Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 New Hockey Arena? Why? Previous Next
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 252
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Every thread seems like someone brings up "a new hockey arena behind the Fox"!! Why are you guys so stoked on getting a new hockey arena? I know the Joe is not the greatest, mostly because of the stairs but heck FIX IT! Why could you not put an entrance where people walk in at street level then take escalators up into the arena? I really dont see why you guys want to destroy Joe Louis arena so badly. There are so many things that could be done in the city without putting MILLIONS into a new arena. Sorry guys, I just dont get it. Fill me in please!
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2569
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joe louis arena sucks. It is one of the worst arenas in the league. For Ilitch, It's not about the stairs, it's about the lack of luxury boxes and the current boxes distance from the ice. Very hard to sell luxury boxes when they are the worst seats in the house.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. The renovation of the Joe to get it up to the standard necessary would cost almost as much as a brand new stadium would.

2. The timetable to do this would not fit. The length of time needed to do such an improvement to the Joe would probably make the Joe unusable for an entire season of hockey. Where would the Wings play? Yost is too small and out of the way and Ilitch's relationship with Davidson negates the Palace.

3. In its current location, the Joe does NOTHING for the city beyond what happens inside the arena. People get off the expressway right into the cobo parking garage, the go into the Joe and they leave. Incorporating a new hockey arena into an existing neighborhood that isn't isolated will provide "trickle down" business in the immediate area surrounding the arena. This means more money is spent downtown and the arena is an economic generator. With an arena behind the Fox, it will mean that that area is a year round sports/entertainment destination for the entire region. With guaranteed year-round business in that area, watch for the number of bars and restaurants in Foxtown to surge.

4. Moving from JLA will provide the space needed for any potential expansion to Cobo Hall. Thus preserving the auto show and potentially luring new convention business.

5. It eliminates that ugly sea of parking and provides additional energy to an increasingly vibrant area of downtown.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4198
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1) it was put in a spot where there is absolute ZERO spin off activity (no restaurants, bars or even hotels are even remotely within close walking distance).

2) the city needs to expand Cobo, and JLA is in the way.

3) Mike Ilitch will likely build it with mainly his own money (since neither the city nor state can afford to build it). So those millions you are talking about are HIS millions.

4) with that corregated metal exterior, JLA is ugly as shit.

5) the stairs are the least of the reasons we don't like it. It is ugly on the inside.

6) the box level of JLA is the worst in the industry. Ilitch needs to increase his box revenue, and it ain't gonna happen at JLA.

7) as long as it is Detroit's only arena, MOST non-hockey events will continue to go to the superior Palace of Auburn Hills (bypassing Detroit altogether). I wouldn't be surprised if the nicer Palace gets at least 3 times the non sports business as does JLA.

Need any more reasons?
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 370
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

also... there is NOTHING served by having a hockey facility (of a major team no less) where it is currently situated...

-anyone hoping to enjoy detroit nightlife before or after the game needs to either drive around or take a shuttle service... let's get these hockey fans walking... and not make them have to plan/work to spend their money here... share with the other fox town joints... make the new "joe" really benefit downtown's nightlife...

-we need more space for cobo, why not expand into the joe? would THIS cost 1 billion dollars? i would hope not. reuse and not waste...

-ok... we have 2, not 1 but 2!!! giant SQUAT structures on our water front with NO windows? WHO THE HELL IS THE IDIOT that decided this? if made part of cobo, let's at least window it up, if not expand upward with freight elevators...
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 371
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

shit, we all said the same things within 3 minutes of each other... well... obviously, great minds think alike...
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Motorcitydave
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Username: Motorcitydave

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joe Louis is probably the best Arena in the league to watch a game (been to quite a few around the country), mainly BECAUSE of the fact there aren't any mid-level luxury boxes. That is why the Palace is such a horrible venue to watch a game (or a concert), you sit in the upper bowl and you feel like your miles away from the action.

I just hope (if they DO build a new arena) that they do it right, PLEASE, for the love of god, do not build an arena like the Palace or United Center in Chicago, it's a brutal place to watch a game!! Both of those were built some time ago, so hopefully they'll learn from those mistakes.

(Message edited by MotorCityDave on April 26, 2007)

(Message edited by MotorCityDave on April 26, 2007)
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 5063
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In this salary cap era of the NHL, it's not that Ilitch needs more money to keep the team afloat. He just wants MORE money- who can blame him? I think a new arena could serve multiple purposes where it gives Cobo expansion room, the area behind the Fox gets developed, and we can have another cool hip venue to attend downtown. In this day of a tightening entertainment dollar, they need to stay competitive as well. The spin-off businesses would hopefully benefit the area as well.

