  Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 87 Registered: 04-2007 |
Quote from Seattle P-I article: "Downtowns wither and die when drugs, trash, gangs and bloodshed take over. Visitors stop coming. Neighbors move away. Shoppers opt to spend dollars in more amenable places such as Bellevue or the refurbished Northgate Mall. Small businesses pack up and split. The last thing anyone wants is for beautiful Seattle to permanently transform into a dingy Detroit with a downtown that's an unsafe eyesore." http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/ jamieson/327228_robert11.html | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4797 Registered: 10-2003 |
Another ignorant jackass trying to keep it real. Only this time, the writer is no Newt. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1661 Registered: 10-2003 |
"The last thing anyone wants is for beautiful Seattle to permanently transform into a dingy Detroit with a downtown that's an unsafe eyesore." Dear Sir, I would like to express my concern over your choice to so flippantly use Detroit in this negative light. Please remember, this is a place where fellow countrymen of yours live and work. Downtown Detroit is an increasingly beautiful and interesting place, with developments abound, a beautiful brand new riverfront, and entertainment options galore. Your football team was recently here playing in the Superbowl, which everybody agrees went off magnificently. While the city certainly has its share of problems, it is not helped when people like yourself publish such negative comments without so much as an explanation or afterthought. Thank you, Proud in the D. SENT. | ||
Rockcity2windycity Member Username: Rockcity2windycity Post Number: 186 Registered: 11-2005 |
Wasn't downtown Detroit just named one of the safer downtowns in the nation? I guess whenever you need a bad example you can just shit on Detroit. | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 34 Registered: 07-2007 |
This article, if anything, really turned me off to Seattle. "We were exposed to hordes of disgusting homeless people, aggressively panhandling and harassing my family," So where on EARTH can you go, aside from say, North Korea, where there are no panhandlers?? Disgusting hordes? What an ASS. And who is this Uncle Tom writer? Bet he's never been to Detroit. Sorry. I'll stick with my city over these thin-skinned latte lovers. Sounds like they've all just had a little too much espresso. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6333 Registered: 02-2004 |
People bash cities all the time. Unless we don't fix our communities right away people will bash and our cities, including Detroit. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 272 Registered: 11-2003 |
As much as this guy is yet another wise-ass using downtown Detroit as a punching bag, if we did have more cops out, that would help perceptions. Downtown safety is a marketing and perception issue, and for the most part not an actual crime issue. The next project Penske needs to work on is getting a fund together to hire cops to walk downtown, sprinkled in with some horses. Although the clean downtown initiative and others have been great, Detroit Renaissance or other large business owners could do so much for the city if they throw in to pay for a set of cops for downtown, much like the Casinos do (as part of their agreements, they pay a stipend for a number of dedicated cops to patrol at the casino). It wouldn't take many - adding 8 or 10 on foot and 2-3 horses (horses for two reasons - they are VERY effective with crowd control and people LOVE to see them, have their kids feed them apples, etc, it's great for PR). That will also free resources at city hall to put whatever resources the DPD had to have paid for themselves downtown into the neighborhoods, so everyone wins. Kilpatrick can then say he's using public/private partnerships to help the neighborhoods, while helping downtown at the same time. That would be the ultimate development kickstart, and I bet you wouldn't need to use as many, if any incentives to get more people to invest. It's not like NY or Boston have low taxes - LOL! (Message edited by digitalvision on August 11, 2007) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1664 Registered: 10-2003 |
Recently read a story about the horse cops Digital. http://www.officer.com/online/ article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3 6856 "The Motor City Horse Force, a new, grassroots citizens organization committed to increasing the presence of mounted police in and around Metro Detroit, made its public debut today. The announcement of the new effort was made at the graduation ceremony of seven newly trained officers for the Wayne County Sheriff's Mounted Police Unit, held at the Michigan State Fairgrounds in Detroit. "The Wayne County Sheriff's Mounted Unit is the last mounted police unit left in Michigan," said Robert S. Raisch, local entrepreneur and retired USMC brigadier general who is leading the initiative. "The mission of the Motor City Horse Force is to raise public awareness of the benefits of mounted units and raise the funds to help expand the presence of these dynamic law enforcement duos in our community." | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9244 Registered: 09-2005 |
Having spent a fair amount of time in both downtowns, I will toss in my $.02: In downtown Seattle, old luxurious hotels are still used as old luxurious hotels. Same with old apartment buildings. Several old department stores (Nordstrom, etc) founded in Seattle still have their flagship stores open and thriving in their original or expanded downtown locations. I'll let someone else post the stats, but Seattle has a different ethnic mix with a large variety of groups, Detroit has one. Seattle has never held the title "murder capital", Detroit has consistently been at the top of crime/murder stats. In-town Seattle neighborhoods have skyrocketing prices, Detroit - well, you know. Seattle has a miserable street system, Detroit's is excellent in comparison. Public transportation in Seattle seems to be universally used, cars appear secondary but I've not had extensive experience in either city using public transportation. Seattle-ites seem to universally love the city and are willing to pay the higher price of living there, limiting their grumbling to the weather. They have ridden the ups and downs of the aircraft industry and even endured the indignity of Boeing moving to Chicago. Yet Seattle thrives. While the bashing may seem distasteful, learning from others mistakes is the American way and communicating about them is part of the culture and freedom we all enjoy. Detroiters could strive to be far more intuitive in this area. | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 88 Registered: 04-2007 |
Karl-- I have to agree. I spend a fair amount of time each year in Seattle, and there is a lot to like. It may be a matter of geography-- Seattle is the biggest city in a sparsely-populated Northwest region, crammed between Puget Sound and the mountains with no place to sprawl, really. It may be that Seattle/Tacoma is a smaller metro area with about 60% of the Greater Detroit region, thus fewer big-city problems. But it really is a very diverse and dense city with a vital core and busy livable neighborhoods. They have rough areas, like any city, but they are just that-- rough-- not destroyed. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 273 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks for telling me about them - I sent a small donation. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 766 Registered: 01-2004 |
