Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Street lockdowns proposed for Baltimore Previous Next
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 5027
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I apologize in advance if the Lowell deems this is not the correct section to start this thread, but as it deals with similar concerns about Detroit, I felt this was was the correct place to post it.

quote:

BALTIMORE - A city council leader, alarmed by Baltimore's rising homicide rate, wants to give the mayor the power to put troubled neighborhoods under virtual lockdown.

"Desperate measures are needed when we're in desperate situations," City Council Vice President Robert W. Curran told The (Baltimore) Sun. He said he would introduce the legislation next week.

Under Curran's plan, the mayor could declare "public safety act zones," which would allow police to close liquor stores and bars, limit the number of people on city sidewalks, and halt traffic during two-week intervals.

Police would be encouraged to aggressively stop and frisk individuals in those zones to search for weapons and drugs.



more:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 70517/ap_on_re_us/lockdown_zon es_1

Personally I think measures such as this have too much potential for abuses (For those of you who don't remember STRESS}, but I'll leave it to you to decide.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 874
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it works then what is the problem. Would you rather have dead or abused people?
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 5028
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dead by who? Abused by who?

The police or the thugs?

Just a question that might be pondered.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2185
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"papers, please"
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 877
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dead by the people in the neighborhood. Abused potentially by the cops. 108 is a lot and summer isn't even here yet. How many does Detroit have so far?
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2187
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How does this differ from martial law?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 797
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 10:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"If it works then what is the problem. Would you rather have dead or abused people?"

Wow.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1240
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 10:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"How does this differ from martial law?"

The executive body of a government is usually allowed to declare martial law in cases of emergency or when the public safety requires it...the problem is, people have gotten so used to the crap that goes on in certain neighborhoods that they no longer consider it an emergency or a immediate threat to the public safety...the just see it as business as usual...

on the one hand, I'd say residents of many of these violent areas have have demonstrated that they lack the responsibility to live freely without government interference...on the other hand, if animals want to go around killing themselves, why not just let them? They probably don't contribute anything to society anyhow.


(Message edited by thejesus on May 18, 2007)
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 269
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 10:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I were living in one of those neighborhoods I would probably welcome this effort. AS a side note, anyone here watch "the wire"?
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4148
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 10:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'animals' huh...
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 1716
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 10:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish some of the younger members of the forum would do a little research into the history of the aforementioned "STRESS" police unit in the city. No disrespect for age, I mean some of us remember stringent police lockdowns and what happened to the city as a result.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 272
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never been in any similar situation. So take what I say with a grain of salt. I just imagine if I were afraid of being killed, or having family members killed I would go along with it.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 799
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"'animals' huh..."

This isn't the first time he's used that terminology either. Yet to call him out on the racial overtones of that comment would be counterproductive!
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Carolcb
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Username: Carolcb

Post Number: 739
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sarkozy, "animals" - he was just elected.
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Gildas
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Username: Gildas

Post Number: 962
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The difference is that during martial law, the military takes over and implements military rules and enforcement.

No matter how "hard" the police act it, by definition can not be martial law. BIG DIFFERENCE.
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Dexterpointing
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Username: Dexterpointing

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if thats what it takes to nip crime in the butt before it goes way out of whack, then by all means,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 906
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gildas: Who cares, other than law mavens?

Besides, when we think of martial law, we often don't think of military rule right away, we think of intrusive police agencies that are civilian, but paramilitarized. The KGB in Soviet Russia, the Gestapo in Nazi Germany, etc.

Besides, what does it matter whether the police terrorize you and control your life, or the army terrorizes you and controls your life? Sounds like Hobson's Choice to me.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1242
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DS and Iheartthed:

You guys have that race card shoved so far up your asses that you're reading things in my comments that aren't even there...no one is even talking about race here...we're talking about martial law and homicide rates

why don't you two get the hell out of here and go learn a valuable skill or something and stop trying to turn every normal conversation into a god damn race war since that appears to be all you guys know how to do...

unf*ckingbelievable
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1243
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"No matter how "hard" the police act it, by definition can not be martial law. BIG DIFFERENCE."

As long as they suspend habeas corpus, it's effectively the same thing as martial law...
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Dexterpointing
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Username: Dexterpointing

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lolol or they might their account terminated for calling them out on their racist bs because it appears that the administrators of this forum are far lefties who have guilt lololol

oh my bad, they would terminate you because you are defending yourself against their race card racism and ideals and the administrators always side with them.

(Message edited by dexterpointing on May 18, 2007)
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 800
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>Dexterpointing

Do you text here from your cell phone?

I could barely understand what the hell you were trying to say.

