  Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 270 Registered: 02-2007 |
How happy are you to pay this weeks gas prices... wouldn't it be great if we hadn't become so dependent on OPEC then alienated most members.... Maybe we can destroy our environment NOW...that seems to be what the administration in Washington has been waiting on...get the prices so high we won't care where we drill and what the long term will cost our children... Yell at the left for wanting alternative fuels... this is crazy... Ok now justify why prices are high and how that is good for America... | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2006 |
and yet the "not so big three" are still fighting the government tooth and nail to avoid having to build more fuel efficient vehicles. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2058 Registered: 12-2005 |
Watch the carnage at http://www.detroitgasprices.co m/. Their custom graphs and  zoomable gas price temperature map can be very useful. | ||
20043_stotter Member Username: 20043_stotter Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2007 |
This oil baron administration, is going to take advantage of us and continue to make unbelievable record profits. Because they know they only have until November 2008 to do so. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2006 |
We as a nation did this to ourselves. We chose to thumb our noses at mass transit, rail, centralized economies. We went out and bought the biggest cars we could find in order to feel safe. We shunned the cities for the expanse of the exurbs. We will reap what we have sown. I don't feel sorry for any of the people who have contributed to the current state and now whine that they can't afford there 30 mile commute in the H2. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 565 Registered: 05-2005 |
What about those who whine about their 15 mile commute in their rice burner? Funny how some of you think these prices only effect those who live away from their jobs and drive H2's These prices effect everything, food, clothes, entertainment, etc....and those of you who feel so smug right now, it WILL effect you too. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yes, it will effect me as well. I do enjoy scooting by the Hummers on the highway. A smirk comes to my face, as I think about the 100 miles I get for that three dollar gallon, as opposed to their 12-15. More than that though, I am angry that we are in the position in the first place. I am relatively young and have just started making choices about where to live, work, and how to get between them. I feel like my predecessors made some huge mistakes when the shaped our country. When I listen to my parents talk about taking the train or trolleys downtown, and how much they enjoyed it, I am angry that they let those things die, for the car. I have been saying for years, that the best thing that can happen to us would be if gas prices started creeping up towards five dollars. It would force us as a nation to address public transportation on a large scale. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 566 Registered: 05-2005 |
It might force tha nation to address public transportation, but it will ruin the thousands of people who have only a min. wage job....the job climate in Michigan is going to get much worse before its get better. People are being or will be forced to choose between food or gas, medicine or gas, clothes for kids or gas, vacation this year? nope ,cant afford the gas. And what about the poeple who live in the country, screw them because of lifestyle they choose? My husband is only 15 minutes from work, but its all dirt roads...there will never be buses out here to take to work | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2609 Registered: 11-2003 |
I topped off on Tuesday, and I have a large enough tank so I can hold off for a while. Why isn't there any vitriol directed at the environmentalists for cramming "regionally" blended gas down our throats? What? No anger directed at the insurgents in Saudi Arabia who threatened to blow up some oil fields? The Saudi's may turn a blind eye towards terrorists who operate overseas, but woe to the group who wants to blow up an oil field in their own country. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2006 |
I do have sympathy for those who during the transition are going to suffer but something has to give. The wasteful lifestyle we have been living has got to end. If we hadn't sat on our laurels for so long, this wouldn't have been such a painful experience. We did nothing while all the signs pointed towards this. This problem, this suffering is our creation, and the hard times between now and the brighter future is ours to endure. | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2612 Registered: 11-2003 |
Um, what are you talking about? | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 271 Registered: 02-2007 |
all you got to do is see how suddenly the costs of all goods creeps up...and yes it is generally not the Hummer set that suffers. Many cities are just not set up for mass transit unfortunately.... but Gas is a speculation market...any excuse to raise prices will cause the market to rise...It is really sad we lost our stature in the world ...maybe we could have negotiated like we used to do with OPEC..now they are controlled by Craziness in South America and radical others... | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2415 Registered: 10-2003 |
The cost of goods would only skyrocket if we keep insisting on supporting the current institutions and far-flung distribution systems we have in place. Instead of eating lettuce from California's Central Valley, you may have to eat lettuce grown in Michigan. Instead of purchasing meat from agribusiness concerns like ConAgra, you might actually have to buy meat raised on a real farm. We might actually be able to--and have to--buy clothes and shoes made in the U.S. You might not be able to drive thousands of miles just to see "Main Street USA" at Disney World, perhaps substituting a trip to a real "Main Street" closer to home. I don't see how this is so bad. For decades, we've had "freedom of choice" rammed down our throats to the point where Wal Mart is the only choice for any kind of purchases in much of the country. This is going to require a major paradigm shift, and people who are too stubborn to pay attention are going to be left behind. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 285 Registered: 08-2005 |
