Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 New downtown sculpture proposed Previous Next
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Metaldoctor
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Username: Metaldoctor

Post Number: 104
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Rock, Paper, Scissors

THE ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS SCULPTURE OF DETROIT
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 911
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 5:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL LOL
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5449
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 5:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ha! Good one, Metal Doctor.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9057
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does that mean Victory is triumphed by Fascism which is then beaten by Strength?!

As long as ol' Joe's fist is on top...but that puts it out of reach of my running 'bump' prayer for the city's strength.
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Supergay
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Username: Supergay

Post Number: 48
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 2:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate everyone, but this was great!
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 367
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

White hands....How RACIST!
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3970
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I cant even lie but that was kinda silly tho...lol
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1628
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

that's good stuff there
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Crew
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Username: Crew

Post Number: 1243
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will a table top version be available for sale at Pure Detroit?
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Queensfinest
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Username: Queensfinest

Post Number: 94
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 1:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's really not that much more absurd than the Joe Louis fist that's there now.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3973
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 1:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And why is it absurd the way it is now exactly....?
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4362
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe we can slip a giant cigarette in the bottom hand with the two fingers spread? Now that would be sweet. Either that or make one with the middle finger.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 266
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 2:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"White hands....How RACIST!" hmmm Kinda how some of us "white folk" feel about the black fist. Works both ways!

Still better than the new "art" were getting here in Nashville for a tidy sum of $240,000 to a NEW YORK artist.....

http://artsnashville.org/pubar tprogram/opportunities/ebgw/gh ost_ballet_handout.pdf
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 446
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 2:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ eww.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 537
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Still better than the new "art" were getting here in Nashville for a tidy sum of $240,000 to a NEW YORK artist.....



That looks like one of the old roller coasters they tore down from AstroWorld. That is art?
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Valkyrias
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Username: Valkyrias

Post Number: 459
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Still better than the new "art" were getting here in Nashville for a tidy sum of $240,000 to a NEW YORK artist....."

are you sure those aren't the red pipes that used to be on washington blvd?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9037
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"White hands....How RACIST!" hmmm Kinda how some of us "white folk" feel about the black fist. Works both ways!



Actually I think it was mocking the people that think the fist is anti-white or racist. Do you really believe the fist of Joe Louis is pro-black, anti-white or any of that other non-sense?
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 267
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Do you really believe the fist of Joe Louis is pro-black, anti-white or any of that other non-sense?"

Yes. I do. I believe that it is ment to represent the black power symbol and is a definite message to the white people. That is MY OPINOIN. That is correctly how I feel. No other city greets its visitors with a clinched fist. Sends a BIG signal to a lot of people. Sorry about feeling this way, but why lie? Its how I feel. If we disagree Im sorry.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1475
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a fist, it's meant to represent Joe Louis' fist. He was a boxer, boxers use their fists.

Duh.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
"Do you really believe the fist of Joe Louis is pro-black, anti-white or any of that other non-sense?"

given the direction it faces, it is blatantly anti-Canadian
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9039
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree there is no need to lie or hide your opinion I just completely disagree with it.

Why does nobody assume any statues of white people to be racist or meant to mean 'blacks keep out'? Does anyone claim that the monuments of Mayor's Maybury or Hazen Pingree are racist?

Here is something to consider when you consider the fist to be racist:

quote:

History: This monument, commissioned in 1987 with a $350,000 grant from Sports Illustrated magazine, came as a gift to the city and a tribute to Detroit's great boxing hero, "The Brown Bomber", Joe Louis.



The city did not even commission it so that, in my opinion, puts a hole in the city meaning as a black power symbol. Do you think that SI had racist intentions?
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 320
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree! the fist should be "brown", because the black fist is offensive. 313
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 321
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree! the fist should be "brown", because the black fist is offensive. 313
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9040
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My final post so I don't clutter another thread:

Here is a picture of the artist with his wife (actress Angelica Huston)

http://imdb.com/gallery/granit z/4052/Events/4052/AnjelicaHu_ Caulf_7032373_400.jpg?path=pga llery&path_key=Huston,%20Anjel ica
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 538
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joe Lewis was a boxer, I would have thought the sculpture would have had a boxing glove on it.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5454
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jt1, just shows you the problem of the region. Just as many in the city want to believe everyone in the suburbs hates them, those that left want to believe that every monument, every event, everything post-riot was an attempt to 'scare' the rest of the white population out of Detroit. Both views are absurd, and I'm not surprised that it only took a little over 12 or so posts for someone to actually, and seriously (not as a joke) bring race into this. Just shows how f%cked the metro is.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 805
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 4:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^^

Exactly, it's not about the subject, but the politics of the region. That Coleman Young was mayor, people seem far to willing to believe a big, black fist couldn't symbolize anything other than black power or white weren't welcome in the city. To hear some people you'd think CAY sculpted it himself in the basement of the Manoogian.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9072
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 5:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had NO idea her beau was THE guy that designed this piece...they used to dine regularly at a high-end restaurant on Lankershim in North Hollywood when I lived there...and though I'd never bother them dining, I would have thanked them both for their fine work if I saw them at the door.