Let's get Detroit competitive with its convention business (a larger Cobo) and give the Wings a new arena to showcase its successful hoceky franchise.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 117
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Motorcitydave,

I'm not sure if the site behind the fox is big enough to build something the size of the Palace.
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Motorcitydave
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Username: Motorcitydave

Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Palace/Joe Louis... they have the same number of seats, and basically close to the same size (the Palace does have wider hallways).
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the overall footprint of the palace is larger.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2409
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I'm not sure if the site behind the fox is big enough to build something the size of the Palace.



How big is the site behind the Fox? You probably need less room than you think. Verizon Center seats about 18,200 for hockey, and takes up about two city blocks.

(Go to Google Maps and type in "601 F Street NW Washington, DC")
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 254
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Convert Tiger stadium into a hockey arena? Just a thought!
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Motorcitydave
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Username: Motorcitydave

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look into it, but I think you'll find it isn't by much... I just looked at it on Google Satellite map (I know not the most scientific study....lol), and it is basically about the same.

Bottom Line, a 20,000 seat arena (which the Palace and Joe both are) will definitely fit behind the Fox, and I think they could get away with only closing 2 blocks of Clifford, and a block and a half of Columbia.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 119
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exmotowner,

Bad idea. The scales are totally different. You are talking about an aged outdoor stadium in a deteriorated condition that is currently designed to hold 50,000 people for baseball and convert it to a 20-25,000 seat indoor hockey arena? You might as well bulldoze Tiger Stadium and build a new stadium from scratch.

This is all on top of the fact that putting in a big arena there would be contradictory to the residential growth that has been happening in Corktown. It would kill the incentive for all the parking lot owners to get off their butts and develop their property.

If you are going to build new on a new piece of property, behind the Fox is the smartest spot for it.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1025
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, there is absolutely no point whatsover in having a hockey arena along waterfront property....a baseball or open football stadium I can understand...but a hockey arena? wtf were they thinking?...waterfront developments need to have windows, whether they're office buildings or residential structures...
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 374
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thejesus, for the first time ever on this forum, i think we totally agree. amen, brother. (see my post about windows above)
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 790
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You apparently don't know/remember how JLA relates to the rest of downtown. Here's an aerial of JLA, what good is a street level entrance going do when the arena is cut off from downtown by the Lodge and Cobo?

http://maps.live.com/default.a spx?v=2&cp=42.325487~-83.05171 1&style=a&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir= 0&alt=-1000&scene=5649414&encT ype=1

So what is better a new area that is closer and walkable to downtown bars? Or keeping the old, isolated one?
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 2269
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why do people say JLA is not walkable?

I used to work in the Buhl and would walk through Cobo.

I used to go to Tom's before games and walk down Jefferson with a lot of other fans.

I'll go to the Town Pump and take the People Mover.

I have been to well over 100 wings games, and I have never once parked anywhere near the stadium.

Look at the number of people who are on the people mover before and after a game.

Look at all the bars/restaurants downtown before/after a game.

Between shuttles, PM, and feet, it is really simple to get there, and not sure how many more people would go out before/after if it was in Foxtown.

That said, I still am for a new arena, and would love to see it behind the Fox.

But not because JLA is not walkable.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4200
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are old archived threads on this forum absolutely littered with aerial cut/pastes of both JLA and the Palace shown pasted all over the west Foxtown area. There is plenty of room!
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 120
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DaBirch,

A building isn't walkable if the easiest access to it requires you walk through another building. Especially if most of that walk is through long, usually empty hallways with nothing to see or do. Big difference from walking down a street with bars, restaurants, shops, and other things going on.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2273
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hockey is prsctically a minor league draw_ where is the need for a new arena?
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 255
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey If Ilitch is gonna build it on his dime, go for it I guess. Maybe if it was put on the tiger stadium site, MCS would get some re-developement? I do hope if they demo the joe, they use their heads on the waterfront. (seems like from what I hear they finally got their heads out of their butts on that one too!) Thank god! LOl
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4201
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 3:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dabirch, I'm sure that most suburban fans don't have your savvy for circumnavigating Jefferson (do they go under Cobo, like the Lodge?). And as far as going thru Cobo, are there signs in the place that say "JLA this way".

