Post Number: 41
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 11:58 am: || |
Has anyone here gone to the Electronic Music Festival this year? I for one didn't, for the first time!
they are charging $26 per person to get into that place! who can afford that and where is all that money going?
They don't pay the artists, there are a ton of vendors there, lots of people buying, and the city doesn't make a dime! The greed of some people, to turn this once prosperous festival into another example of Detroit style idocy...
I refuse to go until they get someone compitent enough to run the festival well and not line their own pockets!!!
Post Number: 130
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 12:15 pm: || |
Or at least a headliner that someone cares about. They had Mos Def a couple years ago, how about someone like Gorillaz? How do they expect to make a profit if no one goes? I'm only going because my roommate is performing.
Post Number: 98
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 12:44 pm: || |
oh shit yeah, if the gorillaz were playing I'd be there in a heartbeat.
I forgot your roommate did electronic music.
Post Number: 1366
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 2:20 pm: || |
walking by the crowd looked A LOT thinner than previous years
Post Number: 273
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 2:22 pm: || |
Or at least a headliner that someone cares about.
It's obvious that neither of you have looked at the lineup or know anything about electronic music then.
Bad Boy Bill
Nothing left to say...
(Message edited by spidergirl on May 27, 2007)
Post Number: 1367
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 2:24 pm: || |
to quote Phil Hartman playing Frank Sinatra on SNL
"Neva heard of 'em....next!"
Post Number: 131
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 2:42 pm: || |
Speaking as a person that isn't a big fan of electronic music, I've heard of Richie Hawtin,
Juan Atkins, Bad Boy Bill, and Jeff Mills. I respect them for all they've accomplished in their careers, but I just don't find straight techno to be all that great. I go for the atmosphere, if they don't cater to the folks that are in my same boat, I don't see this festival lasting much longer. Plus, Bad Boy Bill blows.
Post Number: 1105
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:25 pm: || |
While those are big names in the context of that particular genre, and would not be considered expensive at $26 at a club, the whole point of a daytime festival in a city park should be to introduce joe public to this art form (which understandably has limited appeal). Thus, charging that much to hang at Hart Plaza to hear some beats pretty much defeats the purpose of having such a 'festival' outside of their native club environment. It would be better to relegate the performances to downtown clubs that can charge whatever for entry and just leave Hart Plaza free to the general public like it should always be. My $.02 anyway.
Post Number: 91
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 7:30 pm: || |
I believe that the charge this year is due to the lack of a major sponsor. It costs a ton of money to put on a festival of that magnitude without major corporate sponsors. And all of that aside the $26 is cheap. Im about to buy tickets to Lollapalooza which is held at Grant Park in Chicago. That festival is also 3 days and it will cost me $200 for a ticket. Im sure the city gets revenue for the use of Hart plaza not to mention the local bars and clubs get huge boosts for after parties. I dont think you can get a hotel room in the city this weekend either.
Post Number: 838
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 10:29 pm: || |
I didn't go in but the crowds looked VERY thin when I drove past. Even while other areas of downtown were pretty lively.
Post Number: 208
|Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 11:58 pm: || |
I don't think you understand that this festival has always run in the red and has often been on the verge of ending year after year. In my opinion, Paxahau got a lot right in their second year of operation. They streamlined a lot of things, but improved the line-up, sound and lighting systems. Plus, we knew the line-up more than a week in advance this time around.
Why are you so negative about something you obviously have no interest in going to anyways? Who can afford that? Are you of drinking age? $26 is nothing for a night out. Imagine paying $26 for a concert...but instead you have access to four stages, all afternoon, with numerous artists. If it's a style of music you enjoy (like I do), it's worth every penny.
How would I know? I just got home from spending all afternoon there. I will be going back tomorrow night as well. Crowds looked just as healthy as they did last year, and the music was solid. Besides buying a $45 weekend pass, I bought a $20 T-shirt and $20 worth of drinks.
