Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » Kmart Corp headquarters in Troy to be replace by shops and condo's. « Previous Next »
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Sg9018
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Username: Sg9018

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The former Kmart headquarters will be replace by
290,000 square feet of shops and restaurants

• 290,000 square feet of shops and restaurants.

•200,000 square feet of anchor tenants — including a health club, grocery, theaters and bookstore.

•About 50,000 square feet of office space.

•About 200 units of residences, with condos selling in the $300,000 to $400,000 range.

•Possibly a hotel with up to 250 rooms.

Eventually, the project might include up to 750 residences, including some senior housing, and 300,000 square feet of office space.
Here is some links for the information,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070430/BUS INESS06/70430030 Free Press
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20051222/B IZ/512220386/1001 Detroit News
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local /story.aspx?content_id=4fee29c 1-b65d-4d0d-99cd-fb2dc7f9b8f0
WXYZ 7
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 380
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was actually just about to post this myself. what do you think? i obviously think its positive for the city of troy, but damaging to the metro area as a region. am i wrong here? this is an attempt to further troy's claim as SE Michigan's "2nd/3rd/4th downtown," which is damaging to detroit, and therefore the metro area...

we're simply too spread out. it is damaging to everything.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard about this also last week. They claim it's to "compliment" the big shop queen and not "compete" with her. It's not a bad idea. At least they're doing something with that building. It sounds sort of like a Lifestyle center to me.

(Message edited by Urbanize on April 30, 2007)

(Message edited by Urbanize on April 30, 2007)
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 129
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andylinn,

I disagree. The fact of the matter is that there will NEVER be a mass exodus from the suburbs back into Detroit. What we must plan for in the future is to stop the suburbs from spreading and eventually filling in the entire region with more dense development. I believe this development is a small step towards that. It is far denser than your typical Troy development. I'm fine with that.
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Tielerh11
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Username: Tielerh11

Post Number: 62
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who is going to fill these shops? Troy already has SOOOOOOO much retail. Can anyone say Fountain Walk?
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 176
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Personally, I think it's a dumb idea. Why try to artificially introduce urbanism to a low-density corridor designed to be as suburban and auto-centric as possible? Why not start with an urban area and add to its fabric? It makes no sense to me. It's like trying to race-prep a Dodge Caravan.

That said, I think it's unlikely to hurt Detroit. How many people will cross-shop this project with an 80-, 90-, or 100-year-old loft conversion in downtown or midtown? Those looking for the lifestyle Detroit offers probably won't consider this project, and the people who buy into this development probably weren't looking at Detroit to begin with.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 311
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm with El_jimbo. Bearinabox, have you seen Troy's plans for redevelopment of the Big Beaver corridor? The City actually plans to try to remake it into a human-scale, urban-style space. I'll post a link if I can find it.

Detroit can thrive, and Troy can do these kinds of projects, and Dearborn can do well. What we can't have is more farmland plowed under while our population remains stagnant; this project is not one of those.

What we need is a reason for more people to move into the region and for our "leaders" to make plans to give them a reason to do so. More highways and more sprawl and more strip-malls isn't gonna get it done.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5444
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm really not so sure what to think on this one. What I do know is that this isn't the only type of center proposed in Oakland County, and I'm wondering how many of these can be supported? I mean, just up Woodward you have the Bloomfield Park (or whatever its called) trying to get off the ground, and you have every other suburb and their mamma wanting a life style center. It kind of makes you wonder how many of these will be cannibalized in the long run?
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 313
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, L, beats what we've been doing up 'til now...
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 382
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i simply believe no matter how hard these low density areas attempt to create an "urban environment" those looking for such will simply look to downtown detroit, midtown detroit, hamtramck, ann arbor, or even royal oak or ferndale... these areas have at least begun to develop.
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Why
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Username: Why

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 3:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's see.....you have jewelers that have been in the Detroit area for 80+ years closing shop because of the economy, you've got new and existing homes sitting on the market for 1+ years and STILL not selling (and, YES, this includes Oakland County too!), you've got job losses by the 1,000's, crime problems second to none in the nation........I certainly hope whatever condos they plan on building here are priced very cheap. I think government subsidized housing on that site would be the best plan.
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 191
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

man...they stole the ice rink idea too.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5852
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A new piece of Downtown Troy. Its would be bigger and better than Downtown Birmigham and 20 times more glamourous than Someset Collection
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8965
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the look of it and I agree with the sentiment above - It is a closer suburb and I would much prefer to see development in Troy and areas nearer to the city than on 38 Mile road.

