, a free country. Anyone has a right to choose any vehicle from the marketplace.

I too, bought only American vehicles for 35 years. I’m about to take delivery on my first new Japanese vehicle early next week.

I’ll clue you in on something: as they say, “it’s the product, stupid.”

There is NO inexpensive (under $18,000 new) U.S.-made or U.S.-branded non-hybrid vehicle that gets close to 40 mpg. I'm not talking about hybrids here because the initial purchase price is just too high.

It came down to a choice between the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris for me. Again, the U.S. automakers don’t produce anything like those two in terms of economy and build quality (please don’t mention the “Chevy” Aveo, it’s a Daewoo piece of junk that gets only around 25 mpg in the city; and the Ford Focus also gets mediocre mpg for its class).

I chose the Yaris. The hatchback style is versatile, the engine will likely run for over 150,000 miles for me, it will average around 34-36 mpg, and it is costing me less than $16,000, fully equipped. Plus, it’s manufactured in Japan. Given the track record of Japanese-built cars over the past 15 years, it’s a safe bet to assume it will have much better than average build quality.

The key issue is that the U.S. automakers need to raise their own bar in terms of fuel economy. That means (for most vehicles), a minimum of about 28-30 in the city; 37-40+ on the highway. As Miss Cleo has articulated, the things that are beginning to matter most to the average U.S. new auto buyer are cost of purchase and cost to operate (while maintaining reliability and build quality).

Gasoline may hit $4.00 or even $4.50 in summer 2008. It will keep going up, because Americans have demonstrated that they will pay ANY price for it.

The domestic automakers are failing to provide what the customer wants (and are failing to react quickly to market shifts… the plain fact is, they want to continue to build large SUVS, not smaller cars). If they die, it’s their own fault. No sympathy here, none whatsoever.

And if the Michigan economy stays in the toilet for awhile, so be it. That's what we get for tying ourselves to one industry (in the '40s, there were probably people who waxed nostalgic about Detroit once being the tobacco or stove capital of the U.S.). Times change. Maybe by 2040, Detroit can be the paper clip or the shoelace or the computer microwhatzit capital, and become prosperous again.

As for automobiles, the balance of power has already shifted to the Far East. That's tough, but that's the truth.

(Message edited by Fury13 on April 26, 2007)
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1801
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The key issue is that the U.S. automakers need to raise their own bar in terms of fuel economy.



They also have to cut costs to make production of those vehicles profitable.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 545
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you considered a crossover instead? What about something like the Edge?

I keep hearing *crossover*. What does that mean exactly?

I as I have stated before, I am not against buying an American car, IF I can find one thats fits my budget and gets high enough gas mileage.....and if that turns out to be a Kia or a Honda or whatever, instead of American, its not MY fault.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4272
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You must feel guilty. If you didnt you wouldnt have started this thread.
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think a lot depends on your specific situation. If you are "in town" up there, almost any cross-over will save you on fuel economy. If you are further out in the sticks, you may require a true 4x4. A cross-over is based on unibody construction, like most cars. A true SUV is based on a truck frame. Cross-overs give you the room of a SUV and all-wheel drive, but are not as rugged as truck based SUVs. Your Exploder is a truck-based SUV. Both of the imports you mentioned are cross-overs.

If you are still "upside down" on your Exploder, any dealer will "pay off your loan." That is never dictated by the dealer themselves, it is all through the bank. And whatever you still owe will be put into your new loan.

If you can still get employee plan discount, you will still save money in the long run on a Ford or GM over an import. And if you drive less than 15000 miles a year, you will likely save money by leasing.

That being said, I use my Ford discount on Mazdas. I will say, however, that the Edge is a very impressive vehicle.

(Message edited by abracadabra on April 26, 2007)
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 546
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To address another post here. I NEED 4-wheel drive, no ifs ands or buts, cant make it through winters up here without one.

I NEED good gas mileage, something that is dependable, great warrenty.

I dont need all the bells and whistles, no heated seats, sun roof, etc, etc....power windows and locks and ac is enough....I dont even really care what it looks like....

but we go camping and off-roading etc, so it has to seat 5 and have hauling room......most important is 4-wheel drive HAVE to have it.

I am very open to all your suggestions fitting these descriptions.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 547
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no way I will drive less than 1500 per year, its 250 miles one way back to Detroit, which I do several times a year.....and I am in the sticks and NEED 4-wheel drive. Heck I got stuck a few times this past winter with having it.
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Gildas
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Username: Gildas

Post Number: 954
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miss_cleo,

Please make the best choice for yourself and don't think twice about what anyone says.

Like you, I have always bought and used American built vehicles (currently, my family has a Crown Vic and an Expedition.) However my next vehicle will likely NOT be American. Not because of gas prices, I really don't care about that (when I factor cost of gas per gallons used in a year, it's not much money, just a political scare tactic.)

I just cannot support the UAW and their ways of doing business and if I can, in my small way help to kill that organization, then to me, that is better for MI in the long run then any vehicle I could purchase.

Just my thoughts, now please go ahead and "flame" my opinions, they tend to mean as much to me as the UAW.
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hehe, not 1500, 15000.

All of the SUVs from Honda, Kia, or Hyundai are all car-based SUVs. This explains the differences bet. 4x4 and AWD :

http://ask.yahoo.com/20000817.html

Edit - changed link

(Message edited by abracadabra on April 26, 2007)
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Carolcb
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Username: Carolcb

Post Number: 486
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK here is more guilty - My friends who work for Ford - Drive free cars - Free Lincolns, free Escapes - Free Mustangs. The insurance, as I understand it is also paid for by Ford. The gas is paid by Ford, as well as their car washes.

I keep wondering what I could do financially if we were not paying 395.31 for our GM - which broke down in the highway with less than 300 miles on it in the left lane because the computer told it to - If we were not paying $220.00 a month for insurance - and if we weren't paying God knows what the total is for gas each month.

My friends are not that high on the totem pole. Who else gets this type of break in the US?
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The auto industry provided/es one of the best quality of livings in the free world per capita for it's workers and subs. Funny how folks will turn their backs on it so quickly to save a few dollars.

Buying an American made product is an investment in it's future. If your quality of living and America isn't worth investing in, then invest somewhere else.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1033
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel your pain Ms Cleo, but I could not own a rice burner, except to maybe trash it off road or something.

