 
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4854
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 2:41 pm: |    |
I agree OG, as a Black man I deal with all kinds of issues like that from other Black people who just happened to be in positions of (perceived or real) authority or power. So no, I don't believe that it is a racial thing when dealing with the city government... |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 628
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 3:48 pm: | |
Monahan568, don't let that type of experience dissuade you. Take the high road and demonstrate the correct way to conduct business. And sometimes when people notice that their poor attitude is not discouraging you, they straighten up. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6426
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 4:56 pm: | |
Most city workers at the City/County Building are either lousy, lazy or just playing prejudice. That is the way its going to be in Detroit until we get some diverse people to work there. |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 177
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 5:57 pm: | |
Reverse racism does exist...no doubt.
The experience I was talking with my buddy and I looking for a car was not an example of reverse racism. It was just funny to me because he was soooo uncomfortable.
I will say this about Black people in the inner cities. Though a white american may feel a little out of place and unwelcome, Black people, for the most part are not going to call the police on you just because you are in the neighborhood and nobody knows why. You might get a few "remarks" but at least the generation from the 80's would pretty much leave you alone.
Black people are much more used to "diversity" in anything than white people.
In a Black family there may be many shades of color, different hair textures, eye color and maybe even other features. Look at any black grandparents photos of their grandchildren and this is true.
In white households and neighborhoods this is not the case, in fact the old saying, "all of them look alike" actually applies more to white people than black people.
I hope I did not stray too far from the subject here.
Department of buildings here in New York can be a pain in ass to deal with...no matter what color you are. Customer service is shit in today's times anyway.
But I am not going to downplay Monahan568's experience. He probably did encounter some reverse racism and they were probably idiots too.
I have seen black people (you know the ones people say), "you are not like the rest of the black people" or, "you're different"...well I have seen them go through a type of racism from their own people depending on who they are dealing with too.
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on September 01, 2007) |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 12:05 am: | |
I was an employee of the COD for about three years. I think I was the only white person in our department. I can honestly say that I was treated rudely and unfairly almost everyday of my tenure there. I got the impression that my black coworkers had never interacted with white people before, and were very direct in some of the observations they made about me and my culture. I think the only thing they knew of white people were the negative things they read about white people in history books (slavery) and what they saw in the American Pie film series.
I’ve also done extensive courthouse research in downtown Detroit. The staff have always been consistently unfriendly and lazy. They forget that at that time they were employees of mine, as my tax dollars paid for their salaries. I got the same feeling while trying to do research that I got while working for the COD.
From my experience, I think my skin color had something to do with this.
Down here in Texas, which is 100% percent more diverse than Michigan, I’ve never get that feeling. I do my research down here and I’m waited on by whites, blacks, browns, every color under the sun, and I’ve never had the issues that I do in Detroit down here.
Needless to say, I don’t miss that feeling that I got while in Detroit. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 637
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 12:39 am: | |
What Detx describes is unacceptable in a work environment, and if verifiable, puts the employer at risk. Management should be aware of employee misconduct and not allow it to occur. The onus is on the offended to report, and on management to verify and address unethical behaviour. The offended party must not face retribution for reporting such incidents.
(Message edited by vetalalumni on September 02, 2007) |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 195
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 12:53 am: | |
Can't we all just get along? |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 22
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:01 am: | |
Miketoronto,
One time a friend and I were walking home from high school in Southwest Detroit. We’re both white and were never scared at all to walk the streets as SWD was our neighborhood.
Anyways, on the way home about five black guys ran out of this apartment and all of sudden just started throwing glass bottles at us. We ran like crazy and thankfully we weren’t hit. They were shouting things like, “Get the fuck out of here, white boys!” as we ran off.
Obviously, the entire incident was unprovoked and random. Regardless, we continued to walk home when we had to. We weren’t about to let some thugs dictate what we did in our neighborhood.