Buzzman, when you talk about getting 100mpg at highway speed, it's hard to imagine what you're piloting. No car gets that kind of mileage, nor does any bike (newer Vespas - which barely make the 125cc minimum for highways - get 70mpg at best, and few bigger bikes get anywhere near that). You could probably get 100mpg from a plug-in hybrid, but in Michigan the chances are good that the electrical "cheat" component would have to come from fossil fuels. If you are talking about a motorcycle, you can expect regulators to crack down hard in the next few years. Although they use less fuel, motorcycles are amazingly dirty when it comes to tailpipe emissions (worse on a per-mile basis than SUVs). So it's a fairly safe bet that motorcycles figure pretty big on the carbon hit list. Being critical of generations that came before is a luxury of whatever generation is coming of age. Reading about things in the two-dimensional view of a textbook, someone's web site, or in the gilded and polished view of an older relative makes us lose sight of the fact that events unfold much more slowly in real life than in 20/20 hindsight. At the time the DSR was dying out, people probably didn't think about it (or the future consequences) too much. Autos were considered a huge status symbol after the war (and not just in Detroit), gas was cheap and the Middle East was relatively stable. And speaking of the young and the DSR (if you grew up here - maybe you are from somewhere else?), are you talking about your parents or grandparents? If you are "relatively young," then it's hard to imagine that your parents were older than small children when they rode the DSR streetcars, which (if I recall correctly reading) shut down in 1956. Don't feel bad because they thought it was "fun;" I thought that riding the DOT bus was fun when I was 8!  | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2006 |
Huggybear: You caught me on my scooter statement. We own two different scoots, a Kymco People 250, and a Genuine Buddy 125. The People seems to average between 40-60 mpg depending on its use. The Buddy does come close to the 100 mpg, consistently over 90 for my commute. Second, I do get critical, and it is easier to sit here and vent about what they should have been done. I think more of my anger has come from the continued resistance to change and lack of foresight. It just frustrates me when I talk to people and they seem to think this came out of the blue. This has been working steadily up since I started driving, and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. It bothers me that so many people just act surprised and talk about how much their commutes are costing them now, when it was those people who chose to live out in the burbs and drive 20 miles to work. My mother grew up in Northville and would take the train with her father downtown. She is in her late fifties now so I assume that was probably late fifties early sixties she was describing. What really set it all off was that I grew up in suburbia west of Detroit. I always thought it would be great if I could hop on something and be Downtown, without a car. Then I moved to Kansas City for graduate school, and although it's not the best bus system it is miles ahead of detroit and makes living with out a car possible. I guess, I just get frustrated that Detroit can't unite the metro for a quality transit system that would truly help with many of the problems in the area. | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 189 Registered: 06-2006 |
Quote: and yet the "not so big three" are still fighting the government tooth and nail to avoid having to build more fuel efficient vehicles. When people buy cars that are more fuel efficient, they just drive more. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 611 Registered: 01-2005 |
You folks are just plain spoiled. And, you have no idea how the oil market works. Gas is much higher in Europe and most other places in the world. Nobody complains about the cost of Starbucks or bottled water, which are several times more expensive per gallon than gasoline. Nobody accused the oil companies of gouging the public in 1998 and '99 when oil was $9.50/bbl and we were all going broke. Sure, the price of oil is up, but so are the costs of finding, producing and transporting it. Oil prices are very sensitive to geopolitical events. (I've had several opportunities to sell out in the last 2 or 3 years; I'm waiting for the inevitable day when the fundamentalists actually knock out one of the 3 Saudi export terminals, as was planned last week, and oil goes over $100/bbl; it's just a question of time.) The government loves higher gas prices despite all the hand-wringing because as the gas price goes up, so does sales tax revenue. Marathon Oil just announced today that it's going to spend $3.2 BILLION to expand one of its refineries in order to increase the production of diesel fuel, the gamble being that by 2020 gasoline consumption will peak as more and more vehicles go diesel. Where do y'all think those investment dollars are coming from? You all better be thankful that the oil companies are reinvesting billions of those profit dollars to find and produce more oil. Otherwise, because no one wants public transportation (except a few on this forum), everyone's going to be walking one of these days. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1046 Registered: 02-2007 |
What you're getting at 3wc is how prices will continue to go up, no matter what so don't complain. I think we do have the right to complain when we must pay $4.00 for a measly galllon of gas or .99 cents for a .25 cents size bag of chips or $20 for 8 piece bucket of KFC chicken. That's not spoiling, but depriving. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 691 Registered: 10-2003 |
I was recently in Europe where gas is much more expensive. The consumer behavior exhibited there is almost the same even though gas is twice as expensive. Letting their cars idle while sitting in line at McDonalds. Did you ever think about turning the engine off while you wait? Driving at a high rate of speed to get there a minute earlier. Why do people do it? Because they can and their behavior isn't going to change if gas is $10 a gallon or $15 a gallon. Also, our entire physical environment is now based on the car. We need to change the fuel which powers these vehicles because the economies of the developed nations depend on it. Everyone knows it! | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 415 Registered: 11-2006 |
I read today that some of the 'alternative' fuels are actually bad for the rain forests or whatever. What the heck? Does anyone know more about this? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1590 Registered: 10-2003 |
$3.50 this year, $4.00 next year! LMFAO! Keep buying those Escalades... | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1390 Registered: 11-2003 |