When the gas gets too high around here I plan on biking to work, or using SMART. It works out on the days I don't have night classes. For those scenarios you are buying NO gas, that's the best way to hit them , is right in the profit margin.
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Carolcb
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Username: Carolcb

Post Number: 487
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am still driving my Plymouth.....
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2566
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you say you go camping, Do you tent it or do you pull a trailer? If you pull a trailer how big is it? If you pull a trailer you need to look carefully at the towing capability of the smaller SUV's. The small cross over based ones can't tow shit. No frame = limited towing capabilities.

If you're actually off roading with your vehicle, you are going to sorely miss the explorer. Just because a vehicle has 4 wheel drive doesn't mean it can go off road. Most of the Cute-Utes weren't designed to actually go off road.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 548
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We tent camp, and we can always off road in my husbands F-150........see, we will still have at least ONE American made car, feel better

and when I just paid a 300+ gas card bill, money becomes an issue as does gas mileage.....there has to be something better than my Explorer out there
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5281
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two points, the UAW once set wages. GM paid the wages. Now Wal-Mart sets the wages. Shop-floor wages are $10.21/hr. At the same time, American manufacturing jobs are evaporating like water in Arizona. So if you make $10.21, you CANNOT AFFORD A CAR!

Secondly, pay cash for your ride. Drive the old beater and pay yourself the payment until you fucking can AFFORD a car. Drive Grandma's car until you can afford one. Car payments or any loans on depreciating assets is financial suicide.

jjaba is an old guy, drove nice newer cars, and never ever would pay the juice to the loan sharks. The car companies, Japanese-Korean-American, line their pockets with your interest and yet, not one of you pointed this out.

Miss cleo, save you pennies. Imagine a lifetime of no car payments, yet always having a nice car or two of them in garage. Remember the old saying on Livernois, "Money talks, bullshit walks."

jjaba, tells it like it tis.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1019
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I just cannot support the UAW and their ways of doing business and if I can, in my small way help to kill that organization, then to me, that is better for MI in the long run then any vehicle I could purchase."

Just know there are plenty of non-UAW people who are affected from this sort of thing as well, including engineers, dealership employees, auto suppliers, accountants, IT professionals, secretaries, mail room clerks, etc.

The auto companies employ many more people beyond UAW members
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 549
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it isnt the car payments that hurt, they stay the same. Gas goes up every week, THATS what hurts
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Queensfinest
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Username: Queensfinest

Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe instead of arguing over what types of cars to buy, or from where to buy them, michigan should start looking towards moving away from their complete reliance on automobiles.

Any successful city or region in the country is doing just that. You'll see all kinds of accompanying benefits too, healthier slimmer people everywhere, less pollution, safe and lively streetlife in neighborhoods!

You'd think by now that one of the former "big 3" would have had the initiative to develop a program to make a profit off of the huge number of trains, busses, and other public transit vehicles and infrastructure that will be needed in our country in the future.

I read yesterday that Kansas City plans to link their city and suburbs with light rail. Kansas City for christ's sakes!

These companies should use their resources and technology to develop something, anything, that will ensure their survival and profit, before they all go under. What's the problem?
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1036
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm with you there Jjaba, I've not had a car payment for the last 5 years, it is nice! I bought a decent running truck at the Auction for a grand, some sweat equity, and some repair work It runs like a champ.


When I'm back in the black though, there's an Escalade at Dagleish's with my name on it.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 550
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My husbands truck is paid for has been for years. Only reason we have a payment now is cause we turned in a lease when we moved up here
Its low and affordable, and I will never lease again, after the lease is up, you have nothing to show for it.

It gas going up every week that is hurting us.....gee, I guess if our pay went up every week as well.....
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For one, Kia is the laughing stock of the car industry. They are cheaply made and their SUV's provide the comfort of a GEO Metro with the roll over possibility of a Bronco.

On the gas issue, they said gas would be $5.00 about 2 years ago, this last Thanksgiving I got gas for $1.98!!!! In DETROIT!!!!!!! Shows how well they can predict this kind of thing...
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1020
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"it isnt the car payments that hurt, they stay the same. Gas goes up every week, THATS what hurts"

In reality though, you're probably only going to soften that hurt by a couple of hundred bucks a year (which is likely less than a single car payment) by buying a car w/ lower fuel economy because you still have to pay for gas to fuel that new car as well, and gas prices are high whether you buy a high fuel economy vehicle or a lower fuel economy vehicle...

It's understandable to look at that $3,000 a year gasoline bill and become motivated to do something about it...but unless you stop driving cars altogether, the most you can do is make a small dent in that figure...you aren't going to be saving anywhere close to $3,000 though...you might bring it down to $2,700, which would be nice, but just make sure you don't end up w/ a higher car payment to get it otherwise that would defeat the purpose...

(Message edited by thejesus on April 26, 2007)
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 552
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah, I have to do more thinking about this.....wether to just keep the Explorer or try for something else.....I never expected to save that much, and yes, it will still cost the same to fill it up, BUT you can drive longer between fill up, there fore spending less at the pump.

Kslice, gas is 2.95 here, and going up every week....I would LOVE to pay 1.98, but we are never going to see that price again
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Defendbrooklyn
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Username: Defendbrooklyn

Post Number: 119
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For the freaks who think you are a non-patriotic devil if you happen to buy Honda or Toyota....

What exactly is your loyalty to the big 3? This phenomena has always amazed me. The big 3, through clever marketing, along with other cultural forces, have brain washed the population into thinking that American cars are superior to foreign cars…and if you don’t buy American you are not one… You strangely loyal people act like the big 3 cares about you as well as gives 2 shits about Michigan...

News flash, they don’t care about you and/or the state. If PR was going to be a problem they would have every factory over seas...How much evidence do you need to see the fact that corporations don’t care about people, states, or countries. Flint in the 80's...hello!

Do your loyalties stop at the automobile? If so why not shirts, bikes, kitchen appliances etc…

Living in a capitalist system prevents you from exclusively buying American... In order to live we are put in positions to buy products we need and can only buy products we can afford. Where the product is being made is out of the individual’s (not masses) control. Lower classes of society are cornered and can only spend X amount on a variety of goods…Therefore, we need to get the best quality goods for our dollar. Furthermore, people shop at Wall-Mart for a reason…They can buy the same goods for cheaper…When this occurs people free up money to allocate to other life oriented expenses.

