Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Metro Detroit (highest public school teacher pay) Previous Next
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4411
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to this report:
http://www.manhattan-institute .org/html/cr_50.htm

"The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour."


How accurate is this report?
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Blueidone
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Username: Blueidone

Post Number: 60
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 6:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you know if the number they are quoting is pay only or pay + fringes?
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 474
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am pretty sure that is pay only.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1163
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how long until someone comes on this thread and says, "but, but, but they don't get to work a full year at that rate"...

spare me...they're still free to work during the summer if they want, and summer vacation exists everywhere else and Detroit is STILL at the top of the list..
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Blueidone
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Username: Blueidone

Post Number: 62
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 9:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only reference I have is a suburban school system where I used to live. About 10 years ago I was told that the average teacher salary was $55K/year...and that their contract stated that they would NOT have more than 5.5 hrs of "pupil contact" per day. I have no idea what it is today.

I applaud all good teachers and feel that they are worth every penny. I know I wouldn't want the job at any price, especially in this day and age.
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Wazootyman
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Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 204
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That seems more like pay and benefits combined...but I could be wrong. Typically you can take your hourly wage, double it and that's your yearly earnings in thousands. $47/hr would be $94,000/yr. Of course, this is counting on a "normal" work schedule, not counting summers and numerous breaks.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5494
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's those damn unions, I tells ya.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1031
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 7:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That 47 an hour is pay and benefits. I'm at the top of the pay scale and don't make near 47 an hour in wages. I don't complain about my pay (except when they short me or screw it up somehow).

Do keep in mind that while we do get summers off, we get NO paid vacations (like other professionals), we take work home each evening (I typically spend 2+ hours a night, and more on weekends, grading and doing lesson plans), and we have to deal with things most other professionals do not (we had TWO gunmen in the building yesterday who held a gun to a security officer's head). I buy my own supplies and resources for the classroom and must continue taking classes to keep my job (those aren't inexpensive). I am more prone to childhood illnesses and catching everything under the sun (and go in to work half dead so my kids don't skip a beat). I volunteer for student activities which keep me after school for hours, will stay after school to tutor a kid, and have to do my OWN schoolwork (so that I can keep my job).

I love what I do and wouldn't trade it for the world but keep in mind that teachers don't just start at 8 and end at 3...we keep going long after most of you hit the bar/turn on the TV/take weekend get-a-ways.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 85
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 7:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I applaud all good teachers and feel that they are worth every penny. I know I wouldn't want the job at any price, especially in this day and age."

I agree with this post.

My hats off to teachers today.
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Carolcb
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Username: Carolcb

Post Number: 633
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 8:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I left Ann Arbor in 1980 - a permanent sub at Pioneer - I was making $83.00 a day - in 1980! Last year, as a sub - where I live now - I was making barely $42.00.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1824
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Remember all this the next time Jenny wants to raise your taxes because the we as the taxpayers foot the bill for $1,450 an hour for retiree health care including a loophole that allows for employees to work a whole 102 hours after the age of 60 and receive full medical coverage.

This shit has got to stop, too much outlandish spending.

Add to this the amount of money some inner-city schools have to spend on security and it is no surprise why the education system is as bad as it.

In a few years teachers and their benefits will eat up over 30% of the money delivered to schools.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 700
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This just in:

The $1,470-an-hour loophole: Retirees work for 13 days to earn lifetime health care.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070511/S CHOOLS/705110408
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 747
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And this is an issue because...?
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Dnvn522
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Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 247
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apparently retired people shouldn't get health care.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1825
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 11:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not when scores of people are working full time without any insurance should their tax dollars pay for someone else lavish benefits.

Nor should a school bus driver of 10 years and a lunch lady of a whole 13 days should not receive free full medical, dental, and vision coverage on the taxpayers dime.

1,450 an hour * 8 hours a day * 180 days of school

Do the math.

(Message edited by _sj_ on May 11, 2007)
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably worth pointing out here that many state and municipal employees, who spend their entire working years with such an employer, usually do NOT qualify for Social Security benefits and/or Medicare. In such cases, it is vital for them to retain medical insurance benefits from the state or local government that employed them.

If you don't get your forty quarters in under Social Security, count on getting zip, nada, from Uncle when you hit 65+.

Getting old is a bitch, but it sure beats the alternative.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4412
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's the loophole where one works 5 years to get benefits? Who are these people and what do they need to do?
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 377
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, let's all take a couple steps back from the ledge...