As someone who knows the streets of downtown, I can only think of going thru Hart Plaza and along the Riverwalk/Atwater, or taking the People Mover to the JLA station, or getting off the Lodge at the JLA parking structure.

Any other route causes confusion for those who don't frequent JLA that often (myself included).

And all of those weird space tubes (look like they were made for Gerbils... they seem to go in every which way...

For people working downtown, it may be easy... but for those not familiar with the nuances of the riverfront layout, it can be a headache.
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Motorcitydave
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Username: Motorcitydave

Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover, Hockey is a pretty big draw (just as big or bigger than Basketball), I'd say 20,000 people plus, on about 50 or more nights a year is a pretty substantial #... Joe Louis and the RedWings bring more people than the Lions and Ford Field bring downtown in a year.

... also, as soon as a new arena is built downtown, you know that most, to all, of the concerts at the Palace are going to be moving downtown also.

(Message edited by MotorCityDave on April 26, 2007)
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4205
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover, when up until last year the Red Wings usually had larger attendances per game than the Tigers... one can hardly call that minor league.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 121
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

City Lover,

I can think of two minor league baseball parks and one minor league hockey arena within a 3 hour drive of Detroit that are 13 years old or less. 5/3 Park (home of the Whitecaps) in Grand Rapids opened in 1994, Van Andel Arena (home of the Griffins and also in Grand Rapids) opened in 1996, and 5/3 Field (home of the Mud Hens) opened in Toledo in 2003.

So my question is, what would NHL hockey being "minor league" have to do with whether or not the Wings need a new home?
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Kenp
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Username: Kenp

Post Number: 463
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover, please explain what you mean by minor league draw. Compared to the Pistons the Red Wings ticket prices are more expensive and the draw is the same. 20,000 is a big draw.
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Bpjeff
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Username: Bpjeff

Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wings avg. 20,066 x 41 games
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/ attendance?year=2007
Pistons avg. 22,076 x 41 games
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/ attendance
Tigers avg. 32,362 (2007) 81 games/season
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/ attendance
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 254
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote:

"Also, there is absolutely no point whatsover in having a hockey arena along waterfront property...."

Excellent point. Some of the great MLB stadiums (e.g. Pittsburgh, S.F., etc.) have really nice views of water. S.F. is especially neat seeing homers land in the water.

The only view of water in a hockey arena is that frozen stuff that the players skate on...
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2410
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The only view of water in a hockey arena is that frozen stuff that the players skate on...



...and the beer for which they charge $7.
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Citylover
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Post Number: 2275
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 5:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kemp, no tv. revenue no prime time t.v. contract not drawing fans in most markets
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Bpjeff
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Post Number: 67
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those 20,066 at the Joe are not watching TV! What does that have to do with the need for a new arena?
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Leland_palmer
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Username: Leland_palmer

Post Number: 303
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 5:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What does a national tv audience have to do with bringing local people into the city and patronizing local businesses? 20,000 people are 20,000 people. Regardless of TV ratings, the volume of people downtown on game night is the same.
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Citylover
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Post Number: 2276
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 6:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It has to do with revenue.How do you all think the nfl and nba and mlb do as well as they do? It is from t.v. revenue.

I am not making a judgment on the game.But when the sport has no tv contract is losing fan support in most other markets and lost a year just two years ago I think a fair question is where is the need/ justification for a new arena? The nhl aint gonna survive on the red wings and a few other teams doing ok.

Unfortunately the radio station wtka here in aa just fired dave shand,He is a former um nhl player also an atty and he has spoken of these things. In terms of tv where the real money is the nhl is not in great shape.
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Andylinn
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Post Number: 377
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 6:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

citylover - i think that's a moot point. hockey is was and will be a VERY popular sport in Detroit whether the wings do well or not... (check out ticket sales figures for the wings in the 1980s when they weren't any better than the lions.. (or worse)

the NHL will always be around... i don't see it going anywhere... it may shrink, but it will remain. detroit itself doesn't benefit from tv hockey broadcasts... so why are poor ratings or lack of broadcasts a big deal? really... how does this hurt DETROIT? and why doesn't it justify getting a bigger arena if we're talking about the benefit of additional fans tromping around woodward...
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 153
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i don't really agree with saving JLA

but...

lets see something at the Fox
Tigers Game
Hockey Game

Parking Nightmare??


is there enough parking
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1812
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cl, your question was regarding whether we needed a new arena. That relates to how many people are in the seats, not how many watch it on tv. That's why everyone including myself thinks there is a need for a new arena.
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1813
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