At least we won't be eating costs for new infrastruture in a new community, creating a new community with a new school district, etc.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 72
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That location is Grade A Prime real estate.

I'll be interested in seeing who the new retail tenants will be.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 684
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, they needed to do something with that complex... I think a lot of Troy residents would have preferred they leveled it and turned it back into woodlands.

This sounds like another Fountain Walk. From what I recall seeing in the article this morning, it seemed like the developer was counting on a few hypotheticals (I don't recall, but I got the feeling that this is probably a developer who has a history in this region already with suburban developments). I get the impression that Troy is thrashing around for something to keep itself relevent (not to say that the city has become irrelevent but... it's obviously not the new center of s/e Michigan as it wanted everyone to believe 15 years ago).

I also don't see how this serves to curb sprawl. As said above, every other suburb in the region is trying to artificially create an urban atmosphere. If Troy wants to stay relevent then it should be the first one in line trying to link itself with a transit system to other points of interest in the region.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1061
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow...that looks pretty nice...

bad news I guess for those of you who want to see Troy eventually become a vacated ghetto (as if that would ever happen)...
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8969
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think that the Fountain Walk comaprison is acurrate since this will have mixed, residental, etc
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 685
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, re-read the article. It reminds me of Arlington, Va.

Only Troy doesn't have a Metro stop.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8970
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

wow...that looks pretty nice...

bad news I guess for those of you who want to see Troy eventually become a vacated ghetto (as if that would ever happen)...



I don't think many people want to see Troy as a vacated ghetto. I just want Troy as an entity to give up the arrogance and realize that they are an average suburb with an amazing mall.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1062
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if building office towers that get occupied, creating retail establishments that people want to shop at and creating an overall environment that people want to live in is arrogant, then I guess Troy is arrogant
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 686
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I just want Troy as an entity to give up the arrogance and realize that they are an average suburb with an amazing mall."

And in the grand scheme of things, they would thrive as just being a tony suburb. I don't see why they would even be interested in trying to recreate an "urban atmosphere" in that area. They will not reinvent the wheel.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1623
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a closer comparison than fountain walk might be just down coolidge at 15 mile with all those condos right next to the corprateland targetdepotjack shopping area
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8971
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

And in the grand scheme of things, they would thrive as just being a tony suburb. I don't see why they would even be interested in trying to recreate an "urban atmosphere" in that area. They will not reinvent the wheel.



Is it a matter of reinventing the wheel or realizing that people want the wheel and giving it to them. I like the direction they are taking with this project. It is what people want and it is redeveloping land in a developed community.

The more options availble in the core area (in my opinion east to the lake, south to the river and north to 16 mile) the better it is for our region as a whole. The question is whether or not the demand will be there given our horrible economy. If it is projected to be opening in 2010 I wonder if we will have recovered as a State or if real estate prices will still be on the decline.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 687
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Troy did nothing more than build Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills. It was logical for Somerset to go there because it's right there next to the affluent Bloomfields.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never seen the attraction of Troy. Easily the most boring architecture of any major suburb, with one or two exceptions. Great place to buy overpriced clothing no one will wear in a year. I say turn it all back into farmland and woods
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 688
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Is it a matter of reinventing the wheel or realizing that people want the wheel and giving it to them."

