Renfirst Member Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 12:44 am: | |
Was wondering if anyone could shed light on a snippet I caught on WXYZ's 11 o'clock news about Kilpatrick? Didn't get a chance to catch the whole thing ... |
Psip Member Username: Psip
Post Number: 1870 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:12 am: | |
Christine "DYKWTFIAM" Beatty claimed Steve Wilson lied and cheated to find the truth. Gotta love Chrissy. |
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 844 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:33 am: | |
Didn't he used to post here? |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9120 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:43 am: | |
Yes, and he promised that he would look into Ilitch and redlining. When faced with his own shady history as brought up in the Metro Times he ran away. I don't doubt that KK does some stupid stuff but I think that Wilson is even more crooked and full os shit than Kwame but he doesn't feel the need to answer to anyone. |
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:38 am: | |
I am NO fan of Steve Wilson, but let's face it, KK put himself into this situation. Even the APPEARANCE of wrong-doing is something he should be looking to avoid, given his less than stellar track record. |
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua
Post Number: 1184 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:43 am: | |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070510/NEW S01/705100425 |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1157 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 9:30 am: | |
wow...pretty heated comments on that freep board... "So...whatcha all complaining about? YOU re-elected him! I still cant believe it....glad I left!" "Stupid as stupid does. The citizens of Detroit are getting exactly what they voted for." There's even some racial posts... TYPICAL NEGRO BEHAVIOR And Detroit negroes love it because they think he is sticking it to whitey when he is really just screwing them over pretty disgusting... but this one is actually kind of funny... "Just a further testament that WE NEED TO DOUBLE THE MAYOR'S SALARY, BECAUSE KWAME JUST AIN'T MAKIN' IT THESE DAYS...Times are tough. Kwame is having financial troubles too. Why doesn't Detroit dissolve Council, suspend elections, and declare Kwame 'King'?" |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9121 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 9:32 am: | |
quote:I am NO fan of Steve Wilson, but let's face it, KK put himself into this situation. Even the APPEARANCE of wrong-doing is something he should be looking to avoid, given his less than stellar track record. Agreed. KK needs an occasional integrity check but I question whether someone with as little integrity as Steve Wilson is a fair, unbiased source. |
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed
Post Number: 137 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 10:23 am: | |
It's funny how so many people rush to judge and criticise the mayor about his use of "PRIVATE DOLLARS", and give KING BUSH the MURDERER a pass on LOOSING 9 BILLION DOLLARS IN IRAQ and facilitating a 16 Billion Dollar gift to BIG OIL. Mabe not funny, BUT TYPICAL!! |
Bumble Member Username: Bumble
Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 10:58 am: | |
When Joe Harris exposed the mayor's, um, financial creativity, no one took notice and he was about as unbiased as you're going to get in that trade. Steve Wilson takes Kilpatrick to task, and suddenly the sky is falling because he's a muckraker. How unbiased does one need to be to look at credit card bills? Can Fred Phelps look at Kilpatrick's credit card bills and call him a thief? |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 426 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 12:49 pm: | |
From a trade website... SHAM MARTYRS Fired former WTVT reporter Steve Wilson, when asked how he could afford a luxury townhouse on a reporter's salary, responded..... "Neither (wife) Jane (Akre) nor I now own--NOR HAVE WE EVER OWNED--a $1.4 million beach townhouse in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida." St. Johns, Florida, Tax Records OWNER INFORMATION Owner(s): WILSON STEPHEN G AKRE JANE E, ETUX Owner Relationship:HUSBAND/WIFE Property Address:406 ROYAL TERN RD S PONTE VEDRA BEACH FL 32082-7222 PROPERTY INFORMATION County:ST. JOHNS Assessor's Parcel Number:00544320310 Property Type:SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE - TOWNHOUSE Subdivision:MARSH LNDG/SAWGRASS 32A BUILDING/IMPROVEMENT CHARACTERISTICS Building Type:SINGLE FAMILY Number of Buildings:1 Year Built:2000 Living Square Feet:5209 Pool:YES Pool Type:CONCRETE Number of Stories:1.50 Construction Type:MASONRY Construction Quality:LUXURY LAST SALE INFORMATION Sale Date:09/04/2002 Seller Name:WELDE DONALD J & P J TRUST Sale Price:$1,386,700.00 Deed Type:GRANT DEED Mortgage Amount:$300,700.00 Mortgage Type:CONVENTIONAL Mortgage Term:30 YEARS Lender Name:THORNBURG MTG HM LOANS Recording Date:09/17/2002 Document Number:54282 Recording Book/Page:Book 1815, Page 499 Title Company:WATSON & OSBORNE TITLE SVCS <<<>>> http://www.foxbghsuit.com/Link 14.html |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4288 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 12:59 pm: | |
Lvnthed... maybe you better go back and reread the Non-Detroit Issues threads. Except for about 1/2 dozen forumers, most of the rest can't stand Dubya. So don't get so defensive of KK... |
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289
Post Number: 1289 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:02 pm: | |
So the guy lives in a nice house ? who gives a shit if the guy has money or how he got it.. thats nobody elses business and it just adds dirt... Same thing with Kwame... Who gives a shit if he stayed in a nice hotel? Name one politician who doesnt do that kinda shit? Thats nothing compared to the cronism that the citizens of Detroit had to put up with during the Colman Young years. |
Homer Member Username: Homer