I’ve also been chased out with knifes, harassed, and had rocks thrown at me by Arabs in the West End neighborhood of Dearborn, which is located way down on West Vernor. There’s a great park over there called “Lapeer Park”, but I’d advise anyone who goes there to proceed cautiously.
I think someone should start a thread to document these kind of things that happen to whites in Detroit. I bet most posters would be surprised at the amount of violent natured discrimination that whites face in Detroit. Our voices deserved to be heard too. |
Jiscodazz
Member
Username: Jiscodazz
Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 1:02 am: | |
I'm a white male and have to say, when the city screwed up my homestead exemption(again) and I went downtown to fix it, the two women that helped me were really awesome. I'm not saying that's normal or abnormal.
In general, metro Detroit have a huge chip on their shoulder and pretty darn grumpy. Black and white. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 639
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:05 am: | |
Jiscodazz makes an interesting point regarding attitudes. Is there a prevailing cynicism in the Detroit metropolitan area? In recent times, have attitudes improved?
Detx, no one is stopping you from starting a thread on the experiences of Caucasians in Detroit. |
Bagman
Member
Username: Bagman
Post Number: 92
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:32 am: | |
As a business man in downtown I had more black customers than white ones. However ONLY blacks ever accused me of taking the money I made out to the suburbs. When I pointed out I lived at Third and Willis, many of these same Detroiters had no idea where that was, let alone that it was in the city. But I am sure it was my white skin that caused those thoughts.
I do know that when I cruised my neighborhood, driving slowly in my cadillac with blues playing on the radio, I got stopped many times until the cops got to know me and my habit of taking pictures of things in my neighborhood, like hookers and drug dealers........but yes I was stopped because it was 2am and I AM WHITE. The police will freely admit that they know why white people from the burbs are down here, to buy drugs or hookers.
Try it......pull up to one of the hookers and ask for directions to the freeway.....OK so that's what I do to the undercover cops that dress up as hookers and try to bait the fools into asking for a date........after the cops who are working the sting pull you over for just asking directions (yes this happened to me) they will warn you that they know why you are here and suggest you leave, unless like me you can turn the pages on them and whip out photo albums of all the hookers, street people, and even the undercover cops, my suggestion is to take their advise and get out.
As to the attitude of City workers, the work for the City of Detroit, what attitude do you expect them to have, just be happy that you no longer need to carry a duffel bag full of money in with you in order to get something done. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 641
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:41 am: | |
The duffel bag reference was funny Bagman. |
Crash_nyc
Member
Username: Crash_nyc
Post Number: 1002
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:04 am: | |
I think that anyone who has lived in & outside of Detroit will agree that this is not a Detroit-centric problem.
I've lived in both Detroit and NYC, and the problem stems not so much from race, but the simple fact that you're dealing with municipal & state workers who are often over-worked & underpaid.
Everything from getting filming permits, to the DMV, to getting your car out of the tow yard, it's all the same. I'm not saying they're all bad, as I've had some great experiences with very helpful, outgoing people on the other side of the counter, but more often than not, they're just grumpy and act like you're more of an inconvenience than anything else.
Whenever I get frustrated by someone moving at the speed of Frankenstein's monster in situations like that, I try to put myself in their shoes:
If I only made $25K/yr to work a shitty job like that, I probably wouldn't give a crap either. |
Michmeister
Member
Username: Michmeister
Post Number: 236
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:32 am: | |
Hey, folks, remember-just because you are paranoid, that doesn`t mean they are not out to get you  . |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 179
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:34 am: | |
Damn...listening tho these posts maybe it is much worse than I thought.
No wonder we have such a problem with each other.
These names should ring a bell to you Vetal
Dr. Raymond Ernatt, Mr. Walt Kizzel, Mrs. Ann Thompson. Miss Sandra Ritter, Mrs. Editha Barnes, Mr. Ernest Clark, Mrs. D. Somerville or Miss Kidd depending on when you were there. Miss Hull(used to date Mr. Clark by the way). Mr Brown (Gym teacher who used to play with the Harlem globetrotters).