IMO, they are trying to reinvent the wheel. A couple months ago there was an article in the Detroit News where residents of Troy were expressing their disdain at the officials attempting to over-develop Troy. If you want an urban lifestyle then move to an urban area. If you want a big house with a big yard in a neighborhood of big elm trees and curving drives then move to Troy. Troy was not designed to be an urban center.
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1063
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can all bad mouth Troy if you wish...I know it makes you feel better...but the fact is they aren't forcing people to rent office space there or to shop there or to live there...they're simply providing an alternative and people are CHOOSING Troy over Detroit...so instead of trying to wish it away, you should all be asking yourselves WHY this is to see what can be done about it...
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8972
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thejesus - How high is that pedestal that you're on? Some of us lowly people can't hear you all the way down here.

It isn't a case of "all" badmouthing Troy is you are reading through this. What is funny is this thread appears to be avout 50/50 positive/negative but you have to take it upon yourself to preach to the few that have bad mouthed Troy.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2425
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Okay, re-read the article. It reminds me of Arlington, Va.

Only Troy doesn't have a Metro stop.



And Arlington doesn't have a six-lane divided highway going through its center.

To think this project is "urban" is absurd. Troy will never be urban until it can get its main roads into some kind of pedestrian scale. Otherwise, buildings on one side of the road will never relate to anything across the road--preventing the creation of an "outdoor room". The result is more of the same--drive-in, drive-out suburban "pod" development.

Two hundred thousand square feet of retail? That's a regional shopping center. Is anyone fooled that the people living in several hundred condos are going to be the majority of the customer base?

More faux-urbanism crap.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 71
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't metro Detroit over-retailed? I have never seen so many half-empty malls and retail strips as I see driving around today. In Oakland County, Summit Place Mall is dead, Northland is dying, Great Lakes Crossing better but hurting, downtown Birmingham has more vacancies than ever. Oakland Mall is ok, but not what it once was. Only Somerset and Twelve Oaks seem super-healthy. I have no idea how that new Rochester Hills lifestyle place is faring. Tel-Twelve (Southfield), Miracle Mile (Bloomfield/Pontiac), Orchard Mall (W. Bloomfield) and many others are dead and buried.

Even that fancy strip mall at Maple and Telegraph (Bloomfield Plaza or whatever) has vacancies. I don’t EVER recall multiple vacancies at that center. How much more retail do we need?

Big Beaver will NEVER be urban. It's massively wide and every single development is fronted by big surface lots. Putting one new development at the street will not "urbanize" the street. Do you really think Muffy from Bloomfield will hop the Smart bus to shop at Linens n Things and dine at Cheesecake Factory (or whatever crap they have planned for the mall)?

Put the retail and the condos in EXISTING urban centers and we will be on the path to a more sustainable Detroit. We need a regional authority with the power to block these developments and direct them to walkable, transit-friendly sites. It's a crime that this is proposed, while the Royal Oak-I696 site sits fallow. Same goes with vacant sites in Dearborn (both downtowns) and Grosse Pointe (Jacobsons) Heck, what about Campus Martius?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 689
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070426/BIZ/7 04260393

I don't think Troy's occupancy rates are exactly anything to write home about... of course the rate will be artificially boosted once K-Mart comes down.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 314
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You won't get transit-friendly places until you have real transit. If you don't build it, they will not come.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8973
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt that KMart is counted in those rates since it was not being shopped as available office space. I could be wrong.
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Supergay
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Username: Supergay

Post Number: 46
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This thread is hilarious. Work yourselves into a tizzy, girls!
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 801
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Big Beaver Road will never achieve an urban pedestrian scale in our lifetimes, or likely anyone elses. Regardless, this proposed development is a substantial improvement over the vast majority suburban developments in SE Michigan. Its combination of mixed use and density will promote less automobile dependence among its future residents and tenants. Its design suggests a considered attempt at placemaking ala Campus Martius or the riverfront. This is a good thing. It doesn't matter that Big Beaver and Coolidge Roads will never be transformed into Fifth Avenue and 57th Streets.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2427
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^I think it does matter. When the uses are completely out-of-balance, as in this proposed project, a substantial amount of traffic influx will be required to support it. Since it will be near impossible to get into the development from outside of it without a car, expect increased traffic congestion.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1064
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I doubt that KMart is counted in those rates since it was not being shopped as available office space. I could be wrong."