Post Number: 168 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:12 pm: | |
So Coleman Young Raped and plundered the city so it's OK if Kwame does the same? Kwame is a crooked politician who's in bed with Matty Moroun, and others. The more dirt that is piled on his fat ass the better for us all. |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1158 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
I don't understand why everyone is attacking the messenger here... the issue should be whether Kwame's wife and kids are going on vacation at the expense of Detroit taxpayers |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 427 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
Nobody is attacking the messenger, just questioning his integrity. I like the fact that he pointed out this issue about the Mayor. I just find Steve Wilson's reporting tactics crude. I am surprised he hasn't been punched yet. There are ways to get the same information with being an ass. I think Steve likes the fact the HE becomes the story. I also don't like the fact that not only does he not live in Detroit, he doesn't even live in Michigan. |
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 812 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:40 pm: | |
I think that "questioning his integrity" is a typical response of people when confronting the ugly things that muckrakers expose. How do you think they uncover things that others, ashamed, want to keep very hidden? Of course they are devious - they have to be. I remember studying Sinclair's "muckraking" in Chicago's slaughterhouses and he was very disliked and attacked. He triumphed in the historical record, though. Like many journalists of today, he was't popular with leaders and he wasn't invited to people's homes, dinners and parties. It was uncouth to talk about the things he wrote about. Teddy Roosevelt said this about the muckrakers: "There are, in the body politic, economic and social, many and grave evils, and there is urgent necessity for the sternest war upon them. There should be relentless exposure of and attack upon every evil man whether politician or business man, every evil practice, whether in politics, in business, or in social life. I hail as a benefactor every writer or speaker, every man who, on the platform, or in book, magazine, or newspaper, with merciless severity makes such attack, provided always that he in his turn remembers that the attack is of use only if it is absolutely truthful." |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 428 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:45 pm: | |
Why did it take Steve Wilson nine months to get the story out? If he really wanted people to know the truth, why did he sit on it until sweeps month? That's why I question his integrity. |
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone
Post Number: 59 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
I would bet that Steve Wilson didn't make the decision to hold the story until sweeps month. My guess is that Channel 7 did, knowing it would give their ratings a boost. |
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 813 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:53 pm: | |
Maybe it was his boss' decision? Maybe it was a company decision? Maybe the Feds asked him to wait - who knows? I don't see that it is an "integrity" issue. Ugly is ugly - we do want to blame the messenger. Cops, lawyers, reporters, priests - all the people who are down in the gutters with the sewage of this world are so disliked. We think we're so much better and finer... |
Psip Member Username: Psip
Post Number: 1872 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 2:04 pm: | |
"Nobody is attacking the messenger," Wash_man, that is EXACTLY what you are doing. Admit it. Every word after that statement is further supports your "theory". Now you can attack me, or, rethink your arguments and make a compelling statement. I am listening as to why this story is not in the public interest. |
Iseries840 Member Username: Iseries840
Post Number: 418 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 3:15 pm: | |
The money that Kilpatrick spent WAS NOT taxpayer funds, but it is illegal for charities to spend money on vacations and very inappropriate for the public figure to be doing such things. I just hope this has nothing to do with kickbacks or bribes. |
Renfirst Member Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
Has anyone caught Steve Wilson on the documentary, The Corporation. He comes out as a stand up guy. It looks like he's really looking to make a name for himself. I don't think he's doing a great job. |
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys
Post Number: 532 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 6:46 pm: | |
Would this be any different if former freep writer and current Channel 4 reporter M.L. Elrick did this story? He exposed Kwame's credit card scandal and everyone was mostly appreciative. While I view M.L. as more of a standup guy than Steve Wilson, whose background and ethics are definitely questionable, the alleged transgressions of Kwame still shouldn't be overlooked by a messenger. Basically why does it matter who does this type of story, and who cares how they reach their conclusions based on genuine investigative journalism. A public official shouldn't have anything to hide. If someone has to rake some muck, so be it. |
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 68 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 10:09 pm: | |
Ok. So I read the story etc. But did he actually do anything wrong? Or is this just another "lets get everyone to hate Detroit/the mayor?" |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2111 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 10:11 pm: | |
Wilson occasionally tries to create mountains out of molehills - did anyone see his piece on Conyers' son getting into a car accident? Some idiot in Royal Oak wanted Conyers to pay for her car/car repairs because she couldn't - she didn't have any collision insurance on the vehicle even though she still owed something like $18,000 on it! Sorry, but under Michigan law all she's legally entitled to is $500 mini-tort. |
