 
Wilus1mj
Member
Username: Wilus1mj
Post Number: 218
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 1:59 pm: |    |
How many police, firetrucks, or ambulances would 10 million buy.....let private investment invest if they want to--you can't force it. |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1357
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:00 pm: | |
^^Completely agree. |
Jfried
Member
Username: Jfried
Post Number: 1038
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
Didn't SVM lose several of their Harmonie Park properties to forclosure?
I'd like to hear some real examples of government involvement tainting, or ruining the "cool" vibe of redeveloping neighborhoods. So many people state this as fact, when there are very few examples supporting the theory. |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 142
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:32 pm: | |
Thejesus,
I stated "racist attitudes"; I didn't call you a racist.
I appreciate your argument over "authenticity" and agree it would be nice if things happened organically, but sometimes ideas need official support- what's wrong with that? I don't want to see the city turn into artificial pockets of "It's a Small World", but I still disagree that just because a city is represented by largely one ethnicity that they don't need to have their culture celebrated. Think in terms of how business might be good for the city.
"...but the message of appreciation is coming from the black city government...I think it goes without saying that they appreciate their own cultural and history..."
Hmmm...is this part of your "authenticity" argument? I don't quite understand how that fits in; do you mean it would be more authentic if it came from someone like L. Brooks Patterson? Why is it wrong for a "black government" to lend support in appreciating their cultural contributions?
Really, please elaborate; we idiots need all the 'splaining we can handle. |
Motorcitydave
Member
Username: Motorcitydave
Post Number: 81
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:45 pm: | |
I agree Wilus1mj...
... and if those funds are set aside for downtown development only, I can think of many other areas that could use funds for a redevelopment kick start... NOT an area that is right in between the stadium district and Greektown (I think it will take care of itself in that location), and also already has businesses in it... how about one that is not directly in between 2 of the busiest districts downtown, and NOT one that already has quite a few bars & restaurants, and 2 hotels within it's 1 block radius, I'd say that area doesn't really need that jump start as much as others....lol. |
Missnmich
Member
Username: Missnmich
Post Number: 606
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:46 pm: | |
Government involvement taints the area and takes away from the "cool","natural" vibe you get from ethnic neighborhoods around the country. This is going to feel forced and I doubt it works.
It worked on Beale St. |
Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster
Post Number: 2151
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:52 pm: | |
OH my God, you people.
If the area was developing so well on it's own, don't you think it'd be a little further along? Plus doesn't the DEGC actually OWN some of the buildings? I don't think it's out of line for the city to use development funds in an area that is not only manageable in scope and primed for success, but in which they also have a vested real estate interest. |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 143
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:59 pm: | |
THANK you, Dialh.... |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 405
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 3:02 pm: | |
Beale Street was also a recreation of what once was, not a situation where they recreated a district in another part of town....its like the Cavern Club in Liverpool.....the real one is under a parking garage. |
Detroit313
Member
Username: Detroit313
Post Number: 461
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 6:51 pm: | |
Ass backwards if you asked me. Detroit has its priorities all messed up. Why not use that money to stimulate Cass Corridor. Last I checked the corridor was MORE black than HP!
<313> |
Pistonian_revolution
Member
Username: Pistonian_revolution
Post Number: 90
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 7:17 am: | |
the truth is that there is never going to be another paradise valley, the way it was back before the detroit plan that create 375 and other urban renewal projects. so, i think the notion of "recreating" paradise valley is trite at best, and patronizing to the struggles and proud heritage that black detroiters can rightfully claim.
its never going to come back. hastings street is never going to bustling the way it was. renaming harmonie park as paradise valley seems like nothing more than a gesture to our history and maybe a marketable name for a commercial district as johnlodge said. |
Jimg
Member
Username: Jimg
Post Number: 913
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 9:08 am: | |
PV was the only black business/entertainment district in Detroit at the time. It was, in short, a piece of black history in Detroit. All of the buildings downtown were segregated or at least discouraged black patronage. Even our beloved Tigers and their stadium were not open and friendly. PV offered clubs - the notorious 'black and tans' - that welcomed whites. Blacks could go to most ballrooms on Monday eves - kitchen mechanics night - and most other clubs, unless they were in a black neighborhood were not welcoming - indeed many were downright hostile.
I assume that those Forum members who are strong in their belief that history should be preserved, or at least acknowledged support this proposal?
Is this correct?
I know that geographically PV is basically kaput, but what it was, and the incredible music contained therein should be celebrated. I think the idea is wonderful. Late, but wonderful. |
Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster
Post Number: 2156
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 12:36 pm: | |
Please note, they are not trying to recreate Paradise Valley. Just like Asian Village is not supposed to create an actual Chinatown district.
