  Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 411 Registered: 05-2006 |
Revived Cobo plan needs to shed costs | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 435 Registered: 03-2005 |
Well we need something. I was in LA last month talking to some people who would love nothing more than for the LA Auto show to steal all of Detroit's thunder. Detroit, the world's motor capital, needs to keep that title. | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 782 Registered: 02-2004 |
The upgrade will probably happen, but we have a history of procrastinating until things get too bad where we HAVE to change something. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1224 Registered: 10-2003 |
that climate controlled, elevated walkway over hart plaza IMO is absolutely ridiculous. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9830 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Agreed. I just don't understand LBP's issue with the hotel tax. As someone that travels a lot there are hotel taxes in almost every major metro area that pays for this type of stuff. Why does he have an issue with taxes being levied on hotels were most of the revenue comes from out of the region. What is sad is that people think that LBP is saving them taxes when very, very little of the hotel tax comes from the pockets of SE Michigan residents. When the hell will someone in the media call him out on this? | ||
Elsuperbob Member Username: Elsuperbob Post Number: 38 Registered: 03-2007 |
Personally I think the center needs to be removed from the river and built on the outskirts of downtown. For example one of the new centers that impresses me is Milan's. It sits outside Milan proper on a former industrial site so it doesn't destroy the fabric of the city itself. It also allows it to be one of the largest in the world. And best of all it doesn't try to be a fake city on the edge of a city but just a convention center. http://www.newyorker.com/archi ve/2006/07/31/060731crsk_skyli ne I don't think a new Cobo should be outside of Detroit but at least move it off of the valuable river front and fabric of the city. There are plenty of industrial sites to make a million square foot facility. Like the New Yorker says about Milan's "They know better than to plant something in the heart of a city which doesn’t fit there." | ||
Elsuperbob Member Username: Elsuperbob Post Number: 39 Registered: 03-2007 |
Jt, I wholly agree with you on LBP. It's all about playing the constituents and not really having to do anything for real. A hotel tax seems obvious. No, instead let the people of the state gamble their money away to pay for it. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1852 Registered: 06-2006 |
"When the hell will someone in the media call him out on this?" He sort of called himself out on it...there was an article earlier this year where he was quoted as saying: "I understand it's not coming from you or me," he said of Ficano's proposal to extend hotel and liquor taxes. "But the public has a perception that we're being taxed" to support expansion of Cobo. "I'm a politician. I do have a constituency to respect." So his position on the hotel tax is more about maintaining his image with his constituency, which is shitty but understandable...all politicians want to be reelected, first and foremost Still, I'm glad that someone is calling out Ficano on the $1 billion price tag...that's way too much for a project of this kind... And I still think Patteron's idea about incorporating a casino or at least a mini casino into the new convention center makes the most sense...it will pay for a large portion of the project and make it a more attractive place to hold conventions...a state referendum would have to be passed but I think it would have a good chance of passing | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6351 Registered: 02-2004 |
Is the Mayor of White Detroit L.B. Patterson is shaking hands of peace to the Hip Hip mayor KILLpatrick so that the new Cobo expansion plan would kick-off? | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 804 Registered: 11-2003 |
"No, instead let the people of the state gamble their money away to pay for it." Many people already are. State lottery and casinos all over the state. It's not like this is virgin territory when it comes to gambling. | ||
Elsuperbob Member Username: Elsuperbob Post Number: 40 Registered: 03-2007 |
I understand it's nothing new but to use gambling in whatever form seems to be the only solution they come up with anymore. I mean let people gamble if they want but we should be coming up with other revenue sources as well. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3022 Registered: 10-2003 |
I can't believe they're even talking about this. Of course, the powers-that-be can come together to build a publicly subsidized facility that is practically guaranteed to bleed money. And why? The damned auto show. In the meantime, meaningful improvements like public transit are shot down as "too expensive", even though such an investment has shown to generate (tax-paying) development in virtually every other city. Do Ficano and Patterson live in a vacuum? For once, the Big Diamond appears to be acting more rational than anyone else. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5122 Registered: 08-2004 |