I take it as an honor to Joe Louis' strengths, especially that of his character.

When I jog, I will jaywalk to 'bump' it, while praying that we ALL can share his strength gift keeping this city breathing and growing.

All the racial opinions are truly Rorschach tests of your internal racism...let 'em fly so we know where you stand!


I'll be in the middle.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 268
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 8:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dont think Im against having a monument to Joe Louis. Im not! Put a glove on it! Im not a boxing fan but he was the best and deserves every accalade he gets. But guys, it does offend me. It just does. I really dont see it as a monument to joe louis. That bronze that used to be inside cobo and Joe Louis Arena are monuments. That fist just reiterates a very hard and cold symbol of Detroit. I know CAY didnt build it or pay for it, but I'd bet my ass he had to aprove it! Forgetting all the racial crap, is it a beautiful monument? Is that something you would put up in your home and be proud of? I wouldnt, but give me that bronze of Joe that I remember from inside and hell yes i would display that proudly! I just think its a bad symbol for a city that is trying to be more welcoming to all people. I didnt mean to cause a fuss but do you think Im the only one that feels that way? I don't. Sorry guys. :-(
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5457
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quite frankly, how you see it is irrelevant to the artists intent. It's not the statues' problem; it's your problem seeing what you want to see rather than seeing it for what it is. Don't apologize; just realize how irrational you are, and how incredibly ridiculous you sound. Don't blame the monument, recognize your mental illness, as there is no other way to explain such an incredible mental stubborness.

Seriously, put a glove on it? You have got to be kidding me.

(Message edited by lmichigan on May 03, 2007)
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2096
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's about the man, not his glove. The arm is horizontal, not vertical. A fist can be a good thing. We each have two.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 269
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 6:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL Yea LMichigan, Im mentally Ill thats it! and your right, Im probably the only one that feels that way. Cause your the only one that can have an opinion and because my opinion doesnt match yours, Im mentally ill. and yea I know its vertical. you can say what ever you guys want. It wont change my opinion. Why can you just not except the fact that it bothers a lot of people? Right or wrong, it does!
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5459
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 6:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The fact that you recognize it bothers you, but knowing full well who the statue is a monument to shows that this isn't the problem of the statue or artists, it's something that you have to work on; some demons you have to exorcize. If all you can see is a Black Power symbol, you have some things to work on, don't you think? I'm simply getting tired of people trying to racialize the monument, because they can't get over their own prejudices and bad feelings.

(Message edited by lmichigan on May 04, 2007)
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 270
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 8:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your right Lmichigan, Im a terrible terrible mentally ill person! I will go to the doctor right away and tell him your diagnosis! Thank you so much for making me see the errors of my ways! I should probably just rot in hell because Im such a bad person. Glad it dont offend you or there would be another riot in the D! Maybe I can get a priest here to perform the exorcism!
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9088
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 10:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why associate mental illness with being terrible?


Those are barely related and certainly NOT directly associative...except that terrible people can be classified as mentally ill. Mentally ill people are NOT terrible, indeed MOST are exactly the opposite!


I'm with Lmich on this one, "I'm simply getting tired of people trying to racialize the monument, because they can't get over their own prejudices and bad feelings."



I'm tired of people racializing (sectionalizing in any way) EVERYTHING, and letting their misunderstandings continue this fucked up divide in our world.


Anything that stands against unity among all people is an anathema to me.

That could be MY mental illness, though.
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 11:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What other city has a fist faced at Canada challenging them to come over? Detroit's so great.

As for the racism, Joe louis was a hero for white and black people in the 20's and 30's. Look on Wikipedia!
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3985
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 11:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMichigan you are talking about a man who thinks that every person in the COD with dark skin is out to target him because he got robbed a few times when he lived here, so now all black people are villains...

Why try to reason with a person who is so obviously biased and hates everything dark? He even admits to it:

He says this:

quote:

Yes. I do. I believe that it is ment to represent the black power symbol and is a definite message to the white people. That is MY OPINOIN. That is correctly how I feel. No other city greets its visitors with a clinched fist. Sends a BIG signal to a lot of people. Sorry about feeling this way, but why lie? Its how I feel. If we disagree Im sorry.



about the same time he says this:

quote:

Dont think Im against having a monument to Joe Louis. Im not! Put a glove on it! Im not a boxing fan but he was the best and deserves every accalade he gets.