Who really gives a crap if you can afford it? I just filled up today for $3.50/gallon in Palo Alto. It cost me $40 to fill up my teeny tiny little Miata. You know what? I couldn't care less. I love my car. I love to drive. Gas could be $8/gallon and I'd probably still drive as much as I do now. Gas is still one of the cheapest expenses to owning a car. Car payments, interest, and insurance are still far far more expensive than the gas that goes in the thing. I do think it is a shame that American's don't have more options, and I know not everyone has the luxury to blow off gas prices like I do (I don't make a ton, but I just don't spend a ton either). But I have very little simpathy for those who can't make ends meet but are paying $400/month on a car payment. I do think that we are going to end up screwed when the shxt hits the fan, whenever that is, and those nations who have a dense, urban, transit oriented setup will be in a much better position. Cars will never go away, and tons of people will still drive them. But it will be similar to Europe, where most people just choose not to pay that expense for that luxury. I will hold on as long as I can. I love to drive. I love the freedom. And I will do everything I can to keep that sense of enjoyment I get from driving my car. With that said, places like San Francisco, Chicago, Portland, New York, etc will really find themselves sitting pretty when/if gas gets crazy expensive. When people can no longer drive everywhere and want to live closer, and take mass transit, those cities are ready to go. With that said, I sometimes think that Detroit's greatest chance at revival is this. High fuel prices are really the only thing I can see bringing a mass influx into Detroit, and result in the funding, and desire, for a mass transit system here. Unfortunately outer ring suburbs will end up the ruins. Not everyone will win. Will be interesting. We can all only go with the flow, plan for the worst, and hope for the best. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 81 Registered: 02-2007 |
Fury, I don't see the humor. Your import uses fuel too. Seems you have almost an vendetta against Detroit and it's products. Always some reason to not support Detroit and why it's much better to drive imports. If you're taking some joy in all this, I have to ask why? Sorry for being so blunt, it's just the "Detroit" in me I guess. Alot of good hard working people here hurting and it's anything but funny. The facts are: The oil boys and their Enron type monopoly is driving the price of everything up. Fuel costs for logistics are applied to all retail pricing. Utilities have doubled and tripled in some cases in the last few years. Materials that involve considerable energy use for their manufacture, like aluminum have went thru the roof. That few cents you're saving a mile driving your tin box is being swamped by the cost increases of everything else. So you can stop laughing, we're not the only one's getting screwed. | ||
Superduperman Member Username: Superduperman Post Number: 290 Registered: 01-2005 |
I love my Escalade and if it ever came a day when I couldn't afford to put gas in it I simply wouldn't. Its not as if people who buy trucks are unaware of how much it cost and might cost in the future to fuel out vehicles,its a personal choice is nobody elses business. | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 195 Registered: 06-2006 |
quote: The facts are: The oil boys and their Enron type monopoly is driving the price of everything up. I don't think that those are facts. The government makes more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1047 Registered: 02-2007 |
"I read today that some of the 'alternative' fuels are actually bad for the rain forests or whatever. What the heck?" You'll have to talk to her.....  | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1395 Registered: 11-2003 |
Oh god. Is that that Heidi Cullen lady from the Weather Channel? Blech. Every time I see her face its some more blah blah blah on global warming and the environment. They should have put that Hilary Andrews on that show. Maybe I'd watch for more than 10 seconds.... Yeah, you Weather Channel dorks know who I'm talking about..... | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1064 Registered: 02-2007 |
*I believe they fired Andrews. I haven't seen her on there lately. She would act like some drunk when doing the weather anchoring.* Even half the meteorologists and viewers at TWC is upset at her because she states that anyone met. that doesn't believe in GW sholdn't have their degree, which is BS. (Message edited by Urbanize on May 02, 2007) | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1592 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sstashmoo, I'll stop laughing when the US automakers finally "get it" about fuel economy. I really hope they do. I support Detroit. I DO NOT support the automakers in their wrongheaded approach to producing cars that don't fit the changing marketplace. Moreover, Detroit does NOT, in my opinion, equate solely to the auto industry. And it shouldn't. The sooner that we shift from the stupid one-horse economy that we're tied to, the better. | ||
Club_boss Member Username: Club_boss Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2006 |
I think this is bigger than the big 3, they could certainly help. America is her own worst enemy when it comes to oil; America continues to inhale gasoline at a record pace. Stating America is addicted to oil is putting mildly, America is the worst crack addict anyone has ever seen when it comes to oil. The United States population represents approximately 5 % of the worlds population but we consume somewhere between 25 % maybe 30 % of the worlds energy. Per day… A tanker truck holds about 9,000 gallons (34,000 liters) of gasoline. It would take 40,000 tanker trucks to carry the gasoline the U.S. consumes in one day. A super tanker ship like the Exxon Valdez carries about 1.26 million barrels of oil, so ip-so-fatso it takes about 14.25 of these mega ships to carry all of the oil that the U.S. consumes in just one day. I believe California consumes more gasoline in one month than the entire country of Russia. More than once this year America has set yet another record when it comes to per month consumption of gasoline. America imports about 1/2 of her oil. Somewhere around $3.50 to $4.00 per gallon America eases her fix for oil and people do drive less, think about selling their 3 ton SUV, etc., etc. The real cost or America's legacy: The U.S. is releasing roughly 2 billion pounds of carbon into the atmosphere each day. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9037 Registered: 12-2003 |
