  Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 568 Registered: 05-2006 |
When I was a wee little lad(in the mid 70's to early 80's), I would walk from my home on Novara(7 mile and Gratiot) all the way to my friend's house on Lappin all alone.(a whopping 2 blocks!) As a parent in the early 90's, I would NEVER let my daughter walk that far by herself in this day and age. Are we more protective, or less trusting of the world? Thoughts and comments please... | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 271 Registered: 02-2006 |
As far as the front door of my house. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 581 Registered: 07-2004 |
I think everyone is just a little to paranoid. Why would you not let your kid walk? It is no more dangerous today then 20 years ago. Really. I don't want to sound rude. But what do people think is so bad today. There are not people waiting on every corner looking to rob or steal a kid. And the more parents shelter their kids and don't teach them street smarts, the worse off these kids are when they grow up. I work in the transit information centre here in Toronto, and we have parents in the suburbs phoning in to get bus information for their 20 year old kids to get to university. And the kids have like zero street smarts. They freak if you tell them they have to transfer a bus at the transit centre, and they know nothing about directions. Its freaky. And it has to do with parents sheltering their kids way to much. The more you keep your kid sheltered and away from interacting in society, the more trouble and chance they have of getting in trouble when they finally get out into the world. So let your kids roam. (Message edited by miketoronto on June 17, 2007) (Message edited by miketoronto on June 17, 2007) | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 52 Registered: 04-2007 |
They're called "helicopter parents"-- always hovering over their kids. Now they call college professors to "intercede" and have started calling the bosses of their 20-something kids. | ||
Ed_golick Member Username: Ed_golick Post Number: 674 Registered: 10-2003 |
Depends on the neighborhood you live in. Unfortunately, I don't live in Toronto. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1561 Registered: 01-2005 |
Never walked much, thanks to my Ward's Hawthorne bicycle. Even biked from Schoolcraft/Meyers to Mackenzie High in the decent weather times of year. But kids just don't do bikes today like they did in the post-WW II era. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 184 Registered: 05-2004 |
Hey, can you get your kids to walk anywhere? I thought most of them wanted rides. I remember when kids used to deliver papers on bikes. When is the last time you saw that? AS soon (if not before) kids get their driver's permit they stop walking anywhere. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 652 Registered: 01-2007 |
The furthest I remember walking as a kid was to the rail road tracks at Conner and E Warren. This is from about Balbuck Park. I let my kids walk as far as they want, as long as I know the route they are going to take, and where they are going. I think kids walk less than they ever did, just because of the way the suburbs are set up. All my friends lived in an 8 block radius, so walking was the order of the day. Now friends are scattered over several cities, so you have to drive them. But now they are older (17 and 13) so my oldest can drive himself. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1776 Registered: 10-2003 |
"I think everyone is just a little to paranoid. Why would you not let your kid walk? It is no more dangerous today then 20 years ago." I think it's a LOT more dangerous than it was 20 years ago, especially in urban centers in the States. You're speaking from a Canadian viewpoint; cities are much safer in Canada. "Really. I don't want to sound rude. But what do people think is so bad today. There are not people waiting on every corner looking to rob or steal a kid." Yes, there are. Don't be naive. It happens all the time. There are all kinds of predators out there. I found out a little while ago that the elementary-school teacher who lives down the street from me was arrested for dealing drugs. And this is in a supposedly-safe, middle-class suburb. "And the more parents shelter their kids and don't teach them street smarts, the worse off these kids are when they grow up." Teaching your kids street smarts is different from protecting them from imminent crime and violence. "And it has to do with parents sheltering their kids way to much." No, I think it all reflects a general realization on the part of parents that society is less sane, less friendly, less civil, and less well-mannered than it once was. There's a realization that life has become accelerated and in-your-face, and parents don't want their kids in danger. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 318 Registered: 10-2003 |
suburbs have instilled a deep and abiding fear in people. the public realm is something to be avoided and traversed only with an enclosed personal vehicle. streetsmarts are not understood to be a commodity, because the public realm is not valued. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 654 Registered: 01-2007 |
Detourdetroit..."English motherf...er, Do you speak it???" | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1777 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ha! http://www.ebaumsworld.com/sou ndboards/play/1862/ | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2348 Registered: 10-2003 |