(Message edited by iheartthed on May 18, 2007)
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Dexterpointing
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Username: Dexterpointing

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

point is stop starting racist crap. The guy never mentioned a "race or ethnicity" regarding the problem.

geez
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Mpow
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Username: Mpow

Post Number: 253
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of attacking problems with desperate last resort measures with more rules and policing, our nation instead must focus on why we are where we are in the first place. This includes combating poverty through education, skill centers, decriminalization of drugs, smart neighborhood investment and small business loans and mostly treating each other with understanding and respect, poor, rich, black, white and brown. We are all in this together and pointing fingers gets old man.

Do I really need to post this? The way we all can start is to start by examining are own bias thoughts and smooth out our hearts a little. Detroit is a hard place to be and it is frustrating, anger starts to breed hate and before you know it you are part of the problem. I had to back pedal myself many times facing my own hate. It is always in the darker corners of the soul, waiting to spread itself.
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 9426
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^Finally a post that makes sense.^^^

I am glad you still post once in a while Mpow.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5876
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Baltimore = Baghdad!

If the mayor wants a curfew for his broken down city so be it.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 279
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have only been in Baltimore a few times. But Where I went and what I saw showed a city in a really bad condition.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5879
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some folks in Baltimore suburbs blame black-folks for their crimes. Some blame the white-folks block busting their ghettohoods. Others blame city corruption. If those folks in Baltimore continue to stay with the Devil's stronghold, they would never escape into God's grace.
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Bumble
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Username: Bumble

Post Number: 97
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it pronounced, "mar't-al" or "mar'shul"?
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Iseries840
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Username: Iseries840

Post Number: 432
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I blame all of this on Marlo Stansfield. None of this would have happened if his people did not put all those bodies in the abandoned rowhouses. Hopefully, Major crimes will put them all away.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2338
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That shit has been tried ad-nauseum mpow; th results are evident.

ORF, exactly what happened to the city when SRESS was active? Near as I remember assholes out to rob people picked police decoys and some got killed in the process.....who fucking cares?

With the condition Detroit is in and how crime has practically destroyed the city how can anyone come up with the same lame shit?
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5883
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marlo Stansfield putting bodies in those row homes EEEYYYUUU!!! He's crazy like a fox!
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5884
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Citylover,

Maybe Detroit needs to bring back STRESS! That way crime will be reduced.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 2487
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We all know that to reduce crime, you need to open all kinds of Disney stuff in the middle of the city.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9210
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote{We all know that to reduce crime, you need to open all kinds of Disney stuff in the middle of the city.}

If all the disney stuff creates jobs it will help in reducing crime in the long run.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1244
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

can someone please fill me in on the details of "STRESS"?

EDIT: Disregard...I found it

(Message edited by thejesus on May 18, 2007)
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 907
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 2:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard once that guys coming back from the 'nam could get jobs on Detroit's elite police unit pretty easily. Basically, they were above the law. You know what they say about absolute power corrupting absolutely, well ...
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 280
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 2:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

marshul bumble
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99gprix
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Username: 99gprix

Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

STRESS
Stop The Robberies, Enjoy Safe Streets.

Basically, as I know it, if you looked at the cops wrong, they would beat the hell outta you, or kill you. They were really bad to the bone cops, who didn't take grief from anyone.

Google is your friend! :-)
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 310
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 4:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well---as a Baltimoron and former Detroiter; I need to clear up a few misconceptions. To Michigan: Baltimore has a crime-problem, that is obvious and we also have areas that would best be described as "urban-blight". But, I can safely say the vast majority of the city is walkable and safe and used by all races. We have a very active city especially compared to Detroit. We also have many viable safe neighborhoods without a crime-problem. I happen to live in one and there are many, many more. So, I regret that your experience was not good while visiting.
And in general, I applaud Mr. Curran for heightening this issue. We have a major drug-problem much of it being contributed by suburbanites and city-folk who have addictions. There is a war occuring right now in our city and it is a war over territory: who is allowed to sell and where they are allowed to sell. It is going to require immediate attention and Mr. Curran is but one person who recognizes this need and wants to combat it. The police are targeting neighborhoods where people no longer feel safe to walk because of these drug wars. In times of crisis, desperate measures may be needed. In terms of that homicide rate of over 100 already, I would venture to say that 90 or more are directly or indirectly involved in this drug war. Many sources tell me that the main issue is that there are actually less customers buying so folks are entering other territory to sell. And... that causes friction.
To Mpow---I agree, long-term solutions are needed but in the mean-time, the message of non-tolerance has to be understood.
One other important note, Baltimore does not have huge tracks of vacant land. We have a very high-density city. So, if there is a guy selling drugs on the corner, it effects many, many households---most of which are owned or rented by people who work and want a safe neighborhood. If Mr. Curran didn't think the people would be up for it, he would not have suggested it. Believe me, many people want the drug-wars to at least be minimalized.
Finally, I have to stress that although this problem is occuring in some neighborhoods in the city, many of the "buyers" are suburbanites driving in to make a quick purchase and therefore contributing to the problem. And... many of those suburbanites happen to be Caucasian. They are actually contributing to the black on black crime. One sad note is that many folks believe that some police may actually be suppliers and part of the problem which is another reason Mr. Curran wanted to promote this plan.
I apologize for the lengthy response but I hope I clarified it a bit from a local perspective.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1444
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it turf war over drugs causing this big rise in gun violence? I read something on CNN yesterday about Philadelphia being way up. Now it sounds like Baltimore too. Is this mostly (so far) an East Coast thing? East Coast gangs or what?