French777... you can never have enough surface parking lots...
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Ray1936
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Post Number: 1371
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, then, which of the two was/is better: Olympia or The Joe????
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Llyn
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Post Number: 1815
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh no...
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1032
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 8:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so who are the hockey buffs around here who can give some examples of the newest, state of the art arenas out there so we can get an idea of what to expect from a Joe Louis replacement?
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 943
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bell Centre




HP Pavilion (just too small for here)




Probably two of the best arenas around (Bell for capacity and the Shark tank for intimacy).
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Scs100
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Post Number: 944
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Shark tank only holds around 16,000 people from what I remember, so that is why it would be too small.
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Scs100
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Post Number: 945
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And finally, probably the best looking arena (in my opinion), the American Airlines Arena in Dallas.



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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 1221
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a question for those pushing a new stadium.

In a City that is broke, and has a declining economic base, does it make sense to invest so much (assuming that some public funds will be used) into something like an arena when the City and the region for that matter have much more pressing needs?

I'd rather see them fix the garbage problem that started a few years ago then have a new stadium. Call me old fashioned, but I'm sick of rats running around the alleys behind the neighborhood stores.
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Scs100
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Post Number: 946
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you assuming that the city was going to pay for part of the arena? I thought that Illitch was paying for this one. Maybe I'm confused.
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1035
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I definitely like AA Center the best out of those three... Bell Center isn't bad either...
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Scs100
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Post Number: 947
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I only put up the Shark Tank because I remember someone saying the seats where like Olympia's, right over the action. I do agree, AA Center is the best out of those three.
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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 1223
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has Illitch publicly said that he is building a new arena? Rich people like Mike did not get rich by not putting the screws to folks to get what they want. He could not afterall pay for the cost of tearing down the Madison Lennox and turning it into a parking lot without a handout. Why would something like a giant building be any different?
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Jerome81
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Post Number: 1388
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't believe any city funds would go towards a new arena.

I have been to the Shark Tank about a half dozen times, usually when the Wings are in town. It is a wee-bit small (16,000 is about right), but it is stacked floor to ceiling, very upright, and it gets LOUD in there. I actually really really like going to games there. I have been to the United Center. That place absolutely blows for hockey. The seats sweep way out as they go up (probably to fit more seats) but you feel like you're a mile from the ice. I've sat in the last row up top at the HP Pavilion, and never felt I had bad seats. Even that last seat feels plenty close for the price ($18).

If they can duplicate the views, noise, and intimacy of HP pavilion but somehow find a way to do it for about 19-20,000 fans, this new stadium could be even better for the Joe. The Joe is not the best, but ask a lot of guys around the league and they'll tell you the Joe gets very loud. It is also decently intimate as well.

I would be very happy with HP Pavilion + 4000 more seats.

I do have faith Illich will get this right. 30 years in the Joe and 20+ years of ownership and I'm sure they know what makes a good hockey arena.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 4211
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 3:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerome81, I tend to agree with you on Mike paying for it himself. What with Marion raking in the cash on the casino, and with the great attendance levels for both Baseball and Hockey, plus the pizza business, I tend to think they're doing rather well.

I (like many others) do tend to get annoyed when the Ilitch's "play the system" to get a few handouts of chump change here or there for the demo of the Madison-Lenox and the Vermont Hotel. But in general, what they get for those is peanuts, compared to what they've spent or are spending in Detroit.

I can see Ilitch paying for the Arena himself, but the city kicking in on road improvements, sidewalks, lighting and infrastructure.

I can also see Ilitch asking for a property tax break, since he'll be owning it.

And I can see JLA being pounded to rubble for the Cobo expansion (eventually).

As much we like to bitch about the Ilitch's (and often for good reasons), Detroit wouldn't be the same without them.

I like the Freep's editorial comments about them... "flawed brilliance". :-)
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Bpjeff
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Post Number: 68
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 4:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

scs,

Those are great choices! If they can build it in Dallas, we can build it in Hockeytown. What happened to the Wings last night?
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 158
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 6:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

his lease is up in '09

so he would make a decision before then
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2277
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070427/COL 22/704270424
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Kenp
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Username: Kenp

Post Number: 464
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 8:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with the Red WIngs selling seats is the price. My seats for last nights game cost me almost $200 a seat. After the last few years of high priced seats, spoiled fans and quick playoff exits, people are re thinking there choice to go to the games. Also the Tiger success last year has people jumping on that bandwagon.
This new stadium will have a lot of other events that right now are going to the Palace. A new stadium will be good for the city for a lot of other reasons besides hockey.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1038
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"This new stadium will have a lot of other events that right now are going to the Palace. A new stadium will be good for the city for a lot of other reasons besides hockey."

true dat
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"his lease is up in '09

so he would make a decision before then"

mmm, not quite... if he wants a new arena built in time for when his lease expires, he'll need to make a decision this year...my hunch is that's it's already been made, and that we're just waiting for the season to come to an end to get an announcement...

