  Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 199 Registered: 03-2006 |
<humor> At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 mi/gal." Recently General Motors addressed this comment by releasing the statement "Yes, but would you want your car to crash twice a day?" and also noted the following consequences of GM imitating Microsoft: 1. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have to buy a new car. 2. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and you would just accept this, restart and drive on. 3. Occasionally, executing a maneuver would cause your car to stop and fail and you would have to re-install the engine. For some strange reason, you would accept this too. 4. You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you bought "Car95" or "CarNT". But, then you would have to buy more seats. 5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast, twice as easy to drive, but would only run on five percent of the roads. 6. The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft upgrades to their cars, which would make their cars run much slower. 7. The oil, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single "general car fault" warning light. 8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt. 9. The airbag system would say "are you sure?" before going off. 10. If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened. </humor> (Message edited by Catman_Dude on August 25, 2007) | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3041 Registered: 12-2005 |
Heh, and to turn it off you hit a "start" button. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 592 Registered: 05-2007 |
And the BSOD would be a feature.  | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1522 Registered: 10-2006 |
LOL, "the blue screen of death!" | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3043 Registered: 12-2005 |
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Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4809 Registered: 10-2003 |
lol Jimaz... | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 919 Registered: 10-2003 |
Every model change would mean your old car would promptly be outdated and unsupported. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 462 Registered: 02-2006 |
That's why I would bought an Apple, Instead of a Lemon! <313> | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 593 Registered: 05-2007 |
Service Packs, high-priority and optional updates, Genuine Advantage programs, and .NET. And then throw in the XBox 360 version of the BSOD, the infamous "Red RoL" (Ring of Light), or "Ring of Death" (take your pick).  You will have to UPS your vehicle to a Microsh1t Service Center for firmware repairs. Your vehicle may be replaced with a refurbished vehicle instead of repairing your original vehicle. It may take up to 6 weeks for repairs, at no cost to you of course (except the lost driving time). And you will receive many apologies and a free 1 month subscription to vehicle Live for your inconvenience. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 703 Registered: 10-2003 |
How about 80% to market! Which explains why we all have to down load Microsoft security patches! I recently had a high level discussion about why microsoft code hasn't been integrated into a vehicle. Basically, the computer systems supporting critical vehicle functions such as engine timing etc have to be solid as a rock! | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 595 Registered: 05-2007 |
DLL Hell would be hell on a vehicle. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 40 Registered: 07-2007 |
Catman_dude NICE post!, I thought Gates was smart. | ||
Blackhelicopter Member Username: Blackhelicopter Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2007 |
Leaving Microsoft in particular out of the comparison for a moment, if we look at the computer / software industry compared to autos, I still think software looks a little better. Computers / software have gone through several dramatic transformations: 1. Analog to digital 2. Room-size computers to micro-computers / pc's 3. The Internet All of these, in addition to Moore's law with processing / storage have led to computers that are millions / billions of times more powerful compared to computers that existed in the 1940's / 1950's. They are also ridiculously smaller (even the computer in a small cell-phone today is far more powerful than the best computer of the 1950's which would have taken up several large rooms). They are also far cheaper -- the computer in a cell phone is more powerful than a computer in the 1950's that would have cost tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars (and would have been slower). If we compare today's autos to those of 100 years ago, are today's even one thousand times faster? Do they use 1000 times less fuel? Do they use thousands of times less space? Are they thousands of times cheaper? Do they have thousands of times the space? And in terms of technological innovation, has there been a dramatic technology change in autos like the transformation from non-networked computers to the Internet which completely changed the purpose and power of computers / software and magnified their scale / power? Outside of yet-to-be mainstream electric vehicles, the same internal-combustion paradigm powers autos of the early 20th century and autos in the early 21st century. Now I'll admit that the constraints of transportation are bigger than that of the digital world (it's inherently easier to move information at close to the speed of light than to move large physical objects very quickly). But I would think that if we had made the progress that computers / software made in the auto / transportation industries, I could get from Seattle to Detroit using a ground-based option that would take 30 minutes, use far less energy than an airplane, and cost me less than $50 (these last things are just my wish-list, not based on scientific analysis). Anyway, I think we could have done better with transportation. And I think the computer / software industries have done a much better job at moving us forward closer to the speed of scientific research than the transportation industry has done. Anyone think my comparisons are way off the mark / unfair (I know many of you do  )? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5196 Registered: 08-2004 |
Good analogy Blackhelicopter.... but with all the plump American's out there, 1,000 times less space just won't cut it... | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 605 Registered: 05-2007 |