Again, its not the populations fault the big 3 are slow to change and provide a product that people don’t want or need.
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Jeep Liberty will likely be the cheapest truck-based SUV with a true 4x4 option. They get great gas mileage (for what it is, at least)

On the down side, they are possible the ugliest vehicle in the Chrysler lineup, and that's saying a lot. And it goes down the road like a giant turd on a roller skate. I think its no longer made, but I am sure there are a ton on dealer lots still.

It all depends on you. If I were in your position, I would test drive the Americans : Jeep Liberty and Patriot, Ford Escape and Edge, and Chevy Equinox or it's GM clones. Japanese : Honda CRV, Toyota Rav4, Mazda CX-7. Korean : Kia Sportage

My favorite web resource for vehicles is edmunds.com
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 553
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for some actual help Abracadabra!
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2567
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Jeep Liberty is still in production and a solid seller for Jeep. It is near the end of the current look. It's due for freshening before the end of this year.

(2008 Liberty)
http://www.thecarconnection.co m/zoom-image.asp?image=/images /scrapbook/thumbnails/3840.jpg &ititle=2008%20Jeep%20Liberty& idesc=&year=2008&make=JEEP&mod el=Liberty
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5284
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chevy Equinox has an engine from China and assembled in Ontario. That's more of a world car, not domestic.

GM sells 100,000 Buicks a month in China.
With these foreign plants, GM continues to be about tied with Toyota in all-vehicles category.

jjaba.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 67
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Auto Plants Hiring:

But there Toyota and Honda:

http://www.wthr.com/Global/sto ry.asp?s=6246382

http://www.wthr.com/Global/sto ry.asp?s=6404159

Month after month…

It seems like one of the Big 3, is announcing another closing or yet another lay-off.

However:

2007 is turning out to be a banner year for Toyota, Honda, and Kia.

Kia, which had it’s best ever first quarter sales record of 73,603 units, a 13.5-percent increase over the same period last year, boosted by the company's best March sales ever.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1385
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeep Patriot. Cool lookin little truck, great price. 4 cyl. Get it with a manual and it gets 30mpg on the highway.

Otherwise 4 cyl or hybrid Escape or Saturn VUE. Chevy Equinox. Pontiac Torrent. Mazda CX-7 (it is a Ford).

Also remember that you will pay taxes on any new car you buy. Say it is $1300 in taxes. You can buy a lot of "extra" gas for $1300. It almost never pays to change cars just to save on fuel costs. If it is time to change anyway, then ok, but don't change just because.

As to the Kia and HOnda, I'm assuming you're talking Sorrento and CR-V, yes? Check real-world mileage. I don't think the Sorrento gets very good (it is V6 only, right?) and the CR-V is rather expensive.

Buy what you wanna buy. But look at everything before you decide to jettison the Explorer or automatically default to another brand, especially if you don't want to.

As a nice tool, you can try this: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/mp g/MPG.do?action=browseList It is EPA website where people can post their real-world MPG. There generally aren't huge sample sets, but still worth a look. You might be surprised sometimes.

Do you need a SUV? What about a Fusion All-Wheel-Drive?

And check out that jeep! http://www.jeep.com/en/patriot /index.html
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4273
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look, I am going to buy a car from a company that helps Detroit’s economy. Last I checked, Toyota hasn’t done much for the area except a tech center in A2. Honda in Detroit? Hyundai? Nope. How will buying a Toyota help the metro area? Please answer without getting shitty. When Toyota builds a plant or three here, then I will reconsider it.
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 100
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget about the Dodge Nitro, Dodge's version of the Liberty. Much better looking.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 743
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who's going to address legacy costs?

Toyota is subsidized by their government, which gives them an advantage that the domestics don't have, and it's a huge one.

I don't disagree with the fact that the unions have to give back some to adjust to the current global market, but by buying a Toyota, you are giving a vote of confidence and your money to a socialized system.

Isn't that what the repubs are supposed to be against?

(Message edited by matt the Deuce on April 26, 2007)
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2405
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I'd like to know, is what will continued support of the Big Three do to force them to make necessary changes in order to remain competitive?
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 68
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know Toyota and Honda are helping Indiana's economy.

We’re tickled to death to have them here; a job is a job.

If Michigan were a little friendlier to businesses maybe Michigan would have a few more businesses.
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Baltgar
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Username: Baltgar

Post Number: 60
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miss_cleo,

What about the Pontiac Torrent? It is priced in the low 20's and has an AWD drive option. Or like someone else suggested the Jeep Compass? It is also AWD (though manual) Both have mid-high 20 mpg (highway). I am sure you could get some better incentives with these dealers than foreign dealers. Plus GM has the 10 year warranty you are looking for.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2406
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If Michigan were a little friendlier to businesses maybe Michigan would have a few more businesses.



You might want to read the article in this week's Metro Times.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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Baltgar
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Username: Baltgar

Post Number: 61
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Using this website, the Compass (manual) constantly comes up as the best MPG in its class. This is not including hybrids which I am assuming is out of the question cause of cost.

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools /gas_mileage/
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2568
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The jeep Compass AWD Is available with an automatic.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1802
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

but this is still America and if you don't support Americans and it's products then it won't just be high gas costs to worry about, it will be healthcare, home costs, schooling and a long list of daily expenses that no one will be able to afford.



What a shame you bought that hook line and sinker just like the UAW created employee health care and the middle class. These are scare tactics into getting to believe you can not live without the union holding your hand.

I wonder how the other ~90% of the American workforce survives in a surging economy. While we here in Michigan continue a nice downward spiral.

GM Produced 9 million cars and sold 9 million cars but lost 2 billion dollars in 06. But I guess they build cars people don't want.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 75
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: "For the freaks who think you are a non-patriotic devil if you happen to buy Honda or Toyota....

What exactly is your loyalty to the big 3?""

I'm not so sure it's loyalty as much as common sense. Spending American made money on American made products, is what keeps the cycle going. Spending American made money on products made elsewhere, creates a one way dead end path for the revenue. It doesn't come back. Bad investment. Is China going to buy our products when their general population can afford to do so? And when that point finally arrives, what condition will our economy be in?

Quote: "You strangely loyal people act like the big 3 cares about you as well as gives 2 shits about Michigan... News flash, they don’t care about you and/or the state.""