The real costs have NOT yet been calculated. Those start when the developing nations like China and India begin to ACT on the information outlined above...when they start to balance the scales on what we consume here versus what we produce. It is inevitable given their desire to develope their nation's economies fully...same with the need for women for Chinese men, after decades of one-child policy and mass female abortions. Reading that disgruntled Asian man's website didn't help this analysis any...that kind of pent-up anger in millions of horny Chinese men could potentially be a force beyond measure that will NOT be reckoned with easily. We're already dead because we are fat, lazy, and stupid...and have an entire system seemingly designed to KEEP us that way, right up 'til the slaughter. I wouldn't be so adamant about it if things like the Georgia Guidestones weren't around. They are proof that some group exists that would greatly prefer that the world's population drop by ninety percent. Plus, they're past their own deadline...although they've given THAT horrible term a sinister twist. An argument can be made that gasoline helped fuel the lot of our fatness, laziness, and stupidness (hey, it was easier than forcing 'fatidity', although I may use that one somewhere)...if not for the comforts and entertainment enabled via cheap oil, we'd not be so far along with all three. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 699 Registered: 04-2006 |
"I DO NOT support the automakers in their wrongheaded approach to producing cars that don't fit the changing marketplace. " The funny thing is that Detroit's automakers actually do produce much mor fuel efficient cars. They just produce them for other countries. Speaking of other countries... Anybody catch that clip on CNN.com a couple months ago of how dangerous it is to drive in China? Because everybody has basically just learned how to drive in the last 5 or 6 years? China has like what, a gazillion people who all of a sudden drive cars that need gas? Who's buying a nowadays Buick besides those over 70 and the Chinese? Just a couple weeks ago the WSJ had an article tucked away deep inside about the rising Chinese demand for luxury cars like Audi A6's, 7-Series, etc. Cars that their government wouldn't let the ordinary citizen own 10 years ago, whether or not they could afford it. Demand sets the price. We probably priced out the Europeans and the Chinese are now doing the same to us. Well, that's part of the story at least... | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 82 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "I support Detroit. I DO NOT support the automakers in their wrongheaded approach to producing cars that don't fit the changing marketplace. " Fury, whats wrong with some of us wanting to drive larger vehicles? Did it ever occur to you that not all of us want to drive a go-cart? Many of us use our vehicles to pull boats, campers etc. Yes they get horrible mileage, but thats the price we pay for driving what we want to drive. Not being forced to drive, because creeps in the oil industry are taking advantage of Americas dependence on oil. If it goes to 10 dollars a gallon I'll still drive my gas guzzler. Thats my choice. And they've convinced you it's the "changing global economy" LOL Quote: "Moreover, Detroit does NOT, in my opinion, equate solely to the auto industry. And it shouldn't." I respect your opinion, but this is "The motor city". It's an automotive town. It wouldn't be what it is/was without it. Quote: "The facts are: The oil boys and their Enron type monopoly is driving the price of everything up." ""I don't think that those are facts. The government makes more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do."" So this is really the government price gouging and the oil companies are just going along with it? The oil companies are reporting record, absurd "never before seen" profits and they have nothing to do with it? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1593 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sstashmoo: It was the "Stove City" and the "Tobacco City" long before it was the "Motor City." Detroit hasn't always been auto-centric; that's only the way it's been for maybe 1/3 of its lifetime. So, put it all in some perspective. In 30-40 years, after the likely demise of the domestic auto industry, Detroit will probably be known for something else. And I have NO PROBLEM with those who choose to buy gas-guzzlers. If they can afford it, more power to them. No, what pisses me off is that Detroit automakers continue to stick with the SUV formula and DON'T really offer much in the way of high-mpg vehicles to the increasing numbers of people who want them. In the meantime, their financial and market-share losses increase. Do I want that for Michigan's economy? No. No, I want the "Big 3" to wake up. The fact is that they don't offer enough small, fuel-efficient vehicles. Moreover, they refuse to acknowledge which way the wind is blowing... after all, haven't gas prices been climbing since 1973? Those smart Detroit engineers have had plenty of time to work on this mpg thing. Certainly, even by following gas price trends over the last five years, you'd think that the "Big 3" would have come to the realization that they needed to shift the bulk of their production to cars that will better cope with $4-per-gallon fuel prices. I would certainly have looked at a domestic car if Ford, GM, or DCX made a vehicle comparable to my Yaris in terms of fuel economy, versatility, and purchase price. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 361 Registered: 08-2006 |
Does anyone else out there NOT care about gas prices.....I dont know why people freak out there are plenty of other ways to save money and other ways that money is lost through other higher fees in life. Why do people line up for 20cent cheaper gas but wont stay home and cook a meal a bit more for example. I say who cares about gas prices maybe when it hits 5 or 6 bucks i may care. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2006 |
Right on Fury13. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 362 Registered: 08-2006 |
business owners that use a lot of cars sure have a reason to be mad! | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2006 |
They could buy more fuel efficient cars. Or find a way to do business without the use of so many cars. Or push for legislation that would stop the sprawl and force us into creating more density. In turn, leading to the creation of more transit options. | ||
Unclefrank Member Username: Unclefrank Post Number: 59 Registered: 03-2006 |
Gas prices can't be high enough when idiots that drive those HUGE PU's and SUV's continue to speed by me at 80MPH plus. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 526 Registered: 05-2005 |