I think you're right...just as all the decaying buildings in Detroit aren't counted either...
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1065
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"What is funny is this thread appears to be avout 50/50 positive/negative but you have to take it upon yourself to preach to the few that have bad mouthed Troy."

yes, because those are the people I have a problem with...I have no issue with people applauding a new developments anywhere in Metro Detroit...
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1066
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Big Beaver Road will never achieve an urban pedestrian scale in our lifetimes"

I don't think that's necessarily what they're after, but you can call it whatever you want...the fact is, whatever it is, it's attracting businesses and residents, so they're doing something right
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Ndavies
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Metro Detroit is a zero growth to shrinking region. That means this malls occupancy will cannibalize other ongoing operations in the region. What currently in use development will this kill? Which malls will we see closing as this shiny new mall is occupied. My guess is the Oakland mall is in deep trouble.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1067
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"What currently in use development will this kill? Which malls will we see closing as this shiny new mall is occupied. My guess is the Oakland mall is in deep trouble."

Adam Smith would call that creative destruction...

in theory, the new and improved development will create more economic activity than the ones it killed...
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Ferntruth
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While I do not disagree with anything you posted Ndavies, I think Oakland Mall has been in deep trouble for quite some time now. Have you been there lately? It's looking a bit rundown and unkempt - reminded me of Universal Mall!
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Ndavies
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's true only in a growing economy. We are not in a growing economy. This is merely more infrastructure that we will pay for. We are at the beginning of a regional recession not the end. Development of this mall will die if the regional recession isn't reversed soon. A mall isn't going to cure our local economic issues. As people drain out of our region, more of our built infrastructure will need to be torn down.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8975
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"I doubt that KMart is counted in those rates since it was not being shopped as available office space. I could be wrong."

I think you're right...just as all the decaying buildings in Detroit aren't counted either...



So what is your point? And you wonder why I think that you are an asshole.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8976
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"Big Beaver Road will never achieve an urban pedestrian scale in our lifetimes"

I don't think that's necessarily what they're after, but you can call it whatever you want...the fact is, whatever it is, it's attracting businesses and residents, so they're doing something right



Based upon a proposal? Just like the last development proposed in that area that went nowhere. It is a proposal at this point, nothing more so it is not attracting residents and businesses. It may, but as it stands there is not a tenant signed on or a homeowners signed up.

Your glasses seem to tint a little rosy for some specific proposals.
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1068
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"So what is your point? And you wonder why I think that you are an asshole."

I really don't understand why you get so upset all the time...we're just having a conversation...

you were responding to lhearthed's post where she linked an article that listed the occupancy rates in the area, and she made a comment about how Troy's was "nothing to write home about"...then, you suggested that the Kmart building wasn't included in those numbers as a way to suggest that the occupancy rate in Troy is even lower than those numbers suggest...

My point in bringing up the decaying building in Detroit was to demonstrate that Detroit's occupancy rate is also MUCH lower than it's numbers suggest

whether you consider the rates good or bad, all things are relative, and Troy's occupancy rate is much better than Detroit's...the key to improving Detroit is to find out why this and what can be done to duplicate Troy's success...
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8980
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

then, you suggested that the Kmart building wasn't included in those numbers as a way to suggest that the occupancy rate in Troy is even lower than those numbers suggest...



That certainly was not my intent. I was pointing out that the city/developers have been planning this to be a site of another development for quite some time and the intent was never to re-lease it as office space. You read a little bit into my statement. My point was to show that the KMart site was not planned to be re-used and essentially taken on the rolls. If you want to infer an anti-suburb slant in every post of mine have at it. The funny thing is I have stated that the development was positive and you still determine that everything I post is anti-suburb.

And you completely miss the point. Whenever anyone criticizes any suburb you automatically go in to "Why Detroit sucks worse" mode. If you don't see it you aren't apying attention to your tone and your responses.