When I was young, living on the east side of Detroit, I walked and rode miles (up to 10, I think, was probably the furthest) to get to places (the mall, the rec center, a friend's house). My parents never had a problem with it as long as they knew where I was going and I called them when I got to my destination and again when I was on my way home. My boys attended private school for both elementary and high school, so the kids came from nearby and from very far away, so often we did have to drive them to and from their friends' homes that might be 10 or 20 miles or further away in order for them to socialize with classmates. While we was always concerned about our boys (now 19 and 21) walking or riding their bikes for a distance, we never stopped them from doing so when it was a reasonable distance. And with cell phones, they could call more readily to let us know that they arrived safely. It didn't always happen so efficiently (forgot to call, cell phone turned off, etc.), but it worked out OK. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 582 Registered: 07-2004 |
Fury13 most people are in the suburbs, and there is nothing to worry about with having your kid walking around. If it was the ghetto its a different story. But it is not. A teacher dealing drugs. Yeah its not good, but really its not like they were doing anything to the kids. It not good, but that is not a good excuse for keeping kids indoors  It just is not as dangerous out as people think. And if you have a problem with society, then work to fix it. But overall I just can't stand there and say that its this war zone that kids can't stroll around in. It is just not that scary. And if you think it is that scary, then you might as well go to all your neighbours and tell them they are criminals. Because those are the only people your kids would pass strolling the suburb. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 336 Registered: 10-2005 |
It's funny how most parents tell their children to be paranoid of strangers when in fact most damage to children is done by immediate family members or close friends. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1778 Registered: 10-2003 |
OK, Mike, I assume you have kids. If you don't yet, you may find that your mind will change once you have them. I was actually talking about kids' safety today in the city of Detroit, not the suburbs. They are two different animals. But, as parents, it all comes down to setting boundaries that we feel comfortable with, whatever they are. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 319 Registered: 10-2003 |
urban areas are safer than they were twenty years ago. look at any report on crime trends. that is not to say urban areas are all safe places, or don't need to improve their quality of life (our d is a case in point). but ain't no place safe, my friends...i wonder how many parents in columbine felt safe and secure letting their kids walk to school that day. my point is that perception of crime and lack of safety is complicated by the fact that so many of us live in environments where we don't experience a healthy interaction with the public world. the trust that parents may have had in earlier times because they knew the neighbors, the shop owner on the corner, etc. and had a vested interest in the public good has eroded. we tend to live more insulated, paranoid lives and our kids have suffered for it. geez, bullet i like your photos, but i never told you so! (Message edited by detourdetroit on June 17, 2007) | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 81 Registered: 11-2006 |
I agree with miketoronto, it has become, almost silly, how fearful we have become as a society. I live in Kansas City right now while I go to school, and people I work with at my suburban hospital are always saying, "Oh, isn't it dangerous to live there?". Please, it's no more dangerous than growing up in Plymouth. The dangers are different but still there. I remind them that I am more likely to be injured or die in a traffic accident outside my suburban hospital than I am to be a victim of violent crime. Recently we had a 18 y/o girl who was kidnapped and killed from outside a suburban Target. Now, every woman at work is talking about how they just don't feel safe anymore. There are 2.5 million people in the region. 1 young lady was kidnapped. The odd are in your favor this won't happen to you. The news and it's penchant for crime reporting has caused many people to think that the country is more dangerous than ever. It's just not true. Crime reporting on the news has increased exponentially, while actual crime in many areas has decreased. It's our perception of crime that is the bread and butter of the suburban argument. Move out to the fringe of civilization, build a large house on 2.3 acres, and you'll be safe. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1781 Registered: 10-2003 |
"urban areas are safer than they were twenty years ago." Oh yeah, I'd enjoy a walk around the neighborhoods at 7 Mile and Gratiot much more now than I would have 20 years ago. Yeah, sure. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1782 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Move out to the fringe of civilization, build a large house on 2.3 acres, and you'll be safe." Actually, I'd need more like 30 acres. | ||
Spitcoff Member Username: Spitcoff Post Number: 105 Registered: 03-2004 |