Beyond that, I'm not so sure shutting down sections of the city is really a good idea. You start punishing/restriction good people who have never done anything wrong, but just happen to live/work/need to be in a certain area. Plus, if certain sections of the city get "locked down" imagine how bad that looks and how many people will run the other direction for their housing, business, or to spend money. Think City of Detroit after 1967 when the entire city was sorta "locked down". I looks bad. And people ran like hell.

Some solutions: Education & skill training. Free birth control to any woman who wants it. Increase police force with the ability to step up enforcement instead of fighting crime with one hand tied behind their back. And most importantly: legalize drugs. I bet a huge amount of this problem all across the country is related to drugs. Start regulating, taxing, gov't only distribution locations, and watch this dissolve. I almost guarantee drug turf wars is behind all this.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 881
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 7:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Marlo is crazy, I liked the Barksdales better at least they were civil. Here is to hoping Marlo, Snoop, Chris, and their new protege get whats coming to them.
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerome---Yes--it is a turf war---simply said. My neighborhood has been free of this issue although we do have users and sellers near us. For some reason, it has remained relatively peaceful, until two weeks ago. At that time, a gang from another neighborhood was upset about a fellow who was selling in their neighborhood. They came over here (about 2 dozen) and shot up a corner where the fellow was hanging out. Luckily, he survived after some medical care. It is not playtime. And... it is not just Baltimore.
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 312
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the lighter side. For all the Detroiters out there, I just got home from a Buckwheat Zydeco free concert in the neighborhood. The intro band had finished and they were setting up, played music---the Parliament/Funkadelic. There was a little white girl dancing and singing to the music in front of the stage. She knew all of the words to the Parliament song. Her dad was standing by her while she was dancing and I walked up to him and asked him how she could possibly know the words from that song. He looked at me and smiled. "We used to live in Detroit." Very cool evening.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2195
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 11:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We © Detroit.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 5039
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 12:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Makes life worth living to experience those vignettes.
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 313
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 10:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor--"Wire"--excellent show and agreed
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Tayshaun22
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Username: Tayshaun22

Post Number: 367
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 2:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just hire Omar... he'll clean it up in no time.

Either that or open up HAMSTERDAM.
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Queensfinest
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Username: Queensfinest

Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 5:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have lived in NYC and Detroit my entire life.

I have been to Baltimore 8 times in the past 10 years.

There is no comparison between Baltimore an DET.

Baltimore, the city, contains high density neighborhoods that are completely %^cked. All of these neighborhoods are similar to the high density rowhouse areas of philly & DC that are being gentrified.

Every time I'm down there I see blocks and blocks being taken over by white "urban Pioneers"

These areas don't exist in DET. The housing stock is not there. The Market is not there. DET does not have the economic climate that attracts this type of development.

Please stop comparing Detroit to east coast cities because it's not in a place that is desirable to hundreds of thousands of people. Baltimore, no matter how depressed you think it is, is in the right place...

The last affordable place on the east coast. Baltmore is the Philly of 10 yrs ago.

DC, NYC, Boston, all of these places...

For those of you in in metro Detroit who don't get out often; Your 120,000 house in Royal Oak is worth 6 to 700,000 anywhere else in the country.

That's all.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 284
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 8:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

QF- It is hard to overstate the effect that thedense population of the DC to Boston Corridor has on everything here. Add to this the Brain drain that has been occurring and continues to occur from the central US to the coasts, and Detroit has a tough row to hoe. It is not Alone. Outside of Chicago, and maybe the Twin Cities or Milwaukee, it seems all mid-western cities are hurting.
It is hard for people from Detroit to really look at Detroit's situation because they love the city. Right now, Detroit can not compete on a level playing field with the one pre-emminent mid-western city, Chicago. Chicago is waxing while Detroit wanes so trying to fight them head to head is a waste of resources. Every city is trying to draw convention business and tourism to their town. So it will be tough for Detroit to differentiate itself enough to stand out from the very large crowd.
I have already put some radical ideas on this board about what I think it would take to jump start population growth in the D. Especially with young "pioneer" types. With population growth comes the rest.

Mayor- When I asked earlier I thought you might watch that. I love it. Marlo is a very, very, very bad bad bad dude. That guy is a no-soul. I do hope he gets his. Hardest part about watching that show for me is seeing the kids. I know it is just a show but I get attached to those kids and I'm always hoping they'll get out somehow. But not last season!

(Message edited by michigan on May 20, 2007)

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