Considering that their Shareholders and CEO's right down to the floor sweepers live and work here, I highly doubt that. Even IF you believe that, we better give a shit about them. Around the Detroit area things are bleak and are not going to get better anytime soon. In spite of the announcements, cutbacks, buyouts etc. everything seems to have stabilized a bit. Ford alone just pumped a large portion of 12 billion dollars into the local economy. Of course its not all that bad yet. That was a one shot deal and that money isn't going to last forever. When it's gone all these folks will be looking for other employment.

Just recently, I have spoke to several whom have been financially secure for years, they are right on the verge of losing everything, going to the bank and turning in their house keys. Walking away from their mortgage.

Talked to friend yesterday, owns a large company here, he's meeting with folks from North Carolina next week to discuss a possible move. It goes on and on..

When the auto industry is hurting we feel it first, The auto ind is woven all through North America including Canada and Mexico.

So buy your foreign cars in NY and CA, drive them proudly. And when it affects you personally, then you'll understand.

Until then, we'll just appear brainwashed :-)
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Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I wonder how the other ~90% of the American workforce survives in a surging economy. While we here in Michigan continue a nice downward spiral. "

They survive by getting worked 50 + hours / week with no OT pay, piss poor medical benefits (if any), that they have to pay a large premium for out of thier weekly pay checks, and living in fear they can be terminated at any time for any reason. Yeah!! Talk about progress!
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1576
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They survive by getting worked 50 + hours / week with no OT pay, piss poor medical benefits (if any), that they have to pay a large premium for out of thier weekly pay checks, and living in fear they can be terminated at any time for any reason."

Cambrian, this will become the norm again in the USA. It'll be back to 1910. The unions and legacy costs have made it all inevitable.

No longer will a guy with only a high-school education be able to waltz in to GM or Ford, get a job on an assembly line, and within a few years reap $70,000 a year with primo benefits. That kind of thing is going by the wayside -- fast.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1040
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Cambrian, this will become the norm again in the USA. "


You can bite the pillow and take your screwing, or you can vote the union in.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 81
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Sstashmoo and others on this forum who grasp my point. To Fury13, ditto.
All of you out there who feel you have the right to purchase foreign, go for it because you absolutely do have that right. Just don't complain down the line somewhere when your healthcare is gone or your stock portfolio gets smaller or your house goes into foreclosure because the American economy can't survive because Toyota, Honda, Nissan are taking over. Profits from foreign don't stay here. Foreign automakers here in the US don't take care of their employees like American car companies have and would continue to do if it weren't for them. Wait until workers get to retirement age and see what happens to them. Can't you see the handwriting on the wall? You perceive that foreign is better, you perceive that foreign is more dependable. I've got news, American cars, trucks, SUV's, etc., are and always have been good, dependable automobiles.
Please go to www.levelfieldinstitute.org and read up on domestic versus foreign.
Again, I never said Americans didn't have a right to purchase what they wanted. My point is that there will be severe consequenses in the years to come if Americans don't support America.
I can't make it any plainer than that.
WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 376
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i drive a 4 cylinder dodge neon with a kill switch and club. theft free in the middle of detroit (even though it's always filled with crap), cheap, has good pickup, runs wonderfully, and gets GREAT mileage. ... what about a ford fusion? those are GREAT looking... actually... out of ANY car priced under, say, 30k, near the top of the list for my PERSONAL choice would be the ford fusion (judging on looks alone...)
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1579
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cambrian, EVERYONE is going to take that "screwing," sooner or later.

I prefer to see it as a brave new world... a little harder, a little meaner.

" I've got news, American cars, trucks, SUV's, etc., are and always have been good, dependable automobiles... "

Buyamerican, that statement there is an out-and-out falsehood. Most of the US-built vehicles in the '70s and '80s were real pieces of ca-ca. Undependable, gas-sucking, prone to rust-out and breakdown, cheap paint, loose parts, you name it.

US auto quality was good through the mid-'50s. A little worse from about 1957 to the early '70s, and then it really took a nosedive. Quality didn't come back up in US cars 'til the early '90s at the earliest.

"My point is that there will be severe consequenses (sic) in the years to come if Americans don't support America."

Hmmm, like we didn't support Philco, Zenith, Admiral, etc.... and now our electronics have names like Sony and Mitsubishi? Yeah, I'm REALLY paying for that trend.

The same thing is going to happen in the auto industry. In 30 years, people will reminisce about how cars used to be designed and made here.

We'll adjust. New industries will take the place of the automakers.

(Message edited by Fury13 on April 26, 2007)
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 554
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ha! the Fusion, is way to low to the ground for where I live. We had to go through some snow drifts that were up to the bumper of our F-150....I dont think that little thing would make it up here.....the more I think about it, the more I think I should keep my Explorer.you guys have brought up some intresting points for me to think about

Does the Fusion even have 4-wheel drive?
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 800
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Cause the Kia place will pay off our loan



Misscleo, just to reiterate Abracadabra's point above, that loan payoff you mention does not really benefit you in any way. It is not uncommon for people to be mislead by "we'll pay off your current loan" advertising and conclude that such a feature is just like a rebate or a discount. It is not. Your existing loan balance will simply be added to your new loan. Effectively you will be paying more interest because you have extended the term of your existing loan. It's even worse if your new loan is at a higher interest rate. These kind of deals are usually laden with unnecessary fees as well. Be very careful.
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Higgs1634
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Username: Higgs1634

Post Number: 66
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swingline, you're right sometimes they just roll the payments in. As I noted on a similar thread not too long ago, a friend of mine recently got into a new VW. VW at the time made an extra pool of cash available to its dealers for "conquest" sales specifically targeted toward domestics. Meaning they would put in extra incentive money for people who were coming over to VW from a Big 2.5 to pay off lease or loans. No shadyness...no rolling payments. Misscleo should watch out for the fake payoffs, but those conquest incentives are out there and that might be what she's talking about.
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Wash_man
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Username: Wash_man

Post Number: 419
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Jeep Patriot. Cool lookin little truck, great price. 4 cyl. Get it with a manual and it gets 30mpg on the highway."

This is far from a truck. The Patriot, Compass, and Dodge Caliber are all built in the same plant on the same platform. They're essentially the same vehicles with different sheet metal. The Jeeps have a 4x4 version, not sure if the Caliber does.