Michigansheik Member Username: Michigansheik
Post Number: 191 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 7:23 am: | |
Kk's problem will be with the IRS, well his civic fund and the IRS. |
Club_boss Member Username: Club_boss
Post Number: 86 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 8:44 am: | |
Same complaint, lavish lifestyle that is way beyond his means, or his lack of discretion in covering them up, gives America a glimpse of the corruption and arrogance of the political elite that runs one of Americas poorest cities. Navigate
The Motor City, where one in three households is too poor to own a car, the mayors family was outfitted with a $57,000 SUV. From the January 21, 2005 Detroit Free Press front-page headline, Detroits mayor too wild for DC cops, his record of shenanigans and debauchery are legendary. He certainly is a worldly man, his resent jaunts include: California
Now the mayor (rug-rats, wife, and baby sitter in-tow) dropped $8,605, for a one-week stay ($8600.00 for one week?) at a posh California resort last August. South Africa
Where the mayor stayed for three nights at a luxury Capetown hotel, traveling on a Congressional fact-finding tour to Africa. He traveled with his mother Congresswoman Carolyn Cheeks-Kilpatrick (another crook) and others. Florida
The football folks wanted Kilpatrick for a pep talk about what a great event it really was
and the NFL tells us since he was their guest, they picked up all his expenses
But P. Diddy (I mean the mayor) needed to roll in style, and exceeded even the NFLs generositythe $376 limo fare was charged to the city credit card and paid by Detroit taxpayers, along with a $221 dinner at the elegant Fairmont Hotel (try a diet) and another $92 for phone calls at inflated hotel rates. New York CFO search Was it necessary for him to stay at one of the citys most expensive hotels? He stayed in a suite, which ran $864-a-night. Vegas
The U.S. Conference of Mayors
Another suite @ $327 a night. His chief of staff (AKA mistress) runs defense for him like a big ten football team. http://www.wxyz.com/content/ne ws/investigators/story.aspx?co ntent_id=b1491db7-cf6a-4c85-b2 62-ef7cf2756bce Reelect Him...Give him another chance, there are new restaurants, bars, and women awaiting him. FOUR MORE YEARS... |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2117 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 8:59 am: | |
"resent" jaunts - Freudian slip? |
Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl
Post Number: 265 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 9:47 am: | |
Was it necessary for him to stay at one of the citys most expensive hotels? He stayed in a suite, which ran $864-a-night. The mayor is representing the City of Detroit when he travels for both business and personal reasons. While I don't think he needs to stay in the most expensive places when he is on business trips, I think it's appropriate that he is in some of the more upscale spots. When I travel for business, I stay at a Westin, W, Club Quarters, Hilton or Mariott (and usually in that order, depending on what the city has to offer). Is anyone questioning where Richard Daley or Michael Bloomberg stay when they travel or how much the room is??? |
Baltgar Member Username: Baltgar
Post Number: 65 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 9:55 am: | |
I think it would be a better representation and set a good example if he did not stay in the most expensive hotels. There is nothing wrong with a middle of road hotel. The difference between Detroit and those other mayors is that their city and state are not in a financial crisis. |
Bumble Member Username: Bumble
Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:06 am: | |
quote:Is anyone questioning where Richard Daley or Michael Bloomberg stay when they travel or how much the room is??? Detroit was in the same league as these mayors' cities only briefly, and that was a long time ago. Detroit isn't even in the same league as Indianapolis now. |
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone
Post Number: 64 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:38 am: | |
The real question is LEADERSHIP. If our leaders won't help rein in the spending, why should the rest of the employees? In my opinion, the Mayor should be setting an example of how to be cost-conscious instead of how to avail oneself of every luxury available to him and his family. |
Quinn Member Username: Quinn
Post Number: 1304 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:30 pm: | |
I'm wondering, does anyone remember if WDIV or WJBK picked up and ran with any of the previous stories by Steve Wilson (aka the Navigator, Washington DC Clubs, etc.)? I can't find anything on the other channels about this...and it makes me wonder why? I don't think this is good and I'm not defending the mayor, it looks like a sloppy mistake to me, but is it really all it's cracked up to be? I have a hunch Steve Wilson and WXYZ is pumping this up for ratings. For example, I just watched a clip from WXYZ where he says the Mayor's office isn't giving any proof and why should be go on their word? Then he says that a review of Archer's credit card statements were way more frugal than Kilpatricks...with no proof. Wow...what a statement...and from a journalist with no proof. I'm just saying...smacks of ratings grabber. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 87 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:41 pm: | |
Steve Wilson is simply doing his job. That's what he gets paid to do...expose corruption whenever, wherever and by whomever. I found it interesting that the Free Press published the expose on the front page along with an article about the Detroit Fire Department equipment falling apart putting firemen and residents at risk. Kwames priorities are not in the right place, no matter what his empty promises were before he was re-elected. You asked for him, you got him. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9125 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:53 pm: | |