It's meant to be an area inspired by the art & musical heritage of Paradise Valley. |
Cgunn
Member
Username: Cgunn
Post Number: 88
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:31 pm: | |
"We are a hotbed of African American entertainment," says Detroit Metro Convention and Visitors Bureau spokeswoman Renee Monforton. "We promote downtown as a multicultural destination and its amazing various pockets of ethnicity."
MLive Article |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1948
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 5:10 am: | |
^Good article...but honestly, if this were a good idea, wouldn't it have already come into being on its own at some point during the past HALF CENTURY since the original Paradise Valley was demolished?
This is not the kind of thing government should be getting involved in...if it hasn't already created itself, then there's probably not a market for it, and therefore forcing it into existence will end with either failure of these businesses or with the government having to subsidize them so they can survive |
Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix
Post Number: 463
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:57 am: | |
Whats wrong with government getting involved in creating a "entertaiment district" within downtown Detroit?
Goverment surely got involved in creating a entertainment district in Downtown Hollywood, A hulk of a theater/ shopping complex built right on Hollywood and Highland.
Seen as a failure due to low foot traffic and no comperehensive theme, Now with an adjacent subway station within the complex, a re-designed frontage, future resident condo conversions in walking distance will MAKE THIS gOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZED COMPLEX A HIT.
If Paradise Valley tribute can create at least a few jazz, blues, retail, some colorful culture, hot artistic lofts dwellers, poetry slams, mom an pop shops, we can't go wrong but honestly we are in no position to block this type of development |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1470
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:06 am: | |
Say it with me.... "marketing". M-a-r-k-e-t-i-n-g. They are using "Paradise Valley" as a marketing scheme. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9872
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:30 am: | |
How much jas the city spent over the years subsidizing the DIA and the zoo? Why don't the same people get upset about these subsidies?
Afterall, if the DIA was any good it would be able to manage on its own, correct? |
Aoife
Member
Username: Aoife
Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 9:01 am: | |
The DIA argument is lame. Most art museums get subsidies from their cities.The DIA has suggested donations for admission, making it possible for people who don't have a lot of extra money to enrich themselves culturally- would you rather have them charge $20 to get in like the MOMA does?
What is being discussed is a subsidized business district, which will benefit business owners, not the general public.
That being said, any new business in Detroit would be welcome. It would be nice if they could locate it in an area that needs a little more help, though. Harmonie Park is an area that seems to already be doing fine. There are vast swaths of the CBD just waiting for something like this, or like someone mentioned, the Cass Corridor up near Wayne. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1951
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 9:03 am: | |
Jt1:
Many museums and zoos are not profit-making institutions and they also have an educational value that the public has a great interest in maintaining...so it's not unusual for government to subsidize them...
Now, subsidizing a select few bars and restaurants on the other hand....
But are you saying you'd be ok with Detroit having to subsidize these bars and restaurants if they end up being money losing endeavors? |
Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster
Post Number: 2158
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 9:20 am: | |
I would like to point out that there has been no discussion of the city "subsidizing a select few bars and restaurants."
Unless by subsidizing you mean making improvements to the area, putting money into buildings the city actually owns, and marketing the area a certain way.
In which case I think you should be a lot more irritated about what happened for the Super Bowl, the ultimate white person event. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1954
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 10:11 am: | |
Dial:
You're getting way off track...read my post #1948 above |
Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix
Post Number: 464
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 10:12 am: | |
Detroit is a city with rich history. Then we fell...hard.
This is a move in the right direction because it allows this rich history to be highlighted.
Visitors/Tourists will stay at MGM Grand casino hotel, Motor City Casino Hotel, Book Caddilac, Hiltons, and MArriots. Grektown casino Hotel
They will see a Tigers game, gamble all day all night, see the red wings, lions
Drink at our great bars/restaurants as well as the cluster of future restaurants.
They will stroll through greektown, get sum flaming cheese, Gaze at the river walk, tretch through GM World,
Dinner at the Book Cadillac,
Then discover Harmony Park, where they can step back in time at see how motown went global; art, music, culture, Black love,
i can see a Motown cafe finally making its midwest debut in this area,
Shiiiit who knows, why not pick up hits-ville USA Motown Museum and move it to one of the empty lots in Harmony Park? Aretha Franklin is more likely to open Arethas House Soul food in this area with a strong plan then otherwise.
Im looking for P.Diddy (Sean Puffy Colmes) to open one of his chain restaurants here,
a Magic Johnsons Fridays could front Broadway.
This could step Detroits entertainment portfolio waaay up. |
Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix
Post Number: 467
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 3:17 pm: | |
Im mostly excited to see in-fill work on several empty properties in an around harmony park.
A district of such should not be placed in a undeveloped area. We have enough problems keeping our good stuff good, highly potential areas need anchors.. this is it |
Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix
Post Number: 470
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:26 pm: | |
next spring will be the testimony |
Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix
Post Number: 471
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 9:23 am: | |
several new retailers have opened shop in Harmony Park in the last few months,, new coffee shop, gym shoe shop, mani/pedi shop, mezzanine, |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1482
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 9:44 am: | |
^You really do crave those chains, don't you?