BTW As someone mentioned, the new Jeep Liberty will launch soon. I've had the pleasure of seeing many of them through my job. I love this vehicle and hope to purchase one within a year. I currently have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee. I compared specs on both vehicles and they are very comparable in dimensions, HP, fuel economy, etc. I think it is going to sell well. Mechanically, it is identical to the Nitro, sharing the assembly line and many components. The MSRP should be about the same as I paid 8 years ago!!
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hear what many of you are saying and you’re correct…

What I see are foreign automobile makers building these plants in rural areas, at least in Indiana.

The Toyota plant located in Greensburg, IN. is basically an agriculture area, and jobs are few and far between in farming areas.

The entire county is an agriculture area, not just the town.

Chances of getting a job that pays $14.00 an hour, granted with limited benefits, are slim and none, and slim just left town, they have a captive audience.

Honda is spending $550 million on an assembly plant for the Civic sedan.

It’s a foregone conclusion that no company has ever invested a half-billion-dollar factory in Decatur County, not to mention the 2,000 plus jobs that go along with it.

This plant is an economic boom for Greensburg as well as Indiana.

I do think that many posters are correct, and to become competitive in this market, Americans will be sacrificing the most, as they have fought and won the most.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare what an American worker makes as opposed to what Mexicans or Asians laborers make in their countries.

It’s a tuff business, and undoubtedly the American worker, as others have mentioned gets the short end of the deal.
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Wash_man
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Username: Wash_man

Post Number: 420
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the Ford website:

Fusion's V6-powered model with class-exclusive* All-Wheel Drive (AWD) improves traction on any surface where wheel slip can occur. It constantly monitors driver and vehicle input and distributes engine torque to where it's needed most. So if the front wheels are experiencing poor low-speed traction, AWD will automatically transfer most of the torque to the rear wheels.

*Class is mid-size sedan, excluding Mazda6.
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Awfavre
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Username: Awfavre

Post Number: 113
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miss_cleo, my aunt & uncle have lived up your way for decades in the Honor area out in the sticks by open fields with lots of snow drifts. My aunt has always driven a Pontiac Grand Am, Ford Tempo, or Eagle Talon. She never once has had a problem getting stuck or with the low clearance of those vehicles. Of course, she didn’t camp or do off-road stuff with them, either. She did, however, have to report to work virtually every day at an insanely early hour—before the roads were properly plowed. Yet, I don’t recall her ever being late due to driving conditions on the roads. My uncle drove the smaller version of a Ford truck (a Ranger?) for years & had no problems.

They only recently purchased a used Ford Explorer for hauling a snowmobile trailer to their cabin by Wolf Lake (Baldwin area) for snowmobiling. Otherwise, they still drive the Grand Am in both locales year-round with no problems.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 76
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: ""Chances of getting a job that pays $14.00 an hour, granted with limited benefits, are slim and none, and slim just left town, they have a captive audience.

Honda is spending $550 million on an assembly plant for the Civic sedan.""

Yeah, and soon as the UAW is gone, they'll start dropping the wage more in line with the area they do business in. These companies are here to reap the dollar, transfer it back to their headquartered country. They will offer nothing return.

Quote: ""I don’t think it’s fair to compare what an American worker makes as opposed to what Mexicans or Asians laborers make in their countries.""

Whats not fair about it? I think it should be posted at every cash register in every retailer and on every sales floor. Do the creeps that out-source our manufacturing over to third world countries discuss wages with prospective American companies prior to a move? They don't have any trouble mentioning it. They even laugh about it.

Chinese retailers have no trouble soliciting American businesses with prices that are ridiculously low, all the while knowing damn well they are undercutting another American manufacturer. And putting the major hurt on the economy in general. They have no problem with mentioning anything and neither should we.

I've been contacted by Chinese sales people on three different occasions in the last 4 months by email. Even my little business.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1580
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...the new Jeep Liberty will launch soon... I love this vehicle and hope to purchase one within a year. I currently have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee. I compared specs on both vehicles and they are very comparable in dimensions, HP, fuel economy, etc. I think it is going to sell well."

I had an '01 Cherokee and it never got better than 16 mpg. That's piss-poor, in my opinion.

If that's what the new Liberty will get, I don't think it will sell well at all.
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Alan55
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Username: Alan55

Post Number: 77
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cleo, consider an all-wheel-drive Pontiac Vibe.

Mileage in the high '20s, lots of interior load space, and made at the Toyota NUMMI plant in Calif.
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Whithorn11446
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Username: Whithorn11446

Post Number: 62
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"We'll adjust. New industries will take the place of the automakers"

Please tell me how so considering it's not only manufacturing jobs leaving this country. Many high-tech jobs that were believed exclusive to the United States are sent to India and China on a regular basis. Our educational system has a serious crisis with teaching math and science. The darling kiddies are learning to surf the Internet, but other skills such as writing coherent sentences and reading comprehension continue to deteriorate. Why would a company want to locate in the United States when they have a reasonably educated workforce in China and/or India available willing to work for 1/10 the wages of an American? The U.S. population continues to grow but are the number of jobs going to keep pace? What's going to happen when the fast food employees are replaced by self-service machines? Meijer does not have U-Scans at the check outs out of the generosity of their hearts to make life easier for customers.

"I prefer to see it as a brave new world... a little harder, a little meaner."

I don't think Brave New World is the kind of society to which we ought to aspire. The U.S. is a reactive country and people do not notice problems until its too late. If you think this adjustment is a good thing, you are obviously entitled to your opinion. The UAW crossed the line with the 1970 GM contract, but eliminating certain sectors of the economy should become the remedy? That is real helpful to children that were not even born when the Big 3 and UAW were making these decisions. I agree that corrections need to take place, but some degree of opportunity needs to remain. This is not just about the auto industry, it's a fundamental question about what kind of standard of living we want here. Do you really think Toyota will stay here if the Big 2.5 is gone and their plants become obsolete? The U.S. has taken on many fights before whether they were wars or unpopular causes and "globalization" needs to become another one of those fights. The attitude of sit there and acceptance is not what made the U.S. a superpower.

At some point the madness needs to stop if we have any hope of preserving a reasonable economy for a country this size. I prefer to support the Big 2.5 by purchasing vehicles manufactured in the U.S. or Canada. That means final assembly, engine and transmission assembly as well as the highest possible U.S./Canadian parts content. I also will pay the extra money for other products as well to help the U.S. economy whether its jeans, other durable goods such as washer and dryers, plumbing supplies, etc. manufactured by U.S. based companies in this country. Granted the choices are far more limited compared to 30 years ago.