Higher gas prices can't get here soon enough. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1594 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Why do people line up for 20 cent cheaper gas, but wont stay home and cook a meal a bit more, for example?" Fareastsider, yeah, I DO stay home and cook. I bring my lunch to work most days, too. In this economy, with my income well below the national average for my profession, I watch every damn penny. So, I sure as hell don't want to watch any more $$$ than necessary go down my gas tank. I prefer to spend my money on other things, like a house payment, or groceries, or even a night out once in a great while. Oh yeah, hell, when I was a kid of 25 or so, I felt the way you do. Gas could go to $5 per gallon; I just wanted to cruise! Guess I'm a bit less tolerant these days. Priorities changed, too. (Message edited by Fury13 on May 02, 2007) | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 613 Registered: 01-2005 |
Do some of you actually think car makers are restricting the production of smaller more fuel efficient cars? What nonsense if anyone believes that. Manufacturers would be glad to produce 10 time as many of those small cars if anyone would buy them. Just admit that most people don't want them. The big 3 or whatever they're called now would produce bicycles if people would buy them. And, we import about 2/3 of our oil (crude and refined products), not 1/2. That percentage can only increase until we smarten up and permit drilling in all offshore areas and places like ANWR. I'm a long time Sierra Club member but have been appalled at how it's changed its focus in the last few years. It's now just a very large high priced lobbying organization and I shall not renew my membership. It and others like it have the economic clout (coupled w/ the failure of most people to do anything other than complain and whine about gas prices) to prevent the country from acting in its own best economic interests. All based on junk science. So, fight for your own economic interests, such as the Canadians have done by exploiting their vast tar sands resources (and exporting over a million bbls a day to the U. S.). We should be doing the same to exploit our TRILLION bbls of oil in oil shale kerogen)in 4 western states. So, continue to whine or get serious about preventing the U.S. from being the biggest debtor nation ever (I think we are now) and a third world nation. We're not far away. (Note: As an oil producer, increasing our oil production as suggested above would be bad for me - (I want more oil coming into the country?) - but it sure would be great for the rest of you.} | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 580 Registered: 05-2005 |
plenty of other ways to save money ------------------------------ -------- I cook every meal, wash every load in cold water, dont drive if I dont have to, combine trips, dont talk on the phone, dont buy if I dont need it.we dont go to the movies, dont go out to eat often........guess the satilitte dish will be next..............but THEN what, when you have econimized everything, then what? | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2006 |
Then people get angry enough to actually get up and force change. Change from government, the manufacturers, and in the way we as American's live our wasteful lives. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9054 Registered: 12-2003 |
Peace and Quiet. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 581 Registered: 05-2005 |
I have all the peace and quiet I need, right here. Gas prices need to stop jumpimg up every few days. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 84 Registered: 07-2006 |
I'm with Fury and Buzz -- It is actually very perplexing that there are as many trucks and SUV's on the road as there is. This gas spike by the government/oil industry (put the blame where you must, but somebody's behind it) is the only way to get selfish consumers to realize the consequences of oil dependancy and environmentally degrading emissions. The American public is so near sighted from the free market that they can simply justify their consumption because they can afford it. At one point -- American citizens are going to have to make the decision of sacrificing their rightfully deserved luxuries for the better cause of human preservation. The historic governmental design allowed Americans to make as much money as we wanted, buy what we wanted, consume what we wanted, spend money on what we wanted (as long as it was legal)............ but this premise is no longer for the good of the earth. This is a different world now with a population that has doubled over and over in less than one century. It all points towards one unforseen climactic disaster. KUDOS to those who fight for less emissions, lower costs, less dependancy, increasing efficiencies, etc. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 582 Registered: 05-2005 |
How is driving a car/truck big enough to haul you and your 4 kids around a luxury? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9056 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hauling around people with your own vehicle is a luxury. Having food around at your body's every beck and whim is a luxury. Clean running water and internal sewage removal is a luxury. Nearly everything we have here in America is luxury...excepting our stress of keeping our part of the machine rolling enough for the rest of us to not riot about the loss of it. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 939 Registered: 02-2006 |
Miss_cleo, you have made your choices. All cars seat 5 people, so the only reason you need an SUV is because you want one. Also, how often do you have all 4 kids in the car together, but that's another topic. Furthermore, I am not faulting you for your choices, but you do have to admit that you've made them. You have chosen to live somewhere that your children must rely on you 100% for their transportation. And that's okay! But don't get angry about the consequences of the choices you made. That would be like me moving to the city and complaining about the crowds. Duh. You moved to the boonies, now don't complain about how you're dependent on gas. Duh. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2006 |
Well said focusonthed. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 583 Registered: 05-2005 |
If you put mom and dad in the front and have 4 kids....well, where does the 4th kid go? and stop preaching to me about where I live, I am fully aware of where I moved, I love it and would not want to live anywhere else. I can and will bitch about gas prices, it effects the price of food, clothes, medicine, they are all trucked ya know. I will bitch when the price goes up EVERY week. That is insane and not necessary, and I WILL bitch | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 584 Registered: 05-2005 |
