Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Top 20 Casino Markets... Previous Next
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1016
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw this on another forum...

I was surprised to see Detroit so high on the list, given how new our casinos are and the fact that they're still "temporary"...

Any chance Detroit will move to the #4 spot after gaming space and hotel capacity are expanded?

http://www.americangaming.org/ Industry/factsheets/statistics _detail.cfv?id=4
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Motorcitydave
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Username: Motorcitydave

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder what the REAL Vegas number is if that is just the 'strip'.
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Border5150
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Username: Border5150

Post Number: 180
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You could start by combining the totals for the strip and the downtown. Of course, there's no way that takes into account all the machines in airports, gas stations, etc. We may never know...
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2732
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit is really high up for having only three casinos, casinos which are still growing and, with the new hotels, will increase revenues enough to challenge Atlantic City.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 572
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit can only be competitive with those higher on the list if we are able to attract money from outside the SE Michigan area.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitstar,

I think that will happen once the finished Casino/Hotel/Resorts open up in the next few years.
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Japes
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Username: Japes

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They need to allow sports gambling, the city and state would generate more money tax revenue, the casino would post better profits and you would appeal to more out of state gamblers as well as a different class of gambler.

Though following the existing rules you couldn't bet on the Tigers or Wings at Motor City.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 819
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the survey include Casino Windsor revenues? I would assume it does not, but CW is still a significant part of Detroit's casino market. With CW included, Detroit may already be number 4.
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To anybody that has been to Vegas or AC, the reason they are so profitable here is simple : Michigan state law, no free alcohol. Liquor sales are HUGE.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1368
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Motorcitydave said: "I wonder what the REAL Vegas number is if that is just the 'strip'."

Dave, just add in number 9 and number 16 to get the overall Las Vegas numbers. Downtown Las Vegas includes Binion's Horseshoe, the Golden Nugget, and others on the Fremont Street Experience. The "Boulder Strip" used to mean a string of casinos along Boulder Highway, but now includes all the non-strip/downtown casinos. They're known as "locals joints", although some are just as elegant as on the strip. Green Valley Ranch is an example.

The totals are even higher, as these figures do not include local bars with bartop video poker machines, or the supermarkets, all of which have little slot areas (usually 15 slots).

Heck, you can even play video poker at a car wash while waiting for your car.

Ever wonder why Nevada has no state income tax? :-)
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Pythonmaster
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Username: Pythonmaster

Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitstar is right on; the take from our Casinos is out of the pockets of our citizens. Without the conventions and supporting hotel rooms I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 115
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Python Master,

You say you don't see things changing anytime soon, but what about the 1200 hotel rooms attached to the casinos that will be open in the next 18 months or so?
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Tigers2005
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Username: Tigers2005

Post Number: 127
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that the location of the casinos is still prohibitive to attracting many people from out of state (other than Toledo). If the three casinos were close enough together that you could easily walk between them, there would be more of a tourist draw. Other than Greektown, the current (permanent) locations are mainly accessible by car. The location of MGM will be greatly helped by the improvements in the B-C Capitol Park area. Motor City is somewhat on an island and doesn't have much chance of getting pedestrian traffic in the area any time soon. It was poor planning.

There is a tour of the new MotorCity Hotel and Casino expansion today that I will be attending. I can't wait to see how it is coming along.

Is there currently any bus service running a loop between the three casinos? If there isn't, then there should be. Even if it were privately funded by the casinos, it would be well worth it. I think all 3 would benefit from it.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1022
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tigers:

MGM is within a few blocks of the Times Square people mover stop, though it's not as close as would be desireable...also, it's not exactly a pleasant walk between to two points...hopefully that will change in the next 5 years...

I like the idea about an exclusive casino-themed shuttle service...I would even take it a step further and include other points of interest in the entertainment district in the loop

(Message edited by thejesus on April 26, 2007)
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Tigers2005
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Username: Tigers2005

Post Number: 129
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would want the loop to be completed as quickly as possible, to make casino-hopping more convenient. From one the casinos, you can walk almost anywhere else in the CBD within a few minutes.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 820
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A casino circulator would be a good idea. That being said, it would call into question (again) the usefulness of the DPM....
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Tigers2005
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Username: Tigers2005

Post Number: 130
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DPM has its usefulness, but not for going between casinos. Its a couple of blocks from the new MGM, but a long way from MotorCity.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 424
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Connecticut has casinos?!?
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Cgunn
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Username: Cgunn

Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In 2005 we were number 4, and number 3 in regards to 'walkable' casino destinations.

To have only three casinos we are up there. Number 2 (Chicagoland) is reporting revenue from two states (IN/IL), and number 3 is reporting for the entire state of Connecticut.

