 
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1916
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 4:45 pm: |    |
quote:The old Fort Wayne (or American) Hotel next door to the Masonic needs to be razed. That rotting eyesore (unremarkable architecturally, and stripped of its terra-cotta ornamentation years ago) crowds the Masonic and blocks the sightline from Cass Avenue.
I couldn't agree less.
City's don't have sightlines of 16 storey buildings.
That building is a prime candidate to rehabilitation.
Seems like this might be a spot for an arena:
http://maps.live.com/default.a spx?v=2&cp=r1pvy282b53y&style= o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-10 00&scene=3778834&encType=1 |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2092
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 4:54 pm: | |
"That building is a prime candidate to rehabilitation."
Rehabbed into what? Apartments? Lofts? Both of those markets have already been overbuilt in Detroit.
Tear that ____ down. |
Chow
Member
Username: Chow
Post Number: 408
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 6:30 pm: | |
The people working on the American, however intermittently, claim to be renovating it.
I say keep it standing. It has good massing in relation to the Masonic. Moreover, tear it down for what? Another empty lot? I would say to you that the market for empty lots has been completely overbuilt in this area and others. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5216
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 6:49 pm: | |
If you use Jsmyers mapslive site, you can zoom over to the west side of Cass Park to see the former Kresge HQ. Although it is a side view, the facade at the bottom of the picture gives you an indication of what the main facade looks like. It is a very attractive building.
Ironically, I remember driving around the former Kresge HQ about 20 years ago. On the NW corner of the parking lot behind the building there once stood a house (now replaced with grass). It looks like back in the 1930's someone didn't want to sell! |
Bumble
Member
Username: Bumble
Post Number: 328
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:19 pm: | |
Actually, that parking lot used to be residential, and there were apartment buildings to the back of the HQ for a long time after it was built, so the house fit right into the neighborhood.
The HQ was built with underground parking which was a kind of novelty at the time.
It's easy to lose sight of the fact that all those empty lots and parking lots once had buildings on them. Detroit used to be a thriving, functioning city. |
Waz
Member
Username: Waz
Post Number: 183
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:27 pm: | |
Bumble, I know. Ookpiks fantabulous pictures, especially the last installment (LVI), confirmed that to me in spades! |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4853
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:45 pm: | |
So, what's in the former Kresge HQ now? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5222
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 9:59 pm: | |
Thanks for the explanation Bumble, when I drove by 20 years ago there was then only 1 house left at that time. It seemed odd to see that.
I thought that some business "incubation" center or technology center was in the former Kresge HQ. But I haven't heard much about it in recent years, and that begs the question of what is there now... |
Gps
Member
Username: Gps
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 10:04 pm: | |
Do you people realize that the Masonic is still in use by Masons and that this deal is designed to save the building so that Masons can use it while Illitch Holdings manages the revenue generating theaters?
Why are you talking about tearing down a building that is not a ruin?
I think this will be a location for businesses to operate near the stadium, which will probably be built where abandoned buildings currently stand. I wish I could get in on this deal! The Masons will no doubt do everything they can to save their largest temple in the world! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5223
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 10:13 pm: | |
Gps, I agree, if one thing can be said about the Masons, they did a decent job of maintaining this property.
This building is so solid and built to last, that it would probably cost as much as Hudson's to tear down.
During one of the building tours we got to see the unfinished theatre up on the 7th floor (14th floor if you include mezzanine floors). It even had a balcony, and would likely have seated 700-1000, had it ever been finished. |
Gps
Member
Username: Gps
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 10:56 pm: | |
Gistok,
I've been up there and have been around the mezzanine floors. I don't think most people realize how much great architecture is in that building! After all, it was built by the Freemasons! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5225
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 11:50 pm: | |
What is so astonishing about this building is the worldwide variety of styles. Everything from Gothic (exterior and Scottish Rite Theatre) to Venetian Gothic (Masonic Theatre) to Egyptian, Romanesque, Greco-Roman, Neoclassic, etc. And each of the lodges are a vast suites of spaces centered around the specific architectural styles.
And most people are unaware that the Detroit Auto show used to be held up in the Drill Hall above the Masonic Theatre back in the post WWII era. They used to have a crane to hoist the cars up in thru the Drill Hall windows (and back down later).
It's just a magnificent massive labarynthine structure of 1,038 rooms. |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4091
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 2:51 am: | |
Tis a fact that Nederlander Detroit's tenure at Masonic is finished and their Detroit director [and my kind friend Alan Lichtenstein] will be moving his office of nearly 30 years to the Fisher. |
Detourdetroit
Member
Username: Detourdetroit
Post Number: 333
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 8:31 am: | |
Fury, your words hurt!!! Remember, BC was pretty gnarly too. Cities are made of streetwalls! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5228
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 1:01 pm: | |
Masonic isn't even in gnarly condition. It has been well maintained. Fury13 have you ever been on a tour of all the lodges and public rooms of the Masonic... if not it's high time you went!  |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2106
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 1:44 pm: | |
Gistok (and others), please re-read my posts above. I am in NO WAY advocating the razing of the fabulous Masonic Temple. It is a work of art.
No, I want to see the ugly, filthy, defaced, rotting American (Fort Wayne) Hotel next door go. With that lot clear, the Masonic would really stand out, like the jewel that it is. |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 359
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 1:46 pm: | |
The Detroit News posted a "Tour" of the auditorium and one of the lodges.