While KK has done some dumb things I have a couple questions: 1. Why should we, given his track record assume what Steve Wilson says as fact (although it probably is in this situation). One could look at my bills and state that I spend thousands a month and most of my charges are at bars. That is technically true since my bills are about 4K a month and most of my charges on my charge card (maybe 3-4 a month) are at the bar (2-3 times amonth). 2. Even if he has messed up the claims that he needs to show leadership are way too dismissive. He has taken on the unions, is working on plans to improve neighborhoods, is very well respected by the development community, has been working to reduce beauracracy in the government, working to open the city to more charters, etc, etc. One stupid act doesn't dismiss the good he has done. But it is a typical attitude in this region to make comments like "You asked for him, you got him." and ignore a lot that he has done to change how Detroit operates and does business. There is still a million things that can be improved but dismissing the good is stupid but all too common in this idiotic region. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 88 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 1:50 pm: | |
Kwame is full of empty promises. What has he done for the City of Detroit other than rape it's citizens by scamming funds? Nothing! Drive down any street in the inner-city and see the piles of rubbish, boarded houses, burned out houses, empty businesses and tell me what he has done that is so good for the City. Jt1, I respect what you are saying, however, you are not an elected official that is representing a City. Kwame is. Detroit is failing, frailing, grasping; Kwame is rubbing the citizens noses in it. He flaunts his position by taking money and spending it foolishly. He is living high and takes a "vacation" at some posh hotel in California with his family AND a babysitter!!!! Come on...give Detroit residents a break and show some leadership qualities that he said he would have when he was campaigning. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 751 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 2:05 pm: | |
"That is technically true since my bills are about 4K a month and most of my charges on my charge card (maybe 3-4 a month) are at the bar " I need to hang out with you! |
Club_boss Member Username: Club_boss
Post Number: 87 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 2:07 pm: | |
One could look at my bills and state that I spend thousands a month and most of my charges are at bars Difference between you and Kilpatrick, he is the mayor, a duly elected public official, at one time he knew what that meant. I do not believe he is a completely corrupt and incompetent mayor, to the contrary, I think Kilpatrick has done good deeds for the city. I remember hearing him speak this past election; Kilpatrick made sense and still does make sense. The issues I have posted deal directly with his character (or lack thereof) and honor, he has lost the meaning of those words somewhere on his journey. President Clinton is a fair comparison as well as good example; his character just about got him impeached. Back to Kilpatrick, he is creating and shaping his own legacy, instead of being remembered as a shallow, immature, young man who spent money like a drunken sailor, who wined and dined himself into the Gourmands Hall Of Fame, instead try and see if history can call you one of the best and brightest mayors Detroit ever had. Sorry about that (Message edited by club boss on May 11, 2007) |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9127 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 2:09 pm: | |
The point was that I use my charge card very little, spen little time at the bars but presnetingtwo factual pieces of info in a certain manner don't always paint the truth. SW may use this type of rationale for some of his reporting. I certainly can't afford 4k at the bar. |
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 723 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 2:11 pm: | |
Difference between you and Fitzpatrick, he is the mayor, Who? You need to stop drinkin', boy! |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1166 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:08 pm: | |
JT1: Going by your analogy, I don't think anyone is concerned with what percentage $8,600 is out of the the total amount of $$$ Kwame spends when he's on business... The issue is whether he dipped into a fund he wasn't supposed to in order to pay for a vacation for his family at a posh hotel with money that is supposed to benefit the people of Detroit...whether what he allegedly took is a large or small amount out of his overall expenditures is not relevant |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4302 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:15 pm: | |
Unfotunately the mayors girth immediately conjours up a "living high off the hog" or "feeding from the public trough" mentality in a lot of folks throughout Southeast Michigan. As dumb as it may sound, he needs to slim down in the future in order to get some semblence of respectability back from those folks who are offended by his excessive lavish lifestyle. And he has no business having a charity where he and his family are the biggest receipients of all that "goodwill". |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 808 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:16 pm: | |
The Civic Fund's payment of Kilpatrick vacation expenses is a legitimate story. It's a blatant "workin the system" incident. Steve Wilson's methods might be annoying but the story is legitimate news. On the other hand, Wilson and WXYZ screwed up in the handling of the Conyers automobile accident story. They created all kinds of hulabaloo and headlines over a $400 matter. The story is clear that this involved a verbal promise about an insurance deductible for one of the drivers. There was no promise made to the driver who was uninsured. Conyers had no obligation of any sort to that driver. Regardless of whether the promise was made by a public figure, I don't think that such $400 disputes are news. Mr. Wilson is pretty consistent in balancing each one of his good stories with trumped up bullshit ones. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9128 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:23 pm: | |