LOL Gistok. It is possible that human transportation could be improved if we were to become freed from our decades-old reliance on fossil-based fuels. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2027 Registered: 03-2006 |
I have had lots of problems with cars and computers. This an old bit, probably from the time of Windows 95. Microsoft is far from perfect but XP does not crash twice a day if at all... (Message edited by perfectgentleman on August 27, 2007) | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2740 Registered: 10-2003 |
Software and computers have already greatly increased the usability of Vehicles and produced great cost savings in the production of new vehicles. Computers began to make their way into cars in the late 70's. They were first used to help meet the then new EPA requirements. Many of those requirements couldn't be met without it's use. Many mechanical, hydraulic and pneumatic systems have now been converted over to computer controlled systems. Microsoft has been trying to get it's software into cars for at least 15 years. They have been trying to pry there way into the operating systems of vehicles. Their primary offering for the auto industry has been based on a product called windows CE. I've been involved in 4 evaluations of that enviroment over the last 20 years. Microsoft cannot build software that meets the US automanufacturers in-Vehicle requirements. It is too large, too buggy and far too resource intensive to be put into cars. It just doesn't meet the autoindustries requirements for reliability. The only place Microsoft has had any vehicle market penetration is in the radio/Navigation Infotainment areas. Microsoft has a Detroit office whose only purpose is to get some traction in the auto industry. The US auto industry employs a huge base of software developers around the world. The average mid priced Vehicle has approximately 15 computers in it. All those computers need software. They all communicate over various busses within the vehicle. Most vehicles have at least three separate communication networks. One for engine, transmission and safety critical control systems. One for body operations. (lights, door locks, windshield wipers, radio...)There is also a diagnostic communication bus that allows the connection to outside test equipment. Many Vehicles are now added a 4th infotainmnent network to support Navigation, DVD, radio and satellite TV/Radio. A modern engine controller uses a version of the powerPC chip. It is a modified version of the processor used in the Mac before they went Intel. It alone has more computing power than the computer you currently have on your desk. Until you can come up with a virtual software wheel to replace a real wheel, the comparison between computer industry cost reductions and Car cost reductions is absurd. In the car world you still have to buy wheels and enough steel to enclose an occupant. The computer world has no restricions on the minimum physical size of the product. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2036 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: How dare they employ jobs overseas. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 356 Registered: 06-2007 |
Speaking of Windows, I put together a new computer a month ago & installed Vista's 64-bit version on it. It has it's up sides & downsides to the new OS. Not alot of programs are compatible with it yet, especially since I have the 64-bit version. But ive experienced many problems some with some games I play on my PC, such as Battlefield 2142, and some programs I use Nero DVD/CD burner program. Nero won't let me install a patch for it that will let me burn WMA to CD so I can listen to some tunes in my car. XP is stable compared to Vistas, Microsoft is releasing a service pack this fall for it. Hopefully it will fix alot of issue's it's been having. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1432 Registered: 12-2006 |
Ironically Vetal, the Ring of Death just happened to my friend and me in Korea. I had to bring the Xbox back, send it off to support, get it back, and send it off to his friend's mom. Ugh. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 358 Registered: 06-2007 |
The Ring of Fire, that stinks. Hopefully they will send you back a 360 with the new processor that supposedly doesn't have that issue. I was in a department store looking at a 360 with the ring of fire flashing at me. I started to laugh and people looked at me funny, I guess no one knew about that problem plus the people who worked at that store. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5197 Registered: 08-2004 |
PG, you are correct Windows will no longer crash like it used to. Now we get a polite message that states "Windows has experienced a problem and needs to close!"  (Message edited by Gistok on August 27, 2007) | ||
Ericdetfan Member Username: Ericdetfan Post Number: 144 Registered: 02-2007 |
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Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1434 Registered: 12-2006 |
^LOL | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 607 Registered: 05-2007 |
Up until the very early 80s, I could grab a Chilton's manual, tools, and a pop and work on my own car to fix many of the problems. Tune-ups and oil changes were do-it-yourself for the people I knew. Regarding the MS XBox 360, when I got the ROD, I resisted the temptation to use the following (self) remedy floating around on the internet: (1) remove hard-drive and all cables and cords from the XBox 360 console, except the AC Power Supply (2) tightly wrap the XBox 360 console in 3 large bath towels (3) power on the XBox 360 console (4) let the XBox 360 console run and heat up for 20 minutes - this is "so the juices can reset the box" (3) power off the XBox 360 console (5) now, remove the bath towels and let the XBox 360 console cool for 25 minutes (6) re-attach the hard-drive and all cables and cords for the XBox 360 console (7) power on the XBox 360 console and it will now function properly for 5 days According to the instructions, this procedure will fix the ROD problem for exactly 5 days only. After 5 days, repeat the procedure for another 5 day fix. Last week we finally received a refurbished XBox 360 in place of our original that got the ROD late July. We had to ship it 3-day UPS to a Service Center in Texas. It seems OK so far without any problems to report. A standard letter of apology came with the refurbished unit.   | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2745 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Tune up? what's a tune-up? I haven't done a tuneup on my any of my cars since the early 80's. You no longer have to gap the points, plugs or set the timing. You don't need to mess with the damn carb float and needles. I don't need to spray cleaner on the damn choke linkages to get the car to start in the winter. I haven't needed a can of starter fluid rattling around in the trunk in years. You just change the oil on a regular basis. And I don't need to do that every 3000 miles anymore. Now it's at least 7500 miles between oil changes. Some vehicles can go 12,000 miles between oil changes if they have oil life meters. You only need to change the plugs at 75,000 miles, If you car has platinum plugs. There is no way I would go back to the crappy vehicles of the 70's. They needed constant care and pampering to keep them on the road. Even with the huge increase in the number of vehicles there are far fewer mechanics in business. Why? The vehicles today are far superior to anything ever put on the road. They don't break near as often or require the constant tinkering. The percentage of vehicles scrapped every year continues to decline as Vehicle lifespans continue to increase. I haven't needed to buy a Chiltons for a vehicle since I sold my POS 78 pinto. New cars rarely need service on the order of magnitude those vehicles you remember with such love need. | ||
Ericdetfan Member Username: Ericdetfan Post Number: 145 Registered: 02-2007 |
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Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 608 Registered: 05-2007 |
Ndavies, "Tune up? what's a tune-up?" That is a good one. I too experienced the same situations you referred to ("gap the points, plugs or set the timing", "carb float and needles", "spray cleaner on the damn choke linkages...", and "can of starter fluid rattling around in the trunk"). I had a 1974 Ford Pinto and then later a Mustang (Pony), and being a "poor" teenager, I did all the repairs, which were many. On the Pinto, I replaced the crank and cam shafts, rebuilt the head, and repaired or replaced several other parts. A machine shop re-bored the head for me. I had the chance to work on some exciting cars too. I helped my father work on his Mustangs, a 1965 and a 1966. And I assisted a family friend working on his Canary-Bird Yellow Pantera. Now that was exciting! For me, it was fun tinkering on cars in the driveway, and there was a sense of independence. The scrapped knuckles, dirty fingernails, and oil and grease everywhere did make for a mess. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2746 Registered: 10-2003 |
You need to go talk to the tuners. Just because the current auto technology is foreign to you, doesn't mean it is to the kids. It's much simpler to modify a modern car with all the bolt on parts and advance engine calibrations available today. And the car remains in on the road longer after the changes are made. A car is meant to be driven. Not stuck in a garage waiting for you to figure out what's wrong. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3060 Registered: 12-2005 |
Ndavies wrote: quote:Today's aircraft are filled with computers too. The rigor of the software testing alone there is mind boggling. It all has to be tested to the satisfaction of an FAA auditor with proof that all instructions and branches were exercised. It does get done but I don't think Microsoft could handle it, although they did make one heck of a flight simulator! quote:It is very much like comparing apples and oranges. I vaguely recall an attempt in the 70s(?) to replace steering wheels with joysticks. The idea was nixed because the steering wheel provided some additional driver restraint during a collision. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 609 Registered: 05-2007 |
Technological advancements in the automobile are welcome. I've observed "the Tuners" connect an automobile to a computer and use the diagnostics to trouble-shoot all manner of problems quickly and accurately. That is using technology well. The dynamics of servicing and repairing certain aspects of an automobile have changed. There are exceptions, but generally speaking, automobile service and repair has drifted toward a more service-based paradigm. Most people probably prefer it this way, as it is convenient and economical. An appreciation for working with one's hands is near art-form to some. Relative independence and self-sufficiency are lessons that can be learned early on in life, in part from doing work by oneself. Some live by a rule of not paying someone else if it can be done by oneself. Yes, there are many other ways to learn lessons on independence. When convenient, I still do some repairs and service on my own, especially when I can save money or time. I don't want to pay parts and labor if I can do it myself. And sometimes I can fix the part myself rather than replace it (cha-ching). This goes for automobiles, appliances, home repairs, and of course the PC. I'm not going to pay a technician to re-install software, install RAM, make minor firmware changes, back-up data, or a install a hard drive or DVD player. Just a few days ago an in-expensive mouse on my PC stopped working. Within 5 minutes I had opened the mouse, cleaned it, and refastened the vertical roller that had come loose. I saved myself a few dollars and avoided a trip to Best Buy or a local PC store. | ||
Ericdetfan Member Username: Ericdetfan Post Number: 151 Registered: 02-2007 |
I build my own computer for home use, that way I know exactly whats in it and I rarely have problems with it..I try to urge others to do the same, but some ppl just don't have the experience to do this. | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 600 Registered: 07-2004 |
www.syncmyride.com Coming soon to a Ford vehicle near you... | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 659 Registered: 05-2007 |
I'm beyond upset this afternoon. My Microsoft XBox 360 has the "Ring of Death" again (2nd time)! | ||
Ericdetfan Member Username: Ericdetfan Post Number: 153 Registered: 02-2007 |
wow | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 664 Registered: 05-2007 |
Maybe to fix the XBox this time, I'll try the self-remedy I referred to in my [Monday, August 27, 2007 - 4:17 pm] post! I don't like the fact that I was provided a refurbished XBox unit . How ironic. I would love to fix this XBox myself. I lack the knowledge, plus I'd lose the Bill Gates warranty. I must say I was glad the XBox Customer Service person spoke English last time. He was not a MS employee, and he explained to me that his employer contracted his department out to MS. And the company doing the XBox 360 repairs is yet another contracter. (Message edited by vetalalumni on September 03, 2007) |