No one is trying to say our Downtown is more developed then Seattle's. What this guy fails to notice is we're getting a whole lot better and we have great times downtown. Furthermore anyone that disparages this city will feel the internet wrath and in Jimmy Kimmel's case the TV wrath. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3547 Registered: 02-2005 |
We don't want Detroit or any other city to turn into a cloudy, depressing place with chain coffee shops on every corner and anti-establishment hippies running in the street... | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9246 Registered: 09-2005 |
Oh yeah Mackinaw, that's really the feeling you get in downtown Seattle - especially as you move in, out and around the flagship store of the Nordstrom chain. There's a lot more to successful major downtown than "having good times" - grocery & department stores, a diverse ethnicity and other services essential to everyday life are essential - not to mention a general feeling of safety and "it will never happen to me" without being unrealistic. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1670 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah, I certainly don't agree with bashing Seattle. It's a great city, no doubt. I just didn't care for his flippant use of Detroit when looking for an example of a crappy "dingy" city. He could have just as easily said "The last thing anyone wants is for beautiful Seattle to permanently transform into a dingy CITY with a downtown that's an unsafe eyesore." Instead, for no reason, he chose to insult Detroit. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 276 Registered: 11-2003 |
Seattle has some diversity (more diversity than the Detroit city proper), but it's really not THAT diverse. Seattle is 67% white, and no minority is above the 20% "flight zone" where the majority starts to become uncomfortable. To give an idea, by percentage and actual numbers there are more white people who live in Detroit city proper than there are black people who live in Seattle. When I think diversity by percentages and it being a bit more truly diverse (regardless of particular race's position by percentage), I think San Francisco. SF is 44% white, 32% Asian, 14% Hispanic, 7% African American and estimates peg it at 1 in 5 men being homosexual (according to Wikipedia). 39% of it's residents were not been born in this country. THAT is more like what diversity is. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9251 Registered: 09-2005 |
If SF defines "diverse", Detroit ain't. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1247 Registered: 09-2006 |
NYC defines diversity as there is no dominant majority at all in the city. And Bah, screw Seattle why worry about a city that isnt even half of our size even today. Once they grow up and become a big city then they can start commenting on other big cities but for now they should know their role. (Message edited by mayor_sekou on August 11, 2007) | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9252 Registered: 09-2005 |
Smaller and safer sounds good right about now. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1249 Registered: 09-2006 |
Bigger and safer sounds even better. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 609 Registered: 07-2004 |
Seattle has not been all glory. There was a time that Downtown Seattle was starting to decline just like most other American downtowns. However they were able to pull it out of decline and make it the focus of the region again. But Seattle has faced all the issues other cities have faced. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1381 Registered: 12-2006 |
The only thing Seattle is missing is a Mt. Rainier eruption. I really enjoyed going to Seattle though. Great scenery, great location, and believe it or not, great weather. Never gets really hot and the rain isn't a big deal since it mostly mists. Has a really nice downtown, and the underground tours there are interesting. Too bad Detroit doesn't have underground sidewalks. That would make a great tour. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3554 Registered: 02-2005 |
Karl, my comments were joking, to illustrate the stupidity of city-bashing. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 767 Registered: 01-2004 |
Karl, do us all a favor and move back to your beloved Seattle. You can be unemployed and play on your laptop there as well. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 4070 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am puzzled why this thread wandered off into comparing [and sometimes running down both] the great cities of Seattle and Detroit. The meaning of the article is rather straight forward -- the writer is embarrassingly uninformed -- ditto for the editor who let it go by. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 5698 Registered: 11-2004 |
I couldn't agree more with Lowell here. Seattle has its unique charms and its eyesores and Detroit has its own too. Why compare?? I sure as heck will not bash Seattle or any other city to make us feel better, but then conversely I wish the writer of the article would be as so informed and kind to do the same. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1347 Registered: 04-2006 |
Seattle also has a nearly identical population density as current day Detroit. I'm actually a little surprised at that (I thought Seattle would be more dense). I have never been there but I do have friends who live there and nearly all say it isn't very diverse. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 760 Registered: 10-2003 |
Seattle just blasts past Detroit in nearly every quality of life measure. Their downtown is burgeoning and flourishing in all sectors: hotel, office, convention, retail, and residential. When downtowns get as vibrant and worldly as Seattle's, its residents can unfortunately condescend to the not so fortunate american cities. Although in defense of Detroit, the article's author's condescending remarks were ignorant. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3561 Registered: 02-2005 |
Interesting, Ihearthed. My guess is that it is a very high-density core, surrounded by more suburban-like new neighborhoods within the city limits, as most of its population was created since the 1950s. Plus there is a fair amount of terrain jutting through the city making some areas undevelopable, no? Much the opposite of Detroit, which has pretty slight gradations in density as you move across the city, and few land forms. | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 90 Registered: 04-2007 |
Mackinaw-- Seattle's downtown core is very dense, but like most downtowns, it lacks residents. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people who live there, but the current mayor wants to increase the downtown population by 10,000 over the next few years. The inner ring neighborhoods are mostly made up of houses that range from 1900 to 1940 vintage, many craftsman style homes, and many with no off-street parking. The next ring out, say seven miles from downtown are postwar vintage. All of these areas have seen lots of infill building in the last few years, especially closer to downtown. Not nearly as many suburbs as here. |
