  Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 702 Registered: 07-2005 |
From Forbes: Detroit Death Pool Jack Brynaur, QuiteContrarian.com 05.23.07, 11:00 AM ET Anyone who has spent any time in Detroit recently will tell you it is by all apparent indications a dying city. Crumbling buildings, widespread decay and a population in flight make for a depressing landscape. Detroit's fortunes have always been tied intimately to the fortunes of the U.S. auto industry. So it's hardly surprising that a look at Ford's and General Motors' balance sheets will show just as much decay and devastation as a trip through Detroit's worst slums. The only real question is, which automaker will declare bankruptcy first? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 463 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wait a minute... So decay in Detroit is a new thing spurred by the decline of the U.S. auto industry? So it has NOTHING to do with the problems of the 60's and white flight and racial issues whatsoever huh? Who is this guy? Is he from here? | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 703 Registered: 07-2005 |
Jack Brynaur has over 15 years of investing experience, and is a practicing attorney specializing in intellectual property. In addition to Seeking Alpha, his financial commentary has been featured by Forbes, Yahoo Finance, the Huffington Post, and many other financial and academic sites. He provides consulting and legal advice for start-ups, charitable organizations and Fortune 500 companies, but his greatest passion is helping individuals break free from the grind to achieve financial independence. Visit his site: QuiteContrarian.com for further info. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3192 Registered: 10-2004 |
I posted the entire article yesterday in the non-Detroit section due to its being primarily about which of GM or Ford will win the race to bankruptcy. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1501 Registered: 11-2003 |
Because GM or Ford entering bankruptcy has nothing to do with Detroit. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1125 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'd say Ford is the obvious choice. They are closer to the bottom all ready, have larger losses, and less assets to offset the losses. It's too bad, I'll miss the Mustang. All that many more cars for the orphan car shows of the future I guess. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3194 Registered: 10-2004 |
Remnants of the better Ford products will probably survive any bankruptcy when their rights and manufacturing facilities are purchased in bankruptcy court. One item to note is that the Ford family appears to be cashing in their chips while they still have any left. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1833 Registered: 12-2003 |
I would agree with Ford as well, with costs at $30 an hour more per employee and rising to $40+ bankruptcy is no longer a nightmare. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 281 Registered: 02-2007 |
Yes they make it sound like 10 years ago, every property in Detroit was fully occupied with working families, and a fresh coat of paint on the outside. And that when the automobile circus pulled out of town, tumbleweeds started to roll one day. Nonsense. A. White flight/separatism. B.An attitude of separatism from within Detroit that enhanced A. And, C. .. unlike other cities, an under-appreciation of great architecture and structures. None of these doom-writers ever lived there. They have no idea what kind of people they are dealing with, lol. For 10 damn years, all my friends would look at my Mac and go "Isn't Apple going out of business?" Well. They didn't | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1126 Registered: 08-2006 |
Let us hope so larry. If the axe falls though I think it would be proper if one of the speciality aftermarket guys like Roush, or Saleen took over production of the Stang. | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 126 Registered: 05-2006 |
wow, this is a breakthrough. he must be some sort of Nostradamus. | ||
Hochi Member Username: Hochi Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2003 |
I like how you say "I'll miss the Mustang"? That's really all you have to say about the prospect of Ford going out of business? I mean, really what you should be saying is "I'll miss my house and my car and I really hate living on the street". If Ford goes under, so does the automotive industry in America. You think Detroit is devastated now? Never mind me, I'm going to go back to wishing for the demise of the entire southeast part of Michigan. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 836 Registered: 04-2006 |
>For 10 damn years, all my friends would look at my Mac and go "Isn't Apple going out of business?" Tis true, but they sure had to do some soul searching to survive. I don't know if Detroit (automakers, but I guess the same applies for the region) has truly done that yet. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 903 Registered: 09-2006 |
There is a thread about this in the Non Detroit section. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 284 Registered: 02-2007 |
The world will be at war soon and Detroit will need to make the tanks and jeeps and airplanes. So Bush's hidden love for Detroit will finally show through. =) And employment will swell again. I'm sure of it. Just be patient. He was just holding out on us with his "big plan". He really does care about American Industry. Iheartthed, they are big, slow moving companies, so you may be right. But their back is so against the wall, they are doing some intense crash-development like Mac did to find their niche. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1127 Registered: 08-2006 |
"I'll miss my house and my car and I really hate living on the street". Nice try! but I got all my eggs out of that basket years ago. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 704 Registered: 07-2005 |
quote: My mistake Mayor. I neglected to look there before I started this thread as I thought a bankruptcy of a DETROIT automaker belonged in the DISCUSS DETROIT Forum. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1834 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Of course I do not see a Microsoft willing to pony up the dough to save a car company the way it did Apple. A. Crime, no matter how slice and dice it, Detroit's decline has more to do with uncontrolable crime then it does anything else. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 905 Registered: 09-2006 |