thejesus - I wasn't trying to point out percentages. I was pointing out the ease of manipulating data to make a story. I think KK is stupid for doing this regardless and it sounds shady. My point was that someone that lacks integrity such as Steve Wilson can make a story out even if one doesn't exist. That was the intent of my clumsy example. I would think at this point KK would have learned that spending a dollar whether it be the city's dollar, a charities or his own will be scrutinized. That doesn't change the fact that I take Steve Wilson's exclusives with a grain of salt. Someone above mentioned M.L. Elrick. IMO if M.L. Elrick did the story I wouldn't be so skeptical. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 89 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:30 pm: | |
Why is Steve Wilson's integrity questioned? Don't shoot the messenger! |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9129 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:38 pm: | |
His integrity is being questioned because I believe that he tends to skew or manipulate facts to make his case. I am sure that he is usually correct but he has been proven in the past to lie or exaggerate. If the messenger is a liar the questions need to be asked. Again, KK spending like this is stupid and it very well may have been corrupt but I do not take everything Steve Wilson says as fact. There is history to back up this belief. I am not sticking up for KK but I am not ignorant enough to believe everything that Steve Wilson says either. Let's say that I make a claim on the news that you stole $1MM from someone. Your argument would imply that it is true and people should not question my claim. If the claim is make my a laundry list of others I would believe it without question. Steve Wilson has a track record that makes me wonder where or how he formulates his information. |
Quinn Member Username: Quinn
Post Number: 1306 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:45 pm: | |
Because sometimes Journalists lack integrity, and make things up for profit. Sometimes...and it's appropriate to look at that here. Have a free press yes, but look at who is reporting. What's wrong with that? Does anyone know why he was fired from WTVT? Also...the "Kilpatrick Civic Fund" isn't set up to help out the people of detroit. It's a private organization and can do whatever they want to with their money. Now, the $1200 or so I saw charged to a city credit card...I'd like to see that paid back. Or has it already? Oh wait...looks like it has. So if this was a mistake to charge $1208 to the city's credit card, and it has been paid back, then what's the problem?
Come on guys this is really a non-story. The mayor's staff handled it poorly, yes, but not a story. |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1168 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:51 pm: | |
well, at this point it doesn't really matter who made the allegation... the allegation is out there and if it's unsubstantiated, KK's people will present evidence to the contrary...and if it's legit, then we'll get a line of excuses from KK's people saying that the law does not require the Mayor to disclose specific expenses paid out of funds established by private donors, as they've done... you don't have to the reporter JT, but given KK's response, I smell a rat...that said, I don't see why this little scandal should overshadow the Mayor's positive contributions to the city during his tenure... |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9130 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:56 pm: | |
I agree that KKs people need to be upfront with all of this stuff. If they get caught, admit it and learn to quit being so stupid. If it is distorted come out with the facts. |
Iseries840 Member Username: Iseries840
Post Number: 421 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 4:16 pm: | |
I'm sorry, but tax-free charities cannot "do whatever they want to with their money". I know lots of people do these things but a Mayor of a large city should be not. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4304 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 4:38 pm: | |
Well it looks like the IRS will be closing that loophole. Wonder if they'll go after it for back taxes? |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 90 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 5:59 pm: | |
Tax free charities huh? I wonder what the people who contributed to this so called "Kilpatrick Civic Fund" are thinking. I honestly don't think that they would be pleased that a lot of their money is being used for posh hotels, babysitters, extra rooms for the children, and who knows what else. When I contribute money to a cause, I want to know and be confident that MY hard earned money is going for a good cause, not someones vacation. Sorry Thejesus, I don't see any "positive contributions to the city during his tenure..." He has snowed the people of Detroit and has this office locked up for the rest of his life because people WANT to believe him. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4306 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:33 pm: | |
Buyamerican, I believe that a lot of the folks who contributed to this "charity" were business folks or lobbyists who wanted to do business in Detroit or with the city. So they probably had deep pockets and certainly won't make a stink. I doubt any youngsters emptied out their piggy bank for that "charity". I do hope that this doesn't tarnish KK too badly. In order for Detroit to move forward in these trying times, city government cannot afford to be sidetracked by any more scandal. |
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch
Post Number: 2281 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:44 pm: | |