I remember rumors floating about 2 or 3 years ago that Puffy was planning to open a Justin's in Detroit. Obviously, it was just a rumor, but I think that establishment would be well patronized in Detroit.
ETA a link I pulled on it:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_26_37/ai_105160942
(Message edited by iheartthed on August 29, 2007) |
Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix
Post Number: 472
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 12:12 pm: | |
He among Magic are still in discussion on location location location.....The breaking point for more advanced development shall come as MGM settles in their new home. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1490
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 1:56 pm: | |
I'd like to believe that but 4 years is a long time to be discussing location. And the Magic theaters rumor has been floating since I was in high school. He's had to have built 10 theaters since then... so I'll believe it when I see it. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2109
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
I'd rather see locally-owned businesses in the area than chain franchises. A chain store/restaruant is, by definition, bland and boring. Next thing you know, we'll have a Fridays or a Red Robin downtown.
Ugh... do people actually patronize those places? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1491
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 2:10 pm: | |
Well, Justin's isn't really a chain... I don't know the correct term for it, but it's more of a novelty place like Michael Jordan's Steakhouse. There are only two Justin's open now (NYC and Atlanta), so the proposed Detroit location would be third. It would generate a great deal of media buzz if it were to ever materialize. Puffy has had a bit of presence in the Detroit area over the last year, so maybe it is still in the works... |
Crment
Member
Username: Crment
Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 2:24 pm: | |
The deal for Justin's was just about complete. A former basketball star and other investors were set to close on a lease at the former Intermezzo's location over a year ago. Allegedly, the landlord changed the deal at the last minute and demanded more money, so they walked away. |
Cgunn
Member
Username: Cgunn
Post Number: 95
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
There was a freep article on May 25th that expressed Magic opening a Theater downtown. He was suppose to open one on the riverfront, but was scrapped by Archer due to the location of the Casinos. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 371
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 2:46 pm: | |
another site was the old Motown bldg at 75 and Woodward (currently a loveley unadorned lot, if I'm not mistaken). Magic has been jerking Detroit's chain on a movieplex for lo ten years now. A megaplex somehow turned into a couple of drive-through Starbux, but it's the thought that counts.... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5231
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 3:12 pm: | |
I still think that the soon-to-be former MGM Casino building and parking structure would make an excellent Magic Johnson Theatre complex. The exuberant Art Deco exterior is perfect for such a use. They would just have to turn the former gaming spaces into theatres. And it's right off the freeway ramp.
Even though MGM spent over $200 million on that building and parking structure, there's NO WAY that they will ever recoup that money. For whatever use that property gets, MGM will only get pennies on the dollar that they invested into it. It might as well be for some use that retains the complex intact. No point in ripping down a $200+ million complex for a big box store or some other mundane use.
Also, the new Paradise Valley site uses the German spelling... HARMONIE PARK. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1493
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:26 pm: | |
Magic has been jerking Detroit's chain on a movieplex for lo ten years now. A megaplex somehow turned into a couple of drive-through Starbux, but it's the thought that counts....
LOL. Exactly... that's why I say seeing is believing in this instance. They got the Book Cadillac going faster than that. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:30 pm: | |
I still think that the soon-to-be former MGM Casino building and parking structure would make an excellent Magic Johnson Theatre complex. The exuberant Art Deco exterior is perfect for such a use.
That might require somebody besides him (or AMC rather). The MJ theaters I have seen usually aren't that glamorous, and the one in Harlem isn't well taken care of. |
Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix
Post Number: 473
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:46 pm: | |
people pleese ,lets not judge levels of progress based on the past 25 years. There were no casinos, waaaay more problems wit crime an safety downtown, no lofts or condo conversion, no campus m, no hard rock.... If I were magic i would wait till opening day of the casino hotels to seriously choose the best location. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1495
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:55 pm: | |
^The whole novelty of his theaters was to operate in underserved urban locations... so if downtown Detroit didn't fit the bill 10 years ago then I won't hold my breath about him coming any time soon. |
Cgunn
Member
Username: Cgunn
Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:14 pm: | |
^ lol
What about a Ilitch Owned Theater. Thier theaters are nice. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 200
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 12:19 pm: | |
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap /2007/08/30/ap4067464.html |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2136
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 12:25 pm: | |
"What about a Ilitch Owned Theater. Thier theaters are nice."
Yeah, the UA and Adams are well-maintained and thriving.
(Message edited by Fury13 on August 30, 2007) |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 59
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 8:03 pm: | |
I haven't seen any financial pro formas on the investment viability of a 10Mil. tax subsidy.
I find the Paradise Valley investment theory very speculative.
For $10 Million, I could hand out a dollar to everyone who walks through my business door and create more foot traffic and local spending than any government subsidy could produce. |
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