The benefit is the result of a weakly worded policy, the MEA agrees that "it's an unfair provision...It could be dropped," and it's currently costing $2 million dollars a year.

So you fix this, then proceed to work on the remaining $898 million deficit.

Is this really the area for expending outrage?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1032
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think that people who work such short time periods, as those mentioned in that article, should get lifetime benefits. Those who are in it for the long haul, however, should qualify for benefits. I am not in favor of the loopholes and scamming the educational system. That is only taking away from my kids.

My response was to the pay teachers receive and the amount of work we do...since most here seem to think we bask in the sun during the summer (most of us take classes and prep for the upcoming year) and come home after working 8 hours and do nothing. I spend more than a week over the summer (unpaid) just cleaning and preparing my classroom for the upcoming school year. I spend countless hours working on tweaking my lessons and finding new ways to present the same ol information. I don't think I am an exception to the rule but I do know that there are those teachers out there who do nothing and teach nothing. I am excluding them from my side of the story.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1826
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Is this really the area for expending outrage?



What would be better, cutting benefits or jobs.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1434
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 1:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"but I do know that there are those teachers out there who do nothing and teach nothing."

Yeah, I had a few of them along the way......
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Spartacus
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Username: Spartacus

Post Number: 182
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"we get NO paid vacations (like other professionals)"

You have to be kidding me, right?

I would be willing to bet that that the number is pay only. It is much higher with fringes.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 807
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 2:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray1936 said,
quote:

Probably worth pointing out here that many state and municipal employees, who spend their entire working years with such an employer, usually do NOT qualify for Social Security benefits and/or Medicare. In such cases, it is vital for them to retain medical insurance benefits from the state or local government that employed them.

Yes, that is true in a few states, and the public employees (and their public employers) in those states do not pay FICA and Medicare payroll taxes. I'm pretty certain, though, that Michigan is not one of those states. Teachers in Michigan can receive Social Security retirement benefits and are eligible for Medicare once they turn 65.
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Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1033
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spartacus: No, I am NOT kidding. If we don't work, we don't get paid (for vacations). We CAN have our pay equally distributed all year so we get 26 equal checks. Prior to DPS offering this we were NOT paid for our breaks or the summer. I have my vacations mandated by the school year breaks and can not take them when I would like to, like most other professionals. Why would you think I would lie about something as mundane as getting paid vacations? Those teachers who don't opt for the equal pay all year don't get a check over summer, don't get paid over Christmas, Mid-winter or Easter breaks. I take less in my check each week so that I can get paid over the summer...
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1034
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just figured out my hourly rate. It's 30.14 an hour (before taxes). I am at the top of the pay scale so no way can the 47 an hour mentioned above be wages. It must be benefits included.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 475
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

Unlike many professionals, you get EVERY major holiday off, and usually the many days before and after said holiday. That is all a part of your yearly salary. Sounds like a paid vacation to me.
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Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1035
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many other professionals also get a salary and don't work hourly jobs. In addition to that salary, there are bonuses and paid vacations. Not everyone gets this, but many do...I get my salary and pay for most of the supplies for my employment. Do you purchase necessities for your workplace out of pocket?
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Belleislerunner
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Username: Belleislerunner

Post Number: 297
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dteacher - most people cannot take vacations whenever they like and also must work to get vacations. For instance in the finance/accounting world in which I work, it is practically impossible to take time off at month end/quarter end/year end or the first month or two of the year/or around April 15. Each profession has its own nuances. And sure we get vacation days - but we have to accrue (work) to get them too. And days off can go by any variety of names (sick days, vacation days, PTO) - all the same in the end. And you have the option to get paid over the year or take it during the school year. That's a benefit for which you should be thankful. Some people might prefer to have larger paychecks 9 months of the year and invest the money so they'll have more in the summer. When I worked at Chrysler, managers only got paid once a month - workers every two weeks - was that unfair? No - it just teaches you personal financial management. And every professional on here (architect, lawyer, accountant, finance etc) would tell you they work well more than 40 hrs for their current salary - but we all knew that when we signed our offer letters.
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Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1036
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Belle: I am not complaining. I knew what my pay was going to be like and what I was getting into well before I started. I have to work to accumulate sick days (and my employer took some to help with the deficit...still haven't seen those repaid and doubt I ever will).