. All cars seat 5 people, so the only reason you need an SUV is because you want one. ------------------------------ ------------ wow, you are all seeing and all knowing and know what I need to drive...incredible! | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 585 Registered: 05-2005 |
Also, I have plenty of friends and family living downstate, RO, MH, etc, THEY are all complaing and feeling the pinch of the high gas prices as well......so I guess its just not people who choose to live in the boonies that the prices effect. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1074 Registered: 02-2007 |
"so I guess its just not people who choose to live in the boonies that the prices effect." Actually, prices are CHEAPEST in the Boonies according to statistics while they're highest in the Rich, Ghetto Fabulous Suburbs. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2087 Registered: 12-2005 |
There's an email circulating regarding boycotting gasoline on May 15th. It's become an annual tradition. Here's the Snopes exposé of it. My 2¢: True, the May 15th boycott alone will not put a dent in oil profits because people will just buy the same gas on other days. It can at least send a detectable message though that consumers are aware that they are not being treated fairly. If big oil ignores that message, the next step should be to organize a mass one-day voluntary abstinence from all discretionary gasoline consumption. That would put a dent in oil profits. The door should also be left open to future, increasingly frequent nonconsumption days. This action, or even the threat of this action, would definitely get a reaction from big oil. I believe this is the best way to allow oil companies to make the profit they deserve while preventing their abusing that privilege. | ||
Renfirst Member Username: Renfirst Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2006 |
Take a look at how the compact car has done in the last 2 years. Increasing the price of gas is absolutely necessary. I was in Rome last summer and was amazed at the number of SMART cars I saw on the road (I think their headquarters is based out of Bloomfield Hills). Capitalism can be a bitch, but when you have a nation more concerned with American Idol than the state of geo-politics, don't be surprised when the world laughs at your whining. Grow up. There's a direct correlation between the instability in the Middle East and gas prices. If you really want some change, start paying attention to what's happening in the world, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 527 Registered: 05-2005 |
People just crack me up. They move somewhere that mandates driving vast distances for all of life's basic needs, then they complain about gas prices! To top it off, they are probably driving an SUV. - All the smarts of jumping in the lake, and then complaining about getting wet. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 280 Registered: 11-2005 |
100 MPG Prius 2009... http://www.edmunds.com/insidel ine/do/News/articleId=109981 Don't drive BIKE! http://www.detroitsynergy.org/ projects/detroitbikes/folder.2 006-05-11.4637500433/ | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 383 Registered: 04-2006 |
SMART no longer qualifies for any federal transit grants from the the federal tax on fuel. Get the facts, on the new website coming soon. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 586 Registered: 05-2005 |
cheapest in the boonies! OMG! Thats rich! Guess you have never been up here in the summer when they raise the prices to rape the Fudgies that come up every weekend. Til a few days ago, you guys wernt even at 3.00 (you wernt in the Automakers thread I posted) So, I guess your little statistics mean squat in the real world. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 702 Registered: 04-2006 |
Another reason for higher gas prices is the declining value of the US dollar. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 587 Registered: 05-2005 |
3.20 up here, I checked prices down there and found 2 stations at 3.19, the rest were under 3.10 So much for your statistics | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 85 Registered: 07-2006 |
Did you ever think of getting a station wagon Miss Cleo?? What about a mini-van?? While these cars are not quite the perfect poster car for GW and gas mileage, the fact remains, they destroy SUV's and trucks hands down on gas consumption. Now I don't quite think you have admitted to this thread what kind of car you do actually CHOOSE to drive, however, you have defended SUV's tooth and nail and I just can't seem to justify your points in relation to your gripes. This day and age you can't vote with your hand or voice anymore. In our society, you have to vote with your pocket book. In this case, not buying an SUV. The minute the government and the oil companies see mass groups of people driving SUV's daily, not to mention buying them up at record paces, they are going to say to themselves, "the American people must have some extra disposable income they don't really need." | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1077 Registered: 02-2007 |
"3.20 up here, I checked prices down there and found 2 stations at 3.19, the rest were under 3.10 So much for your statistics" They're not mine. but the State's statistics. Down here, SW Detroit always has the cheapest gas. They also mentioned that places heading northward along Telegraph here north of 8 Mile is much more higher than the average state gast price. So that's not the Boonies? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 703 Registered: 04-2006 |
I'm pretty sure Ann Arbor typically has the highest gas prices in the state... | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 233 Registered: 11-2004 |
  I guess everyone may see it differently, but that doesn't meet my definition of "destroy". | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 941 Registered: 02-2006 |
I paid $3.55/gal last night to fill up my motorcycle (Chicago). I also have a Ford Focus, but it stays parked unless I take out of town trips, because the motorcycle gets 50mpg+ in the city, vs. the car's 24-28 (Message edited by focusonthed on May 03, 2007) | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 88 Registered: 07-2006 |
How many kids can you fit on the back of you motorcycle Focus? 2? 3? maybe 4? | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 943 Registered: 02-2006 |
Clearly Tkshreve, it depends how many of those children are skilled trapeze artists. But, while being sarcastic, you've actually perfectly illustrated my point. I ride my motorcycle alone, and if I were to have company, I still have a car...however, in the meantime, I cut my fuel consumption in half. | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 896 Registered: 02-2004 |