quote:I don't see why this little scandal should overshadow the Mayor's positive contributions to the city during his tenure... Please, please tell me: what are those positive contributions? |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 2:38 pm: | |
For Quinn: 1) WDIV and WJBK both reported on the Mayor's Civic Fund the day after 7 broke it. Both 2 and 4 made it their second stories (I'm guessing they felt to lame making it the lead?). 2 had Andrea Isom on it, 4 had Kevin Dietz. The next day, 4 had M.L. Elrick covering it. Didn't watch 2 that day. You also probably noticed that for the past two days, the Free Press and News have reported on it (it was on the front page of the Free Press). 2) You said the Kilpatrick Civic Fund "isn't set up to help out the people of detroit." You are wrong, however. It was specfically set up, according to the documents on the website, to improve the economic welfare of the people of Detroit, educate citizens about the importance of voting, empower citizens, and reduce crime. It does not say it was set up to take the mayor, his wife and kids and a nanny to to a swanky resort for a week. So yes, this is a violation. And yes, it looks like it's illegal. 3) I don't know Wilson that well (I try not to watch a lot of local news when I don't have to), but you allude to him being unethical without citing anything at all. Could you? (Message edited by gplimpton on May 12, 2007) |
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 69 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 5:36 pm: | |
Gplimpton- Hmmmm post 2 and already bashing. "I don't watch a lot of local news" Boy you sure can tell us what every channel says about the mayor. Stay in the burbs dude. |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 3 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 5:46 pm: | |
Is it called bashing when you break the law? |
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 92 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 12:20 pm: | |
Kwame needs a bit more tutoring from Rodger Penske. I used to be in a business that required me to be bonded. The rule was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, mix public funds with private funds. Never use Public credit for personal use, to pay back later. To do so would be called, commingling. Not a good thing to do if you wish to keep your integrity. Once integrity is lost, it can never be regained. |
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 468 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 12:22 pm: | |
I don't think you need to have integrity to be voted in as Mayor of Detroit. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 91 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 2:32 pm: | |
INTEGRITY: adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honest Unfortunately, the residents of Detroit didn't know the meaning of this word. Kwame certainly doesn't. Do the residents of Detroit think that driving big expensive cars, having an entourage of bodyguards, sending his children to special schools and having their own driver, going on lavish "meetings" or "vacations" at taxpayers expense show a mayor with integrity? If I lived in Detroit I'd be outraged at him and the way he flaunts his status in front of me. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 92 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:25 pm: | |
He's proven again by his actions with the Channel 7 news reporter that he isn't in control of himself. He is a guilty man with no remorse. His motto is "screw Detroit, I'll take what I can" |
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone
Post Number: 65 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:31 pm: | |
To Quote the Mayor himself: "It's just the 'legend' of Kwame Kilpatrick"..... I couldn't stop laughing..wonder if he ever heard the saying "a legend in his own mind"? |
Gplimpton Member Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 6 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:33 pm: | |
HE GRABBED HIS MICROPHONE AND THREW IT!!! HOLY CRAP!! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT? |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 93 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:36 pm: | |
Not one person sitting in the audience listening to him reacted the way he wanted them to. They didn't applaud any of his stupid comments, they gave him blank stares. This mayor is as blueidone says, "a legend in his own mind". What an inflated ego he possesses. |
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 735 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 4:33 am: | |
Hey man, he was due. Don't act all surprised. FREMAN HENDRIX IN '05! (Better late than never.) |
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone
Post Number: 66 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 8:21 am: | |
And according to Fox2 this morning, the Mayor says that he will not do anything different in the future. He will continue to travel in the same style and use the same type of funds to pay for it. I suspect the IRS may have some problems with that. But it just goes to show that he is clueless when it comes to removing even the "appearance of an impropriety". At least in this very trying time, when a lot of Detroiters are trying to figure out how to keep the lights on, one would think that he could travel a little less extragavantly and let the dollars in the civic fund go to those who are in true NEED. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 94 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 8:43 am: | |
Kwame is "the man" in Detroit and he knows it. He bucks the system and it's only suburbanite media that is outing him. As long as the "Detroiters" don't complain he will continue raping them. When Detroiters finally revolt, he'll back off and go quietly...maybe. He has the mayors office locked up for years to come, just like Coleman did. No one in his administration has the power to question him, they are afraid of losing their jobs. |
Quinn Member Username: Quinn
Post Number: 1312 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:21 am: | |