That is all I can remember off the top of my head.... |
Granmontrules
Member
Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 153
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:21 am: | |
As always there appears to be a few enlightened Detroiters on here and some stupid dumbsh**s who blame black people for trying to get poor whitie. Well I am white and I have never had a problem here with my skin color. My wife and I feel more comfortable in our 80% african american neighborhood than we do in Troy or Livonia with all the big hair and racist attitudes - does any other Detroit hate it when you say you live in Detroit and the first thing THEY say is "is it safe". Give me a grumpy black city worker over a big haired, ignorant, fake tanned suburbanite any day! haha |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 245
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:37 am: | |
Granmont,
Glad to see a positive experience amidst what I think is primarily race-baiting.
So now we have a vigilant in the form of Bagman; what exactly are you doing cataloging hookers? Are you trying to help the police?
"The police will freely admit that they know why white people from the burbs are down here, to buy drugs or hookers."
To think that suburbanites "slum it" because they have no hookers or drugs in the 'burbs is naive at best. Plus who wouldn't want a big-haired, fake tanned, fake-boobed hooker? Oh wait, that excludes Eddie Murphy and Hugh Grant.... |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 643
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:42 am: | |
Kaptansolo, a few Vetal alumni are here on DYes. A DYes search on Vetal will return a few references. And there is a small archived thread on Peter Vetal Elementary School in the 1970's.
I do remember Dr. Raymond Ernatt, Mrs. Editha Barnes, and Miss Hull. |
Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 1648
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:44 am: | |
quote:Dr. Raymond Ernatt, Mr. Walt Kizzel, Mrs. Ann Thompson. Miss Sandra Ritter, Mrs. Editha Barnes, Mr. Ernest Clark, Mrs. D. Somerville or Miss Kidd depending on when you were there. Miss Hull(used to date Mr. Clark by the way). Mr Brown (Gym teacher who used to play with the Harlem globetrotters).
I'm know I'm not Vetal, but some of those names sound familiar. Can you help me ring a bell, Kaptansolo?
Thanks. |
Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 1649
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 9:47 am: | |
Vetal's post cleared it up for me.
I assume they were all teachers/admins at Vetal Elementary school.
Thanks. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 9962
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:54 pm: | |
quote:The duffel bag reference was funny Bagman.
Yeah, but the whole thing basically eliminated the retail duffel bag market in downtown, Bagman can tell the rest of that story. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 9963
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:55 pm: | |
(good to see you around again, Bagman) |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 183
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 2:56 pm: | |
thanks for hipping me to the Peter Vetal post...interesting.
I still have not figured out who "Peter Vetal" was. Was he some prominent figure in Detroit? Whenever I google the name...only the school itself comes up and it apparently is the only school in the country named after him. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 655
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:12 pm: | |
Don't know much about Peter Vetal the man. There was a post a few weeks back where this question came up. It was mentioned that several decades ago there was a landowner named Vetal in that area. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6443
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:23 pm: | |
Detx,
You quote that anyways, on the way home about five black guys ran out of this apartment and all of sudden just started throwing glass bottles at us. We ran like crazy and thankfully we weren’t hit. They were shouting things like, “Get the fuck out of here, white boys!” as we ran off.
I SAY
Since Detroit is now the culture of black ideology. You may have to get used to it. You might probably ran into some of young black CLOWNS and other crazy folks here and there even in SWD. But you have to very careful when you encounter them in the ghettos of Detroit. It's just the way it is just as the black folks walking through a Warren neighborhood not knowing when they could get beat up, yelled at by white neighbor or racially profiled by a white Warren police officer.
I’ve also been chased out with knifes, harassed, and had rocks thrown at me by Arabs in the West End neighborhood of Dearborn, which is located way down on West Vernor. There’s a great park over there called “Lapeer Park”, but I’d advise anyone who goes there to proceed cautiously.