I agree with you Thejesus... it would be a great way to help pay for it. But the other 3 casinos would fight that "tooth and nail". If the expansion is only going to cost 1/2 billion, then that's all they should be asking for. Get rid of the skyway to RenCen (they already have a People Mover), although a skywalk over to the Ponchartrain (whatever it's going to be called) can't be that expensive. Maybe the hotel can foot some (or most) of the bill. As far as moving the location of Cobo, I think that is a non-issue. They already decimated an entire warehouse district in the late 1950's to put it there (and wiped out some more of downtown in the late 1980's when they expanded northward). The cost of demo'ing it would be astronomical... when you factor in all the freeway/People Mover/Roadway infrastructure. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 522 Registered: 04-2006 |
NO skywalks. i hate skywalks. they suck passengers out of transit, suck pedestrians off the street, and in the case of the hart plaza walk, they would look SILLY. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1225 Registered: 10-2003 |
bob; i think detroit's a little far away from that right now. while i do agree with you on principle, cobo is far too important for downtown businesses right now. since we don't have a viable mass transportation system, there wouldn't be an easy way for people to commute from a new convention center and downtown. so, walking distance is important. also, i don't think downtown could stand on it's own right now. many of the hotels downtown depend on the conventions. if you move cobo away from the core, more than likely new hotels would be built around it. there also isn't much of a demand for the real-estate that it's on. yes, it is a prime location, but odds are that it would sit vacant for a long time before anyone could develop the property. i mean, just take a look at the east riverfront for reference. but i do agree with your points and hope that we can do that someday. maybe an integrated renovated packard plant (hotels, stores, residences) and new convention center? eh? [i can dream, at least.] perhaps the next expansion: 30 years? | ||
Elsuperbob Member Username: Elsuperbob Post Number: 41 Registered: 03-2007 |
Rsa, I agree with all your points also. Maybe, like you said, a few decades from now with hopefully some transit up and running and more funds available. Another big part of Milan's project was extending its subway out to the middle of nowhere where they built the new Fiera. I was thinking Packard, too, but it really is tiny as far as what could fit on one floor. I was looking in the other direction at the old Clark St. plant site. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 414 Registered: 05-2006 |
The idea of a “climate-controlled enclosed walkway connecting to the Renaissance Center” seems like such an unnecessary expense that I wonder if it was included to have something to cut later on. A skywalk to the Sheraton Riverside isn’t a bad idea; however, since it would really only benefit the guests of that hotel, the majority of the costs should be the hotels’. Connecting the buildings along the north side of Jefferson Ave. is a possibility at some future point, but such skywalk systems generally have shops along them. And as Andylinn said, they draw pedestrians off the street. As for the expansion itself, I would rather see Cobo expanded north, over Congress instead of demolishing Cobo Arena. As the city continues to shrink, we may find increasing uses for more of these modest sized venues. Cobo could expand into the two blocks bounded by 2nd St., Cass Ave. Fort St. and Congress St. (outlined in red in the picture) far cheaper and quicker than along the riverfront.  All that would be lost in those two blocks are a warehouse, two parking structures and a nondescript office building (455 W. Fort St.). The county already has an agreement to purchase the larger parking structure. Such an expansion would take the pressure off for a few years until Joe Louis Arena can be razed for an even larger expansion. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 174 Registered: 10-2006 |
Remove the JLA and cobo arena, expand in both directions and have a nice large hallway with big glass windows on the riverfront side | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 542 Registered: 08-2006 |
Competition is rising in far flung areas from Detroit..... Kimball Twp near Port Huron has a plan on the books that includes a 400,000 sq foot convention center and casino....Port Huron is also planning a Casino! http://www.thetimesherald.com/ apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70816/NEWS01/708160301/1002 Chesterfield Twp may be home to a smaller 100,000 sq foot convention center as well. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0806/SUB/708060323/-1/TOC | ||
Abracadabra Member Username: Abracadabra Post Number: 58 Registered: 04-2007 |
Why not just move the NAIAS to the former Novi Expo. You can rent a space for $49! Really though, it would be nice to have an expansion as well as some updates. Every time I go to the Auto Show I can't help but notice what an ugly place it is. Would anybody really be upset if that nasty Cobo brand carpet were just a plain color or a pattern? | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 438 Registered: 05-2006 |
Auto show floats $8M Cobo add-on Does anyone know the details of this proposal? Obviously Sharon Terlep, the author of this article, doesn't. | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2004 |
I never understood why they didn't expand a lower (street) level floor under the part of the 89 expansion that runs along the street level on Congress... always seemed like waise of space to me. |