(Message edited by thejesus on April 27, 2007)
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Vas
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Username: Vas

Post Number: 705
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep Joe Louis as the name at least! No 'Comerica' mishaps!
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 125
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about calling it the Olympia?
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Rjlj
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Post Number: 320
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joe Louis is what it is. A new Arena will have a new name.
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Mdoyle
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think its been said before but Ill reiterate. The fact that ticket sales are slumping int he playoffs is the reason that a new hockey arena will most definitely be announced. If ticket sales continued and the house remained packed then there would be no need to change anything. A new arena will attract tons of people who want to experience the latest and greatest. But as I said before, I will miss the mens room troughs. haha, classy!
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Fredgarvin
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Post Number: 42
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not so fast Mdoyle. Living in Indianapolis, I've witnessed the same scenario. The Colts are building a new stadium, even though they've been selling out the RCA Dome for years. However, the city realizes they need to expand their convention center, and the Dome is in the way of them being able to do that. Indy has lost many conventions and their corresponding revenue because the center is not large enough, and they've gone elsewhere. I can tell you from personal experience that Indy greatly benefits from "walkaround" revenue from game patrons going to local eateries, bars, and other sites in the downtown area. This happens every time the Pacers, Colts, Indians (AAA baseball), and other events happen. There's a lot of "walkaround" revenue generated as well from conventioneers. All these facilities are located in a central downtown area, highly accessible, with a large police presence, 24 hours a day. Additionally, a major downtown shopping mall is located here that has been built using old existing department stores and office buildings now interconnected. If you ever get a chance to come here, you'd be impressed.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mdoyle:

It's not that simple...the city of Detroit owns JLA, which Ilitch has a lease on through 2009...but the city is not interested in renewing the lease...rather, they want to knock it down to expand Cobo, which is critical to continue attracting conventions and retaining the Auto Show...

so there's more going on here than just ticket sales...even if they we're packing the house, it not up to Ilitch to decided to remain there
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Warriorfan
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Post Number: 707
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Keep Joe Louis as the name at least! No 'Comerica' mishaps!



It should be called the "Steve Yzerman Arena." Hopefully Illitch would realize the long-term value among the fans of honoring a Red Wing instead of selling the naming rights to some company for a few million dollars in the short term. I don't want to watch the Wings play at the GoDaddy.com Arena.
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Mallory
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And just as soon as they open the doors to the new facility and close the doors to the Joe, people will be on this forum saying that they miss the Joe. I still miss Olympia, and it took me a while to get over it, so I agree, spend the money on something else and leave the Wings at the Joe.
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Rjlj
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Post Number: 321
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Illitch is paying to build the arena or paying for most of it, you can bet money on it that the naming rights will be sold to help subsidize the cost of building the Arena.
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Buzzman0077
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The real reason they are holding off making any announcements is probably to keep the prices down on the few lots behind foxtown that are not owned by Ilitch that will have to be procured before they can start construction. The moment he officially announces that he's building a new stadium the land owners will charge him through the roof for those crappy parcels.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 569
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with the criticisms of the Joe, it would have been nice if all of these issues were considered BEFORE it was constructed.
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1041
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just found an old, but good article that discussed a new hockey arena and how giddy Ilitch is will all the activity around the Foxtown area afte the Tiger's 2006 season...

http://www.redorbit.com/news/t echnology/674684/detroit_free_ press_tom_walsh_column_ilitch_ our_town_is/index.html?source= r_technology
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1042
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city might not be paying for the arena, but as another poster pointed out, they've likely committed to other things if Ilitch pays for the arena, such as fixing up the street scape and granting that $100k to knock down the Vermont Hotel...
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Rjlj
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Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 322
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which land parcels behind the Fox does he not own or have control over at this time?
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4214
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mallory, you don't hear too many people missing Ford Auditorium (although I wouldn't mind it being reused). So I don't think many tears will be shed for JLA.

And Rjlj, you are correct. The naming rights will be sold. But there's not too many local corporations that aren't in financial trouble left in metro Detroit.