While Detroit's numbers would be worse if the vacant buildings were concerned I don't believe for a second that Troy's rates are only 22 or so percent. The area around Oakland Mall alone is lined with under populated or empty office buildings. Drive along Big Beaver east of Somerset and there aren't too many buildings that don't have a "For lease" sign in front.

If you need clarification you are welcome to ask but your agenda to infer something more nebulous in every statement is not necessary/.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 693
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"the key to improving Detroit is to find out why this and what can be done to duplicate Troy's success..."

Detroit cannot follow Troy's model...

Also, for clarification, I am a male.
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Iheartthed
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Post Number: 694
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Whenever anyone criticizes any suburb you automatically go in to "Why Detroit sucks worse" mode. If you don't see it you aren't apying attention to your tone and your responses. "

You hit the nail on the head with that one!
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1069
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Detroit cannot follow Troy's model..."

Not to the last detail, but it can to an extent...

"Also, for clarification, I am a male."

my bad...there's a female poster on another Detroit board w/ the same name...
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Jt1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now could Troy survive having deal with millions/billions in legacy obligations, dealing with a large homeless population, dealing with a large population of illiterate and unemployed people, a fleeing job and tax base, higher insurance rates, etc, etc.

It is easy to state that Troy or OC or Northville is doing great and say Detroit should follow. I wonder however if they could maintain their situation if they took on only a sliver of the regions problems compared to what Detroit is saddled with.

It is easy to point to them as successes when comparing them to Detroit because the situations are completely different and we live in a state that is comfortable sticking Detroit with many of the regions problems.

Yeah, Troy way to overcome.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"And you completely miss the point. Whenever anyone criticizes any suburb you automatically go in to "Why Detroit sucks worse" mode.""

Perhaps that's just what you hear whenever anyone responds to a post that criticizes a suburb...

I don't share the city v. the suburb mentality that you have...I'm happy to see development anywhere in the region...what I have a problem with is when people criticize positive economic development when it doesn't occur in their neighborhood and applaud when planned developments in the suburbs fail, such as the Monarch and Fountain Walk ...

(Message edited by thejesus on May 01, 2007)
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Jt1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I don't share the city v. the suburb mentality that you have



Nice assumption. Incorrect, but nice. As a matter of fact I will quote myself from two separate posts above:

quote:

I like the look of it and I agree with the sentiment above - It is a closer suburb and I would much prefer to see development in Troy and areas nearer to the city than on 38 Mile road.



quote:

I don't think that the Fountain Walk comaprison is acurrate since this will have mixed, residental, etc



quote:

Is it a matter of reinventing the wheel or realizing that people want the wheel and giving it to them. I like the direction they are taking with this project. It is what people want and it is redeveloping land in a developed community.



I can see how you take those comments as anti-suburb. I am for development in Metro Detroit as long as it is smart development which I think this is.

quote:

what I have a problem with is when people criticize positive economic development when it doesn't occur in their neighborhood and applaud when planned developments in the suburbs fail, such as the Monarch and Fountain Walk ...



There is a difference between development that is good for the region and any development.

Feel free to find the city vs. suburbs mentality in the quotes of my past posts. You act as though you are holier than thou in the city vs. subrurb debate but the second someone criticizes anything subrub on here you jump on your pedestal with your "Detroit only wishes it could be that good" mentality. I might not be the hugest fan of suburbs but there are more similirities between us than you see, just on opposite sides of the aisle.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

oh I see...your hate for suburbs is just limited to Livonia ...as soon as you cross Inkster, 8 Mile or Haggerty, all is well again... nice try JT... ; )
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Jt1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SO my posts containing my opinion that was positive towards this development don't count. Got it. Thanks for showing your rationale side.
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Urbanize
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't act like a baby over it. Mines didn't count either. Your posts won't always count. What you think is good may be well "not good" to your other fellow posters. I think you did have a nice, well thought out post though. JOIN THE CLUB!
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Dtwflyer
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My parents live less than a mile from the former K-Mart sight. Growing up, I've always known the K-Mart building being there, but I can remember when Big Beaver was a 2-lane road, when none of those office buildings directly to the west & behind K-Mart existed, when the site of Somerset North was a empty field, and the old south part of the mall was only one-story.