i need to learn how to use a motorcycle | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 232 Registered: 09-2006 |
Since we are obviously not going to get any help from our governing forces, one has to take matters in their own hands..Unfortunately,lots of people have bought gas guzzlers and are stuck till they sell or when their lease is up but others will need to quite simply buy fuel efficient cars. We still have it good compared to Canada (Windsor) where I work where gas is around 1.05CDN a litre,, This works out in equivalent units (our gallon is smaller) and equivalent dollars to $4.27 US a US gallon so they are still paying at least a dollar a gallon more than we are . How do they handle it ?? Well, my coworkers there don't seem to complain that much for some reason, they all drive small cars and make it work. They don't seem to feel it is a right to be driving a huge SUV to prove their worth as a human being and are generally more concerned about polluting the environment. This year more that 54% of cars sold so far in Canada are compact or subcompact. One has to do what one has to do. Also, many of them walk or bicycle to work and social events now, Some, have even moved closer to the city core to be closer to their jobs. If Detroit was smart they would begin a good PR campaign for people working in the D to live in the D that was funded by all the various residential developments downtown and surrounding areas. Its making more and more sense for a lot of people. Not to many families would do it but alot of others would. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2006 |
What do you attribute to the citizens of Canada being so concerned with gas consumption and environmental awareness? Are there commercials, flyers, organized protests, propaganda, etc. that make Canadians choose those life styles or is it simply common sense? On average, when I drive most places, there is a 60% chance I can not see the road ahead of the car in front of me. Between pick ups, SUV's, mini-vans, and commercial vehicles it seems like compact and sedan style cars are just not popular. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1598 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think your system is great, FocusontheD. You have the best of both worlds. I'd love to have a motorcycle again myself (I started riding 20-plus years ago), and the MPG on a bike is one of the benefits. Miss_Cleo, you might want to look at the Subaru Outback wagon. Fairly roomy, a well-engineered all-wheel-drive system, more ground clearance than a car, utterly reliable, and about 23 MPG overall. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 233 Registered: 09-2006 |
Well I think the Canadians are concerned about gas prices and environmental issues for several reasons. Most coworkers say they think its the most economical way to get around with a small car so they dont mind putting people in a smaller car to travel.. Europeans do it all the time. The Canadian government is very big on using the media to encourage a clean environment, there are television and radio ads constantly touting government programs for conservation. I think its developed into a mind set ethic for many people in Canada. They feel its the right thing to do for the planet as well as makes things easier on the pocket book. Pretty logical actually. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 84 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: ""They don't seem to feel it is a right to be driving a huge SUV to prove their worth as a human being and are generally more concerned about polluting the environment."" Has nothing to do with why some of us choose to drive larger vehicles. It has everything to do with driving what we wish to drive and not being forced into some vehicle with the same origins as Godzilla and Mothra. If I'm in an accident, the last thing I want to be in is a poorly engineered asian car. No mass for better fuel consumption = less mass to absorb impact in a collision. Which means you'll be closer to the action. If I want to haul something, I don't have to be concerned wether my vehicle will do it or not. Or wether it will be safe or not with a load. If the suspension or puny tires can handle it, or the brakes are sufficient to stop it. The oil companies are forcing many to downsize and trashing the auto industry with it, I'm not downsizing. Remembering the gas wars and shortages of the 70's, same thing happened, everyone panicked and bought a fuel efficient car. A few years later the gas price dropped and they couldn't give them away. When gas is high they are "practical", when it's low they are viewed as a joke. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 234 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote:Huh...I didn't realize that's what I've been doing. I thought I just enjoyed camping with my family. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1602 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sstashmoo: And you'll keep eating lots of red meat too, dammit! Right? !!! Seriously, I believe my Asian car is very well engineered. It has very quick steering, so accident avoidance is much better than in my old Cherokee (which handled like a brick on wheels). I have ABS, as well as front and side-curtain airbags, for added safety. Yeah, there is less mass and metal on my econo-car, overall. It weighs 2900 pounds. I suppose I could live in fear of being flattened by a semi making a lane change. But hell, I could get hit and killed just walking off the curb into the street tomorrow, too. You may view economy cars as a joke. Funny, that's how I view Hummers and Escalades. IMO, the gas prices will not drop again, at least not significantly or for any length of time. I think they're going to keep going up from now on. At least I'm prepared for that. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1868 Registered: 04-2005 |
Today in Grand Blanc, the price at a BP is 3.25 for regular. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 273 Registered: 11-2006 |
We should do gas and gos. Fill up and take off without paying!!!!!! | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1400 Registered: 01-2005 |
Good idea, but everything out here is pay first then pump. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 865 Registered: 01-2006 |
I don't know where the hell in the metro area a "gas and go" is even possible, but if they are, keep in mind that you are hugely ripping off a station owner who makes almost no profit whatsoever from the sale of fuel, the price of which is controlled and dictated by people the owner doesn't even know and has never seen, an owner who depends on sales of the snack, beverage, and other ("Swishers") items inside the place for his profits. On the other hand, when I consider the source of that suggestion, why would I expect, or look for, any post-pubescent level of judgment or discernment, anyway. | ||