YOU ARE ALL CRAZY!!!! IRS doesn't give a crap. It's a private PAC...in case you've missed it, politicians have been using those funds for years to do whatever the hell they want. THIS IS CHANNEL 7 WERKIN' IT FOR SWEEPS PEOPLE. Don't fall for all this crap. Rhymeswithrawk...you've got to be kidding me about Hendrix. Let me refresh your memory...Hendrix used money from his campaign-for-mayor fund to lease a new cadillac for his own personal use. So personal that up until last fall he was still using it! How do I know? I parked next to him and the Mrs., in the same car, at the parking garage next to the Palladium in Birmingham. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/39198.html Nothing illegal, but using "Little-grandma-smith's" $50 campaign contribution to haul your a$$ around in luxury doesn't look to above board. And that's one of a ton of stuff I remember from the 2005 campaign season. My point: if you look you'll find reasons to hate everyone. I'm not the BIGGEST Kwame fan (those who know me know that I really rooted for another for mayor), but if you're going to pull that Hendrix crap again, lets just be contextual and talk the truth. Non of this rewriting of history to make Hendrix seem better than the typical, take-advantage-of-the-system, low-life politician he was and can't get elected to be anymore. GEESH! On a rampage! The Quinn is Back! Lets find the good stuff that people are doing, champion and encourage that, and move forward. There isn't an election for two more years. Work with what we've got... |
Bumble Member Username: Bumble
Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:24 am: | |
I'm glad I don't work for the mayor or his cronies. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9186 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:29 am: | |
quote:Lets find the good stuff that people are doing, champion and encourage that, and move forward. Not the metro Detroit way. It is easier to bitch based upon unfounded facts (I know I do it too often) than to look at the positive or try to help out. |
Rotation_slim Member Username: Rotation_slim
Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:39 am: | |
wrong quinn, IRS does care.. if KK uses money from that fund for personal enrichment.. the IRS wants it's cut, as it is now "income" to KK.. that is why the IRS cares. It is the same thing as when execs get free jet travel from their company for personal trips, the IRS taxes them on that "income" (in actual practice company pays extra cash to the exec to pay for that extra tax load.. it is called "gross up", and it is repugnant.) |
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 183 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:50 am: | |
It's worse than that Rotation. You are correct that Kwame is likely not reporting all of his income. But in addition, it is improper to use 501(c)(3) money for the type of expenses alleged. This is not something that could be considered gray area, it is clearly wrong. This type of activity could result in revocation of the entities charitable status and fines to those responsible. In extreme cases, it may result in jail time. For a public figure to be involved in something like this is particularly troubling. We don't know who is providing 500,000 a year in donations to this fund. The danger is that someone is paying into the charity to enrich Kwame to garner Kwame's favor. Good government is transparent. This administration is anything but transparent. |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1226 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 11:21 am: | |
wow...and KK was just starting to win me back over after the Navigator/city credit card debacle... this is all very disappointing... when's he up for reelection again? year after next? (Message edited by thejesus on May 16, 2007) |
Rotation_slim Member Username: Rotation_slim
Post Number: 51 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 12:52 pm: | |
spartacus.. not sure if this is relevant or not, you seem to know a lot more about tax stuff than I, but it is a 501(C)(4), not "(3)" Unsure if that materially changes things (Message edited by rotation_slim on May 16, 2007) |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 95 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 12:59 pm: | |
Thejesus, it doesn't matter when he is up for re-election, the mentality of Detroiters has already shown up. They will vote for him no matter what and the sad fact is, he knows this all too well. What an arrogant SOB to stand there before the crowd yesterday and say he is "just too popular"! |
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 257 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 1:01 pm: | |
It's not a non story. All KK has to do is verify himself that he was in the right. I cringe when Beaty opens her pie hole, so she should stop speaking for him. I didn't vote for Kwame in the last election, but I've supported him since. By not taking accountability to the public he represents and throwing temper tantrums is not the behavior of a respectable person who takes luxury vacations. Also, this whole new neighborhoods initiative with the mountainous chunk of change falls hand in hand with the type of behavior he's presented lately. Can we trust him? Not right now. So come clean...and not by way of F'ing Christine Beaty (if that is what she's still calling herself these days). What also is pissing me off is the "this is the legacy of Kwame Kilpatrick" BS. That's no way to respond to these kinds of accusations. In any other municipality, that kind of arrogance/incompetence would have you terminated in a heart beat. **Add: this image also affects attitudes on a grander level. The counties won't trust him now so so long mass transit, so long Aerotropolis, so long Cobo...and rightfully so. So, quit being a baby come clean!! |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 810 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 1:52 pm: | |
Quinn said, quote:IRS doesn't give a crap. It's a private PAC...in case you've missed it, politicians have been using those funds for years to do whatever the hell they want.
