  Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 901 Registered: 10-2006 |
A proposal to extend term limits for lawmakers to 12 years could be on the ballot at the same time Michigan voters choose their presidential favorite early next year. The proposal being backed by the Michigan Chamber of Commerce would let lawmakers serve a total of 12 years in either the House or Senate or a combination of 12 years in both chambers. LaBrant said the measure also would ban lawmakers from becoming lobbyists for at least two years after they leave office; require lawmakers to disclose their financial holdings; dock the pay of lawmakers for each day they have an unexcused absence; and require public hearings on tax proposals. wdiv.com | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1557 Registered: 10-2006 |
So, what are the plusses and minuses then? | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 162 Registered: 05-2006 |
How about putting pay cuts on the ballet? This is the second highest paid legislature in the USA. Two terms, and you have a pension for life? Then this is the same crew of Republicans demanding fiscal responsibility, as long as it does not affect their party at the public trough, while everybody else in the sate needs to take a cut. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1560 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well I was thinking along the lines of, how about a part-time legislature like most of the country?!?! | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2940 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's been my observation that in politics, you don't get something for nothing. Something big, or in this case really big, has been promised to the CoC to get their support...something that has yet to be released. As for expanding term limits, just look at our representation in Washington to see how well we're treated. We're ignored by our "representatives" when it comes to getting back anything close to what we send to DC. We get the silent treatment when it comes to defend ourselves against ridiculous CAFE standards. And apparently, no one cares about the billions that are wasted in the Middle East money pit (a.k.a. Iraq). Do we really want that kind of "representation" from Lansing? At least with term limits, they realize that they'll have to perform. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 903 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'm with you Cinder! The good part of this legislation is that it has term limits and bans politicians from becoming a lobbyist for 2 years. It also has a "no show, no pay" clause. If you don't show up to work, you don't get a check. You know, kinda like the rest of the world. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 274 Registered: 06-2005 |
One big plus is we'd have a more experienced, knowledgeable legislature. At the current turnover rate, legislators get booted from an office just as they start to gain the needed experience. Another negative is it's very difficult for grassroot organizations to constantly educate new legislators on the issues. The bigger organizations have the paid lobbyists to handle that. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 908 Registered: 10-2006 |
No more retirement pensions for legislators. That ought to do something to improve our budget. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 78 Registered: 05-2007 |
"..LaBrant said the measure also would ban lawmakers from becoming lobbyists for at least two years after they leave office; require lawmakers to disclose their financial holdings; dock the pay of lawmakers for each day they have an unexcused absence; and require public hearings on tax proposals. " ---------------------- So who is enforcing these policies if enacted? we all know legislature has a less than stellar record when policing themselves. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4551 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually finding new revenue sources would probably do more to improve our budget than cutting legislators pensions. Wayne State just raised tuition by 16% to make up for cuts in state aid. You aren't going to find all of that money in the state legislator pension fund. Once again Michigan culture of ignorance rules the day. Symbolic stick-it-to-the-man ideas like cutting legislator pensions capture the imagination but no one wants to talk about actual - hard - solutions to our state's budget crisis. Even conservative supply-siders like Bruce Bartlett have begun arguing that state governments need to find new revenue sources or they will end up like Countrywide. Actually I'd argue Countrywide and the other subprimes are in a better financial position than the government of the state of Michigan. Here is a crazy thought. Rather than bitching about legislator pensions, why not elect politicians whose policies and actions match their rhetoric. Research universities in cool cities don't have to raise tuition 16% (the second 10%+ tuition increase in four years) in order to stay afloat. “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” - H.L. Mencken It's unfortunate that decent people are in the minority in the state of Michigan. | ||
Crash67 Member Username: Crash67 Post Number: 30 Registered: 05-2007 |
Term limits in general are a bad idea ... I have never been for them because all they do is give power to the people we DO NOT elect -- the bureaucrats who shift from staff to staff depending on who's in or out. This particular proposal rectifies some of the issues (i.e., lobbying, etc.), but I still wouldn't support it. We have the ability to enforce our own term limits on any elected official -- it's called use your right to vote, inform yourself on the issues, and vote the incumbents out if they are no longer worthy! | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 275 Registered: 06-2005 |
quote: Anyone who does more than a minimal amount of lobbying in Lansing must register with the state. This rule shouldn't be too difficult to enforce. Still, I'm not sure how valuable this is. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 910 Registered: 10-2006 |