Oh naw, I dont really care Quozl. I was just letting people know if they wanted to check it out. I feel it is more appropriate in this section anyway since it deals directly with Detroit issues. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 990 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yes, Brynaur's paragraph marks him as clueless, opportunistic, or both. Deindustrialization was ONE of the things that started Detroit's decline. But it began with the closing 50 and more years ago of companies like Hudson, Packard, Briggs, etc., and the location of new Big 3 plants in the suburbs instead of Detroit. The Big 3 were growing complacent and lazy in the '50s, but their fiscal decline started basically in 1973 with the oil embargo, long after things started to go to hell in Detroit. The Big 3's decline and closing of Detroit, Hamtramck & Highland Park facilities speeded up the urban decay, but by no means was what started it. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 289 Registered: 02-2007 |
_sj_: "Of course I do not see a Microsoft willing to pony up the dough to save a car company the way it did Apple. " That dough isn't what saved Apple from the briny depths. A Lee Iaccoca / John Delorean brain for design and vision did. The Ipod did. Where are those new Deloreans in the design teams? Mustangs are a nice start, but we can make cars people want again, lol. That's not some insurmountable engineering challenge. It's just good taste and good vision. (Message edited by Larryinflorida on May 24, 2007) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 468 Registered: 10-2003 |
Get rid of the "design by committee" and "focus group" crap. No design looks good after it's been through the ringers of a bunch of people who have no education or training in design. You can start out with a Jaguar and end up with a jellybean Taurus. Have some balls, make cars your best designers are designing, and people will buy them. Cater to the lowest common denominator and you will have what the US companies were making from the late 80's through the early-mid 90's, boring jellybeans that offend nobody and interest nobody. | ||
Club_boss Member Username: Club_boss Post Number: 105 Registered: 12-2006 |
"Our recent article on Ford and GM raised more than a few hackles in Detroit. We'd like to clear the air on this — Our article was about Ford and GM, not Detroit. We had no intention of slamming the city. In fact, we believe that Detroit real estate is one of the best contrarian investments in America right now." http://www.quitecontrarian.com /detroit-urban-revival.html | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 470 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hmm. "Anyone who has spent any time in Detroit recently will tell you it is by all apparent indications a dying city. Crumbling buildings, widespread decay and a population in flight make for a depressing landscape." Nah, nah, they had NO intention of slamming the city! Now I have even less respect for them. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 83 Registered: 02-2004 |
Designers like Pininfarina? Ford makes great cars it's too bad I can't buy one here. BTW almost all available with TDCi. http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/all_cars/-/-/-/-/-/- http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/focuscoupecabriolet/-/-/-/-/-/- http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/mondeo/mdo_0504_body/mdo_0504_body_sttdci/-/-/3/750899# (Message edited by Rfban on May 25, 2007) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 471 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well Pininfarina did make some sweet Corvettes, as well as the Cadillac Allante, which I think is cool, though some may not. Beyond that, I'm not sure how they relate to the US auto industry. Ford and GM have plenty of good designers, but by the time their stuff is watered down by corporate focus group garbage, its just another "car". | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2220 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote:only the top selling car for a number of years | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 706 Registered: 07-2005 |
Ah, I think the poster is referring to the Jaguar resembling the Ford Taurus. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 473 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lilpup, that may be true, but I don't think it was it's wicked styling that made it a top seller. Personally I thought it looked like a catfish for far too long. | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 39 Registered: 04-2007 |
Totally agree about fords cars, look at some of the ones they sell in Australia! They look pretty nice. even the El Camino one. Too many people are still ignorant about american cars. They are JUST AS GOOD as any Toyota or honda. And they never fell that far behind. I have a 98 merc Tracer and never had anything wrong with it! | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 304 Registered: 02-2007 |
Johnlodge is spot-on. Committees dilute the vision. Jobs at Apple may be a benevolent dictator, but the company shows signs of a singular vision done well. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1835 Registered: 12-2003 |
The Ipod? With out Microsoft's cash in the 90s there is no company to develop the the Ipod because Apple would have been a thing of the past. Apple needed Microsoft and vice versa, who really needs to bailout a car company. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 306 Registered: 02-2007 |
And now Gates and Jobs caricatures mock each other in Apple ads, lol. Yeah yer right. That money floated them to the ipod stage. But they would be gone anyway now if not for those little ubiquitous pods. | ||
Detroiterwannabe Member Username: Detroiterwannabe Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2007 |
I think we all need to be more optimistic about the situation. I really really hope the big 3's can come back stronger in a near future. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 334 Registered: 02-2007 |
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05 /27/business/yourmoney/27every .html?_r=1&oref=slogin Ben Stein has a view similar to mine here on Deloreans and Iacoccas missing, lol. Thanks, lilpup. |