I don't think you comprehend the cost of setting up such an event. This year the sound system was amazing; it completely blew away the past years' in both volume and quality.
In my opinion, Bad Boy Bill was the highlight of the afternoon/evening, and really worked the crowd. The tent he was performing in was packed and the energy was strong. Totally surpassed expectations.
Basically, I think it's plain stupid that so many of you are critical of an event that you have no interest in. It attracts crowds from around country and the world to Detroit. Hotel rooms are booked, and lots of local clubs make a lot of money on the after-parties.
Post Number: 209
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 12:02 am: || |
Correction, I see that you've gone in past years. So, you have some interest in the music.
Still, I think it's absurd that $26/day or $15/day (for the weekend pass) is the only thing preventing you from attending.
Post Number: 489
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 12:03 am: || |
attendance was only 9,100 for Saturday..... Last year, the crowds averaged about 15,000 daily. Hopefully it picked up today, and tomorrow will be busier
Post Number: 5211
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 12:13 am: || |
Like with any form of entertainment, our dollars get stretched mighty thin nowadays. Just ask the Red Wings or the Pistons who were and are in the Playoffs- their numbers suffered too. I think just because numbers are going to be down isn't an indicator of how good the entertainment is, but is more reflective of the tough times that we're all enduring.
Post Number: 42
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 3:18 pm: || |
It seems like if they can run the jazz festival for free they could make the MUCH bigger techno festival for free.
another problem is the constant change of the person who runs it. Almost every year now it's someone new, making last years mistakes. They need someone who's gonna stick with it and make it work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D etroit_Electronic_Music_Festiv al
Post Number: 780
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 3:31 pm: || |
Kslice please....have you no reason? I totally disagree with your posts in this thread.
The free festival and people trying to run it for free is what kept the leaders changing. Everyone went down hard when they took on the festival. The lack of city funding and the lack of a major sponsor was the true demise to the festival being free.
And you have to be kidding me about the $26 charge! You said it yourself, the MUCH bigger techno fest and you want it for free still!? Yeah with all of the huge speaker rigs, stages and the many flights trying to get the artists in. I'm not sure the artist compensation but I am pretty sure they don't buy their own plane ticket.
This is Paxahau's second year and they are doing a great job. Even if the numbers prove to be down a little this year it was still a success. And to doubt Paxahau's leadership with really anything regarding the festival is somewhat follish. They are the true professionals this festival needed.
BTW those of you that want Gorillaz etc. expect ticket prices to go way up! Those artists don't exactly play for free.
(Message edited by adamjab19 on May 28, 2007)
(Message edited by adamjab19 on May 28, 2007)
Post Number: 43
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 4:03 pm: || |
This is how I see it...
You charge me $26 at the door, I'm gonna walk right past all the expensive shirts and vendors trying to get me to buy stuff. I just payed to get into the place and i dont feel like breaking the bank. Vendors lose money since I spent it all at the door and they dont come back.
You make it free, I buy a t-shirt, hoody, some demo CD's or whatever else they're selling. Vendors are happy and will be willing to pay more to set up shop next year.
The music isn't the money maker, It's the draw. Vendors coming and T-shirt sales make money. People see music as something that should be free today. But if you can get them to buy one Movement t-shirt for $30 them boom, there's your ticket money and people think they got in for free.
I may be wrong (I think not), but i will argue no more...
Post Number: 781
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 4:10 pm: || |
Vendors must be doing ok. I have seen the same ones since around 2002...
Post Number: 49
|Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 7:50 pm: || |
Back in the day, some of us used to pay $25 just to get into a good party for one night, and the headliners were not that big. God, I can't believe I used to pay that much to see bad shows like DJ Godfather, Terrance Parker, and the rest of the booty gurus. Despite the fact I have moved on in my tastes ( and despise candy ravers), $26 is really not that bad.
I pay more for concert tickets if I really want to see a show. Large crowds of roving people on drugs have lost their appeal.