In reality the fight against the racket known as "globalization" needed to have started in the 1960's and 1970's when Japanese electronics and steel were flooding the market. However, too many people thought less expensive or cheap was just a good thing. This probably should have been one of Walter Reuther's causes. Something needs to change and purchasing decisions are where it begins. Everyone has the right to purchase whatever they choose, but ask yourself what kind of an economy do you want the United States to have? Diversification should not mean elimination.
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Lmr
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Username: Lmr

Post Number: 14
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We've got a 2002 Saturn SL1 with an automatic transmission and we've gotten as high as 44 mpg with it, when driving all highway miles on I-90. We've even gotten about 40 mpg with it driving over the mountains in Wyoming. 110,000 miles on it and runs great.
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 9369
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love how some folks on here actually think that buying a car with a "big 3" nameplate is supporting the folks who work for the "big 3".

Take a look at where some of these "big 3" cars are made. Better yet, take a look at where many of the components are made. Some of these vehicles have 90% of their parts manufactured overseas.

Take DC for example. Guess what they are doing in China? They are going to build the minivan in China to be sold in China. Where does that leave the folks here who build them?

We are going to get fucked whether we like it or not. The days for these types of jobs are ending quickly.
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Motor
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Username: Motor

Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fury13: Please find a comparable sized 01 foreign suv that had a noticeable MPG benefit compared to your Jeep. If you buy a suv, don't you kind of expect to get piss poor gas mileage?

(Message edited by MoToR on April 26, 2007)

(Message edited by MoToR on April 26, 2007)
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 555
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a Jeep Liberty owner, I can say those MPG figures are total BS! :-) I always buy American, although some say Jeep isn't "American" anymore, it is still built in Toledo with 80% US content.

I have been screwed over on several cars by both GM and on my Jeep though, for expensive repairs that were not my fault. Chrysler and GM failed to stand behind their vehicles even though they were well aware of their own defects. The dealers treated me pretty crummy too.

Meanwhile the UAW folks keep voting for Libs that are destroying the state, makes me wonder sometimes why I don't buy a Honda. I will always buy American though...

(Message edited by perfectgentleman on April 26, 2007)
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Ccbatson
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Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 342
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2000 dollar premium for a hybrid at start up, battery replacement in 2 years (not covered by warranty) at 2000, not to mention the environmental liability for all of those toxic metals and chemicals in the batteries.

8 MPG improved (generously estimated), 800 gallons a year for 10K miles driven. At 3.50 a gallon, that makes, POTENTIALLY 2800 dollars saved per year. In a 2 year cycle you would be up about 1600 hundred dollars. Not to bad.

Other considerations are; horrible performance (bone up on your scooter/skateboard skills in order to merge with traffic), unknown longevity maintenance and durability for the electric motors in this application over time, uncertain impact of extreme weather (hot/cold) on performance, limited choices for style (but getting modestly better).

As stated above, US automakers are getting into the hybrid arena and are competitive (particularly for utility vehicles). Also, other non hybrid options exist (diesel, smaller and lighter vehicles) with their pros and cons.

Overall, you need to make an educated decision in order to avail yourself of the best product for your hard earned money....American vehicles will come in higher on the list than you think. If you truly want to buy american as you say, there is no good reason not to.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1270
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I walked in the lobby of the Ren Cen and looked at all the new GM models. Have they learned nothing? Saturn had some cool cars, but they still had several big tacky boxes. People don't want that crap. They seem to think if we build it, they will buy. No, the market knows what it wants and its not a giant SUV anymore.

The cars their making are answer's to questions that nobody's been asking.
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Ccbatson
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Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 344
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Consider these for a moment; Corvette, Cadillac CTS/STS/SRX, GMC Acadia, Equinox, the new Saturn sedan, Buick Luscerne, upcoming Camaro, the Sierra pickups, and the Cobalt. Most are at least competitive in their respective markets.

Yes, they still have some dogs, but who doesn't? Frankly, to my taste, most, to all of the japanese products are bland and unexciting without character.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 560
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milwaukee-

It is a little extreme to say that "people don't want that crap." The Big 3 has sold millions of SUV's, it has been a huge source of revenue for them and is one of the only things that has been keeping them afloat. When they have gone head-to-head with Japan on compact cars they have lost.

If people didn't want "that crap" then why is Toyota offering vehicles in that segment? It would be accurate to say that YOU don't want it I guess.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1387
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Man, this thread has turned into a car suggestion thread into something completely different.

Miss Cleo-
Not sure your needs, and I realize the Jeep Patriot and Compass are not "trucks", but if what you need is to get out of snow drifts and through some dirt roads, a 4x4 version should be fine. http://www.jeep.com/en/patriot /index.html

I would recommend you stay away from things such as the Liberty and Nitro. Their real world mileage is not very impressive (maybe 17mpg). I can't imagine that you'd save more than a couple mpg, if any, over an Explorer. Certainly not enough worth to upgrade.

And yes, the Ford Fusion is available with All Wheel Drive. Very nice cars actually. Very highly rated and top marks for quality and reliability from both JD Power and Consumer Reports. I believe they named the Fusion the top new car pick for 2007 (best newly released model) and noted that its reliability numbers were excellent.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/ca rs/fusion/index.asp

I really think that Patriot would be right up your alley. If you can deal with the somewhat lower to the ground stance of the Fusion, it too might be a good choice.

Good luck!
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 283
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I tried, I really did. We have always had a Ford Or a GM car/truck. My grandfather and dad worked at GM, my MIL at Fords. But this is the end. Gas is 2.95 up here, The Traverse City paper is saying gas will be 4.00 by summer.
I am going to trade in my Explorer for something, anything that is 4-wheel drive and gets better gas mileage. You can bet it wont be a Ford or a GM, probably a Kia or a Honda.....sorry guys, as a life long, GM and Ford driver,I hang my head in shame, but, I have to jump ship.



I tried, I really did. People in my family always went to Traverse City for vacations. But this is the end. Hotel rooms are more than $100 a night and the Detroit papers say that they will be more expensive this summer. I am going to trade my vacations in Traverse City for vacations anywhere, anywhere that doesn't have piss cold lake water and only four months of warm weather a year. You can bet it won't be Northern Michigan, probably the French Riviera or Mexico.... sorry guys, as a life long Traverse City vacationer, I hang my head in shame, but I have to jump ship.