its the pussification of America. we are raising a generation of kids who all have been coddled by there parents. When I was a kid i would take off on my bike on saturday morning and not come back till 8 or 9 at night. Id go from my parents house in palmer woods up to royal oak etc. and guess what i never had a fucking helmet on either. I turned out ok. I think its horrible that parents wouldn't let there kids out of their sights today | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1784 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think there have always been parents who set reasonable boundaries for their kids, and there have always been parents who didn't give a damn where their kids were. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2006 |
I had concerned, interested parents. They let me go where I wanted to longer trips, so long as they knew the route I was taking and agreed to call them when I got there. I used to ride my bicycle from our home in Plymouth to my grandmother's in Northville, and my other grandparents' in Dearborn. What my parents understood was that they had to take steps to protect us, but they also had to allow us to learn to function as independent people. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1066 Registered: 06-2006 |
I would bike everywhere and, like spitcoff, stay gone for the whole day. My son also did the same thing when he was young (he's 20). He never wore a helmet (even while extreme BMXing...he had the helmet, he just never wore it). I could usually find him since kids are creatures of habit. I worried more about him being hit by a car than I worried about a stranger taking him. I taught him right from wrong and what to do in certain situations. I didn't let him go far until he was older (8 or 9). He was always at the park (with friends), riding around, playing hockey/ball, or out pushing the lawnmower trying to earn some extra cash. He had a paper route and would walk the wagon around delivering papers... It is sad that parents don't feel comfortable letting their kids experience life and the freedoms that come with being a kid. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 337 Registered: 10-2005 |
I agree completely with Spitcoff---you couldn't have said it better. Parents are coddling kids even into the college years. The dangers were there and will always be there. And, kids raised a bit more independently can overcome them more easily. | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 67 Registered: 04-2007 |
Totally agreed Spitcoff and Jjw! I will say crime in general has become a lot less, uh, safe. What did you have to worry about back then. The mafia? they wouldnt hurt you without a reason. Now all the gangs care about is money. Let your kids go to the park and have fun. they need to grow up without you sometimes. If you don't we'll have a bunch of 30 year olds afraid to walk down the street. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 656 Registered: 01-2007 |
Thanks for the sound board linkage Fury13. I was just trying to make sense of Detourdetroits comment, although it was cleared up in the next posting. Thanks for the complement, as well, Detourdetroit. I would like to add, true there is no place 100% safe from the boogie man, at least we can give the kids a fighting chance. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 227 Registered: 06-2005 |
How safe is it for a child to live an inactive childhood and risk becoming obese? | ||
Old_southwest Member Username: Old_southwest Post Number: 168 Registered: 07-2005 |
It's up to us parents to protect our kids as much as possible. Maybe we're more cautious now because it has become easier to learn about events in our world. News travels faster and farther than it did in the 70's. Growing up in SW Detroit in the 70's and 80's I was allowed to walk by myself for blocks. We were allowed to go trick or treating with our friends and siblings before we were 10 years old. I rode my bike to the river to go fishing with my friends. It might not really be worse now. But I think we just hear about more of the crime. Sure, everything has changed. Some areas really are worse and some might be better. I do know that my old neighborhood seems worse. Things happened there in the last 20 years that never happened in my first 20 years. But I still have family that lives there and they raise their kids just my parents raised us. They do keep them a little closer though. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1033 Registered: 09-2006 |
My mom swore I was going to be snatched at any moment so I couldn't leave the block alone until I was about 15 or 16. Good times. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 662 Registered: 01-2007 |
I said a 'fighting chance', Fishtoes2000. That means physical interaction, not a video game. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1748 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: LOL quote: Metro Detroit as whole is not any more dangerous than it was 20 years ago, it's just that the metro area has spread out, so that the higher crime areas that have always been around have also spread out to include areas such as 7 & Gratiot. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 1000 Registered: 01-2006 |
When my boys were little, we wouldn't let them walk out of sight. Call me a "helicopter parent," accuse me of "over-sheltering," say whatever you want, but we were responding to our perception of the "relative safety" of our immediate neighborhood, and, obviously, we didn't deem it to be all that safe. So, say whatcha want, but they are still around to judge it for themselves. And Ray1936? I had a Hawthorne, too. I didn't know that they were a Ward product, but I'm not surprised, since my dad liked that store. I liked the bike a lot, until some fuckmonkey stole it from outside the Eastgate Cunningham's store. Rode it so much, I had calves like granite, buddy. | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1112 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:Standard argument made by paranoid, over-protective parents. Instead of an argument for Fury's point, I think it's a more convincing argument not to have kids, because they will turn a normal, sane person into a basket case. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2426 Registered: 07-2004 |