I would pay that to see the Concert of Colors in Chene Park again.
Post Number: 48
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:49 am: || |
Although I didn't attend the festival this year, from what I've herd it was a success. The attendance could have been down Saturday and Sunday due to the cool weather. If I remember correctly, it was warmer last year.
A lot of Clubs downtown charge $20 for those that are of the age 18 - 20 to enter their club, and they also charge $20 for those that arrive at a club after 11pm... people pay and they only have < 4 hours to party. Therefore $26 all day isn't that bad if you listen to Techno.
I'm sure charging keeps a lot of rift raft from Hart Plaza also. Techno is a genre usually catered to the young (the ones who tend to fight the most), and the jazz fest usually caters to the mature (the ones who usually don't fight). So again, charging $26 really isn't a bad or expensive thing.
Post Number: 1370
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:59 am: || |
i say we start DAMF, Detroit acoustic music festival.
Post Number: 5241
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 2:03 am: || |
There's actually a pretty decent idea there Chitaku. Why not?
Post Number: 1371
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 3:27 am: || |
Im not to informed on what it takes to put something together like that. Where would be a good location, Hart Plaza? Belle Isle? I have the whole thing in mind, including local rock bands doing acoustic sets. I wonder who would be down to jam for free. I need to do my research I think.
Post Number: 9284
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 4:18 am: || |
The difference turns out to be a logical function.
'No cover charge' is by design an open funnel, gathering NEW bodies wandering into an open forum discovering something new that they may want to know more of or experience additionally.
As stated very well by Kslice, it allows a freer-spending stance by the concert-goer...they are more likely to spend since they weren't slapped at the door.
Charging cover serves to lock OUT those on the fence...there is NO greater way to insure that those who are NOT certain of a performer (or list of 'em) will stay away and NOT risk spending money up front without guarantee of satisfaction. There seems no greater way to kill the growth of a genre.
There seems NO greater way to kill a genre.
Group like this should be able to work on the honor model, where those who are enamored by a performance could be enticed to fill a hat or two, or drop in a bucket on the way out...but even THEN they should be able to simply buy a CD or DVD of the exact performance and 'pay' for the whole thing that way. (or buy other CDs and DVDs from the performers, I remember that CD stand for Ani DiFranco at the Concert of Colors being crazily busy, I remember it each time I play her discs I bought at that FREE show!)
I just know that the INSTANT they caged the whole area, spiritually it took a dark dive...Hart Plaza felt 'wrong' behind bars like that. It was doomed before they even OPENED their gates.
Post Number: 44
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 7:36 am: || |
Well Said Gannon.
Probably better said than mine
Post Number: 1338
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 7:49 am: || |
Saturday it was raining...maybe that had something to do with attendance.
While I've been a negative nancy before on here, particularly about paying cover at bars in the City, I didn't see a problem with paying for this event.
Wazootyman this is the nature of this forum, and this region. To get all "Negative-nancy" about, well, everything!
If we announced a cure for cancer on this forum there would be someone within the first 5 or 6 posts complaining about some aspect of it.
Post Number: 341
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 8:36 am: || |
After 3 years of loosing money, no cover means no party, plain and simple.
I highly doubt that anyone here has the experience to throw a party like this.
Post Number: 1130
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 8:47 am: || |
Wow! I did not realize the cover had gone up that much.
I love electronic music, but I wouldn't pay that high a price.
Post Number: 237
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 9:54 am: || |
To return to no cover status, the Movement will have to get some serious title sponsors.
I think it is interesting that OzzFest is going the free ticket route this year. However, there are several hoops to jump through to get tickets:
The sponsors that will be footing most of the bill want their exposure to make the costs worthwhile.
I was planning on biking downtown to get some of the atmosphere on Sunday. Rain kept me within 10 miles of my house. One day I'll make it.
Post Number: 183
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 10:16 am: || |
I'm sure the city will make some money with the the promoters have to pay the commercial income tax the city has.
