French777 Member Username: French777
Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 6:45 am: | |
wasn't there plans to build a cable car across the river. Is it because of new security issues. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 1574 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:35 am: | |
quote:wasn't there plans to build a cable car across the river Might have been somebody's idea on here, but I don't think it was ever planned for real. |
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster
Post Number: 2065 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:39 am: | |
Au contraire! http://www.freedomgondola.com/ |
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 1019 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:18 am: | |
I thought that this idea was more of a joke, but these people seem pretty serious. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 856 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:20 am: | |
This idea goes back to the mid-1960's when a similar plan was floated but never materialized. Looking at that web site, it appears that not much has happened lately. My guess is that border security has become a major obstacle in addition to getting the necessary piece of prime real estate required for each of the terminals. |
Rampartstreetnorth Member Username: Rampartstreetnorth
Post Number: 49 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:32 am: | |
A similar gondola system was built across the Mississippi River for the New Orleans World's Fair in 1984. It tended to get stuck and leave passengers dangling in the air for hours at a time, although I understand that when that happened it gave a great view (and occasionally a strong whiff) of the smokestacks of ships passing by beneath. Once when I rode it there were a bunch of drunks on board who thought it would be funny to make the car swing back and forth crazily by swaying from one side to the other in unison. Fortunately...it turned out that it was possible to actually slide the door open a few inches in mid flight, possibly to facilitate a backup (no pun intended) bathroom system for those times it got stuck. This created at least the possibility in the drunks' minds that if they continued their rowdy behavior the rest of the passengers were going to throw them overboard, so they quit. But all that was in Louisiana, so of course nothing like that could happen here. (Message edited by rampartstreetnorth on May 17, 2007) (Message edited by rampartstreetnorth on May 17, 2007) |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 61 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:51 am: | |
my guess is the whole "must have a passport" idea will kill this. |
Pete Member Username: Pete
Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:10 am: | |
Hey Rampartstreetnorth, the infrastructure that these guys bought for this system are from the New Orleans World's Fair. Mainly the piers, I believe. The cars were all going to be new. They had a scale model and an example of a full size car on display in the Renaissance Center a couple of years ago. The main obstacle was NOT security. Initially, it was the lottery commissioner of Ontario who controlled casino owned land that was needed for a station. Then, after nothing happened for awhile, George Jackson and the DEGC said they weren't going to back the idea. By the way, this had to be one of my favorite Detroit crackpot ideas of all-time. I wish it came to fruition. |
Rampartstreetnorth Member Username: Rampartstreetnorth
Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:30 am: | |
After my experience in New Orleans, my thought is that if there isn't a very good reason to ride a gondola (like a lazy way of getting to the top of a very steep mountain) then better not to do it. |
Rfban Member Username: Rfban
Post Number: 76 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:44 am: | |
I always thought it would be nice for pedestrians to be able to get to canada though. |
Rampartstreetnorth Member Username: Rampartstreetnorth
Post Number: 51 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
That would turn Canada into just another pedestrian experience. Rfban wrote; "I always thought it would be nice for pedestrians to be able to get to canada though." |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 381 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:40 am: | |
Pedestrians can go to Canada in two places in St. Clair County. There is a car ferry in Algonac and another in Marine City. You have to consider, with regard to a gondola between Detroit and Windsor, that neither of the cities it would connect are particularly friendly places to be if you don't have a car. |
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger
Post Number: 264 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 12:09 pm: | |
quote:You have to consider, with regard to a gondola between Detroit and Windsor, that neither of the cities it would connect are particularly friendly places to be if you don't have a car. That's likely to change when we start paying $10.00 a gallon for gas. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 5324 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 12:23 pm: | |
Long ago, jjaba invoked Skipper's Rules. In Detroit, don't believe anything until you see it being built. jjaba, Westsider. |
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 140 Registered: 05-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 12:23 pm: | |
Another example of another interesting idea that could make Detroit unique (in a good way) that dies by the wayside. A lot of talk and no action. |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1686 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 1:06 pm: | |
quote:By the way, this had to be one of my favorite Detroit crackpot ideas of all-time. I wish it came to fruition. But unlike most of the crackpot ideas discussed on this forum (turning Belle Isle into Cedar Point, ceding Belle Isle to Canada, etc), this idea is actually a good one.