(Message edited by Huggybear on April 27, 2007)
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 713
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really hope you referring to Traverse City being on Lake Superior was undetectable sarcasm. If not, may i suggest taking a 5th grade Michigan geography lesson again!
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 555
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whats that all about? I live in Charlevoix, why you dissin on TC? and you dont even know what lake its on! priceless!
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Huggybear
Member
Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 284
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I fixed the undetected sarcasm.

Cleo, if you think that is attacking Traverse City, I think you totally missed the point. I don't vacation in TC and never have - and I did get As in Michigan geography - the point is to show you what this reasoning (speculation, and inaccurate facts) looks like when it's applied to another subject. The original post is an expression of consumer preferences.

And I am not picking only on Cleo. She gets troll points for picking a fight (really, what you drive is your business - address this to Ford or GM). But everyone else gets points for bizarre, illogical, and violent reactions to this. Takes two hundred to tango.

(Message edited by Huggybear on April 27, 2007)
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 556
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA, sure, what ever you say.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11532
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fury13,

Seriously man, how is it you can bitch and whine about gas mileage when you owned a fuckin' SUV? Did you expect it to knock down 30+ mpg on average when you bought it? Seriously, you went from a vehicle in which you obviously had ZERO use for, to a little econo box of a car. What was your reasoning for buying the SUV in the first place? You obviously weren't concerned about gas mileage at the time. So please, stop comparing your American made auto to your new foreign jobber, it's apples to oranges friend.

As for Miss Cleo, somebody already did the comparisons of foreign and domestic SUV's above in terms of gas mileage. It always baffles me when SUV drivers complain about either gas prices or mileage. No shit Sherlock, you bought a heavy, inefficient vehicle in which you didn't need.
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 162
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ford Hybrid
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Miss_cleo
Member
Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 557
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you bought a heavy, inefficient vehicle in which you didn't need.

How can you possibly know what I need to drive? huh? huh?

If you could only see where I live, 2 miles in the woods, on a dirt road, off of a dirt road..I have to drive 5 miles just to get to some pavement...95% of my driving is on hilly, dirt roads with gullys on either side..I live here year 'round, I got stuck 3 times this past winter WITH my 4-wheel drive explorer. Dont ever pressume to tell me what I dont need to drive. Sheesh!
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 714
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You got stuck THREE?!? times up there in idyllic Charlevoix? OMG, i thought everything was peachy and perfect up there compared to this unfathomable cesspool known as metro Detroit! What other sorts of issues have you had to deal with? I suggest purchasing a 6 wheel drive Hummer with 48 inch ground clearance via a jacked up body/suspension. it will rape those snow drifts.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 561
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

um, yeah. we get a lot more snow than you pussys in the south. WTF is the point of all these posts?

Did I ever say I was upset about getting stuck, no. I am trying to get it through you thick-skulled people that I need 4-wheel drive up here, I dont live in Fudgie/Flatland like most of you. Its a part of life up here. Some of you are morons, really.

Thanks to those who offer real
advice and options, the rest of you, well, I think you know what you can do
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 715
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

when i visit my dad who lives north of you, can i call you a pussy? Meh, on second thought, i don't need your permission. Mr. Cleo, you are a pussy. Detroit ate your ass up and spit it out.

(Message edited by mind field on April 27, 2007)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11534
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If you could only see where I live, 2 miles in the woods, on a dirt road, off of a dirt road..I have to drive 5 miles just to get to some pavement...95% of my driving is on hilly, dirt roads with gullys on either side..I live here year 'round, I got stuck 3 times this past winter WITH my 4-wheel drive explorer.



Boo fuckin' whoo. I grew up in the country as well, there were times when it would be a day or two before our roads got plowed in the winters. We had just as many dirt roads as we did paved around us. I drove a V8 powered rear wheel drive car growing up and not ONCE did I get stuck. Damn near any front wheel drive car will go as good as your 4x4, and even most rear wheel drive cars these days as well. People are so brain washed into thinking they need 4x4 these days it's hilarious.

Ok, lets say for a second that you DO actually need 4x4. As has been mentioned, the American SUV's beat most any of the foreign competitors in terms of mpg. Then all of sudden, mpg isn't the issue for you, cost of the vehicle is. Yet cost wasn't exactly the issue when you bought your big ass SUV last time around was it?

SUV drivers simply kill me. They buy the heaviest most inefficient vehicles on the road, then yell bloody murder when gas prices go up. Buy what you want, it's a free country, but don't come bitching to us when the facts don't back up your claims.
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Crew
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Username: Crew

Post Number: 1234
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you guys should date. SS & Ms Cleo would make such a cute couple.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11536
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, I don't date SUV drivers. :-)
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I don't understand why this is such a polarizing argument. Nor why people need to be such assholes about someone asking advice on a fairly complicated buying decision.

Also, any muscle car fan that rags on SUVs as the heaviest most inefficient vehicle must be an asshat.

As far as the "buy american" crowd, the Fusion you guys keep pushing, a very nice car, is built in Mexico. You guys all need to be salesmen for your brands, not assholes. We shouldn't be buying it so you can feed your family, we should be buying it because of how great it is. It's your job to make it happen.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 498
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Also, any muscle car fan that rags on SUVs as the heaviest most inefficient vehicle must be an asshat.



ROTFLMFAO! Read his blog to get further confirmation on the degree of "asshatness" said poster possesses, especially the "Swallow your pride" entry of Monday, April 16, 2007.

Hahahahahaha.

(Message edited by quozl on April 27, 2007)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11538
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Also, any muscle car fan that rags on SUVs as the heaviest most inefficient vehicle must be an asshat.



Muscle car fans don't use their inefficient muscle cars as daily drivers these days. In addition, my muscle cars weigh in about 700 lbs LESS than a new SUV. In fact, most every muscle car from back in the day is lighter than most any SUV, even the full frame monsters.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You just proved sport's point. I don't get it? My squire weighs in at 4975.

Lincoln Navigator Curbweights:

Curb Weight (2WD) 5,760 lb
Curb Weight (4WD) 5,994 lb

Oink oink!!
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 70
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Curb Weight (4WD) 5,994 lb"

Damn, that's 3 tons.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 500
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw that Cambrian, not done intentionally. Misread post...need...more...java.
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People buy/build/dream of muscle cars for selfish reasons. Just about anybody that has one does so for one of 2 reasons, sport or prestige.