Post Number: 718
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 10:22 am: || |
Negative Nancys are everywhere again. Would you like some cheese with that Wine?
Post Number: 9446
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 10:38 am: || |
I personally couldn't stand the damned bass until midnight, every night! I think they even turned up the volume at about 8:30PM on Monday.
Nothing like hearing a wall of muffled sound for 8+ hours everyday for 3 days...Turn that shit down a bit...for the sake of others.
Post Number: 5933
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 10:43 am: || |
Tech Fest, where the hip cool skinny white kids put on the gothic wares color their hair, buy some dancing lights and party until they get crunked.
Post Number: 9288
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 11:06 am: || |
Heya Goat, we didn't hear a lick of it down on Belle Isle, where were you Sunday?!
Thanks for the clarification RO, I fully understand that for this to succeed, let alone continue merely existing, that they NEED an underwriter to cover the whole then insure they get a return from their vendors. It IS curious that they took this 'free' tack with Ozzfest.
All they've got to do it turn cash into dollar tickets, then make sure all pricing for every souvenir and food item are even dollar multiples. (None of the bullshit from Tastefest that guarantee odd lots of tickets leftover) They control the amount of cash at the event...have their 'take' in cash up front...and everyone has fake money to only spend within Hart Plaza.
That is the way it should work. People wander through, realize there are things they enjoy...they stick around, comfortably on their schedule, exchange some cash for tickets, then spend it until it is gone or they can pawn a few off on newcomers.
BIGGEST THING is that those who have no idea what electronic music is all about can experience it without commitment, then add to the income stream when they get hungry, thirsty, chilly, or desiring some take-along music memories...or just walk away, no harm save a few spent minutes.
I just hated to see Hart Plaza turned into a holding prison, even merely for a weekend. That is just wrong.
Post Number: 9447
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 11:12 am: || |
Gannon, a very good friend of mine's Mother passed away and we had to sort through her home to put it up for sale. It was, still is, a very daunting task to do and he didn't want to do it by himself.
I thin that maybe the Ren Cen may have blocked most of the noise going east as I could hear it on Monday almost near the Ambassador Bridge.
Post Number: 134
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:34 pm: || |
Danny, what is your problem with hip cool skinny white kids? I'm a hip cool skinny white kid from the suburbs, what's it to you? Oh, by the way, I don't have my parents credit card.
Post Number: 1342
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 1:53 pm: || |
It's important to not talk directly to Danny. It angers him. Also, I wouldn't recommend looking him directly in the eye. Keep your distance and pretend like he isn't there.
Hahahahahahahahaha. Just kidding.
Post Number: 18
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 3:18 pm: || |
"It seems like if they can run the jazz festival for free they could make the MUCH bigger techno festival for free."
Kslice, the reason the jazz festival is free is because local philanthropist and jazz fan Gretchen Valade put up $10 million to create an endowment for its support. If you don't have a sugar mommy, then you need some other deep pockets. Corporate support is waning, and so the electronic festival folks created a new model where the attendees pay for it. Sure, who wouldn't want to go for free? But at least under this model, they've pulled it off for the last couple of years.
Post Number: 206
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 4:32 pm: || |
I went Sunday and Monday on a weekend pass, enjoyed every second and thought it was well worth the cost. I went in '05 and '06 for a few hours each and spent most of my time enjoying the atmosphere and people-watching. This time I really listened hard to the music, and it was pure brilliance. I'd pay $46 just to hear Model 500, Richie Hawtin and Jeff Mills with no other acts and without the ambience of Hart Plaza (I'm probably in the minority in that I actually like the design of Hart Plaza) and the riverfront. Gorillaz don't, in my view, belong at a techno festival, although I wouldn't mind having some trance acts during the day. I'll agree though, the hefty entrance fee did keep me from buying as much vendor merchandise as I would have liked. I'll probably go to a Pure Detroit store and get a shirt when I've got a bit more cash to burn.