Needless to say the times of changed. Something needs to be done with that location, but it can't sustain itself as a large office complex as it is today. There is such a glut of office space in Troy, its not even funny. Most of those buildings surrounding K-Mart are half full. As is everything across the street there at Big Beaver & Coolidge. Many of those buildings between Stephenson Hwy & I-75 are vacant.

I think this plan is a little overzealous based on the current economy, just like the Monarch project. You're right I agree its going to canabalize other shopping areas nearby. Troy has a glut of half vacant strip malls too. It'll probably poach the complex down at 15 & Coolidge.

Troy loves it because its a short-term solution to get good PR and tax revenue. In the long-term, it will canabalize. No one thinks in the long-term in this region I swear. Plus, this is Troy, who can't even deal with a Hooters, let alone try to figure out what to do with this site.

Depending on when they start this project, it could be mighty empty for a while.
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Pinewood73
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There may be a little too much retail.

As far as the condos go, I think it could work.

Troy is in a central location, as long as their condos are not as expensive as Birmingham's (better downtown and location)
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Gistok
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree this could end up cannibalizing not only Maple/Coolidge shopping district, but maybe even downtown Birmingham.
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Patrick
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I might get laughed at here by some but I always thought the Kmart Headquarters was one of the more interesting structures in metro Detroit. It grew with me over time and seems to fit in with that intersection well. Did they design it to “age” like that in regards to the coloring of the metal?
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Gistok
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patrick, I agree with you 100%. It was a very interesting looking building that only built in the early 1970's. Future forumers may one day say... "what were they thinking when they razed one of metro Detroits best buildings from the 1970's"?
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Andylinn
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey, pardon my ignorence, but can someone post a picture of the former kmart world headquarters? a google image search didn't help. also, when did kmart move out of detroit? 1970s?
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Futurecity
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Post Number: 529
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully, future forumers will be able to recognize auto-centric, anti-pedestrian crap when they see pictures of it, and be able to say "good riddance".
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Wirt
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I too was influenced by that building. It has a monumental presence softened by the grove of trees.
I liked it for it's materials. I believe it was Glen-Gery brick on the cores and PPG glass - both were featured prominently in the magazine adds of the day and of course the Cor-Ten steel.
Ultimately, the planning and layout of the building has not lasted the test of time like it's materials and is next to impossible to convert into another use.
It was designed by Sig Blum of Smith Hinchman & Grylls.
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 2092
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From Google Earth:


Former KMart World Headquarters
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I believe it was Glen-Gery brick on the cores and PPG glass - both were featured prominently in the magazine adds of the day and of course the Cor-Ten steel.



What in particular did you like about the materials? These are all manufacturers, and your statement above is not unlike saying you like Corvettes because they're made by GM.
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Futurecity
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Post Number: 530
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the Google Earth post.

That shot is really screaming "I hate people".
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 2094
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're very much welcome.

Yeah, the parking lot is large but when you zoom in closer there seems to be many people-scaled courtyards in there.

I could be wrong. I've never seen it in person.
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Andylinn
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

as i've never seen the building itself, i cannot judge on that, but the location and planning of the facilities is awful... jesus, what were people thinking?
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Esp
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Username: Esp

Post Number: 58
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I worked there. People laughed at me when I said the building was architecturally significant, which I appreciated, but to work and move around in those modules was not fun.
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Peter
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Post Number: 65
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This will bring in retail from other strip malls and places and other strip malls will suffer as a result of this. Who will move into the new houses? People who sell there houses at 80% of their appraised value?
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6nois
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Post Number: 184
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The building was a case study for materials in my structures class, mostly due to the cor-ten steel which didn't need to be painted because it ages to a set level naturally. I have never been there but I heard the building was a nightmare for people with disabilities. As for this development sounds alright, the market probably isn't strong enough to support it. Same old story really.
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Esp
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Username: Esp

Post Number: 59
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And I forgot to add they spent millions on renovations before they shut the doors, and it will most likely be torn down ... go figure!

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