I'm sure if they reported us a Detroit-Windor we would be number 3.
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Cgunn
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Username: Cgunn

Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Connecticut has one of the largest casinos in the U.S. w/ over 300k sq ft of gaming space. I forgot the name but it was one of the casinos on the tv series high stakes poker tournament.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2407
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Foxwoods--they get folks from Boston, New York, and everywhere in between, including the Rhodey $.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 289
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Connecticut actually has two casinos, Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods. Both are located about 1 1/2 to 2 hours from Boston, and slightly further from New York.

Foxwoods is a huge casino, with three hotels. I've been there once but was not incredibly impressed (overall quality of surroundings maybe about at a mid-grade Las Vegas casino level). Foxwoods has a huge poker room, and hosts at least one WPT stop per year.

I've never been to Mohegan Sun, but my sense is that casino is also pretty huge. Mohegan Sun isn't popular among poker players, because it has no poker room.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2020
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would the casinos even want a casino circulator? I know things like that exist in Vegas but it's usually among casinos with the same owner, isn't it?

The new Motorcity Casino looks like it would do very well at attracting folks from outside Michigan. Seeing an image of a structure as dramatic as that should automatically raise the question "Where is that?" in the viewer's mind.

(Message edited by Jimaz on April 26, 2007)
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2408
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The new Motorcity Casino looks like it would do very well at attracting folks from outside Michigan. Seeing an image of a structure as dramatic as that should automatically raise the question "Where is that?" in the viewer's mind.



And then they immediately book a hotel room and board the next flight to Detroit, where they gladly spend all of their disposable income. All because of a photo.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4197
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that they should use the old Trolleys (they were gonna be sold, but Peter Stroh put up a huge stink, so they're still here), and lay Trolley tracks from MotorCity down Grand River passed MGM, and then continue down Grand River thru downtown and over into Greektown.

That would be a novel way to connect the 3 casinos.

Anyone who thinks that our casino revenue is only local is ignorant of the facts. Just look at the dozens and dozens of buses from Ohio, Indiana, and other parts of Michigan that are parked in front of each casino every day for day trippers.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 369
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

instead of adding busses or trollys... , what about simply adding a corktown DPM stop... say, by eph mcnallys... or the baile cork... would help those businesses + serve as a connection for motorcity, as well as a "casino monorail"

Greektown Station
Times Square Station
Corktown Station

and... different thread, but if you're going to bring back the trollys and already have track in the dequinder cut... why can't they run down there NOW...???
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Cgunn
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Username: Cgunn

Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both the Connecticut casinos are Native American casinos. I wonder what what the gaming revenue is for Michigan. (Does the state collect that data?)
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4199
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andylinn... if you put the trolleys in the Dequindre Cut, they in essence will go the same as they did on Washington Blvd.... they went from "nowhere to nowhere".

Besides why hide them in that trench? They should be visible as an attraction. They won't be down there.

And um... the guage of the trolleys does not match the guage of the railroad bed there now.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 373
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a man can dream, no?
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2022
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Casino revenue from MGCB
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3829
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

UpinOttawa makes a good point. It is weird that they take in a wide range to create "Chicagoland" but don't add in Windsor whose casino is less than a mile from Greektown's. Typical overlooking of Detroit's international metropolitan status.

I would like to see the profitability rankings. I have heard Detroit is no. 1 there. Can anyone confirm?

If one just looks at revenue, then GM and Ford are doing great.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2570
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, the survey was for US based cities. Last time I checked Windsor wasn't in the US.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4202
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL Andylinn... yes you are correct! My dream has always been that they used the trolleys to go from one end of Rivertown over to the other end (for the future bar hoppers).
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 432
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the city/state should think about allowing more casinos to come in? How could it hurt? We already have three. It would provide more jobs, more revitalization of vacant land, more hotel rooms and more money for the city and not to mention more competition is always good because it forces the current players to be more creative and have better facilities.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 375
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

oh no, gistok! the dequinder cut runs from eastern market down to the warehouse district, not along the path of the river...
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4204
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I knew that... my choice has been Rivertown, not the Dequindre Cut. The Dequindre Cut has little in between Eastern Market and the riverfront, except for Lafayette Park... not much entertainment there.
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Wash_man
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Username: Wash_man

Post Number: 418
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think any of the three casino would eagerly participate in a "casino Hopping" plan. They want you to come to their casino and STAY there.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 821
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The survey is for US cities/regions. It only takes into consideration US data.

The Metro Detroit casino market (not limiting revenue to just US revenue) would be approx. $1.7 billion annually, if CW's $400 million USD are included. That would put the region in a virtual tie for 4th place.

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