Regarding the jazz festival, it isn't at Hart Plaza, is it? I'd imagine renting Hart Plaza for three days is not cheap.
Post Number: 9300
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 4:34 pm: || |
While it withers and dies from lack of NEW bodies daring to witness the genre?!
Nah, once the fences went up it is downhill. They can turn it around, and two years of real attendance records should help them approach a major underwriter or four...as long as they admit to them the current situation isn't working.
It cannot, in the long run.
That admission would help excuse declining attendance figures, and honestly inform whichever deep pockets they are pitching the idea towards that the current managers are honest and aware of their limitations.
(any savvy potential underwriter will know the worldwide draw this event can have, as well as momentum enough to SUFFER a limited-entry chokehold...plus, the good response Paxahau has gotten after a few years can ONLY help them gain a sugarparent or two!)
A festival by design should be an open funnel introducing the cause or genre to the populace, not simply serving those who already know the market.
You need INCREASING input to insure growth, so they need to turn that funnel function around...right now it is exactly only barely leaking IN those diligent enough to work through the tight fit...while shutting out or chasing away all of those they need for the future!
Post Number: 207
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 4:46 pm: || |
That's true, and I agree, but if the admission charge is necessary in the short term to keep the festival going, I'll gladly pay it for as long as it takes for Paxahau to pull it out of the money pit. The pre-2005 situation wasn't sustainable either, and I feel incredibly lucky that DEMF stuck around long enough for me to experience it. The first time I went to DEMF and paid admission, I wasn't all that interested in the music, and the festival fuelled my interest in techno to the point that now I'm spending ten or eleven hours a day for two days there as opposed to four or five hours on one day. So the admission charge does cut down on the number of people who will be introduced to the genre, but it doesn't completely eliminate that aspect of the festival.
Post Number: 492
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 6:20 pm: || |
The Movement techno festival drew 43,337 people to Hart Plaza over the holiday weekend, organizers said today.
That figure is short of last year’s total of 45,323..... from the Freep
Post Number: 18
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 10:11 pm: || |
The 43,337 figure is really not bad considering that there were basically two rainy days.
Maybe there could be one free day featuring up-and-coming artists, then paid admission for the legends of the genre.
For an old bluegrasser like me, the DAMF sounds like a wonderful idea. And the place to do it, IMO, is Historic Fort Wayne.
Post Number: 493
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 10:17 pm: || |
I had thought about that as well.... Extend it a day by adding Friday as a free day. Obviously not as much stuff going on, but it could entice people to purchase tickets for the event. Perhaps, give those that come on Friday a couple bucks off admission for the weekend.
Post Number: 342
|Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 11:42 pm: || |
^^Great ideas about a free day. Pass the idea along, things don't happen without being heard.
Post Number: 9308
|Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 3:53 am: || |
Now see, there is another great idea.
The infrastructure is in place already (they were setup by Thursday), and the vendors cannot be upset to have another day to sell their wares...higher cost for additional security and performers, but if they are the lower cost up-n-comers it could be managed.
IF this genre is not unlike jazz and the other collaboration music types, and I get the feel that it is to some extent...then perhaps some of the majors who are in town could drop in for a quick mix to promote their shows later in the weekend, like a teaser.
Maybe have the record labels sponsor this day, so they can get their names highlighted, and put up a few of their new talent...maybe even a little competition.
You give the city a chance to taste it, who knows, there would probably be a few new fans in a free crowd...leading to commitment to stay the weekend. ESPECIALLY after they read the promos and possibly hear a teaser for those coming in to play...many people didn't even LOOK because they wouldn't pay to try the festival out, so they didn't need to know anything about those they were missing.
Really great compromise...way to think Tex and Spirit. I feel THAT type of out-of-the-box consideration is what can help make this city better in dozens of different ways.
Post Number: 1217
|Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 - 11:37 pm: || |
I know this is kinda late, but here is some video that the Mrs. took from the EMF.