Hmmm... we know it won't be named "Quicken" or "Rock", and it sure ain't gonna be called "Compuware". DTE is taken, AT&T is taken and Chrysler sounds too much like the arena in Ann Arbor. That sorta leaves GM, Cadillac, Buick, Chevrolet, Dodge, Penske, Masco or CMS Energy.
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Buzzman0077
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't really know for sure but I was talking with someone I can trust and they said that there was one or two parcels that were refusing to sell behind the fox because of speculators.
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1043
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

man hearing that kind of thing just makes me want to reach back an smack all those clueless f*cks who voted for prop 4...
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Gistok
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Post Number: 4215
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Thejesus....

That's why I think Mike will pick 2 or 3 parcels to choose from. Either east of Cass (the emptiest and prefered site among many forumers), west of Cass (the triangle of land along Grand River) or north of the Fisher (former Motown area).

And he can play hardball too... "either sell me your property or I'll envelop it with parking structures all around it." Of course he would never actually say those words... but the holdouts would get the message...

Nothing like a nice large parking structure to keep your property isolated from other developments.

Remember he played hardball with the Women's Exchange (although most forumers didn't care for that one). If it weren't for Chris Chelios, that property would still sit there empty, due to no nearby parking.

(Message edited by Gistok on April 27, 2007)
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Rjlj
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Post Number: 323
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chelios Chilli has a TON of nearby parking, but why get into the conversation again.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 4217
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rjlj, remember how China Club wanted to develop the Women's Exchange, but couldn't get committed parking. Nearby parking is not the same thing as "committed parking", which is what Chelios got from Mike Ilitch.
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Paulmcall
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Post Number: 94
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Makes a lot of sense to build a new arena because ticket sales are down!!
Maybe they're down because of the pricing!
I doubt folks are gonna come out to a new arena if the prices remain sky high.
The city should not be involved in financing any new arena. It has enough debt already.
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 101
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You could be assured that ticket sales would go up if a new arena was built. Isn't that part of the reason why Comerica Park was built?
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2279
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's bullshit.Did any of you bother to read the column I linked?

Why would ticket sales increase if a new arena were built? And why would shows currently at the Palace not be at the Palace anymore? The Palace will fight for the shows as they like the money too and if people are not paying the ridiculous prices now they won't for very long at a new place either.

I personally don't care.It would be great to see a retro style ala Conseco downtown. It could have ground floor to the street retail.I am sure it would be very attractive. But with the condition of the game and the league I question the neccesity. Some of you seem to think Detroit and the red wings live in a vacuum.They don't. The wings are affected by the state of things_ or didn't you read the column?
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Hans57
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Post Number: 102
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you saying that the Tigers' attendance didn't increase after Comerica Park opened? Aside from the last season at Tiger Stadium, every season at Comerica Park has averaged more than the last 6 seasons at Tiger Stadium.
Keep in mind the Tigers tied for the worst record ever in 2003.
http://www.baseball-almanac.co m/teams/detatte.shtml

(Message edited by hans57 on April 27, 2007)

(Message edited by hans57 on April 27, 2007)
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Schulzte1
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Username: Schulzte1

Post Number: 85
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 10:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no question that the ex-officio national hockey arena is the Xcel Energy Center in downtown St. Paul, Minnesota. Stupid name, but the best hockey building in the United States. It has 18,500 seats, and they sellout out every Minnesota Wild game and when the Golden Gophers hockey team plays there, they sell out too. Detroit may be hockeytown, but I'm afraid that is changing to Minneapolis and St. Paul. Detroit needs an arena that rivals St. Paul's. There is plenty of room behind the Fox theatre to build an arena. I don't mind the Joe as a building, but its an isolated fortress that has virtually zero foot access to the rest of downtown. Renovating the arena can't change that. And the city of Detroit won't be building a new Red Wings arena, it will be the Red Wings ownership + some naming rights footing the bill. Getting dollars out of the city is like getting water out of a rock at this point. The Palace was completely privately funded, by the way.

Of course, some of you have seen my plan for a new Olympia Stadium in Detroit, but for those who haven't, its at www.newolympia.blogspot.com. I've gotten many compliments about the plan, and I think it would be great for downtown, the Red Wings, and the NHL.
Minnesota High School Hockey Tourney in St. Paul

Minnesota High School Hockey Tournament in St. Paul
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 953
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supposedly the best atmosphere in the league.