Now my question is youj already know that it is a monument to Joe Louis, so why becuase it is a fist you feel threatend?

Should I feel threatened by the statue of Orville Hubbard outside Dearborn City Hall who was a nationally known racist who defied state federal laws to keep Dearborn "clean"? Should I feel threatened and unwelcome when I go to the National Mall and look at all the monuments to 'great' men who were known slave owners? And speaking of Cobo, not only was he the sitting mayor who presided over the beginning of the city's decline, but he also played to racial fears to get elected and maintain office. Should I feel threatened and unwelcome when I go to an event at "COBO" Hall?

Your rational makes ZERO sense Exmotowner. Stay an ex...I don't want you back. Hows that for welcoming...

(Message edited by Detroit_stylin on May 04, 2007)
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 708
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 11:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Should I feel threatened and unwelcome when I go to the National Mall and look at all the monuments to great men who were know slave owners?"

Now you already know that their minds are boggled at the thought of such a perception...
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9094
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 11:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Had me boggled...but only for a moment.

Takes a while for another viewpoint to sink in sometimes.

D, that was really great. Thanks.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 271
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can call me what ever you want guys. I could care less, but yea that big fist offends me. Stylin, we will NEVER see eye to eye unless I agree with every thing you say and do! If you think Im the only one that feels that way about that "monument", your just kidding yourselves. call me what you want and Stylin, Im pretty sure of why you dont want me back but I coming back anyway. Thanks. You have a great day!
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3993
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 1:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Makes me wonder wonder what if the fist was a tribute to Rocky Marciano would it be offensive to you then pleasestayanexmotwoner?
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 273
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know damn good and well that the black fist (VERTICAL) is the black power symbol! Im coming back stylin and would love a hug!
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 709
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The sculptor wasn't even black... this is stupid.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4001
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You know damn good and well that the black fist (VERTICAL) is the black power symbol! Im coming back stylin and would love a hug!



Naw trust me. I know your type specifically. You'd probably think I was trying to murder you (you know how them coloreds are). So save yourself the daydream...

But that isn't the case is it since the fist is sitting square on a horizontal plane meaning the fist is merely black...

So with is the issue with you then?
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 558
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn right the Black Power fist is vertical.





The White Power fist is horizontal with a latex glove to prevent infection.



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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4002
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol Q...
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Smitch
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Username: Smitch

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^^LMAO!!!
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Karenk
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Username: Karenk

Post Number: 35
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you people hear yourselves? You really do sound strange over this piece of "art". Why are you are always so mad about everything. Why does it have to MEAN something, it's just a stupid piece of metal for G-ds sake. It's shiney, I guess pretty, but it won't feed anyone or unburn any houses - but it's not supposed to. It's ART. p.s. Who's paying for it?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9053
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KarneK - The back and forth is about the ridiculous claim of the Joe Louis fist being a sign of 'get out whitey.'

The original post was just a joke. There is no such sculpture going up.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9097
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome Smitch and Karenk.


How would we hear ourselves if we cannot even hear those around us?! (heh)


giggling like a child at Ex and Stylin's budding love affair here...
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4006
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 3:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah hearty welcome to forum you two just be advised that some humor is harder to detect than others.


lol Gannon
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 250
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 3:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the laughs! :D
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 274
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 6:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yea guys, it is after all ART. Whats suppose to happen when you look at art? Its suppose to make you feel something right? Well, it works!
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5462
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 6:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, at least your honest, and have shown yourself for what you really are. It's much better than having to guess and assume.
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Saintme
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Username: Saintme

Post Number: 40
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 2:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Growing up outside of the city (Wyandotte) it never once crossed my mind that this was a racist monument, or was meant to symbolize black power or what have you. The first time I heard that was when I joined this forum. Then again, I also didn't know it was supposed to be Joe Louis' fist until I joined.
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Saintme
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Username: Saintme

Post Number: 41
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I DID, however, always think it was ugly.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5465
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 10:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ex "I date black men" motowner, how is that supposed to, in anyway, whatsoever, negate the fact that you still want and need to view the Fist as a black-power symbol so that you can justify your own prejudices? At the end of the day, that's all it it. It's not the monuments fault that you see black power, in it, it's your own fault and shortcomings. You can be as perpetually as mad and pissed as you want to be; but, why don't you try directing that anger at the appropriate parties instead of seeing red (black power) in the most inane of and trivial things. Again, sounds to me like you have some serious personal demons that need working on, and it's really sad who you choose to take that out against.
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 314
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 1:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exmotowner, can you please leave the dinner table. Your posts are getting more and more obnoxious

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