Jelk, when you get off of your self-imposed sense of importance, you will realize that in no way, shape or form did I imply that my tongue-in-cheek comment would FIX the budget. The topic of this thread is TERM LIMITS and other sources of accountability for legislators, NOT solutions for our budget problems. It would really help forum discussions if people would simply READ THE D@MN POSTS. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4552 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: quote: Moderator please move this to the Contradictions thread on the other site. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1570 Registered: 10-2006 |
POINT OF INFORMATION: Improving something does not necessarily mean that it is fixed Jelk... | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4553 Registered: 10-2003 |
POINT OF INFORMATION: Assuming I accept your separate and different definitions for "fix" and "improve" (which I don't) cutting legislator pensions would neither improve nor fix the state's budget. MORE TO THE POINT: I never accused Yvette of suggesting cutting legislator pensions would permanently fix the state's perpetual budget crisis. I only said it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference (i.e. not improve the budget). LASTLY: According to Websters "fix" means, in this context, to repair or mend; to set in order and adjust. "Improve" means to enhance in value or quality : make better. Essentially they do mean the same thing. Moderator please move Charlottepaul's post to the IDKFTIKPOOOA thread on the other site. (Message edited by jelk on August 31, 2007) | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 84 Registered: 05-2007 |
How about a Pay Per View boxing match featuring a few of our posters..... | ||
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2006 |
quote: "We have the ability to enforce our own term limits on any elected official -- it's called use your right to vote, inform yourself on the issues, and vote the incumbents out if they are no longer worthy!" Really? Gerrymandering districts virtually guarantee incumbents of re-election leaving us with term limits as the only guaranteed way to bounce them out of office......NO CAREER POLITICIANS! ...we now return you to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress..... | ||
Marcnbyr Member Username: Marcnbyr Post Number: 681 Registered: 10-2003 |
Term limits never do what their proponents want/claim they will do. If anyone wants any proof of this, all they have to do is read this book, or just take the author's "Michigan Politics" class at Wayne State. While the intention of term limits is to eliminate career politicians...what they really end up doing is encouraging exactly that. The candidate knows they only have a limited time in office, so they are more likely to use it as a stepping stone to a higher office as opposed to genuinely trying to serve the public good. Term limits also increase the ignorance of the Legislature as a whole, requiring them to depend HEAVILY on the lobbyists for information on this issues; while also increasing the power of the governors office. I don't see how extending the limit to 12 total years would really help at all...I think the state would be better served either eliminating term limits all together or moving to a part-time legislature. Ideally both would happen, but I know better than that. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 61 Registered: 07-2007 |
Cut the: Political Pigs at the Trough's Dole, (Latin for gov't handout) to the bone. They cause more problems in the state than good. They suck more money from contributions to run their stupid worthless campaing ads, where money could be spent on helping people in real need. Media companies are the only ones who benefit from all this smear ad campaining. Keep limits as they are AND Stop all tax sucking benefits when they leave office. These people do not deserve anything more than anyone else working at any other company, (which is usually nilch) They are leeches and self serving slim who deserve nothing more than a thank you for doing what every normal citizen should do out of service to others. Why do voters treat these altruistic slims like gods? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1580 Registered: 10-2006 |
Whoa, slow down there Jelk. If I donated $5 to the State of Michigan I would be improving the budget, but it would be far from a fix! | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4554 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No your $5 wouldn't improve the state budget in any size, shape, or form. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 924 Registered: 10-2003 |
A couple quick points.... ....I thought we had term limits. They're called elections and take place at regular intervals. You don't like the bastard, vote him out. The only thing term limits do is protect us from ourselves. If the voters want to be stupid and elect the same jerk election after election, they get what they deserve. Legislators in Michigan get almost $80,000 per, right? Assuming this is their only job--it would be difficult to hold down a job when you're not available to work large chunks of the time--this seems resonable. Do legislators get a per-diem or do they have to provide their own housing in Lansing? Oh, the median income for states with full time legislatures is about $58k a year. We have the reverse here in Washington. We have a "part time" legislature, but with hearings, committee meetings and etc., it is figured the state senate and house work about 70% of the year for a rousing $32,100 per, although they get (I believe) $50 a day when the legislature is in session. You show me a person that can keep a household in his district AND a place to stay at the capitol in Olympia on $32.100 and you're showing me someone who can run a household budget a hell of a lot tighter than my wife can. (Message edited by douglasm on September 01, 2007) (Message edited by douglasm on September 01, 2007) |