I still like AA arena more (for exterior view).
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Schulzte1
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Username: Schulzte1

Post Number: 86
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree the the arena in Dallas looks great from the outside, but it is so tall inside. It has three levels of suites and that pushes the balcony into the stratosphere, unlike the Joe. Exterior looks are great, but for sports stadiums, its what's inside that counts.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 955
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be nice if the interior of Xcel could be combined with AA Arena. Just need some more seats.
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Warrenite84
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Post Number: 85
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no problem with a new Joe Louis Arena. I do have a big problem with closing off Clifford and further erasing more of Mayor Woodward's spoke layout for Detroit.

I would support an arena that runs along Clifford above I-75, with a Park Ave. pedestrian bridge and retail along Woodward. This would tie in Foxtown, Park Ave. Bars, Woodward, and Cass Park Area for further development.

Would that be an acceptable alternative?
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Thejesus
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

walking across a freeway via a pedestrian bridge is not a sufficient alternative to the arena actually being in foxtown...

and on a scale that balances the interests of building a new arena in Foxtown vs. preserving the "spoke" layout of downtown, your spoke layout argument barely registers...

(Message edited by thejesus on April 28, 2007)
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3rdworldcity
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus: Amen.
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Citylover
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Post Number: 2281
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love how you all ignore reality. As if the state of the league has no effect on the wings. As if everything is great and all the NHL playoff games are on major network t.v. and atendance is maximum_ even when I link an article from right here is Detroit wherein the writer relays with his own seeing eyes that attendance for a playoff game is down and rather dismal........even with ticket prices although still high down ten percent.

I do emphasize with you all though......as a former junkie I know the idea of denying reality and thinking somehow things will be the way I want them to.

In response to Hans57(good handle)_ did you go to many Tiger games prior to last year? It was not exactly a hot commodity.I recall it being very easy to find a parking place get a ticket and walk in.Not much action until the team got good.Frankly it reminded me of UM baskeball where in about twently minutes time one can be in a seat after leaving the house.

The crucial difference is this_ when the Tigers got to gettin good the crowds came; not so much for the Wings and the NHL.
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Schulzte1
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Post Number: 87
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anybody really believe that there aren't 20,066 fans who would love to see a Detroit Red Wings playoff game? Not me; not when every regular season game was sold out. Hockey fans are still there. NHL attendance overall is not down a bit. The economic factors are causing the empty seats. If I could get a ticket for a playoff game for $30, me and about 10 of my friends would be driving to ticketmaster to buy them this second. I just can't afford it, so I watch on TV. Are the FSN ratings down at all?
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1049
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 4:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so is it correct to say that the wings have 2 more season to play at JLA?

if the lease ends in 2009, then that would mean the 07-08 and 08-09 seasons would be played there, and then the new arena would have to be ready in fall od '09 for the 09-10 season?

if so, how long does it typically take to build a hockey arena?

I know we're all expecting an announcement this year, but how long could they possibly hold out in order to have the thing built and ready to be played in 27 months from now?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1040
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 4:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Ford Field and Tiger Stadium were both built within 6-8 months, So that should give a little of an hint Thejesus. Now the only issue that may come into play is the blueprint because (if I recall), there still isn't one in place.
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Citylover
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Post Number: 2282
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 4:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.thehoot.net/?module =displaystory&story_id=1764&ed ition_id=52&format=html


http://www.sportscolumn.com/st ory/2007/1/31/173351/288
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Schulzte1
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Post Number: 88
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, Ford Field and CoPa were not built in 6-8 months. A new sports stadium takes at least 2 years to build, usually 3 when sites have to be cleared and preped. The Red Wings won't play in a new arena until at least 2011. The city of Detroit won't kick the Wings out because the lease is up either. I'm sure an extension can be arranged
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 697
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Simple answer: Greed.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1050
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 7:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Well Ford Field and Tiger Stadium were both built within 6-8 months"

You're not even close with those numbers..
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Erikd
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Post Number: 852
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 4:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover,

Do you actually have a point to make, or are you just posting a bunch of negative bullshit and blather for shits and giggles?

You have pointed out that the NHL lockout and the current single-state recession in Michigan has resulted in a slight decline in Red Wings ticket sales, but I fail to see how these temporary situations invalidate the construction of a new hockey arena.

Sports stadia have a lifespan of 30-80 years; therefore, it is imperative that we make a decision based on a long-term outlook, instead of wasting a once-in-a-generation opportunity, just because we happen to be in a bad situation right now.