This is interesting and all but it really come down to what each individual is comfortable with.The idea that twenty years ago it was no different then it is now is not true...........now forty years ago or fifty years ago the world was moving at a slower pace.More mothers were at home and neighborhoods were more active. There were bridge clubs and neighborhood kid games.........but that changed. I make no judgment on what was good and what was bad only that it changed. What some of you w/o kds don't get is that we were not only worried about predators but of simple things you all may not think about.....running in front of a car.......attacked by dog(s) getting lost.......all valid concerns and certainly not the manifestations of some overwrought parent. So it comes down to what each parent is comfortable with.I know this, a kid that knows he/she is accountable and is being watched is likely going to be more resourceful in a compromised situation...............and oh yeah it is entertaining to read of how the middle aged forumers road their bikes all over Detroit but that has little or nothing to do with the world today. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 446 Registered: 12-2006 |
Here are some facts. 1. Kids today in America are morbidly obese in astonishing numbers because their overworried parents drive them everywhere. They do not walk; they do not bicycle; they do not exercise. "Exercise" to today's child is a long video-game session. Public health officials warn that the current generation of children may be the first in US history to have a shorter life expectancy than the generation of its parents. 2. The predator down the street is the modern bogeyman. There were creeps 100 years ago, and sixty years ago, and twenty years ago, and there are creeps today. The difference is that with modern media, a creep in Topeka can scare the hell out of parents in Warren, Michigan. A child is no more likely to be abducted by a stranger in 2007 than he was in 1957. So here is what we have: a modern American parent will "protect" his or her child by keeping him or her in sight, driving him everywhere and allowing him to turn into a modern little Augustus Gloop, with diabetes by adolescence and bad health all his life. The parent is doing this ostensibly to protect the child from the very slight risk of some monster jumping out at him from under a bed. We have become a nation of paranoid imbeciles, and our children are suffering for our insanity. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1787 Registered: 10-2003 |
Professorscott, I totally disagree. It's a meaner, more ego- and gratification-centered world than it was 50 years ago. Sophistication and civility are on the decline; figuratively, the barbarians are at the gate. We are on our way back to the paradigm of Thomas Hobbes. I do believe that kids need more exercise and exposure to the outdoor world; however, letting them roam at will is not the best or safest way to accomplish that. (Message edited by Fury13 on June 18, 2007) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 447 Registered: 12-2006 |
Life, Hobbes said, is nasty, brutish and short. You're right Fury; our kids' lives are likely to be shorter compared to ours. But not for the reasons you suspect. At what age do we allow someone to go outside and not be watched? 25? 40? How would you handle it? My oldest daughter is sixteen; she is free to move about the world on her own. I have given her advice, and boundaries (generous ones). My youngest daughter is nine, almost ten; her boundaries are much stricter but I still do not have eyes on her at all times. How else do they learn? Friends, do you know that nearly all sexual abuse suffered by minors is at the hands of an authority figure or someone known to them? Go look this up; this is not my opinion, these are facts. Exactly what is it we are afraid of? | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 537 Registered: 04-2007 |
I know professor but I am a pain in the -ss to my kids anyway. (Message edited by michigan on June 18, 2007) | ||
Frumoasa Member Username: Frumoasa Post Number: 19 Registered: 03-2007 |
There wasn't much interesting to walk to around my home, only friends' houses, but I could go up to a mile away, and I walked a neighbor's dog every afternoon starting when I was 10 or 11. As long as my parents knew what I was doing and I made it home on time, I was fine. Around my home, I would feel more comfortable letting an older child walk south or east of my home as opposed to north or west. South of me is downtown Hamtramck, which is well lit and there are always people on the street, east of me are the shops on Conant, which is also a bustling area. There aren't too many pedestrians and stores to go into if there is a problem to the north and west of me. Also the advent of cell phones is a good thing, because if there is a problem, they can quickly call home. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1047 Registered: 02-2006 |
Depends where you live. I live in a good neighborhood, so I'd let my kids go wherever they wanted, once they got to a certain age of course. Younger than that, and they get to go to the park and the store and any public transit they need to get to school, but that's it. |