My point was that if we don't work (such as for breaks and summer), we don't get paid unless we opt for that with payroll. Most folks on here think that teachers have it easy. I invite anyone to come and join my classroom for a day/week/month and get a real taste for what we do and deal with. The professions you listed (and others) also don't have to purchase their own supplies (out of pocket) for work...teachers do if they care about what they do and the kids they teach. I spent over 4000.00 last year for work supplies such as books, paper, chalk, etc. Show me anyone else who isn't self employed that does that.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 226
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have the highest respect for teachers. They do a great job and I am thankful for the education I got in the public schools. I had good teachers and bad teachers, but the best teachers make up for all of that because they can change your entire view on life and make you understand concepts that were totally out of reach. They work wonders.
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Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1037
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 7:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that note 6nois. I am the last person my students see before they climb the steps to the stage to receive their diplomas. I cry and hug each one. Every single student I had in classes has hugged back and told me, "Thank You for all you've done these last 4 years". Some I hadn't had in class also hug me and thank me for helping them.

Is my pay important? Sure, but not as important as seeing my kids graduate or watching a kid who just can't "get" something all of a sudden have that "aha" moment. Is all the purchasing of supplies and countless hours grading papers and trying to find new ways of teaching worth it? You betcha! The smiles and the tears of my students on graduation day are worth more than anything.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 136
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 7:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am a teacher and make $70,000ish/year work 190 days about 7ish hours a day...that comes to about $52 an hour before benefits.
It is a very difficult and stressful job, but I feel it is well worth the time & financial rewards, but more importantly the personal reward of having a positive impact on today's youth.
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 380
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 7:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

_sj_ replied:
>> Is this really the area for expending outrage?
>
> What would be better, cutting benefits or jobs.}

As I stated before, "So you fix this, then proceed to work on the remaining $898 million deficit."

Save the outrage for the bigger battles.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1038
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 8:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, DPS is below the 70 grand a year for top pay...I sure don't make THAT!
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Yelloweyes
Member
Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 138
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fact: Tenth step with masters is about 70G's for DPS. If one was to receive National Teacher Certification one could make over 80G's with DPS with about 18 years with "the board".
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Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 11:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At which pay step scale are you looking? I must have the wrong one. Top pay for Master's in DPS is about 64,000.00. Our pay step scale doesn't even mention National Cert. Since we are on a Master's pay freeze (newly acquired Master's don't get a pay increase for earning their Master's until who knows when), that 70,000 isn't average for me and others like me. MANY teachers in DPS don't have a Master's. The average they are referring to in that article is for the METRO area, not just DPS. Once a DPS teacher gets to the top of the pay scale, Master's or not, they are no longer at the top pay for Metro teachers. Those new teachers in DPS out-earn their suburban counterparts, but DPS does not out-earn veteran teachers in suburbs.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3485
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 12:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

aha, another "study" funded by another "free-market" organization (are these the same folks who brought us deregulation of the meat-packing industry 25 years ago?)...
These "studies" always seem to take the top salaries of a few people and infer that such pay scales are the norm. Thus pushing the "modest proposal" that public school teachers are overpaid, have cushy jobs, etc.

But who is the source?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind ex.php?title=Manhattan_Institu te_for_Policy_Research
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Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1040
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It does seem that some folks want the public school teachers to be fed to the poor since we are a nuisance.

**playing on Barnesfoto's "modest proposal" reference :-)
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Yelloweyes
Member
Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 139
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 12:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$70,046 is what a step 10 +masters teacher earns according to the DFT contract located here:
http://www.dft231.com/2006cont ract.htm

See page ten of the yellow copy. I earned my Masters in December 2005 and received the pay increase starting this school year.

And yes Suburban teachers typically earn more.
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Yelloweyes
Member
Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 140
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 1:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Taken from the DFT contract:
7. SUPER STEPS

a. Four (4) additional steps, up to $3,000 per step, beyond the current maximum of Step 10 or 11 will be granted according to criteria determined by the School District of the City of Detroit which will include, but not be limited to the following: Advancement beyond Step 10 or 11 will occur after at least three (3) years of satisfactory performance at Step 10 or 11 and at least three (3) years of satisfactory performance up to the fourth step in this section.

Participation in professional development activities as designed jointly by the Union and the School District of the City of Detroit. Minimum of 21 hours towards advanced degree in subject area of certification in area currently teaching. The Union and the District will agree on the defined subject areas for which the hours will be earned (e.g. elementary subjects).

Meets attendance criteria according to the School District of the City of Detroit Attendance Standard (96%).

Designed certification programs through national professional organizations (such as the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards) or certification programs with universities in specific subject areas.

Not taken form contract:
4 additional steps @$3000 = $12,000
In addition to the 70G's a teacher has the POTENTIAL of earning about $82,000 with DPS.

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