Having said all of that, I would love to your alternative to a new hockey arena in Detroit, since you are so opposed to it.

Even with the fallout from the lockout, and the Michigan recession, the Red Wings still sell enough tickets to justify the construction of a new arena.

The only thing we know for sure is that the Red Wings will not continue to play in that ratty ass JLA for much longer.

The Red Wings will either spend a ton of money to renovate the JLA, spend a ton of money to build a new arena in Detroit, or spend a ton of money to build a new arena somewhere else.
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Ladyinabag
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Username: Ladyinabag

Post Number: 244
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THESE ARE THEIR PRIORITIES!!!! PLEASE NOTE FOR THE NEXT TIME YOU VOTE!!!
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 260
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 8:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are some great posts within this thread especially some of the detailed, point-by-point posts at the top of the thread.

The one not frequently discussed is that JLA loses the non-Wings' stuff to the Palace as the latter is a much more desirable facility (excellent point made early on in this thread).

Those who are saying what difference does it make (JLA vs. "Foxtown" Arena - both downtown hockey arenas - so what's the difference? where the new activity?) are being too narrow in their focus.

It is about more then the Wings' home games.
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Scs100
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Post Number: 964
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 9:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you listen to the atmosphere while watching a game, you can tell which stadium is better. Calgary is always loud. Minnesota is always loud. Detroit is usually somewhat quiet (on TV). Edmonton is quiet. If they build a new arena, I hope to god that they make it so over a TV broadcast, you can hear what the atmosphere is like while sitting at home. It always seems quiet when I watch games on TV.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2283
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Erikd have you been reading anything I have written? I did not say I was against it_ I said I question the need_ someone has to or this thread would be one big ass boring love fest.

I linked a column where a Detroit writer tells us thousands of seats were empty in Detroit for a 2nd round playoff game_ and Detroit is a healthy market_ like all venues the announced attendance is based on sales and people are obvioulsy not going_ I linked another couple of things where some knowledgable fans gave a less than glowing report about the condition of the game_ I don't know enough about it to call myself an expert so I linked a few things.

Some question whether the NHL will survive. I think that might be extreme.But it does seem to me that a fair quation might be is a new arena justified in these difficult NHL times?
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Spiritofdetroit
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Post Number: 427
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 10:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover,
Are you nuts? Nearly every weekend last summer at Comerica was sold-out, and 2006 broke the CoPa attendance record. This year, prior to Opening Day the club had sold over 900,000 MORE tickets than the same time last year.

Game 2 of last season: 8,000 fans
Game 2 this season: 24,000

Don't come in here saying the Tiger;s are not in demand. You are ridiculous. For the record, the Wings sold out all 41 regular season home games this year.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 428
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 10:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, Citylover, regarding the NHL:

-Attendance is flat or slightly up league-wise compared to last year.
-League web use is up over 12%
-While not on national television this year, Versus picked up a very large portion of the games this year, and NBC national ratings are up compared to ABC's last year.

It wont be dead anytime soon.
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Ccbatson
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Post Number: 370
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 10:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm torn...Joe Louis is a throwback to the past and that is both a good and bad thing. Good in the character, history, and nostalgia. Bad in amenities, bragging rights, and access.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2284
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 12:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You should read my posts with more deliberation Spirit_ I am guilty of rushing thru posts as well....... so.........

I did not say I was against a new arena_ I questioned the need based on the "interesting" times the NHL is in.

I said some have (not me) questioned if the NHL will survive_ I said I thought that was extreme_ the point being that things are not fine and their are problems.

Regarding the Tigers I said prior to last year_ you just missed that maybe you were reading to fast.

But that in a way supports my point. The wings are in the second round and there were thousands of empty seats........
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 128
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 9:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover,

Think about this for a second. What was the scheduling like on Saturday. At the exact same time on Saturday,, you had a Red Wings game at the Joe, at Tigers game at Copa, and the NFL Draft and a Pistons game on TV.

Think about how the potential sports interested market in Detroit is divided up.

First, you have people who wanted to watch all of these events who stayed home and channel surfed in order to see it all.

Second, you had 40+ thousand at Comerica Park

Third, THEN you had people going to the Wings game. Keep in mind, that of all these options, the Wings were the most expensive one in town.
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Lvnthed
Member
Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 136
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 6:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bravo El_jimbo!!!!

I couldn't have said it better myself.

This thread boils down to being competitive...Period
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El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 130
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 8:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you give your product a competitive price, people will show up.

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