I SAY
That's funny I go through that park sometimes I didn't get beat up or threaten with a knife. You who have been recognized by the color of your skin have been a victim ethnic backlash just like other people of color have been blacklashed in most ethnically diverse New York City neighborhoods. Those Arabs in Dearborn's West End want to protect their community at ALL costs. They don't want you to even mess with their women rather you are black, white and other. I go into any ethnically diverse communities and some people will or will not welcome you. It's all part of human nature. So go forth at your own risk. |
Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 911
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 3:41 pm: | |
Monahan, try being a black man in Macomb County! |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4857
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 4:45 pm: | |
*Standing O* |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 133
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 9:08 am: | |
"Monahan, try being a black man in Macomb County!"
This is an interesting opinion. I actually felt a bit out of place there! I stopped at a gas station in Mt. Clemens a few months back to buy something to drink.Many of the people in the adjacent neighborhood were black, as were most of the customers.It had been a long time since I had gone to a store clearly as a minority in the neighborhood.I assumed I probably stood out a little bit.I saw things from a different perspective.
Ive heard allegations of The Roseville Police pestering blacks, which gave the impression of racism. I talked to a black man once who said he got questioned by them as he was changing a flat tire in a parking lot, HOWEVER, the police then went on to pester some white guys so he knew it wasn't racial.Theyre just ticket-zealous and opportunities come in all shades.
New Haven also has had a sizable black population for decades-much more than most other Michigan villages of the same size.I believe blacks have held roles in city government.
I don't want to discount your opinion, but I am curious to know what has helped influence it |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1997
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 9:18 am: | |
"Monahan, try being a black man in Macomb County!"
Yes, because the existence of racism in Macomb county justifies black people in Detroit being racist against ALL white people who try to live among them...
Black Detroiters: "We want integration now!"
Black Detroiters: "Detroit is OUR city! Go back to the suburbs!"
Just because racism is inherently ignorant doesn't mean you can only fight it with ignorance of your own... |
Goldensunshine
Member
Username: Goldensunshine
Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 12:53 pm: | |
Don't feel bad . . .anytime I deal with any city services over the phone or in person, I feel kind of how you described.
You hardly get cordial service, and a kind word . . .let alone a sense of urgency!
I usually find myself muttering " . . .hmmmph! There's my tax dollars at work . . ."
. . .and I am black, so I'm not sure I can say its a race thing, but who knows, I can't speak to anyone else's experience. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 1044
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 2:44 pm: | |
You know the old saying- Civil Servants are neither |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 320
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 4:33 pm: | |
Unbelievable that a white person's sense of experiencing discrimination is dismissed as race-baiting.
As a long-time City resident (now former) I maintain that there is a bitter vein of racism present in black Detroit. There is no doubt that the worst experienced by a put-upon black in Oakland or Macomb or other hell du jour is equalled by the experiences of some whites at the hands of blacks in Detroit. To those who claim long years and never even an uncomfortable word I invite you to attempt to live peacefully in my former neighborhood, west of Evergreen and north of Fenkell. Try one summer and then report back on the universal love exuded by the City.
But to address the question that launched this thread... differentiating between general a**holes, worthless civil servants, and blacks out to get the white person can be difficult. Most of my black neighbors simply ignored me (and one another - kind of sounds like the so-called "fake" suburbs, eh?), but a thin margin hated me (ONLY white household on the block). Happily, the haters were outnumbered by good people who ranged from nodding acquaintances to true friends.
To abdicate expectations for civil coexistence to past sins is to condemn "us" to the same traps of the old world. Our collective past has many painful elements, but if our solution is bear active grudges until the end of time then we may as well just draw our knives and get this over with.
I feel that for a long time the white community has been doing an admirable job of cleansing itself of counterproductive thoughts and behaviors. Black Detroit/America must also act to purge its ranks of the same elements. Failure on the part of either community means a permanent state with a thousand small wars simmering and waiting for a boiling point. |
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