People buy SUVs for hundreds of reasons. Some people do buy them for prestige, and fewer for sport. The majority buy them to comfortably fit their family. SUVs are also usually safer in collisions and provide a better view of upcoming traffic. Having four wheel drive in a winter state is a huge plus as well.

The reason you, SS, are an asshat is because you are bashing people for purchasing the most efficient vehicle for THEM, while supporting everything you see as negative in a SUV with your car.

I am no SUV lover, I went with a Michigan built import station wagon to cart around my family and our things. If I lived where Miss_cleo did, however, the benefit of having a 4x4 would likely sway me.
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Rrl
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Username: Rrl

Post Number: 790
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No sympathy for you, Miss Cleo.

You made the choice to move to the great white north, an area where now you're BOUND to your automobile since the nearest Supermarket/Drugstore/DQ is likely miles & miles away via country roads. Not to mention petrol is generally more expensive up north.

If you don't want to spend so much for gas, move to a location where an automobile is not an absolute necessity, or buy a motorcycle. You can't have your cake (acres of land and no neighbors surrounding you) and eat it too (pay pennies weekly for gas). No matter whose vehicle you choose, you will get hit in the wallet regardless. It's the style of life you've chosen.
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Detourdetroit
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Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 294
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$5 per gallon. bring it!!!
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rrl, you are on to something. Instead of paying so much for gas, Miss_cleo should move back and use the wonderful, safe, and clean public transit system that Detroit offers. Or, pay more in insurance on her Exploder than gasoline costs her a year.

If you live in Detroit, you are BOUND to your automobile since the nearest Supermarket/Drugstore/DQ is likely miles & miles away via city roads.
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Rrl
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Username: Rrl

Post Number: 793
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not even close to stating that Ab. For many months Cleo raves on this board about how great it is that she has nothing but deer, foxes and raccoons for neighbors, etc. I wish her the best if that's what she wants, frankly it sounds great, but there is a price to pay for that type of seclusion.

Never did I infer she should return to DET, however she could, if she would choose, move to TOWN, where you don't have to burn a gallon of gas to get to the supermarket.

My only commentary was that her life-choices are costing her money, not her selection of vehicle.

And, by the way, it's not good etiquette for a newbie to use that tone on this board, so please sit down and observe, and only speak when spoken to.
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Ptpelee
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Username: Ptpelee

Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Mother just bought a Ford Edge AWD crossover. I drove it up to Manistee over Easter. In the snow it was the most "sure footed" car I have ever driven. AND the quality and features rival the Acura TL I own. If Ford can make cars like this I believe thier future is secure. By the way it also got 21 MPG on a new engine!
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My apologies for not knowing all of her posts, but the attacking of Miss_cleo seems unwarranted in my eyes. I do agree with your observation, but I don't see how that helps her in this situation.

And, by the way, I haven't seen a lot of etiquette in any form around here lately. But I will attempt to contribute where I can, spoken to or not.
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Alan55
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Username: Alan55

Post Number: 81
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People certainly can buy whatever vehicle they want. Once Toyota, Honda, Kia et al have completed their take over, however, you won't be seeing headlines such as this:

"GM Donates $2M for Restorations to Yankee Air Museum"

This donation was spurred by (local resident) GM Vice-Chairman Bob Lutz, who is an aviator and a former Marine pilot. I can't imagine that same headline with the word "GM" replaced with "Toyota".

(If you don't care for the Yankee Air Museum, then substitute "Detroit Institute of Arts", Detroit Winterfest, or any other of the dozens of other local charities that GM supports.)
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Ltdave
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Username: Ltdave

Post Number: 48
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What exactly is your loyalty to the imports? This phenomena has always amazed me. The imports, through clever marketing, along with other cultural forces, have brain washed the population into thinking that Foreign cars are superior to American cars…and if you don’t buy Foreign you are not smart… You strangely loyal people act like the imports care about you as well as gives 2 shits about America...

and lets see, i bought Whirlpool (Benton Harbor, MI) appliances for my new house, i buy Dell computers because they are still assembled in Texas, i owned only RCA televisions because they were the last American TV manf. now i buy Magnavox (Dutch/Danish). i sit in a La Z Boy recliner (Monroe, MI), i wear Carhartt jeans (Irvine, KY), i shop at Wal-mart, occaisionally, you can still find items emblazoned with Proudly Made in the USA, and i own Craftsman hand tools, although Snap-On, Husky, Kobalt and Stanley are still mostly all made in the US...

i will walk before i put my money into the hands of a dealer selling foreign cars...

david
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 83
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltdave, I couldn't have said it better.

I won't allow any contractors in my home to repair, install, tear out, remodel, paint, put a roof on, wash windows, etc., if they are not driving American trucks or autos. I don't hesitate to ask them what they drive before they come out either.
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Steamaker
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Username: Steamaker

Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MissCleo, Buy whatever you want. That is what makes this a great country, your option to choose. I own a Ford King Ranch and an Explorer. Some of my relatives own Hondas and Toyotas. Theirs are older yet have more features. Ford, GM, and Crysler need to do their homework and find out why people are going foreign and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!
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Ccbatson
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Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 355
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Blind loyalty is bad for the automakers as, absent competition, there is no incentive to improve the product (example...the 70s). My philosophy is look at the field of products that suit your desires and the prices. If there are equivalent products made by US companies, then that is what I will get. If there is not a competitive product, then I will buy the foreign version. The dynamic being that we vote with our dollars and if the US automakers are paying attention (which they must do to compete) then my purchase of a competitors' product will eventually elevate the US automakers product line to appeal to the consumer (myself as an example). It so happens that better than 90 percent of the automobiles I have purchased have been from US automakers.
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_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1804
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I won't allow any contractors in my home to repair, install, tear out, remodel, paint, put a roof on, wash windows, etc., if they are not driving American trucks or autos. I don't hesitate to ask them what they drive before they come out either.



But do you ask if they skilled union tradesmen and prepared to pay their wages. Do you also do any home repairs or upgrades yourself while taking work away work from those union brothers.
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltdave and Buyamerican,
GREAT POSTS!

The facts are, American cars are just as good on fuel as the japanese ones are. The quality is probably better than on japanese and American cars dont look as sissy.

do whatever ya want, I will never give up on Detroit (or the Lions for that matter)lol :-)
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Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 432
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well SS, maybe you would have a job if SUV sales hadn't tanked with the Big 3

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