Wrong Quinn. The Civic Fund is a non-profit foundation with IRS tax exempt status. It is not a PAC. The mayor controls a couple of PACs as well, but I'm sure that he's never derived any private gain from those. Cough. This kind of conduct is not just a Kwame thing but it is disappointing nonetheless. Plenty of other politicians and businesspersons "work" the non-profit system to their private gain. That doesn't make it right though. Indeed, shouldn't our elected leaders adhere to the highest standards? P.S. It's interesting that attorney Phillips didn't provide any details when he announced at the press conference last week that Mayor Kilpatrick was at the resort to raise funds for the Civic Fund. One two-hour lunch with a donor doesn't support a week-long $8000 vacation for the entire family. (Message edited by swingline on May 16, 2007) |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1229 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 1:56 pm: | |
Buyamerican... he's not wildly popular by any stretch of the imagination...he won his last election with 53% of the vote... it doesn't take very much to tip the scale out of his favor and move that 3% the other way... |
Quinn Member Username: Quinn
Post Number: 1315 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:18 pm: | |
Thejesus, I hate to break it to you, but yes Kwame is wildly popular. Don't forget, he won the election by 10 points, when he was predicted by almost every news organization to loose by 10 points. A 20 point swing. Anyone here who was around at the election will remember Hendrix's stunning, stinging and surprising defeat. Now that's almost 2 years ago... Swing, I guess I'm blown away by the shear stupidity of this then. Why on earth would Beatty write a check to this resort to cover for this then? I guess I should be glad if it comes to light that there's alot of wrongdoing, since this dumb action is what uncovered it all. I still say...go ahead and investigate that. But in the meantime don't forget about the great stuff going on, aka the Next Detroit initiative, downtown development, etc. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 96 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:43 pm: | |
Great stuff going on??? I must be missing something. Maybe some new housing but no fire protection because the equipment is falling apart. Gangs, murders, (10 killed a couple of week-ends ago), beatings, drive-bys, robberies, burned out homes, no businesses....great stuff huh. It takes more than "the great ones'" presence to convince me that Detroit is making a comeback. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9197 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:44 pm: | |
quote:It takes more than "the great ones'" presence to convince me that Detroit is making a comeback. Actually nothing could convince you since you obviously have your mind already made up. |
Club_boss Member Username: Club_boss
Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:48 pm: | |
"Swing, I guess I'm blown away by the shear stupidity of this then. Why on earth would Beatty write a check to this resort to cover for this then?" Good Question... And why and how did she write a "check" for almost $10,000.00 to pay for their stay. That is not SOP in the hotel business. I've had several fancy titles in a couple of high-end hotels and I never heard of "writing a check" for this amount of money. She (Beatty) or someone speaking on her behalf would have had to clear that with the General Manager (no front desk clerk would accept it without approval) of the hotel prior to checking out. Why not just Visa it? Or maybe write a check for cash? They've had problems with Steve Wilson before, and guilty or not, one would think discretion would be the prudent path to take in all business matters. And how did Steve Wilson get a copy of the cancelled check? |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1231 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
... (Message edited by thejesus on May 16, 2007) |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1232 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
Quinn: He won by about a 5-6% margin, NOT 10%, and a big difference between polling percentages and actual popular vote percentages is not indicative of one's popularity, as you are suggesting... |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9199 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 3:56 pm: | |
Assuming that there was no write in or other silliness he won 53%-47% per this website: http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/e lections/2005temp_usmayor.asp? population=order |
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 816 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 4:08 pm: | |
Kilpatrick is "wildly popular"? First of all, that is not the case in SW Detroit, at all. He is broadly disliked in SW Detroit. Many times SW Detroit resident lament that the Mayor has no use for us because this was Hendrix country last election and we are being punished. But (you will say) those are white and Hispanic people! Kilpatrick is "wildly popular" among black people. Yet it is the educated middle-class blacks who are leaving the city by the thousands annually. So, it can be assumed that Kilpatrick is not "wildly popular" with them. Who is he "wildly popular" with? It must be the very poor, unemployed black residents who are staying in Detroit. I don't doubt that Kilpatrick is wildly popular with them - but they are easily hoodwinked because they are (studies say) uneducated. I do agree that Kilpatrick can be re-elected as long as he continues to run. This attitude about "ya'all's boy" and similar blindnesses has made many people think there is no real hope for this City. It reached the tipping point of poverty and ignorance and went over. |
Bumble Member Username: Bumble
Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 4:21 pm: | |
Kilpatrick is wildly popular among those who get to suckle at his administration's teats. |
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 97 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:38 am: | |
Mw2gs Too bad you can't make a comment without using profanity. Real good attitude. This is a forum discussion, not a place for that kind of language. Do you really believe that anyone with any sense would choose to MOVE back into Detroit while it's in the terrible mess it's in now...run by a mayor who has no regard for the very taxpayers who are funding his lavish lifestyle? People are leaving Detroit in the thousands because of the way the City is run. The voters got what they asked for. Incidentally, not many Detroiters are complaining, it's only the suburban media that's getting the flack. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9206 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:46 am: | |
quote:Do you really believe that anyone with any sense would choose to MOVE back into Detroit while it's in the terrible mess it's in now You just described many forumers. Real good attitude. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 811 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:03 am: | |
Yes, the Mayor's conduct relating to this particular vacation is simply wrong. That fact, though, shouldn't translate into a blanket condemnation of his administration and his initiatives. There are plenty of positive things happening in this city. Major progress is being made to rightsize city government. The city is building on downtown and riverfront development to focus on more neighborhood needs. City leaders have recognized that an urban living lifestyle can attract an educated middle class that every city needs to remain healthy. There is a long way to go, but at least the Kilpatrick administration recognizes what the goal should be. All is not rosy to be sure, but much progress is being made. The "sky is falling" folks in this thread are blinded by their visceral dislike of the mayor and certain aspects of his lifestyle and personal conduct. Those are inadequate benchmarks for the current state of the city. One wonders what these critics have done for Detroit lately. |