Yelloweyes Member Username: Yelloweyes Post Number: 134 Registered: 02-2007 |
I haven't bought gas in two weeks. I am boycotting gas. I see it's working great. If gas does hit $4/gallon that sure will hurt a lot of businesses...costs will just be passed on to the consumer....consumer will demand raise due to increased costs...next summer gas will be $5/gallon...that will hurt a lot of businesses...costs will be passed on to the consumer...I think there is a name for this process. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 85 Registered: 02-2007 |
Another thing to consider: How expensive is gasoline really? If you look at the price of gas over the last 80 years and what the wages were at the time, gas is really still cheap. I don't have the exact numbers, but I seem to recall someone (elderly) saying in the 30's-40's it was 20some cents a gallon, compared to the wage it was more expensive than it is now. Fury: Yes I eat red meat occasionally and no I won't stop eating it (dammit) . I don't smoke and I drink rarely. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1604 Registered: 10-2003 |
I paid $3.01 per gallon this morning at Costco. At that price, with the fuel economy I'm getting, I can still drive to Chicago and back, and drive around town there a little, for under $60. Still a cheap out-of-town trip for me. Hell, even at $80 in fuel expenses, it would still be cheap. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 592 Registered: 05-2005 |
3.19 on Monday, 3.25 on Friday | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 86 Registered: 02-2007 |
Fury, my truck gets a legit 19 mpg on the highway. Chicago is 230 miles, 460 round trip/19=24 gallons of gas X 3.00 = 72 bucks. Not exactly breaking the bank. Factor in the added safety, way more cargo and passenger room, better ride, etc. It's well worth 12 dollars extra. | ||
Club_boss Member Username: Club_boss Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2006 |
$3.19 downtown Indianapolis $3.15 if I look around a bit | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1613 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sstashmoo, I'm figuring about 650 miles total for my aforementioned trip to Chicago. Like I said, I drive around a bit when I go there. And sometimes I take US-12 for part of the way. 650-mile trip, cost $59.42 at $3.20/gallon. Only 18.57 gallons used. Average of 35 mpg. That's a little different from what you assumed. And, I have plenty of cargo space.  My $59.42 trip (again, 650 miles) would cost you $109.47 (figuring $3.20/gallon as in my calculation). So I guess it's actually worth the extra 50 bucks (not 12) to you to drive your truck. (Message edited by Fury13 on May 04, 2007) | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 948 Registered: 02-2006 |
Not to mention, have fun driving your truck in Chicago. God forbid you have to park it somewhere. Yeesh. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 92 Registered: 07-2006 |
QUOTE --> "Factor in the added safety" I love when people refer to driving big cars as an increase safety. Thanks, let's see how many "big" autos we can get on the road to "increase" safety. With that thought, as long as we are safe in our big ol' truck, we might as well drive 10 mph faster. Now what happens to the economy cars when they get hit by one if these increasingly abundant truck/SUV's that are everywhere? What's next....... should I go buy a school bus to one up the next guy? Hey Gassy-Van-Gas-Guzzles...... let's end the pi$$ing contest and do something good for the world. Put aside your ego and only buy what you "NEED" to buy. I understand large families and contractors who actually need the cargo space, but soccer moms and daddy's favorite little girl.... C'mon!! | ||
Revolutionary Member Username: Revolutionary Post Number: 129 Registered: 09-2004 |
So this is what deconsumption sounds like. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 87 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: ""Now what happens to the economy cars when they get hit by one if these increasingly abundant truck/SUV's?"" Nothing good.. Fury, Thanks for the pic, if that's an inquiry, yes it should fit in my truck | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 401 Registered: 01-2007 |
My Ford F 150 Earth Killer gets 10 blocks to the gallon. It cost about $150.00 to fill both tanks. Gas prices would be a lot lower if we could drill our own oil in our own soil and sea. But noo00oooo! We mustn’t! Drilling might hurt some stupid piss ant, or dirty some god forsaken inaccessible remote rock strewn walrus covered ice beach, that can only be reached by some gigantic research ship driven by a bunch of rich liberal pointy headed holier then-thou demigods which burns ten times as much petrol as my shitty truck ever does. I could drive less to save on gas, but that means I wouldn't be working, since that is primarily what I use it for. I am so sick and tired of this useless arguing over a self inflected problem, one that would be gone over night, with no impact on our poor poor little defenseless children. We should be drilling straight down to fucking hell if it meant not a penny would go to those who would love to see us, the U.S. all die to the last child, right winger, lib, man, woman, thing and it. One day, the god damn earth will be GONE! Every thing, and every one will be gone as if had never existed in the first place. This stupid gas price/save the planet thing is absurd to the ultimate extreme, and it is all for NOTHING!!!!!good day | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 247 Registered: 03-2007 |
I am just going to keep putting the same price amount in and try not to get too upset. I have a paper route and deliver Metro Times. I have a six cylinder, Blazer.. Now it is costing me over $100.00 a week in gas. Hep me. Hep me. I can't hep myseff (James Brown). | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 614 Registered: 01-2005 |
Bulletmagnet: Well said. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 872 Registered: 01-2006 |
I think Bulletmagnet's diatribe has a respectable amount of validity to it, goddamit. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 1506 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/0 3/news/economy/bc.usa.congress .gasoline.reut/index.htm | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1103 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ok, everyone's just suffering from the $3.00 syndrome. Like the $2.00 prices, once these types of prices stick around, the syndrome will wear off. |