(Message edited by leland_palmer on August 29, 2007) |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5232
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 3:20 pm: | |
Thanks for the clarification Fury, I knew that with all the good things that you said about the Moose, that it didn't make sense for you to want them to tear down the Masonic! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5233
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 3:26 pm: | |
Just as a tip Leland (and others), when you post about another site, make it an external link. With the Detroit News tour link within the Detroit Yes frame, it messes up other links within the forum. After visiting that site (within the DY frame), if I click on DISCUSS DETROIT, it opens a whole new external window, instead of taking me back to the thread listing! 
(Message edited by Gistok on August 29, 2007) |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4854
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 3:57 pm: | |
Just checked out the American Hotel today...better to rehab than to take down. It looks like it can be rehabbed and seems to be quite large. Is it ideal for lofts? |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2114
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:24 pm: | |
"Is it ideal for lofts?"
Probably. But who would buy/rent them? And would it make sense to pour money into redeveloping such a property when there are scores of existing lofts/condos in the city sitting vacant, unsold and/or unrented?
Bulletin: The economy is bad and the housing market is as soft as a pillow. Detroit is not going to be repopulated any time soon, folks. |
Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj
Post Number: 384
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:44 pm: | |
Fury13, where are your numbers to back your claims? Just can't help yourself from spewing B.S.? |
Bumble
Member
Username: Bumble
Post Number: 331
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:06 pm: | |
quote:Bulletin: The economy is bad and the housing market is as soft as a pillow. Detroit is not going to be repopulated any time soon, folks.
The rental market is actually fairly strong. That is to say, demand is high. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1546
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 8:02 pm: | |
How much would it take to finish that unfinished auditorium in the Masonic? Or if there are even any plans to do anything with it? |
Treble484
Member
Username: Treble484
Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 8:42 pm: | |
The view of downtown is splendid from the roof gardens atop the Masonic. Ilitch could do a great deal of upgrades to the Masonic This is a win win for both Ilitch and the Masons. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5237
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:22 pm: | |
Bob that is a good question. I often wondered about what it would take to finish that top floor auditorium.
And I have come to the conclusion that it will likely never be a performance space, most likely due to Fire Marshall constraints. To have nearly 1,000 people that high up in the building may require outdoor fire escapes. At such a dizzying height it would likely be an expensive proposition.
And with a 4,404 and 1,585 seat theatre venues already in the building (as well as 2 huge ballrooms), it more than likely would not be needed. It has been unfinished for 80 years.
But it is interesting to speculate! |
Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522
Post Number: 274
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 12:49 pm: | |
But speculating is what this forum does best!!! |
Treble484
Member
Username: Treble484
Post Number: 29
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 2:04 pm: | |
Imagine, at a table under an umbrella on a nice summer evenings out on the roof gardens with lite dinner and cocktail before a show. Gazing at the Detroit skyline. Makes for nice evening out |
Cushkid
Member
Username: Cushkid
Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 4:10 pm: | |
Where did the Detroit News pluck that twelve year old from who narrated the video. OUCH!!! |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4863
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 4:28 pm: | |
How much would it take to complete the unfinished pool inside the Temple? |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 360
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 6:16 pm: | |
buildingsofdetroit.com? LOL |
Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn
Post Number: 1859
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 7:47 pm: | |
quote:And I have come to the conclusion that it will likely never be a performance space, most likely due to Fire Marshall constraints. To have nearly 1,000 people that high up in the building may require outdoor fire escapes. At such a dizzying height it would likely be an expensive proposition.
G... not sure that's the case. Office buildings have more people above that height. It's more likely the fire marshal would up the fire protection system requirements for the entire building, but that could be expensive un it's own right. Anyone know if the building is currently sprinkled (fully or partially)? |
Fishtoes2000
Member
Username: Fishtoes2000
Post Number: 273
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 8:44 pm: | |
quote:How much would it take to complete the unfinished pool inside the Temple?
During our Temple Tour we learned that the uninstalled marble for the pool had disappeared over the years. |
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 42
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 1:48 am: | |
does anybody in detroit even rent out "raw" lofts anymore? They use to be massive in size and outrageously cheap. Until a larger redevelopment loan for these properties comes along, renting the American and Cass Tech out as "raw" units would preserve them from scrappers. Raw lofts use to come in the form of a completely empty space with utility connections, a tenent would then build and install their own furnishings. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 887
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 3:46 am: | |
But who would buy/rent them? And would it make sense to pour money into redeveloping such a property when there are scores of existing lofts/condos in the city sitting vacant, unsold and/or unrented?
Weeeeeell, if a new hockey arena goes up nearby, I imagine Wingnuts would. Columbus, Ohio, is a perfect example of this. There are condos or lofts (not sure which) attached to the arena, as well as shopping and restaurants.
buildingsofdetroit.com? LOL
Leland, I can't tell if you're insanely jealous or insanely jerky. |
Traveler357
Member
Username: Traveler357
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 8:17 pm: | |
DMT has no sprinklers, but was state of the art (in 1926) re fire resistant materials and design.
Bringing the Temple up to Code would be prohibitively costly under present conditions, which is why the Detroit Masonic Temple Association would retain ownership under the contemplated operating agreement. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 1593
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 1:25 am: | |
"does anybody in detroit even rent out "raw" lofts anymore?"
Iron Street Lofts might be pretty close. They do have kitchens though and bathrooms... |
Flybydon
Member
Username: Flybydon
Post Number: 168
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 11:18 am: | |
This is one Detroit building that should be saved.
It’s under appreciated architecture could never be duplicated, notwithstanding the fact that the Temple is an international land mark.
I for one take my hat off to Mr. Ilitch for stepping forward and attempting to assist in its rehabilitation.
|
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