quote:You have to consider, with regard to a gondola between Detroit and Windsor, that neither of the cities it would connect are particularly friendly places to be if you don't have a car. But that's the whole point, to encourage and foster pedestrian activity in both downtowns. The gondola could help that quite a bit, actually. I wouldn't say Windsor is all that pedestrian-unfriendly, either. Detroit still has a ways to go but its CBD is making progress in that direction. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4332 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 3:13 pm: | |
I think that one of the reasons the idea died is that the Canadian terminus of the Gondola was going to be Casino Windsor. So Detroit Casino's probably lobbied Detroit city officials to oppose it. |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 541 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 3:28 pm: | |
who said it died? |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4334 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 3:46 pm: | |
Lets see the thread has most dates of 2000 and 2001, including quotes from Mayor Archer. Let's see we're now in Kilpatrick's 2nd term... and still no Freedom Gondola!! 6 years and still no gondola?? I think it's died a quiet slow death... |
Rfban Member Username: Rfban
Post Number: 78 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 4:10 pm: | |
I still think it would be great to be able to walk to Canada. It would make the region more of a destination. |
Rfban Member Username: Rfban
Post Number: 79 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 4:13 pm: | |
Oh, it's Definitely dead. |
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa
Post Number: 838 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 5:00 pm: | |
Discussions of the gondola ultimately lead to discussions of a Detroit-Windsor passenger ferry. I could see a ferry replacing the tunnel bus -- especially during special events in downtown Detroit (there may need to be connecting bus shuttles to the JLA, Ford Field, Comerica, etc.). |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 5327 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 5:36 pm: | |
Perish the thought of a crowd of teen-aged boys coming back to Detroit on the Gondola from Windsor titty bars. jjaba waits for the next departure. jjaba on the Dexter bus. |
Eric Member Username: Eric
Post Number: 826 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 6:10 pm: | |
quote:But unlike most of the crackpot ideas discussed on this forum (turning Belle Isle into Cedar Point, ceding Belle Isle to Canada, etc), this idea is actually a good one. I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza. IMO it's almost as bad as Ficano's idea to connect the RenCen to Cobo with a skywalk
quote:But that's the whole point, to encourage and foster pedestrian activity in both downtowns. The gondola could help that quite a bit, actually. I wouldn't say Windsor is all that pedestrian-unfriendly, either. Detroit still has a ways to go but its CBD is making progress in that direction. A pedestrian friendly connection is needed between the downtowns ,but I'd much rather see it done through a ferry. It'd make prefect usage of the Port Authority terminal better than waiting around for occasional cruise ship |
Russix Member Username: Russix
Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:35 pm: | |
the MART in New Orleans was demolished in 1994, sparing it from a fate of being demolished 11 years later. I remember seeing it and wondering why it wasn't working. The red steel brings reminders of old Washington Blvd/Trolley plaza and its practical solution for transit. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 1578 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:29 pm: | |
quote:I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza. Yeah, sounds like an eyesore to me too. A ferry is a good idea though. |
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger
Post Number: 265 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:06 pm: | |
quote:“I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza” Remember, the people of Paris thought the Eiffel Tower was a “blight on their city” when it was first built. But seriously, I don’t much care for the design or location currently being proposed, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea. Perhaps a tower could be built as part of the redevelopment of the Ford Auditorium site. That way they could use the existing tunnel customs plaza. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 382 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:42 pm: | |
There is nothing currently being proposed, is there? If so, where is the information? There was something proposed seven or eight years ago but I doubt that is any longer being seriously considered. |
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger
Post Number: 266 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 11:08 pm: | |
In Detroit seven or eight years is current. They’ve been working on the Riverwalk for more than 30 years and there were numerous announcements and false starts associated with the Book/Cadillac project over the years. My point is that it’s not a bad idea. It just needs the details reworked. (Message edited by Ramcharger on May 18, 2007) |
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa
Post Number: 839 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 9:13 am: | |
If a gondola was to be developed, it would make sense to place the Detroit terminus near a peoplemover station so that people arriving from Windsor could hop on the peoplemover to get to sports events, etc. (during inclement weather). I think there was a proposal to place the Windsor terminus on the top of the Chrysler Canada HQ parking garage. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 5886 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
We don't need a car car! Look at the national unsecurity issues first. Terrorists can plot to cut the cable car or blow it up. |
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger
Post Number: 267 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 2:06 pm: | |
Why would terrorists waste their efforts and resources on something so insignificant? It sounds like you’ve been drinking the Bush Kool-Aid. (Message edited by Ramcharger on May 18, 2007) |
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa
Post Number: 841 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 3:06 pm: | |
Danny has been accused of drinking various forms of Kool-Aid.... |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4339 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 5:20 pm: | |
... my bets are on a closed head injury... |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1696 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 6:46 pm: | |
quote:"But unlike most of the crackpot ideas discussed on this forum (turning Belle Isle into Cedar Point, ceding Belle Isle to Canada, etc), this idea is actually a good one." I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza. IMO it's almost as bad as Ficano's idea to connect the RenCen to Cobo with a skywalk. Eh. It'd be no more an eyesore than something like the Ambassador Bridge, IMO. The support tower is not nearly as tall as the RenCen and other buildings along Jefferson, so it wouldn't alter the skyline *that* much. Yeah, the support cabling might not be that attractive but according to the picture, it would be on one side of Hart Plaza (the west side), so I don't think it would have a drastic impact. Contrast that with the Ficano skywalk cutting all the way across Hart Plaza and blocking the river view (for little benefit), which I agree would be a disaster. My hunch is that the real reason the gondola probably won't happen is that the owner/promoter is underestimating or downplaying the costs of installation or operation, and the city is leery of getting stuck with the extra costs or with a half-finished project, which is entirely reasonable. |
Jyogi Member Username: Jyogi
Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 6:46 pm: | |
Sorry but it wont happen. My family along with a Attorney in Detroit, a Detroit City Planner and a couple other investors were going to open the "Detroit Windsor Ferry" We even had two docks and the barge but there were just too many expenses due to having customs on both sides of the border at both stations. This was pre 9-11 so if anything it would only be harder now. You are dealing with two cities, two countries and two customs offices, talk about headaches!!!! It really is a shame as something like that would be nice to have but here in MI it would only get used a couple mths a year due to the weather then you also have the issue of height. They cables would have to be VERY high in order to not get in the way of any ships which come through (including the really old Tall Ships which they have the festival for yearly.) I do still have quite a bit of the items we had made up which were going to be sold in the gift shop if anyone is looking for something unique... |